I suppose so. I was really thinking more, though, of VP's Freudian slippers that he wore for all to see in the CF&S class. And we marveled at how comfortable they appeared to be.
I suppose so. I was really thinking more, though, of VP's Freudian slippers that he wore for all to see in the CF&S class. And we marveled at how comfortable they appeared to be.
Oh, okay. I never took CFS, so that's new information to me.
Oh, okay. I never took CFS, so that's new information to me.
SoCrates
Well, there were little hints all through the class (Freudian slips) that revealed the real Wierwille. Things like his comments on breasts, his private interpretation of the original sin being a particular sex act, etc. etc. But most of us got sucked into that nonsense about how you can renew your mind to the point of ---I don't know what the proper word or phrase is---you can be so spiritually mature or something that you wouldn't think such things are evil. Turns out, all that means is you can self delude yourself and become adept at rationalization if it suits your lusts.
One poster here has described an incidence of sexual imposition that he witnessed during the course of the CF&S class. And, he opined, it was actually good because it happened in what most people would call a church related setting. WTF?? What in the he!! was wrong with us that we bought into this horse crap? Better yet, what in the he!! is wrong with people who saw what was going on and still don't understand it?
People were deceived.........happens all the time.
Seems like wierwille had a propensity for "waving his sin" in full view and then, secretly, following thru on his lusts of the flesh. For example, he states in pfal that "all the women in the kingdom BELONG to the king".....and then, goes on to lure women into his motorcoach, an "entitlement" of his exalted position.
Also, in pfal.....when wierwille is speaking of Paul and states, "I'd want to read it line by line and word for word BEFORE I'd call the great Apostle Paul a sex pervert." In other words....you'd better have absolute 100% proof before leveling such an allegation on Paul. And now, with wierwille dead and gone......there is undeniable evidence of many who suffered from his perverted ways and deviant behavior.
Who would have ever thought that this "preacher" was a pervert?
See, like a thief or murderer who prepares an alibi BEFORE the crime......wierwille laid a "spiritual alibi" right there in pfal so that he'd be the LAST ONE SUSPECTED of ever doing something like that. So,.....before, during and after.....the deception of perversion by wierwille was masterfully deceptive.
Seems to me.......this depth of deceiving others comes from one source.
Johniam wrote something about seminary students...it seems like ages ago, but it is really only a few pages back. He wrote " their minds have been numbed to the point that they don't believe the bible is literally the word of God they're supposed to be subject to. It's just a sampler plate from a buffet to them. No actual submission. At least, that's the goal."
I had a bunch of bible college students here this past summer for a bachelor party. They had a nice dinner out, came back had a few beers and a fire outside. Most of them are musicians as well as training for some sort of ministry. They played music....hung out and at the end of the night they prayed together. The young Pastor(a real one) who did the ceremony, is a good friend and he was there to watch over the guys and celebrate with the groom. These young men don't need too much in the way of supervision, they keep each other on a pure path. They are accountable to each other. Funny thing, you can term them actual "believers" and guess what? NO pornography at the party. None of them would ever allow it.
They submit and are subject to that odd little thing in scripture that tells us to flee sexual immorality. It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; . . . 1 Thess 4:3 This one is for the Word of God is the Will of God crowd....and there is no caveat for "believer" bachelor parties.
Often in scripture, the word which is translated into sexual immorality is the word "Pornos or Porneia. Can we guess what English word we get from that?
In Corinthians Paul speaks of a previous letter he wrote to them advising them not to associate with sexually immoral people. So, the Corinthian church lived in a little bubble, they stopped having contact with the outside world. Yet, they were more than surrounded by the sexually immoral....that is because they were all in the church! It was so bad...they even scandalized the Pagans.
I was disheartened by the nose dive this thread took with this post by johniam....it took us right back to that place we all have managed to escape.
There are some wonderful thoughts on this thread....but, here we are again......wallowing in base conversation...I guess that is what happens when one discusses VP and PFAL with a "Believer".
Hey, the guy (waysider) asked me if I took CFS and if I remembered something specific about it. You can't get me to directly address your concerns so you resort to your security blanket which is moral superiority. Your self righteous attitude is more disgusting to God than anything I've posted. You just don't get it.
quote: Better yet, what in the he!! is wrong with people who saw what was going on and still don't understand it?
I guess some of us got our pov about sexual matters from somewhere other than the dark ages.
