That Mrs W in the front row, in the striped coat? The only one not smiling? Probably wondering which of the babes he's planning to "bless" later that day. Or night.
It's a Hudson Bay blanket coat Ms. W is wearing. I had the blankets but never saw that coat available; the development of the coat goes back centuries.
It was Jimmy Durante who said goodnight to mrs. Calabash.
George (Burns??) said goodnight to Gracie.
Can't you get anything right?.......LOL.
Thanks for the correction DWBH. How could I have forgotten the B&W TV from the late 50's - no, was not around early enough to hear Jimmy on the radio but he was around in the early years of TV. Yep, this belongs on another forum.
Well, the last time I checked, I was a woman who joined the Navy!! I love this poster!! Anyhow, to add my few pennies, I think VBW was a sick man!! A few years ago, a woman posted here at the Cafe, and she described in detail how she had been sexually abused, by a top leader in TWI. OMG!!! IIRC, I think the man who abused her was VPW!!! I know she made me cry when she described in detail how this man( VPW?) had raped her!! I know some people here at the Spot may live in a different than mine, but the way she described her experience was heartbreaking. If she was making this up, shame on her; but I think it really happened to the poor woman!!! I had, a hard, hard time reading about her experience. It was so sad; she broke my heart!
How could any man do that to a woman??!! If a man did that to a young girl/ woman today, his azz would be in prison!! And this was just one woman describing her experience with a powerful TWI leader. It made me realize that several many, many people were abused by people in TWI; so many people who just wanted to love God, and help people were victimized by the leaders. I know that someday God will deal with all the evil people in, and out of TWI, but I was furious that so many people were so hurt!
Grace, it wasn't just one woman who was raped or otherwise sexually assaulted by VPW. There were very many. Very many.
And it wasn't just assault by VPW but by LCM and other top leaders. Well - some weren't even "top leaders." And they weren't even all just American leaders. What I'm saying is that "Word over the World" aka Assault over the World, was just that. Assault over the (Way) World.
Grace, it wasn't just one woman who was raped or otherwise sexually assaulted by VPW. There were very many. Very many.
And it wasn't just assault by VPW but by LCM and other top leaders. Well - some weren't even "top leaders." And they weren't even all just American leaders. What I'm saying is that "Word over the World" aka Assault over the World, was just that. Assault over the (Way) World.
Twinky, you are so right!! I had no idea until I came to the GSC that so many women had been assaulted by VPW, LCM, CG, ect.
Hell, I had no idea of all the evil games that people played in Way
World. I think many of us were never told of what happened behind-the-scenes in various Twigs. Coming to the GSC, has been so eye-opening in so many ways!!!! Twinky, I was in Way World from 1978-1988. I met some really great people who wanted to live Godly lives, and asked for nothing in return. I know this because, I was one of those people. Twinky, when I first
read that so many women had gone thru hell in trying to live Godly lives, I felt so angry!!! I wanted to go to NK and p--s on VPW's grave. I felt so betrayed!!! Not only had I been betrayed, but I had been lied too for years, and years. Twinky, now I know that for so many of us in TWI, we had given so much, only to find out years later that we had been taken advantage of. Twinky, I felt so guilty that I gave my money to The Way for so long without knowing the evil ways it was being used.!!
I know God has forgiven me for this, but it was hard for me to forgive myself. When that woman described in detail, here in GSC, how she had been assaulted by one of the top men in TWI, I cried, and cried.!!! How could so much sin, and wickness be allowed to continue in TWI??!! If I had known
about about all the wickness going on in TWI, I would have left and taken my ABS with me!!! Twinky, I can not believe that so many people in leadership positions knew that women were being raped, and did NOTHING about it!!!!! How sick can people be??!! Now, I know why; it was always about the money!! Money,
lust, and power!! So many of the leaders of TWI craved these things. They did not care that so many people were hurt so badly just to give these a--holes what they wanted when they wanted it.
OMG!! How damn evil and sick can men be??!! Twinky, I have learned so much about the sinfulness of TWI since coming to the GSC. But, I wish I had known
back in 1978, what I know today about it. I would have gotten out much, much sooner!!
Twinky, I can not believe that so many people in leadership positions knew that women were being raped, and did NOTHING about it!!!!!
