I'm not sure if this is what you're looking for.... "We are what we are today because of our believing." ... It goes on and on to explain the ludicrous, so-called, law of believing. It elaborates on how everything we receive in life is supposedly a result of our believing. In other words, we bring bad things to happen in our lives by virtue of our believing. So, when Wierwille was secretly administering date rape drugs to young Corps women, so that he could sexually violate them, it was really their own fault, not his, because they must have had a weakness in their believing that allowed it to happen........ Puke, puke and puke again!
Waysider ... I am sure it was in that part about believing... I remember it was a very direct statement that peple who were abused were responsible for it... I just can not remember it exactly word for word what he said... and it bothered me
... maybe it is one of those things where how I remember it is not very accurate.
Excie...After coming here to the cafe I have been very very thankful that I never ended up at Head quarters and in the direct line of fire of Weirwille as I am sure I would have been a target for this very reason... I was a victim of abuse and so I would have been an easy target if not for him then for someone else.
After I had my own children I came to understand how little I was when it all started and how I held absolutely no responsibility in what happened. That I could not have changed that outcome and that I did nothing to invite it. It was just such a blatant statment in the class. or maybe it was something about no matter your age you are responsible for it.
I have walked away from most of the TWI teachings or at least I hope I have, every once in a while I realise there is some other thing I took as ,truth, what was said and I shouldn't have.
a thinking process of blaming the victim is a sure sign of an abuser. i had to learn that in therapy and had to unlearn that is was my fault, and what my therapist used to begin the healing from the way international's abusive doctrine that blames the victim were the very words of jesus himself when he said "father forgive them for they know not what they do". being abused as a child is also being brainwashed into thinking patterns that cause a person to be a perpetual victim, and it takes years and even decades for a person to unlearn those thinking patterns. some of us never do and then you see our stories on the news.
That teaching was foundational in supporting abusive behavior and our acceptance for responsibility. I had forgotten that the source went so far back.
I remember being taught and believing that if my husband ever hit me...it was my fault for giving him reason :(
I remember being taught that being screamed at by leadership was my fault for not being sharp enough....Good grief...I cannot believe that I believed this.
I dont know if this is applicable to the thread or what you are looking for but I do remember the example that Wierwille taught of the child that was killed in a car accident .
In Wierwilles bizarre view it was the MOTHER's fault. She brought it on herself by her nervousness and apparently it had nothing at all to do with the driver of the out of control car.
I cant remember if he said it was a real story from one of his early churches or whether he made it up but that certainly is one hell of an awful thing to lay at the feet of an already suffering mother.
That was early on in the class and was foundational. Way theology had (has) a very strong blame the victim mentality..
You know, it just occurred to me that Wierwille might have been subconsciously using this to rationalize the time he sexually abused his own daughter. (Or, at least, claimed that he did.)
You know, it just occurred to me that Wierwille might have been subconsciously using this to rationalize the time he sexually abused his own daughter. (Or, at least, claimed that he did.)
Um, I must've missed this one. Wierwille claimed ot have sexually abused his own daughter? Please refresh me.
Um, I must've missed this one. Wierwille claimed ot have sexually abused his own daughter? Please refresh me.
Wierwille, on more than one occasion, in addressing small Corps groups,stated that he fondled his teenaged daughter, in a sexual manner, to teach her about sexuality. (I'm being purposefully vague about what he specifically described.) There are posters here, on Greasespot, who were personally present. I don't know if he actually did what he claimed. What I do know is that he made the claims.
Wierwille, on more than one occasion, in addressing small Corps groups,stated that he fondled his teenaged daughter, in a sexual manner, to teach her about sexuality. (I'm being purposefully vague about what he specifically described.) There are posters here, on Greasespot, who were personally present. I don't know if he actually did what he claimed. What I do know is that he made the claims.
i never knew this, but this sure does explain a whole lot! no wondering why there were groups of pedophiles that ran children's fellowships! and no wondering they did it without fear of anything being done about it! and no wondering why those of us who went to the authorities were hounded and hunted down and "prophesied" over about death to us and our children for being "unbelieving believers"! i never ever understood why supposedly ordained "ministers" could hear report after report of pedophilia running rampant and do nothing but call the children liars and "seed boys", but this information makes it perfectly clear now, and it explains why i heard the "let seeing eyes be blinded" prayer so much. even though i want to break down and weep, i also see more clearly how we were literally trapped and how any reports to the authorities got dropped, because our world was literally poisonous to anything and anybody that got even close, because now i am sure that all the adults were covering up for each other.
Wierwille, on more than one occasion, in addressing small Corps groups,stated that he fondled his teenaged daughter, in a sexual manner, to teach her about sexuality. (I'm being purposefully vague about what he specifically described.) There are posters here, on Greasespot, who were personally present. I don't know if he actually did what he claimed. What I do know is that he made the claims.