I was disheartened by the nose dive this thread took with this post by johniam....it took us right back to that place we all have managed to escape.
There are some wonderful thoughts on this thread....but, here we are again......wallowing in base conversation...I guess that is what happens when one discusses VP and PFAL with a "Believer".
Hey, the guy (waysider) asked me if I took CFS and if I remembered something specific about it. You can't get me to directly address your concerns so you resort to your security blanket which is moral superiority. Your self righteous attitude is more disgusting to God than anything I've posted. You just don't get it.
quote: Better yet, what in the he!! is wrong with people who saw what was going on and still don't understand it?
I guess some of us got our pov about sexual matters from somewhere other than the dark ages.
How nice, God finds my attitude disgusting. Did he give you revelation?
Let me ask you this johniam.....if you were going to say.....invite the Lord Jesus Christ.....to one of those "believer's" bachelor parties you mentioned. How would you word the invite? "Hey ....Jesus the Christ . . . .the holy one of God.....a couple of your devoted followers and I are getting together to celebrate the sanctity of marriage.....nothing to big....gonna hang out and watch some porn"...."You in?"
If you liked me johniam...I would be pretty worried. But, I can take heart...along with Billy Graham and seminary students who God also has a problem with, among others you have mentioned......I am in good company.... .
VP on the other hand....golden and good to go.
I am not morally superior to anyone....I am a sinner....which is why I need a savior. The one who you should not only believe is moral but who also teaches us what it means to be good. Me, I have to rely on Him.
I have not given you my personal take on morality....I have been steadily giving you scripture. Who is it you really have a problem with?
Hey, the guy (waysider) asked me if I took CFS and if I remembered something specific about it. You can't get me to directly address your concerns so you resort to your security blanket which is moral superiority. Your self righteous attitude is more disgusting to God than anything I've posted. You just don't get it.
Excuse me, John, who is acting morally superior? And you don't think its being morally superior to point out the percieved moral superiority in others? Your not being self righteous by your attitude? And how do you think God feels about your morally superior, self righteous attitude?
I guess some of us got our pov about sexual matters from somewhere other than the dark ages.
Now there's a non-morally superior reply (where is that sarcastic smiley?)
quote: and there is no caveat for "believer" bachelor parties.
Oh, no?
2 Sam. 6:14 - and David danced before the Lord with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod.
David not only did the bachelor party thing, he brought the bachelor party to the PEOPLE! But, alas, there were morally superior people back then, too.
6:20,21 - Then David returned to bless his household. And Michal the daughter of Saul came out to meet David, and said, How glorious was the king of Israel today, who uncovered himself today in the eyes of the handmaids of his servants, as one of the vain fellows shamelessly uncovereth himself! And David said unto Michal, it was before the Lord, which chose me before thy father, and before all his house, to appoint me ruler over the people of the Lord, over Israel: therefore will I play before the Lord.
Apparently David didn't appreciate moral superiority either.
6:23 - Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death.
David not only did the bachelor party thing, he brought the bachelor party to the PEOPLE! But, alas, there were morally superior people back then, too.
Apparently David didn't appreciate moral superiority either.
They submit and are subject to that odd little thing in scripture that tells us to flee sexual immorality. It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; . . . 1 Thess 4:3 This one is for the Word of God is the Will of God crowd....and there is no caveat for "believer" bachelor parties.
Often in scripture, the word which is translated into sexual immorality is the word "Pornos or Porneia. Can we guess what English word we get from that?
quote: and there is no caveat for "believer" bachelor parties.
Oh, no?
2 Sam. 6:14 - and David danced before the Lord with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod.
David not only did the bachelor party thing, he brought the bachelor party to the PEOPLE! But, alas, there were morally superior people back then, too.
6:20,21 - Then David returned to bless his household. And Michal the daughter of Saul came out to meet David, and said, How glorious was the king of Israel today, who uncovered himself today in the eyes of the handmaids of his servants, as one of the vain fellows shamelessly uncovereth himself! And David said unto Michal, it was before the Lord, which chose me before thy father, and before all his house, to appoint me ruler over the people of the Lord, over Israel: therefore will I play before the Lord.
Apparently David didn't appreciate moral superiority either.
6:23 - Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death.