To put it bluntly, It wasn't all "so many" that knew. Which might cause one to ponder what sort of number or percentage the "very many" of those directly involved actually was. (Not that any should be thought insignificant or in some perverted way, acceptable.) It just might not be "as many," nor as universally condoned by those that were enthusiastically involved in the earlier days (say, the 1970's) of TWI as certain testimonies here at GSC might lead you to believe.
To put it bluntly, It wasn't all "so many" that knew. Which might cause one to ponder what sort of number or percentage the "very many" of those directly involved actually was. (Not that any should be thought insignificant or in some perverted way, acceptable.) It just might not be "as many," nor as universally condoned by those that were enthusiastically involved in the earlier days (say, the 1970's) of TWI as certain testimonies here at GSC might lead you to believe.
Minds self-conditioned to PFAL can't see the chicanery. A healthy person would. So how does one count who?
I wouldn't limit the knowledge of sever sexual misconduct to leadership. The rank and file could know as well. VPW's behavior is after all, just "rumors that have circulated since the 70s". So I've heard.
To put it bluntly, It wasn't all "so many" that knew. Which might cause one to ponder what sort of number or percentage the "very many" of those directly involved actually was. (Not that any should be thought insignificant or in some perverted way, acceptable.) It just might not be "as many," nor as universally condoned by those that were enthusiastically involved in the earlier days (say, the 1970's) of TWI as certain testimonies here at GSC might lead you to believe.
"What's the profit" that you get from attempting to play down or minimize the sociopathic behavior that pervaded twi? Do YOU have anything more than just what your mind imagines it was or could be? To far too big a degree, it was a rape culture at Way HQ. First hand accounts of survivors are included in this forum.
How feasible is it to attempt to prove a negative?
To put it bluntly, It wasn't all "so many" that knew. Which might cause one to ponder what sort of number or percentage the "very many" of those directly involved actually was. (Not that any should be thought insignificant or in some perverted way, acceptable.) It just might not be "as many," nor as universally condoned by those that were enthusiastically involved in the earlier days (say, the 1970's) of TWI as certain testimonies here at GSC might lead you to believe.
TLC, I am not sure if anyone will ever know who did what with whom. When I was involved with TWI, back in the 70's and 80's, it seemed as if everything in Way World, was just glorious!!! At least that was my perception. OMG, TLC when CG came out with his POOP paper in 1986, I was stunned!!! It never occurred to me
that trouble had been brewing among TWI top leadership. I was stationed in Newport, R.I. when CG's paper was read in a TWIG. WTF!! TLC, I had no idea of what was going on in other areas of Way World; Twigs in Newport were running classes, and believers were still supporting TWI with their time and money. I know, because I was one of them.
TLC, The Word was alive and moving, in Newport!! Twigs were still fun, and people were fellowshipping as often as possible. Then in the summer(?) of 86, I found out that what was happening in my little area of Way World, might not be happening in the rest of the country or overseas.! TLC, I had been blindsided, and it was painful!! Years later I came to the GSC, and learned that I still did not know all the sinfulness, and wickness that had happened throughout much of Way World, which I throught at one time, had been God's Ministry. God, how could I have been so wrong!! After coming to the GSC, I discovered I had no idea of the amount of evil that had taken place in TWI, while I was in!! I had no idea that so many people in the top rungs of TWI had committed so many sick, and perverted evils to others in God's name. How could this have happened to so many wonderful people who just wanted to live Godly lives??!! TLC,
I think I am finally learning "the real story" behind the fall of TWI, and so much of it stinks worse than a used diaper. But I keep coming back because I see so much love, and kindness here. I also see a lot of humor here!! No matter how my day went, I can always find something here at the GSC that leaves me in awe!! It is so comforting to come and learn the true heart of God!!
Who made you such an expert on the environment (or "culture," if you prefer) that existed at Way HQ back then?
Direct the question to yourself. Without ANY tangible anything, you made a comment that has one purpose: to say it wasn't as bad as the first hand testimony and accounts on GSC have described it.
You stated a claim but provided ZERO evidence or even description of conditions on which you based that claim.
So, the question applies to you, not me.
I'm not the expert. Those with first hand experiences that they dared to set forth at GSC ARE the experts on that experience and culture.
If you intend to refute those experts, you have to do more than just make a statement that it wasn't as bad as they led you to believe.
I was there, dimwit. And I wasn't refuting that certain things evidently happened (unbeknownst to the vast majority of staff and corps.) But, think or believe whatever you want.
OMG, TLC when CG came out with his POOP paper in 1986, I was stunned!!! It never occurred to me
that trouble had been brewing among TWI top leadership.
