the victoids' *ministry(?)*

[excathedra]

i was only shocked by him and i was the "counselee" -- is that a word?

No difference between VP, you, and me. This is supposed to be GOOD news.

that wasn't very nice to say

[skyrider]

[i noticed some time back that vpw's summary led to

"DO AS YOU FOOL WELL PLEASE."

That was vpw's standard. That was vpw's goal.

That was what vpw said in conclusion, too.

He claimed that the LAW had been boiled down to two rules,

then discarded both.

He said it was all subsumed in "Love God, and love your neighbor as yourself."

He then said that "if you love God, and love your neighbor as yourself,

then you can do as you fool well please."

Wierwille was a cherry-picker.....

He picked a scripture here and there......but no substance on the two great commandments on love. Figures. Wierwille would side-step this and look for the lazy way out.

If there was such a thing as cherry-drambuie.....wierwille could be in line.

[Ham]

then you can do as you fool well please."

then, he was by his own words, a fool.

[Ham]

Do whatever you want, as long as your intentions are good. Where have I heard that before..

[waysider]

Do whatever you want, as long as your intentions are good. Where have I heard that before..

Well, actually, he never said your intentions had to be "good". He only said they ought to lead to whatever it was that would please you. -----Screw the other guy, as long as I get whatever I want.

"Do what you like, as long as you like what you do"----VP Wierwille

Edited March 3, 2011 by waysider

[Ham]

Crowley was less harmful..

at least he considered the consequences..

not that it did much good. But he considered..

vs.. "I have the righteousness of Christ, of Gawd Almighty. I can merely do as *I* will..

we're all the same, eh?

why not for one honest moment.. act like it..

[Ham]

I dunno. ascribing to "we* does not exactly kill you..

[So_crates]

Crowley, didn't he say, Do as thou will, but do no harm?

Which, of course, brings up another subject. Crowley was into sexual magick. You think Saint Vic was pulling water from the same well?

SoCrates

Edited March 3, 2011 by So_crates

[Ham]

yes. But in practical terms, no harm never really happened..

it's really impossible..

so what is the choice.. do the least harm one can do.

In a sense, we are all "screwed"..

[waysider]

Crowley, didn't he say, Do as thou will, but do no harm?

Which, of course, brings up another subject. Crowley was into sexual magick. Tou think Saint Vic was pulling water from the same well?

SoCrates

The Book of the Law (1904)

Also known as Liber AL vel Legis

* Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

o I:40 This famous statement derives from several historic precedents, including that of François Rabelais in describing the rule of his Abbey of Thélème in Gargantua and Pantagruel: Fait ce que vouldras (Do what thou wilt), which was later used by the Hellfire Club established by Sir Francis Dashwood. It is also similar to the pagan proverb: An ye harm none, do what thou wilt; but the oldest known statement of a similar idea is by St. Augustine of Hippo: Love, and do what thou wilt.

Source

[Ham]

"St" vic was more than into sexual "majik"..

really weird. take it as you will..

I ask the animals that I consume for sustenance, for forgiveness..

:)

really weird. take it as you will..

I ask the animals that I consume for sustenance, for forgiveness..

:)

[waysider]

If he really thought this concept was new to the philosophical community, he was quite deluded.

Personally, I think he was quite aware this "new insight" was really revamped paraphrasing of other sources.

(That's a polite way of saying he ripped it off.)

Edited March 3, 2011 by waysider

[So_crates]

really weird. take it as you will..

I ask the animals that I consume for sustenance, for forgiveness..

:)

Don't think that's weird at all. Last fall when I was picking tomatoes off the vine, I was thanking the plant for being kind enough to produce food for me.

I'm not wiccan, or an enviormentalist. It just felt like the thing to do.

SoCrates

[Ham]

:)

If I might add..

what fundamentally is wrong with wiccan?

I'm too small to judge..

[So_crates]

If he really thought this concept was new to the philosophical community, he was quite deluded.

Personally, I think he was quite aware this "new insight" was really revamped paraphrasing of other sources.

(That's a polite way of saying he ripped it off.)

I don't think he was deluded and I don't think he thought his insights were new. I think he just sold them that way to attract followers.

Kind of like they're not used cars anymore, they're pre-owned vehicles. He could say the same thing about the so-called light he brought to this generation: pre-owned by a little old lady that took it to church on Sundays.

SoCrates

[waysider]

really weird. take it as you will..

I ask the animals that I consume for sustenance, for forgiveness..

:)

This is not weird.

For some Native American peoples, this is standard operating procedure. (Forgiveness and gratitude)

Edited March 3, 2011 by waysider

[So_crates]

:)

what fundamentally is wrong with wiccan?

Nothing at all. For me it was a matter of integrety. Then people get an image in their head of what I am, I act contrary to it (in this case wiccan) and people think I'm being a hypocrite.

SoCrates

[Ham]

I really don't know what I am..

too many labels.

what am I..

maybe it depends on something bigger than feeble *me*..

[Ham]

So I'm still waiting here.. HOW was vic's "ministry" a safe harbor, or a safe haven?

How was his "organization" even a *ministry*?

[Grace Valerie Claire]

On 1/31/2011 at 9:04 PM, waysider said:

As long as I can do my "Lo Shanta"s, who gives a crap about anybody else? I'm going to Heaven and all Hell can't stop me. V.P. said so and he wouldn't lie----would he? :unsure:

Way, please correct me if I am wrong.  Wasn't it you who said that " all men are liars, and that's the truth."

[waysider]

9 minutes ago, Grace Valerie Claire said:

Way, please correct me if I am wrong.  Wasn't it you who said that " all men are liars, and that's the truth."

Well, I'm a man, so I'm probably not the best person to ask.

[Grace Valerie Claire]

Just now, waysider said:

Well, I'm a man, so I'm probably not the best person to ask.

Way, pardon me!!  I know I read it on an old thread; I thought you had said it. If you didn't say it, I can't remember who said it, but I thought it was it was a great quote.

[Grace Valerie Claire]

On 3/2/2011 at 6:47 PM, skyrider said:

Wierwille was a cherry-picker.....

He picked a scripture here and there......but no substance on the two great commandments on love. Figures. Wierwille would side-step this and look for the lazy way out.

If there was such a thing as cherry-drambuie.....wierwille could be in line.

Sky, he would probably be the first in line, and everyone else could forget about it.  

[Grace Valerie Claire]

On 3/2/2011 at 7:00 PM, Ham said:

then, he was by his own words, a fool.

Ham, what a clever post!!  

[Grace Valerie Claire]

On 3/2/2011 at 7:19 PM, waysider said:

Well, actually, he never said your intentions had to be "good". He only said they ought to lead to whatever it was that would please you. -----Screw the other guy, as long as I get whatever I want.

"Do what you like, as long as you like what you do"----VP Wierwille

If other people get hurt, too bad for them.