David danced before the Lord. David didn't have shame before the Lord he had joy. Are you telling me David was behaving immorally before God? Or ...are you somehow trying to draw a parallel between myself and Michal? Johniam....this is one of my favorite parts of scripture....David dancing with all his might.....why? Because I know what it is like to have joy in the Lord....
David was worshiping God. Not watching pornography.
Do you actually equate the two things? You don't see anything wrong with a bunch of men who call themselves followers of Christ getting together to celebrate a wedding, by watching pornography. A-okay with God, despite the numerous scriptures I can show you which say the opposite?
How can you twist scripture like that? One might think you were twisting scripture to justify behavior.
Where does that come from?
Never mind...I took PFAL many times myself. I get it. You must have hunted all day for that one! Did you happen to read all the verses that actually do address sexual sin while you were searching for that one? Did you let the Word of God speak to you?
Waysider thanks for posting that link. I didn't know how much the book cost. I tried to get it at the library; not there. I did not know Kris personally, but she was in STL the year before I got here. Pretty much everybody said good things about her. Even today nobody that knew her says anything bad about her. I will get around to reading her book eventually. That's not a bad price for a new book with that many pages.
quote: I get it. You must have hunted all day for that one!
No, it just popped in my mind. The analogy is not a 100% match, obviously, but I just think you live in a religious dream world. Your choice. If any of those guys you mentioned who were at your place for beers and fellowship ever DID want to watch some porno, then they probably wouldn't ask for your permission beforehand.
Waysider thanks for posting that link. I didn't know how much the book cost. I tried to get it at the library; not there. I did not know Kris personally, but she was in STL the year before I got here. Pretty much everybody said good things about her. Even today nobody that knew her says anything bad about her. I will get around to reading her book eventually. That's not a bad price for a new book with that many pages.
quote: I get it. You must have hunted all day for that one!
No, it just popped in my mind. The analogy is not a 100% match, obviously, but I just think you live in a religious dream world. Your choice. If any of those guys you mentioned who were at your place for beers and fellowship ever DID want to watch some porno, then they probably wouldn't ask for your permission beforehand.
Your analogy is not 100% but I just live in a religious dream? How does that connect? Never mind...I don't really care....and I already know....I was in TWI. We covered this already....there is a difference between being aware of what sin is, what is wrong, and trying to live Godly....or doing what is wrong and trying to justify it with scripture. Being sin conscious. In TWI would we slap a blanket label of "Religious" on holiness...confused between the two and feel superior in our unregenerate state. I did it too. I was a master at it. It is one of my greatest shames.
I am well aware Christians sin....the difference is in how we deal with it as opposed to how we dealt with it in TWI. Being aware of it is a good first step. Being aware of what scripture actually has to say for itself is another place to start. Being aware of who Jesus is...his heart, His character, His attributes...all biggies in the Christians life. Our relationship is with Him....not scripture. For TWI proponents, they should be especially aware in the area of sexual sin, idolatry, and greed. That is because, if you look at the scriptures....those things go hand in hand. How we dealt with these issues is all wrapped up in what we were taught. What we were taught was an amalgamation of justification for one man's desire for sexual sin, greed, and idolatry. We worshiped the bible...but, the bible as taught by VP. It blinded us to Christ.
VP taught us occultism as Waysider pointed out. He taught us the arcana as clearly articulated on the snapping thread. We embraced the prosperity gospel....which has its roots in the Word of Faith Movement.....He taught us a bizarre understanding of The Holy Spirit which centered around US and our power instead of God's glory. He relegated Jesus to the hinterlands and replaced Him with the written word via PFAL. The word anti in John's epistles referring to anti-Christ is pretty straight forward...against Christ...anti-Christ. It can also mean to replace Christ with something else. Session 5 of PFAL (I think) The written word replaces the absent Christ. It made sense because we had no where to go...we denied how God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit work as one. So, it fit. We had nothing left but the written word. VP stealthily brought us right there.
VP taught us that SIT was our sign of salvation. If we truly believe....the sure word we have is Jesus Christ. We don't need a sign...we believe. SIT is a sign to those who don't believe. He also had SIT so messed up it is sad. Paul, speaking to the Corinthians...who also had SIT pretty wacky....told them they could receive another spirit. Read it in context . It could have been written about TWI.