Yeah, I'd agree that it stunned a great majority. And I dare say that even those that knew (or strongly suspected) that something was awry couldn't put their finger on it and, for the most part, were oblivious to the depth or extent of errors and corruption that lay at the root of it. There are/were many layers to the onion once you start peeling things back.
I was there, dimwit. And I wasn't refuting that certain things evidently happened (unbeknownst to the vast majority of staff and corps.) But, think or believe whatever you want.
Dimwit? How nice of you to start with name calling at the first indication of your frustration.
"Being there?" You still did nothing other than make a vague statement and admit you had no clue.
That's still not evidence to back up your claim that it wasn't as bad as the first hand accounts set forth as evidence of the rape culture describe.
Nobody suggested that it was open knowledge that everybody had figured out. That doesn't mean it was less bad, just because you hadn't realized the problem.
I think the realization they were able to keep so much hidden speaks volumes about just how corrupt and deceptive the whole operation was.
One might be inclined to think the opposite would be true of communal living (and that it would be hard to keep secrets.) But from another perspective, perhaps the intensity of living so close to others actually contributed to the aura of reticence. Maybe there's more effort (because of the closeness) to tread lightly, and part of shielding yourself spills over onto shielding others. (Don't look too closely at me, because I'm not looking too closely at you.) Furthermore, putting many young (full of hormones) people together in such close quarters in that day and time all too easily lent itself towards occasional sexual... exploitations. In short, the opportunities for it were made easier than they would be otherwise. Though I'm not speaking from personal involvement in such (consensual, or so it was thought at the time) escapades, as far as I know incidents of such were never taken kindly to, nor spoken of, nor referred to in any way as being acceptable behavior, condoned or sanctioned by God, the scriptures, or TWI. Mixed into the known, unknown, and/or unreported consensual affairs (however many or few of these there were is nearly a mute point), were those souls trying to gain "an advantage" (for lack of a more universally applicable word) over some that were (or that might someday be) in "positions of power," as well as the egregious acts of certain "leaders" using their esteemed positions to take advantage of some that they supposed themselves to have some authority or control over. Motive can be a difficult and tricky thing to prove in a court of law. But had certain of these last to be mentioned come to light much sooner than they did, some might well have been convicted and jailed for such crimes.
Look the word up, if need be. If the shoe fits, wear it.
2 hours ago, Rocky said:
Nobody suggested that it was open knowledge that everybody had figured out.
Seems you probably missed the context that I posted within.
Or maybe you didn't use the words "rape culture" as commonly defined, or that I took it to mean.
One might be inclined to think the opposite would be true of communal living (and that it would be hard to keep secrets.) But from another perspective, perhaps the intensity of living so close to others actually contributed to the aura of reticence. Maybe there's more effort (because of the closeness) to tread lightly, and part of shielding yourself spills over onto shielding others. (Don't look too closely at me, because I'm not looking too closely at you.) Furthermore, putting many young (full of hormones) people together in such close quarters in that day and time all too easily lent itself towards occasional sexual... exploitations. In short, the opportunities for it were made easier than they would be otherwise. Though I'm not speaking from personal involvement in such (consensual, or so it was thought at the time) escapades, as far as I know incidents of such were never taken kindly to, nor spoken of, nor referred to in any way as being acceptable behavior, condoned or sanctioned by God, the scriptures, or TWI. Mixed into the known, unknown, and/or unreported consensual affairs (however many or few of these there were is nearly a mute point), were those souls trying to gain "an advantage" (for lack of a more universally applicable word) over some that were (or that might someday be) in "positions of power," as well as the egregious acts of certain "leaders" using their esteemed positions to take advantage of some that they supposed themselves to have some authority or control over. Motive can be a difficult and tricky thing to prove in a court of law. But had certain of these last to be mentioned come to light much sooner than they did, some might well have been convicted and jailed for such crimes.
you know . . . this could be a discussion about a nursing home
Look the word up, if need be. If the shoe fits, wear it.
Seems you probably missed the context that I posted within.
Or maybe you didn't use the words "rape culture" as commonly defined, or that I took it to mean.
Yeah, I know what dimwit means. The shoe doesn't fit. That's why I chose not to wear it when you first called me that name.
