Rochelle we know about from the thread "The Lead Accident: What Happened." The others I'm not sure about. I do know there was a girl in WC 7 who went home from Emporia to ho-ho relo and committed suicide by firearm while her parents were out Christmas shopping. I know they blamed LCM. This girl was a WOW in the same WOW branch I was in and I was told of her demise by another friend from Ohio FL who was in the 7th WC. I can't remember her name right now, unfortunately.
And, lest it should go unmentioned, Wierwille taught, in The Advanced Class, that suicide is caused by a "suicidal spirit". He also taught that there is a "spirit of death" that hangs around a person who is about to die.
Now, the real clincher to this whole thing is that he taught those things within the context of a class that was supposed to be teaching us how to recognize various spirits and deal with them appropriately.
Please tell me I'm not the only one that sees the bitter irony in this.
And, lest it should go unmentioned, Wierwille taught, in The Advanced Class, that suicide is caused by a "suicidal spirit". He also taught that there is a "spirit of death" that hangs around a person who is about to die.
Now, the real clincher to this whole thing is that he taught those things within the context of a class that was supposed to be teaching us how to recognize various spirits and deal with them appropriately.
Wasn't there supposed to be a 'klutz spirit' hiding in there, as well?
Wasn't there supposed to be a 'klutz spirit' hiding in there, as well?
Yes, it was called a "spirit of error". The scriptures referenced for this one are: I John 4:6, Matt. 24:24, Rev. 12:9, II John 7. Apparently Wierwille was not aware that there are people with poor physical co-ordination and/or poor eyesight.
On that same page, it also says that no one can commit murder unless they have a "spirit of murder" and that these are deeply seated spirits. Strangely, no one seemed to pick up on these using their "discerning of spirits".
But, then, no one seemed to pick up on the other "spirits" VPW would had to have had, either. I count no less than eight. These would include Spirit of Obsession (can't control temper), Sadistic spirit (sexual maniac), Deceiving spirit (self explanatory), Spirit of Python (poisons others minds), Masochistic spirit (enjoys inflicting hurt), Ego spirit (self explanatory), Spirit of Leviathan (alcoholic/substance abuse) and, of course, Spirit of Cancer....from page 20 of AC Silly-bus.
FOr a ministry that was supposed to endow us with Power for living an abundant life there sure were a lot of supposed evil spirits running around wreaking havok in peoples lives.
I remember at one point having a "Way Corps Alumn" tell me after a major face melting session at which he was to be a "witness" to my insubordination that if I ever decided to leave TWI I would become possessed with a lesbian spirit and start practicing witchcraft. (nevermind that I had never exhibited and signs of being a lesbian - I was just not submissive enough, so I must be a lesbian, you know?). Anyway, I was so distraught after the face melting (I had been told I was on the verge of "spiritual death") that I told him I wouldn't become a lesbian or a witch - I would just drive out into the country where no one would find me and bring a lot of pills because I would rather die than live outside the Household of God.
He was very shocked. He turned white as a sheet and just walked away.
It isn't hard for me to see that others felt the same way I did. At that point I had alienated and marked and avoided all of my family. I had nothing except TWI. Thank God I woke up YEARS later and got out.
Ah, JJ, you are not alone in those sentiments. Gosh, those spirits of rebellion were strong in TWI.
Such a dangerous place out there. In the world. Our families, that raised us more or less to be reasonable human being - so dangerous.
We really really needed the protection of TWI.
And yet, all the while, they managed to teach (?) us that we should be strong in the Lord, know how to wear and use our spiritual armor (that from Ephesians, the stuff the athletes of the spirit must have worn), and that we are seated in the heavenlies, and that we are not just conquerors but more than conquerors.
Seems to me that the "heavenlies" is a bit bigger place than "the household" or "Zion".
And "nothing can separate us from the love of Christ" is a bit bigger than "nothing can separate us from the love of TWI."
But of course when I was a Waybrained idiot, I too fell for the silly lie instilled by the fear-teachings, that being outside TWI was too dangerous.
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
So if we were fearful and had thoughts of suicide (and for some, actually did commit suicide) ...where was that from? And what sort of organization taught that? Not a Godly one, that's for sure.
:realmad: :realmad: :realmad: :realmad:
(this board won't let me add enough emoticons to say how I am about it!)
Just think it's really interesting that I never had a suicidal thought in my head until AFTER I met people from TWI who totally destroyed my concept of self. Within a year I was so confused and depressed I thought about riding my bicycle off the Henderson bridge and making it look like an accident. When I disclosed how confused and distressed I was to my overseers they got mad at me for not coming to them --Which confused me further, since I had just come to them!
The only thing that brought me back from the brink was I began to go running on a regular basis. It cleared my head enough to blow out any thought of suicide. However, I unfortunately never got my head clear enough to leave TWI for several decades. Was too afraid I'd disappoint God. Till I figued out they had led me AWAY from God and not TO Him.
I remember someone I went to high school with who was in the corps, killed herself during a weekend in the word in Wichita in the seventies. C*** Shi((ds. I heard rumors but never anything out in the open at the time.