VP taught us a partial gospel...he focused on Romans 10: 9, 10 to the exclusion of all else. Like it was a magic formula. Peter said, Repent. There is more to the gospel and salvation than simply a verbal confession. It is a life altering belief and change. One, which will be reflected in our lives. There is a difference between an abrupt personality change which happens when one is influenced by packaged persuasion and cultic mind bending...and that of true transformation. I had that confused for years...unable to see that true transformation didn't allow for despising holiness.
I could go on about what he sold us as truth which has not been known since the first century. It was a big pile of .......
Thanks though johniam. writing these things out helps me. . . .....and it makes me thankful I got out.
When I climbed the ranks swiftly -as leadership found my waist length hair and young body attractive- I began to see an emergence of a ominous inner circle. The Way International's leadership held parties where you could be "with" anyone and drink or smoke anything and it was okay. This inner circle sinned and believed that they lived above the word of God.
It was described to me as a higher plane and only people who "could handle it" were invited to partake. Anyone who objected or reproved their behavior was considered someone who "stumbled" at their freedom in their walk with Christ. Therefore, there was no way to correct them, they exalted themselves as gods deciding what was right and what was wrong. (Genesis 3:5).
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Broken Arrow
I
WordWolf
Have I mentioned lately that I'm actually getting quite a bit out of this thread? I don't just mean in a sense of psychology/sociology/criminology, but in a sense of Christian learning. The whole p
T-Bone
morals are man-made? Really?!?! please provide some documentation to back up that philosophical assertion. personally i lean toward the christian idea [that does have a biblical basis] that man is m
Ham
everything.. was wrong with us..
including me.
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Ham
I hope .. the newer generation, finds.. LSD 25..
it was a wrench, tossed in the machinery..
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So_crates
The dude kinda reminds me of Saint Vic (he had some of his looks and qualities). Its as if Saint Vic and Arthur Godfrey had a kid.
In the beginning he even had some of Saint Vic's cadences in his speech.
SoCrates
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waysider
I suppose so. I was really thinking more, though, of VP's Freudian slippers that he wore for all to see in the CF&S class. And we marveled at how comfortable they appeared to be.
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So_crates
Oh, okay. I never took CFS, so that's new information to me.
SoCrates
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waysider
Well, there were little hints all through the class (Freudian slips) that revealed the real Wierwille. Things like his comments on breasts, his private interpretation of the original sin being a particular sex act, etc. etc. But most of us got sucked into that nonsense about how you can renew your mind to the point of ---I don't know what the proper word or phrase is---you can be so spiritually mature or something that you wouldn't think such things are evil. Turns out, all that means is you can self delude yourself and become adept at rationalization if it suits your lusts.
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skyrider
People were deceived.........happens all the time.
Seems like wierwille had a propensity for "waving his sin" in full view and then, secretly, following thru on his lusts of the flesh. For example, he states in pfal that "all the women in the kingdom BELONG to the king".....and then, goes on to lure women into his motorcoach, an "entitlement" of his exalted position.
Also, in pfal.....when wierwille is speaking of Paul and states, "I'd want to read it line by line and word for word BEFORE I'd call the great Apostle Paul a sex pervert." In other words....you'd better have absolute 100% proof before leveling such an allegation on Paul. And now, with wierwille dead and gone......there is undeniable evidence of many who suffered from his perverted ways and deviant behavior.
Who would have ever thought that this "preacher" was a pervert?
See, like a thief or murderer who prepares an alibi BEFORE the crime......wierwille laid a "spiritual alibi" right there in pfal so that he'd be the LAST ONE SUSPECTED of ever doing something like that. So,.....before, during and after.....the deception of perversion by wierwille was masterfully deceptive.
Seems to me.......this depth of deceiving others comes from one source.
And, it's NOT from the Lord Above.
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Ham
yep.
sorry,that's the best I've got here..
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geisha779
Johniam wrote something about seminary students...it seems like ages ago, but it is really only a few pages back. He wrote " their minds have been numbed to the point that they don't believe the bible is literally the word of God they're supposed to be subject to. It's just a sampler plate from a buffet to them. No actual submission. At least, that's the goal."
I had a bunch of bible college students here this past summer for a bachelor party. They had a nice dinner out, came back had a few beers and a fire outside. Most of them are musicians as well as training for some sort of ministry. They played music....hung out and at the end of the night they prayed together. The young Pastor(a real one) who did the ceremony, is a good friend and he was there to watch over the guys and celebrate with the groom. These young men don't need too much in the way of supervision, they keep each other on a pure path. They are accountable to each other. Funny thing, you can term them actual "believers" and guess what? NO pornography at the party. None of them would ever allow it.