One might be inclined to think the opposite would be true of communal living (and that it would be hard to keep secrets.) But from another perspective, perhaps the intensity of living so close to others actually contributed to the aura of reticence. Maybe there's more effort (because of the closeness) to tread lightly, and part of shielding yourself spills over onto shielding others. (Don't look too closely at me, because I'm not looking too closely at you.) Furthermore, putting many young (full of hormones) people together in such close quarters in that day and time all too easily lent itself towards occasional sexual... exploitations. In short, the opportunities for it were made easier than they would be otherwise. Though I'm not speaking from personal involvement in such (consensual, or so it was thought at the time) escapades, as far as I know incidents of such were never taken kindly to, nor spoken of, nor referred to in any way as being acceptable behavior, condoned or sanctioned by God, the scriptures, or TWI. Mixed into the known, unknown, and/or unreported consensual affairs (however many or few of these there were is nearly a mute [did you mean "moot"] point), were those souls trying to gain "an advantage" (for lack of a more universally applicable word) over some that were (or that might someday be) in "positions of power," as well as the egregious acts of certain "leaders" using their esteemed positions to take advantage of some that they supposed themselves to have some authority or control over. Motive can be a difficult and tricky thing to prove in a court of law. But had certain of these last to be mentioned come to light much sooner than they did, some might well have been convicted and jailed for such crimes.
Vic was well past the age where he could reasonably be considered a "young person" when he more than occasionally exploited young women. Further, I doubt Vic even thought about having "authority over" those women. He generally framed it as giving them the opportunity to "bless" MOG, again, according to first hand accounts and the many records of how the traveling MOG was reverenced in every city he visited.
Are you self-aware enough to realize that your arguments on this subject are notably discordant?
The "subject" strayed well beyond its application and confinement to vpw, with implications that not only did many at HQ know (and/or should have known, had they half a brain), but that rape itself had blossomed into a widespread "cultural" situation there. But evidently you're so obsessed with pin the tail on the donkey, evidently that's all you care to see or talk about. So have fun with it, I have nothing further to say.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Well, the last time I checked, I was a woman who joined the Navy!! I love this poster!! Anyhow, to add my few pennies, I think VBW was a sick man!! A few years ago, a woman posted here at the Cafe
waysider
I think the realization they were able to keep so much hidden speaks volumes about just how corrupt and deceptive the whole operation was.
chockfull
"Was vpw a good man?" for God to decide - I don't own the scales of Justice. but you only need to insert one little adjective into that statement to make it one that resounds with a universa
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MRAP
It's a Hudson Bay blanket coat Ms. W is wearing. I had the blankets but never saw that coat available; the development of the coat goes back centuries.
Thanks for the correction DWBH. How could I have forgotten the B&W TV from the late 50's - no, was not around early enough to hear Jimmy on the radio but he was around in the early years of TV. Yep, this belongs on another forum.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Well, the last time I checked, I was a woman who joined the Navy!! I love this poster!! Anyhow, to add my few pennies, I think VBW was a sick man!! A few years ago, a woman posted here at the Cafe, and she described in detail how she had been sexually abused, by a top leader in TWI. OMG!!! IIRC, I think the man who abused her was VPW!!! I know she made me cry when she described in detail how this man( VPW?) had raped her!! I know some people here at the Spot may live in a different than mine, but the way she described her experience was heartbreaking. If she was making this up, shame on her; but I think it really happened to the poor woman!!! I had, a hard, hard time reading about her experience. It was so sad; she broke my heart!
How could any man do that to a woman??!! If a man did that to a young girl/ woman today, his azz would be in prison!! And this was just one woman describing her experience with a powerful TWI leader. It made me realize that several many, many people were abused by people in TWI; so many people who just wanted to love God, and help people were victimized by the leaders. I know that someday God will deal with all the evil people in, and out of TWI, but I was furious that so many people were so hurt!
Edited by Grace Valerie ClaireI missed a word.
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waysider
HeHe! I posted that in reference to a famous quote VPW made on his deathbed...."I wish I were the man I knew to be."
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Grace Valerie Claire
I know!!!
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Twinky
Grace, it wasn't just one woman who was raped or otherwise sexually assaulted by VPW. There were very many. Very many.
And it wasn't just assault by VPW but by LCM and other top leaders. Well - some weren't even "top leaders." And they weren't even all just American leaders. What I'm saying is that "Word over the World" aka Assault over the World, was just that. Assault over the (Way) World.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Twinky, you are so right!! I had no idea until I came to the GSC that so many women had been assaulted by VPW, LCM, CG, ect.