But, then, no one seemed to pick up on the other "spirits" VPW would had to have had, either. I count no less than eight. These would include Spirit of Obsession (can't control temper), Sadistic spirit (sexual maniac), Deceiving spirit (self explanatory), Spirit of Python (poisons others minds), Masochistic spirit (enjoys inflicting hurt), Ego spirit (self explanatory), Spirit of Leviathan (alcoholic/substance abuse) and, of course, Spirit of Cancer....from page 20 of AC Silly-bus.
I picked up smoking cigarettes (tobacco) for a little while as a teenager . . . my father brought me before the twig coordinator . . . insisted I had the spirit of leviathan . . . the coordinator corrected him . . . the fact we heated the home with a wood stove might be the cause . . .
I picked up smoking cigarettes (tobacco) for a little while as a teenager . . . my father brought me before the twig coordinator . . . insisted I had the spirit of leviathan . . . the coordinator corrected him . . . the fact we heated the home with a wood stove might be the cause . . .
Damn, dude. Your dad accused of the Leviathan over smoking? That's hardcore in Wayfer devil spirit accusations. Still, I thought Leviathan was supposed to be the alcoholism spirit.
Damn, dude. Your dad accused of the Leviathan over smoking? That's hardcore in Wayfer devil spirit accusations. Still, I thought Leviathan was supposed to be the alcoholism spirit.
According to the Advanced Class silly-bus, it's the spirit that causes addictions, such as alcoholism, overeating, chain smoking, drug addiction etc. It also says that people who have this spirit are always drinking, even if it is only water. Personally, if I felt the need to constantly drink water, I think I would head for the doctor's office and inquire about a glucose tolerance test. Or an exorcism. Which ever is most convenient.
I just read this......Brenda Cox?? What corps was she in....and did she ever live in Wichita KS......I think was originally from Virginia....does anyone know??? Just trying to figure out if this is the girl I knew....if so, I'm very sad.
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Watered Garden
Rochelle we know about from the thread "The Lead Accident: What Happened." The others I'm not sure about. I do know there was a girl in WC 7 who went home from Emporia to ho-ho relo and committed suicide by firearm while her parents were out Christmas shopping. I know they blamed LCM. This girl was a WOW in the same WOW branch I was in and I was told of her demise by another friend from Ohio FL who was in the 7th WC. I can't remember her name right now, unfortunately.
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leafytwiglet
That is a lot of people... for such a short amount of time. at least one about every year.
That doesn't count the accidental deaths does it.
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Daggoo
FACT CHECKS PLEASE
Is all of this information TRUE?
There are many many many other deaths due to TWI - but are these in this video FACTUAL?
Don Miller associated in TWI? Really? Any proof? Any national news corroborate Miller in TWI?
What about the norwegian wc "spree killer"... the NJ WOW young woman murdered out witnessing...
I am all for showing the evil in TWI. Some of the names in this vid just ring flat...
Why could whoever made this vid not get the girl's name spelled correctly?
WAJNBERG.
....-poor untrustworthy information.
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Ham
What about T*m M*tchell? they got his name right.. even all of the sordid details..
what makes me wonder.. how many "events" didn't make a police report without da way's name attached..
and without "divine intervention".. i.e. preferential treatment, loy would have made the top of the "accidental death" list..
in my opinion.
Generally.. I think it all boiled down to da damned *ministry(?)* not being blamed..
in some cases I think they were successful enough to bury the details.. others, they were not..
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excathedra
i know my friend and "corps brother" is not on there
his wife told me when she found him (shot himself in the head) there was a note that said "he wished he was the man he knew to be"
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waysider
I've lost a few friends who are missing from the list, as well. But, then, I suppose quite a few of us are in that category.
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Ham
I've lost a few friends as well. However, I don't know if some are (still) living or dead..
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waysider
Sorry, I should have been a bit clearer.
I was specifically referring to ones who have died as a result of TWI involvement.
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Ham
Live would be wonderful..
dead is easy..
well.. relatively speaking..
it's da LIVING that seems to be so screwed up..
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leafytwiglet
this all make me wonder too how many people did die or were seriously injured... and as Dagoo said which of those in the video are true.
Edited to add okay I went to the actual Youtube video
sources for this one are listed as
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waysider
And, lest it should go unmentioned, Wierwille taught, in The Advanced Class, that suicide is caused by a "suicidal spirit". He also taught that there is a "spirit of death" that hangs around a person who is about to die.
Now, the real clincher to this whole thing is that he taught those things within the context of a class that was supposed to be teaching us how to recognize various spirits and deal with them appropriately.
Please tell me I'm not the only one that sees the bitter irony in this.
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skyrider
Wasn't there supposed to be a 'klutz spirit' hiding in there, as well?
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waysider
Yes, it was called a "spirit of error". The scriptures referenced for this one are: I John 4:6, Matt. 24:24, Rev. 12:9, II John 7. Apparently Wierwille was not aware that there are people with poor physical co-ordination and/or poor eyesight.