My Abuser used that same "excuse/ Reason" HE was teaching me about sexuality.
Never mind all the rest of the lies he filled my mind with that took years to overcome.
Worst of all is he managed to convince my own mother that it was all my fault. So yeah i believe from what you have said Waysider, that Weirwille did abuse his own daughter.. I am guessing too there was more to it than the fondeling.
He was a first rate bastard.
The more I think about what you have all said the more I realise how much of the class was about the victim being at fault for every bad thing that happens to them.
I guess it is not too surprising I got the impression weirwille was saying anyabuse was teh victims fault in light of the rest of the calss... weither he said it or some variation of it.
i never knew this, but this sure does explain a whole lot! no wondering why there were groups of pedophiles that ran children's fellowships! and no wondering they did it without fear of anything being done about it! and no wondering why those of us who went to the authorities were hounded and hunted down and "prophesied" over about death to us and our children for being "unbelieving believers"! i never ever understood why supposedly ordained "ministers" could hear report after report of pedophilia running rampant and do nothing but call the children liars and "seed boys", but this information makes it perfectly clear now, and it explains why i heard the "let seeing eyes be blinded" prayer so much. even though i want to break down and weep, i also see more clearly how we were literally trapped and how any reports to the authorities got dropped, because our world was literally poisonous to anything and anybody that got even close, because now i am sure that all the adults were covering up for each other.
Brainfixed... This makes me so sad... I taught childrens fellowship in our Twig... I loved the time i got to spend with the children... and I know what I did which was play games sing songs and pray with them. It makes me ill that anyone would do this to children and worse under the guise of being there to teach them about God.
I also get sick when I hear what you and some of the other kids who grew up in TWI endured.
I would hope that If any of it happened around me I would be Brave enough to stand up and stop it. I would hope I would be strong enough but it would have been very very hard.
I always hope there is some special hell or karma or something for Evil people. Some fitting punishment for them.
Any way sending hugs to you Brainy.
Edited to add taht when I was in TWI there were still relatively few children and there was not the wholesale control stuff going on... IT was there but not to the degree it moved to in later years. The childrens fellowship program was just getting off the ground. I think I had one fo the few groups at that time at least out west. My Hubby really was the one who encouraged me to run one. THey didn't have any materials I made my classes and stuff up all by myself.
I'm reminded from another thread about Joseph of the OT . . . In twi's family class from about 5 years ago . . . Mr. Coulter blamed Joseph for getting cornered by Potifer's wife and being thrown into jail. Joseph didn't do enough in advance to avoid the situation . . . so getting falsely accused and punished was his own fault.
I remember that, too, Bolshie. Once again, anything bad that happens is YOUR fault unless you are in the upper eschelon of TWI leadership AND you are in good graces with Rosie (they call it "being in fellowship" or "alignment and harmony) in which case it is because you are STANDING ON THE WORD and the adversary is attacking you.
to set the record clearly, i was in an all girls night owl when wierwille shared about teaching his young daughter about being with a man. he compared it to some ancient tribe or something -- you know, where they need to learn it or how else will they know how to be with a man? ohmygod it's been so many years
i know more on this subject from doop who was in the way before i was
it's all very sad
and sadly -- having heard something similar from my childhood abuser -- i didn't leave
but i certainly got sick
----
i also heard from someone who honestly knew for a fact about a children's fellowship coodinator who was a pedophile
ugh ugh ugh
i can't imagine being a child in that situation -- well, i can, because i was in my family
but i thought the way would be my godly rescue, but by then i was already in 19 or something
just looking back on so many things and now they make so much sense because of this piece of information, i mean even the very fact of vp's drive to form his own religion and money machine makes sense to me now because i think about his wife and children and how in the he!! else was he going to get them to shut up and fall in line after what he had done? now that i have this piece of information i know without doubt that the very idea that popped into vp's brain to form the monster he formed was after all just another way of covering his tracks, so it was all, every single bit of it, every word written and spoken that fell from his brain, it was all just a way to cover his tracks. a scam.
and that is oddly freeing for me because now i know that those in my family that it seems like they just can't let go of vp's mentality towards life is because they won't let go of the life they know they need to cover up.
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waysider
I'm not sure if this is what you're looking for.... "We are what we are today because of our believing." ... It goes on and on to explain the ludicrous, so-called, law of believing. It elaborates on how everything we receive in life is supposedly a result of our believing. In other words, we bring bad things to happen in our lives by virtue of our believing. So, when Wierwille was secretly administering date rape drugs to young Corps women, so that he could sexually violate them, it was really their own fault, not his, because they must have had a weakness in their believing that allowed it to happen........ Puke, puke and puke again!