Hell, I had no idea of all the evil games that people played in Way
World. I think many of us were never told of what happened behind-the-scenes in various Twigs. Coming to the GSC, has been so eye-opening in so many ways!!!! Twinky, I was in Way World from 1978-1988. I met some really great people who wanted to live Godly lives, and asked for nothing in return. I know this because, I was one of those people. Twinky, when I first
read that so many women had gone thru hell in trying to live Godly lives, I felt so angry!!! I wanted to go to NK and p--s on VPW's grave. I felt so betrayed!!! Not only had I been betrayed, but I had been lied too for years, and years. Twinky, now I know that for so many of us in TWI, we had given so much, only to find out years later that we had been taken advantage of. Twinky, I felt so guilty that I gave my money to The Way for so long without knowing the evil ways it was being used.!!
I know God has forgiven me for this, but it was hard for me to forgive myself. When that woman described in detail, here in GSC, how she had been assaulted by one of the top men in TWI, I cried, and cried.!!! How could so much sin, and wickness be allowed to continue in TWI??!! If I had known
about about all the wickness going on in TWI, I would have left and taken my ABS with me!!! Twinky, I can not believe that so many people in leadership positions knew that women were being raped, and did NOTHING about it!!!!! How sick can people be??!! Now, I know why; it was always about the money!! Money,
lust, and power!! So many of the leaders of TWI craved these things. They did not care that so many people were hurt so badly just to give these a--holes what they wanted when they wanted it.
OMG!! How damn evil and sick can men be??!! Twinky, I have learned so much about the sinfulness of TWI since coming to the GSC. But, I wish I had known
back in 1978, what I know today about it. I would have gotten out much, much sooner!!
hell
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TLC
To put it bluntly, It wasn't all "so many" that knew. Which might cause one to ponder what sort of number or percentage the "very many" of those directly involved actually was. (Not that any should be thought insignificant or in some perverted way, acceptable.) It just might not be "as many," nor as universally condoned by those that were enthusiastically involved in the earlier days (say, the 1970's) of TWI as certain testimonies here at GSC might lead you to believe.
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Bolshevik
Minds self-conditioned to PFAL can't see the chicanery. A healthy person would. So how does one count who?
I wouldn't limit the knowledge of sever sexual misconduct to leadership. The rank and file could know as well. VPW's behavior is after all, just "rumors that have circulated since the 70s". So I've heard.
Edited by Bolshevikclarity
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Rocky
"What's the profit" that you get from attempting to play down or minimize the sociopathic behavior that pervaded twi? Do YOU have anything more than just what your mind imagines it was or could be? To far too big a degree, it was a rape culture at Way HQ. First hand accounts of survivors are included in this forum.
How feasible is it to attempt to prove a negative?
Just stop it.
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TLC
Who made you such an expert on the environment (or "culture," if you prefer) that existed at Way HQ back then?
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Grace Valerie Claire
TLC, I am not sure if anyone will ever know who did what with whom. When I was involved with TWI, back in the 70's and 80's, it seemed as if everything in Way World, was just glorious!!! At least that was my perception. OMG, TLC when CG came out with his POOP paper in 1986, I was stunned!!! It never occurred to me
that trouble had been brewing among TWI top leadership. I was stationed in Newport, R.I. when CG's paper was read in a TWIG. WTF!! TLC, I had no idea of what was going on in other areas of Way World; Twigs in Newport were running classes, and believers were still supporting TWI with their time and money. I know, because I was one of them.
TLC, The Word was alive and moving, in Newport!! Twigs were still fun, and people were fellowshipping as often as possible. Then in the summer(?) of 86, I found out that what was happening in my little area of Way World, might not be happening in the rest of the country or overseas.! TLC, I had been blindsided, and it was painful!! Years later I came to the GSC, and learned that I still did not know all the sinfulness, and wickness that had happened throughout much of Way World, which I throught at one time, had been God's Ministry. God, how could I have been so wrong!! After coming to the GSC, I discovered I had no idea of the amount of evil that had taken place in TWI, while I was in!! I had no idea that so many people in the top rungs of TWI had committed so many sick, and perverted evils to others in God's name. How could this have happened to so many wonderful people who just wanted to live Godly lives??!! TLC,
I think I am finally learning "the real story" behind the fall of TWI, and so much of it stinks worse than a used diaper. But I keep coming back because I see so much love, and kindness here. I also see a lot of humor here!! No matter how my day went, I can always find something here at the GSC that leaves me in awe!! It is so comforting to come and learn the true heart of God!!