They submit and are subject to that odd little thing in scripture that tells us to flee sexual immorality. It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; . . . 1 Thess 4:3 This one is for the Word of God is the Will of God crowd....and there is no caveat for "believer" bachelor parties.
Often in scripture, the word which is translated into sexual immorality is the word "Pornos or Porneia. Can we guess what English word we get from that?
In Corinthians Paul speaks of a previous letter he wrote to them advising them not to associate with sexually immoral people. So, the Corinthian church lived in a little bubble, they stopped having contact with the outside world. Yet, they were more than surrounded by the sexually immoral....that is because they were all in the church! It was so bad...they even scandalized the Pagans.
Sound familiar?
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johniam
quote:
I was disheartened by the nose dive this thread took with this post by johniam....it took us right back to that place we all have managed to escape.
There are some wonderful thoughts on this thread....but, here we are again......wallowing in base conversation...I guess that is what happens when one discusses VP and PFAL with a "Believer".
Hey, the guy (waysider) asked me if I took CFS and if I remembered something specific about it. You can't get me to directly address your concerns so you resort to your security blanket which is moral superiority. Your self righteous attitude is more disgusting to God than anything I've posted. You just don't get it.
quote: Better yet, what in the he!! is wrong with people who saw what was going on and still don't understand it?
I guess some of us got our pov about sexual matters from somewhere other than the dark ages.
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johniam
quote: I hope .. the newer generation, finds.. LSD 25..
I dunno, Ham. I did that stuff probably 100 times total and look how I turned out.
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geisha779
How nice, God finds my attitude disgusting. Did he give you revelation?
Let me ask you this johniam.....if you were going to say.....invite the Lord Jesus Christ.....to one of those "believer's" bachelor parties you mentioned. How would you word the invite? "Hey ....Jesus the Christ . . . .the holy one of God.....a couple of your devoted followers and I are getting together to celebrate the sanctity of marriage.....nothing to big....gonna hang out and watch some porn"...."You in?"
If you liked me johniam...I would be pretty worried. But, I can take heart...along with Billy Graham and seminary students who God also has a problem with, among others you have mentioned......I am in good company.... .
VP on the other hand....golden and good to go.
I am not morally superior to anyone....I am a sinner....which is why I need a savior. The one who you should not only believe is moral but who also teaches us what it means to be good. Me, I have to rely on Him.
I have not given you my personal take on morality....I have been steadily giving you scripture. Who is it you really have a problem with?
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So_crates
Excuse me, John, who is acting morally superior? And you don't think its being morally superior to point out the percieved moral superiority in others? Your not being self righteous by your attitude? And how do you think God feels about your morally superior, self righteous attitude?
Now there's a non-morally superior reply (where is that sarcastic smiley?)
SoCrates
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waysider
ad hominem alert!
(generic fallacy)
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johniam
quote: and there is no caveat for "believer" bachelor parties.
Oh, no?
2 Sam. 6:14 - and David danced before the Lord with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod.
David not only did the bachelor party thing, he brought the bachelor party to the PEOPLE! But, alas, there were morally superior people back then, too.
6:20,21 - Then David returned to bless his household. And Michal the daughter of Saul came out to meet David, and said, How glorious was the king of Israel today, who uncovered himself today in the eyes of the handmaids of his servants, as one of the vain fellows shamelessly uncovereth himself! And David said unto Michal, it was before the Lord, which chose me before thy father, and before all his house, to appoint me ruler over the people of the Lord, over Israel: therefore will I play before the Lord.
Apparently David didn't appreciate moral superiority either.
6:23 - Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death.
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cman
those verses and that event has nothing to do with what happened in the way
you are making them fit your own needs
you want it to happen like in the way, huh?
you sound like a branch davidian
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So_crates
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waysider
For whom was it a "safe harbor"?
Certainly not Kristen
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geisha779
David danced before the Lord. David didn't have shame before the Lord he had joy. Are you telling me David was behaving immorally before God? Or ...are you somehow trying to draw a parallel between myself and Michal? Johniam....this is one of my favorite parts of scripture....David dancing with all his might.....why? Because I know what it is like to have joy in the Lord....
David was worshiping God. Not watching pornography.
