the victoids' *ministry(?)*

[Bolshevik]

why do some still like vp/pfal?

they never tested it and taken it apart to see what it is

it is not easy, but can be done

. . .

It's like how yer dad been wearing those same set of clothes for decades . . . I guess

Think it was on Sienfeld (sp?) . . .

My guess . . .

[Ham]

why do some still like vp/pfal?

my guess is.. they probably didn't really know him, to begin with..

I dunno. Maybe they were not "ministered to" properly..

[cman]

yeah, get past all the sales hype

really look at the product with some common sense

and then the salesman's life

[WordWolf]

(snip)

quote: So, then, what if there really is such a thing as speaking in tongues but the stuff VPW sold us is fake? Would that make you feel betrayed?

So what if c-a-t really spells dog? Makes as much sense.

[Quite instructive?

What if what you were taught was wrong?

I refuse to even consider the possibility. I was taught it was wrong to CONSIDER-look what

it did to Eve. So, if I'm wrong, I'd rather stay wrong a lifetime than think.]

Do you know how we serve the law of sin with our flesh? We die. If you serve something, then you are paid wages, right? The wages of sin is....death.

[since your conclusion contradicts Scripture, your reasoning is faulty.]

Romans 7:25

25Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.

Romans 8:6-8.

6For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,

7because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,

8and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Romans 8: 13

13for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

[Nothing in Scripture says those who follow the law of sin die IMMEDIATELY or SOON.

Frankly, if those who did, DID die shortly, even the thickest natural man would notice.

"Well, they said that was safe activity to practice- but everyone who practices it

dies within a year. They must be wrong."

Plenty of those who live according to the flesh cut years and DECADES off their lives.

We all know at least one person who did- who was a chronic smoker and chronic drinker

rather than practicing the temperance, moderation, and good stewardship of the body

that God says to practice- and he died fairly young for someone who had excellent access

to healthcare.

Then there was Jerry Garcia, who likewise did all sorts of things, looked decades older

than he was, and died fairly young for the late 20th century.

Then there was Freddie Mercury, who practiced dangerous activities of all sorts. He got sick

and died fairly young.

Then there was Jim Morrison, and Janice Joplin. They died VERY young, and directly due to their

dangerous practices.

Of course, there's no 1:1 correlation "bad practices=dying young", but it does age the body

prematurely. Jerry Garcia, I heard, was trying to clean out when he died- the damage was

already done long ago for long periods of time.

Jim Jones had lots of young followers who died young because they were stupid enough to

follow what their "minister" said to do.

Some people have less-than-healthy genes, and can have a heart attack fairly young.

Others can be unhealthy and not have heart attacks, eventually dying but lasting longer than

one might suppose.

However, the damage that those who pursue sin do to themselves does not kill the person in anything

resembling a short time, in a manner showing "it's due to the sin in practice."]

Edited February 4, 2011 by WordWolf

[Ham]

I'm still looking for the "safe harbor" definition here.

partly with ridicule. sorry, it's me. but I'm willing to hear the defense. You're gonna need it, in my opinion..

"too many".. even just ONE SINGLE sister in the lord, run through the meat grinder.. would be "too many".

so what was this "safe harbor"? Who qualified as the inhabitants? What were you "saved" from.. in tangible terms.

some claim to be saved from Marijuana.. maybe it was a big deal for them, I dunno. But for me, I think I would prefer the "sickness".. over the "cure"..

where, what is the *special* protection..

why didn't it work UNIFORMLY, as promised?

safe harbor?

there are two qualifications here.

1. It has to actually BE a harbor.

2. It has to be *safe*..

I dunno. In old time.. (and probably modern) harbors were dens of smugglers, opium distributors, and other unsavory characters..

and as in the first post here.

"Safe? you've GOT to be kidding.."

[Ham]

and if it makes any difference.

the current "harbor" I'm in, has absolutely no bearing on any kind of inner peace I have at the moment..

weird, huh?

I remember talking with "kids" my age in the seventies.. maybe more accurate would be "interviewing" them.

A few brain damaged individuals, from huffing all kinds of solvents, and other questionable practices, told me EVERYTHING..

why they robbed the local drug store at night.. and were clueless as to why the police would consider it some kind of societal issue..

I can see your reasons, your motivation.. your expectations.. your mind set at the moment..

no, I can't participate.

I was sent to.. observe.

[waysider]

It was a safe harbor for mr. wierwille and his band of thugs. Holed up in their rural hideout, they were safe from inquisition.

Here at Greasespot, they stand naked on the parade ground for all to see.

[Ham]

God Bless you Wordwolf..

my dad died at 49. No, his life was exemplary. He was not a homosexual.. didn't take drugs.. he liked a *little* alcohol. and tobacco.

but otherwise, he was a fairly "clean" individual.

He loved God.. the bible..

he was involved in the community..

did what he could to if not change things, make that possible for others..

scary thought. I'm 54..

Whole settlements of the Tallman family failed, because the men just did not live much past fifty..

apparently longevity was not a requirement for the Observers..

well, it might not be much. But we get a capital 'O' somewhere..