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Rocky
Direct the question to yourself. Without ANY tangible anything, you made a comment that has one purpose: to say it wasn't as bad as the first hand testimony and accounts on GSC have described it.
Edited by RockyYou stated a claim but provided ZERO evidence or even description of conditions on which you based that claim.
So, the question applies to you, not me.
I'm not the expert. Those with first hand experiences that they dared to set forth at GSC ARE the experts on that experience and culture.
If you intend to refute those experts, you have to do more than just make a statement that it wasn't as bad as they led you to believe.
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TLC
I was there, dimwit. And I wasn't refuting that certain things evidently happened (unbeknownst to the vast majority of staff and corps.) But, think or believe whatever you want.
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TLC
Yeah, I'd agree that it stunned a great majority. And I dare say that even those that knew (or strongly suspected) that something was awry couldn't put their finger on it and, for the most part, were oblivious to the depth or extent of errors and corruption that lay at the root of it. There are/were many layers to the onion once you start peeling things back.
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waysider
I think the realization they were able to keep so much hidden speaks volumes about just how corrupt and deceptive the whole operation was.
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Rocky
Dimwit? How nice of you to start with name calling at the first indication of your frustration.
Edited by Rocky"Being there?" You still did nothing other than make a vague statement and admit you had no clue.
That's still not evidence to back up your claim that it wasn't as bad as the first hand accounts set forth as evidence of the rape culture describe.
Nobody suggested that it was open knowledge that everybody had figured out. That doesn't mean it was less bad, just because you hadn't realized the problem.
correct a typo
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TLC
One might be inclined to think the opposite would be true of communal living (and that it would be hard to keep secrets.) But from another perspective, perhaps the intensity of living so close to others actually contributed to the aura of reticence. Maybe there's more effort (because of the closeness) to tread lightly, and part of shielding yourself spills over onto shielding others. (Don't look too closely at me, because I'm not looking too closely at you.) Furthermore, putting many young (full of hormones) people together in such close quarters in that day and time all too easily lent itself towards occasional sexual... exploitations. In short, the opportunities for it were made easier than they would be otherwise. Though I'm not speaking from personal involvement in such (consensual, or so it was thought at the time) escapades, as far as I know incidents of such were never taken kindly to, nor spoken of, nor referred to in any way as being acceptable behavior, condoned or sanctioned by God, the scriptures, or TWI. Mixed into the known, unknown, and/or unreported consensual affairs (however many or few of these there were is nearly a mute point), were those souls trying to gain "an advantage" (for lack of a more universally applicable word) over some that were (or that might someday be) in "positions of power," as well as the egregious acts of certain "leaders" using their esteemed positions to take advantage of some that they supposed themselves to have some authority or control over. Motive can be a difficult and tricky thing to prove in a court of law. But had certain of these last to be mentioned come to light much sooner than they did, some might well have been convicted and jailed for such crimes.
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TLC
Look the word up, if need be. If the shoe fits, wear it.
Seems you probably missed the context that I posted within.
Edited by TLCOr maybe you didn't use the words "rape culture" as commonly defined, or that I took it to mean.
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Bolshevik
you know . . . this could be a discussion about a nursing home
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Rocky
Yeah, I know what dimwit means. The shoe doesn't fit. That's why I chose not to wear it when you first called me that name.
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Rocky
Vic was well past the age where he could reasonably be considered a "young person" when he more than occasionally exploited young women. Further, I doubt Vic even thought about having "authority over" those women. He generally framed it as giving them the opportunity to "bless" MOG, again, according to first hand accounts and the many records of how the traveling MOG was reverenced in every city he visited.
Edited by RockyAre you self-aware enough to realize that your arguments on this subject are notably discordant?
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Grace Valerie Claire
Waysider, I think you are right. I think so many of us "peons" had no idea how corrupt it was it really
was. I do not think it turned corrupt overnight; I wonder if VPW
started TWI as an organization to fulfill his own lusts. When did the
deceptions begin; or was TWI built
on decpetion after decpetion?
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TLC
The "subject" strayed well beyond its application and confinement to vpw, with implications that not only did many at HQ know (and/or should have known, had they half a brain), but that rape itself had blossomed into a widespread "cultural" situation there. But evidently you're so obsessed with pin the tail on the donkey, evidently that's all you care to see or talk about. So have fun with it, I have nothing further to say.
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Rocky
Thank you.
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