Do you actually equate the two things? You don't see anything wrong with a bunch of men who call themselves followers of Christ getting together to celebrate a wedding, by watching pornography. A-okay with God, despite the numerous scriptures I can show you which say the opposite?
How can you twist scripture like that? One might think you were twisting scripture to justify behavior.
Where does that come from?
Never mind...I took PFAL many times myself. I get it. You must have hunted all day for that one! Did you happen to read all the verses that actually do address sexual sin while you were searching for that one? Did you let the Word of God speak to you?
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geisha779
I need to order that book. I have read the excerpts and listened to the interview....it is disturbing.
He was disgusting.
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johniam
Waysider thanks for posting that link. I didn't know how much the book cost. I tried to get it at the library; not there. I did not know Kris personally, but she was in STL the year before I got here. Pretty much everybody said good things about her. Even today nobody that knew her says anything bad about her. I will get around to reading her book eventually. That's not a bad price for a new book with that many pages.
quote: I get it. You must have hunted all day for that one!
No, it just popped in my mind. The analogy is not a 100% match, obviously, but I just think you live in a religious dream world. Your choice. If any of those guys you mentioned who were at your place for beers and fellowship ever DID want to watch some porno, then they probably wouldn't ask for your permission beforehand.
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cman
so
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geisha779
Your analogy is not 100% but I just live in a religious dream? How does that connect? Never mind...I don't really care....and I already know....I was in TWI. We covered this already....there is a difference between being aware of what sin is, what is wrong, and trying to live Godly....or doing what is wrong and trying to justify it with scripture. Being sin conscious. In TWI would we slap a blanket label of "Religious" on holiness...confused between the two and feel superior in our unregenerate state. I did it too. I was a master at it. It is one of my greatest shames.
I am well aware Christians sin....the difference is in how we deal with it as opposed to how we dealt with it in TWI. Being aware of it is a good first step. Being aware of what scripture actually has to say for itself is another place to start. Being aware of who Jesus is...his heart, His character, His attributes...all biggies in the Christians life. Our relationship is with Him....not scripture. For TWI proponents, they should be especially aware in the area of sexual sin, idolatry, and greed. That is because, if you look at the scriptures....those things go hand in hand. How we dealt with these issues is all wrapped up in what we were taught. What we were taught was an amalgamation of justification for one man's desire for sexual sin, greed, and idolatry. We worshiped the bible...but, the bible as taught by VP. It blinded us to Christ.
VP taught us occultism as Waysider pointed out. He taught us the arcana as clearly articulated on the snapping thread. We embraced the prosperity gospel....which has its roots in the Word of Faith Movement.....He taught us a bizarre understanding of The Holy Spirit which centered around US and our power instead of God's glory. He relegated Jesus to the hinterlands and replaced Him with the written word via PFAL. The word anti in John's epistles referring to anti-Christ is pretty straight forward...against Christ...anti-Christ. It can also mean to replace Christ with something else. Session 5 of PFAL (I think) The written word replaces the absent Christ. It made sense because we had no where to go...we denied how God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit work as one. So, it fit. We had nothing left but the written word. VP stealthily brought us right there.
VP taught us that SIT was our sign of salvation. If we truly believe....the sure word we have is Jesus Christ. We don't need a sign...we believe. SIT is a sign to those who don't believe. He also had SIT so messed up it is sad. Paul, speaking to the Corinthians...who also had SIT pretty wacky....told them they could receive another spirit. Read it in context . It could have been written about TWI.
VP taught us a partial gospel...he focused on Romans 10: 9, 10 to the exclusion of all else. Like it was a magic formula. Peter said, Repent. There is more to the gospel and salvation than simply a verbal confession. It is a life altering belief and change. One, which will be reflected in our lives. There is a difference between an abrupt personality change which happens when one is influenced by packaged persuasion and cultic mind bending...and that of true transformation. I had that confused for years...unable to see that true transformation didn't allow for despising holiness.
I could go on about what he sold us as truth which has not been known since the first century. It was a big pile of .......
Thanks though johniam. writing these things out helps me. . . .....and it makes me thankful I got out.
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So_crates
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Could this be the source of all the rationalizing and accusations of moral superiority that have been leveled at some in this thread?
When you set yourself up to decide right and wrong--well, it doesn't get much more morally superior than that.
Hint: Read the whole article. It's fill of morally superior people--
SoCrates
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