[waysider]

His " safe harbor" was like a secret storeroom where he hoarded the spoils of his misadventures.

The Room

© 1972 David Burger/Bill Rossoll

Reap the harvest once again.

Pile your treasures high.

Lock them in a barren room,

that reaches toward the sky.

Lock them in where they'll be safe,

from avaricious hands.

Taking care to hide the key

in distant foreign lands.

Journey there in secrecy.

Let no one see the chart.

Keep it in that dismal tomb

you boldly call your heart.

In the tomb the chart is safe

to while away the day.

Danger there does not exist

for none can pass that way.

You'll return next harvest time

to add more to the store.

Cries shall fill your empty room.

Cries----and nothing more.

Edited February 5, 2011 by waysider

[Ham]

I wish he lived long enough to listen to some of the same music I'm listening to..

he could play the Mandolin..

thanks friend.. who is David Burger?

[waysider]

I wish he lived long enough to listen to some of the same music I'm listening to..

he could play the Mandolin..

thanks friend.. who is David Burger?

David Burger is a very talented multi-instrumentalist I knew many years ago. I did studio vocals for him in a band called The Resurrection of Emma Gross.

I think it would have been more fitting to have Wierwille sit in on the bone-a-fone.

(Or maybe the zipz-a-cord.)

Edited February 5, 2011 by waysider

[Ham]

You'll return next harvest time

to add more to the store.

this is probably true..

the *big* question is.. where am *I* (be nice. I''m really nothing here.. where will I be next time around..

[waysider]

this is probably true..

Yeah, but when he opens the door, there'll be nothing in the room but cries.

Edited February 5, 2011 by waysider

[Ham]

cries, no..

well.. we "hopefully" get to beat the snot out of whatever it was, that we were before..

no, no cries.

sorry, the Squirrel now is half drunk.

go your way, citizens, *hopefully* be warmed, and comforted.. in this sub-zero environment..

Now listening to the Grateful() Dead..

If my words did flow..

[waysider]

Cries for Wierwille---not the squirrel

[Ham]

Perhaps.. they are better.. left unsung..

sorry but no..

somebody is going to have to sing them..

If you should stand, who should guide you..

[Ham]

You'll have to look at this..

cmon. You can figure it out.. internet Safe and all..

The *then* Ramona.. describing to the *then(?) Romana..

"you'll be SAFE here.."

laughs, cries, no.

we will (and can) have the power to laugh his(?) foot off..

Edited February 5, 2011 by Ham

[johniam]

I think it's 'if my words did glow'.

I don't want to hear David Burger's words, I want to hear waysider's.

quote: [Nothing in Scripture says those who follow the law of sin die IMMEDIATELY or SOON.

Nothing in my post did either.

Edited February 5, 2011 by johniam

[waysider]

Rape of The Sun

© 1970 Burger/Rossoll

Onward he traveled as blood stained his hands,

leaving them helpless to die in the sands,

leaving them crying, unable to run.

He'll pay for the rape of the sun.

[johniam]

quote: What happens?

Well, for starters, you initially feel guilty. Must be trippin' out or somethin'. What if Gawd tries to talk to me? I won't be able to hear Him. How will I be able to pray for stuff? (Gawd doesn't understand the more mundane languages, like English and such, ya know?) And what about that inner spirit that needs me to keep feeding it? Won't it start to suffer from malnutrition if I deprive it of spiritual mashed potatoes? I mean, I know it's supposed to be completely, completely, complete already but maybe it can still become more completer.

And then, something interesting happens. You realize that speaking in tongues seems to have been acting as some sort of fuel on the fire of self delusion. You start to feel like you are waking up from a dream. Things take on a new perspective. And the whole world doesn't collapse around you with a thundering crash.

But, of course, I'm probably just a devil spirit trying to trick you. Yeah, that's it. Can't take the chance. Just too risky.

During my wow year I recall my wow brother asking one of the girls if she was SIT. She said none of your damn business. :) Two years later my twig cordo whom I worked with briefly would ask us that while we were on a ladder painting. He'd just say "lo shunta" in a cheerful voice. My wow sister was right; it is nobody else's business. Guilty? Tripping out? Can't hear God? Man, what cult were YOU in? I wasn't in any cult like that!

Even when I was forced out of twi I never felt like God was going to abuse me. One doesn't have to project twi bullying tactics onto God. God doesn't do that stuff.

[waysider]

Can't hear God? Man, what cult were YOU in? I wasn't in any cult like that!

Apparently you must have missed session 1 of the Advanced Class.

Page 10/A.C.

Keys To Walking In The Spirit

......

3. Speaking in tongues daily is prerequisite to revelation.

......

Edited February 5, 2011 by waysider

[waysider]

[excathedra]

ham and waysider what are you talking about

[waysider]

ham and waysider what are you talking about

On another thread, Johnny Yam said Wierwille's "ministry" was like a "safe harbor".

So, we're exploring the meaning of "safe harbor" and how it applied to Weirdwilly's "ministry".

Edited February 5, 2011 by waysider

[waysider]