On that same page, it also says that no one can commit murder unless they have a "spirit of murder" and that these are deeply seated spirits. Strangely, no one seemed to pick up on these using their "discerning of spirits".
But, then, no one seemed to pick up on the other "spirits" VPW would had to have had, either. I count no less than eight. These would include Spirit of Obsession (can't control temper), Sadistic spirit (sexual maniac), Deceiving spirit (self explanatory), Spirit of Python (poisons others minds), Masochistic spirit (enjoys inflicting hurt), Ego spirit (self explanatory), Spirit of Leviathan (alcoholic/substance abuse) and, of course, Spirit of Cancer....from page 20 of AC Silly-bus.
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leafytwiglet
FOr a ministry that was supposed to endow us with Power for living an abundant life there sure were a lot of supposed evil spirits running around wreaking havok in peoples lives.
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JavaJane
I remember at one point having a "Way Corps Alumn" tell me after a major face melting session at which he was to be a "witness" to my insubordination that if I ever decided to leave TWI I would become possessed with a lesbian spirit and start practicing witchcraft. (nevermind that I had never exhibited and signs of being a lesbian - I was just not submissive enough, so I must be a lesbian, you know?). Anyway, I was so distraught after the face melting (I had been told I was on the verge of "spiritual death") that I told him I wouldn't become a lesbian or a witch - I would just drive out into the country where no one would find me and bring a lot of pills because I would rather die than live outside the Household of God.
He was very shocked. He turned white as a sheet and just walked away.
It isn't hard for me to see that others felt the same way I did. At that point I had alienated and marked and avoided all of my family. I had nothing except TWI. Thank God I woke up YEARS later and got out.
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Twinky
Ah, JJ, you are not alone in those sentiments. Gosh, those spirits of rebellion were strong in TWI.
Such a dangerous place out there. In the world. Our families, that raised us more or less to be reasonable human being - so dangerous.
We really really needed the protection of TWI.
And yet, all the while, they managed to teach (?) us that we should be strong in the Lord, know how to wear and use our spiritual armor (that from Ephesians, the stuff the athletes of the spirit must have worn), and that we are seated in the heavenlies, and that we are not just conquerors but more than conquerors.
Seems to me that the "heavenlies" is a bit bigger place than "the household" or "Zion".
And "nothing can separate us from the love of Christ" is a bit bigger than "nothing can separate us from the love of TWI."
But of course when I was a Waybrained idiot, I too fell for the silly lie instilled by the fear-teachings, that being outside TWI was too dangerous.
2 Timothy 1:7 KJV
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
So if we were fearful and had thoughts of suicide (and for some, actually did commit suicide) ...where was that from? And what sort of organization taught that? Not a Godly one, that's for sure.
(this board won't let me add enough emoticons to say how
I am about it!)
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Catcup
Just think it's really interesting that I never had a suicidal thought in my head until AFTER I met people from TWI who totally destroyed my concept of self. Within a year I was so confused and depressed I thought about riding my bicycle off the Henderson bridge and making it look like an accident. When I disclosed how confused and distressed I was to my overseers they got mad at me for not coming to them --Which confused me further, since I had just come to them!
The only thing that brought me back from the brink was I began to go running on a regular basis. It cleared my head enough to blow out any thought of suicide. However, I unfortunately never got my head clear enough to leave TWI for several decades. Was too afraid I'd disappoint God. Till I figued out they had led me AWAY from God and not TO Him.
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excathedra
loss of self was a major problem with my being in the way
went in to find myself lol
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JA47646
I remember someone I went to high school with who was in the corps, killed herself during a weekend in the word in Wichita in the seventies. C*** Shi((ds. I heard rumors but never anything out in the open at the time.
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excathedra
sadly of course nothing out in the open
how many institutionalized people have i heard about through the years
oh mygod i don't even care if they were really in need of mental help -- the fact that the way used them and abused them is enough
ps. this has never been fun for me telling my story
it has caused me great heartache because i can't handle it at times
so whatever
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Bolshevik
I picked up smoking cigarettes (tobacco) for a little while as a teenager . . . my father brought me before the twig coordinator . . . insisted I had the spirit of leviathan . . . the coordinator corrected him . . . the fact we heated the home with a wood stove might be the cause . . .
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shortfuse
Damn, dude. Your dad accused of the Leviathan over smoking? That's hardcore in Wayfer devil spirit accusations. Still, I thought Leviathan was supposed to be the alcoholism spirit.
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waysider
According to the Advanced Class silly-bus, it's the spirit that causes addictions, such as alcoholism, overeating, chain smoking, drug addiction etc. It also says that people who have this spirit are always drinking, even if it is only water. Personally, if I felt the need to constantly drink water, I think I would head for the doctor's office and inquire about a glucose tolerance test. Or an exorcism. Which ever is most convenient.
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newlife
I just read this......Brenda Cox?? What corps was she in....and did she ever live in Wichita KS......I think was originally from Virginia....does anyone know??? Just trying to figure out if this is the girl I knew....if so, I'm very sad.
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