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excathedra
i am not sure about what was said in "the class"
i know definitely that my past child abuse made me a target -- but i don't see that as my fault
when wierwille said he would heal me from past sexual abuse, i think that was very sick
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leafytwiglet
Waysider ... I am sure it was in that part about believing... I remember it was a very direct statement that peple who were abused were responsible for it... I just can not remember it exactly word for word what he said... and it bothered me
... maybe it is one of those things where how I remember it is not very accurate.
Excie...After coming here to the cafe I have been very very thankful that I never ended up at Head quarters and in the direct line of fire of Weirwille as I am sure I would have been a target for this very reason... I was a victim of abuse and so I would have been an easy target if not for him then for someone else.
After I had my own children I came to understand how little I was when it all started and how I held absolutely no responsibility in what happened. That I could not have changed that outcome and that I did nothing to invite it. It was just such a blatant statment in the class. or maybe it was something about no matter your age you are responsible for it.
I have walked away from most of the TWI teachings or at least I hope I have, every once in a while I realise there is some other thing I took as ,truth, what was said and I shouldn't have.
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brainfixed
a thinking process of blaming the victim is a sure sign of an abuser. i had to learn that in therapy and had to unlearn that is was my fault, and what my therapist used to begin the healing from the way international's abusive doctrine that blames the victim were the very words of jesus himself when he said "father forgive them for they know not what they do". being abused as a child is also being brainwashed into thinking patterns that cause a person to be a perpetual victim, and it takes years and even decades for a person to unlearn those thinking patterns. some of us never do and then you see our stories on the news.
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rascal
That teaching was foundational in supporting abusive behavior and our acceptance for responsibility. I had forgotten that the source went so far back.
I remember being taught and believing that if my husband ever hit me...it was my fault for giving him reason :(
I remember being taught that being screamed at by leadership was my fault for not being sharp enough....Good grief...I cannot believe that I believed this.
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mstar1
I dont know if this is applicable to the thread or what you are looking for but I do remember the example that Wierwille taught of the child that was killed in a car accident .
In Wierwilles bizarre view it was the MOTHER's fault. She brought it on herself by her nervousness and apparently it had nothing at all to do with the driver of the out of control car.
I cant remember if he said it was a real story from one of his early churches or whether he made it up but that certainly is one hell of an awful thing to lay at the feet of an already suffering mother.
That was early on in the class and was foundational. Way theology had (has) a very strong blame the victim mentality..
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waysider
You know, it just occurred to me that Wierwille might have been subconsciously using this to rationalize the time he sexually abused his own daughter. (Or, at least, claimed that he did.)
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shortfuse
Um, I must've missed this one. Wierwille claimed ot have sexually abused his own daughter? Please refresh me.
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chockfull
This is the single characteristic that is the most damaging cult behavior.
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waysider
Wierwille, on more than one occasion, in addressing small Corps groups,stated that he fondled his teenaged daughter, in a sexual manner, to teach her about sexuality. (I'm being purposefully vague about what he specifically described.) There are posters here, on Greasespot, who were personally present. I don't know if he actually did what he claimed. What I do know is that he made the claims.
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brainfixed
i never knew this, but this sure does explain a whole lot! no wondering why there were groups of pedophiles that ran children's fellowships! and no wondering they did it without fear of anything being done about it! and no wondering why those of us who went to the authorities were hounded and hunted down and "prophesied" over about death to us and our children for being "unbelieving believers"! i never ever understood why supposedly ordained "ministers" could hear report after report of pedophilia running rampant and do nothing but call the children liars and "seed boys", but this information makes it perfectly clear now, and it explains why i heard the "let seeing eyes be blinded" prayer so much. even though i want to break down and weep, i also see more clearly how we were literally trapped and how any reports to the authorities got dropped, because our world was literally poisonous to anything and anybody that got even close, because now i am sure that all the adults were covering up for each other.
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leafytwiglet
My Abuser used that same "excuse/ Reason" HE was teaching me about sexuality.
Never mind all the rest of the lies he filled my mind with that took years to overcome.
Worst of all is he managed to convince my own mother that it was all my fault. So yeah i believe from what you have said Waysider, that Weirwille did abuse his own daughter.. I am guessing too there was more to it than the fondeling.
He was a first rate bastard.
The more I think about what you have all said the more I realise how much of the class was about the victim being at fault for every bad thing that happens to them.
I guess it is not too surprising I got the impression weirwille was saying anyabuse was teh victims fault in light of the rest of the calss... weither he said it or some variation of it.
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leafytwiglet
Brainfixed... This makes me so sad... I taught childrens fellowship in our Twig... I loved the time i got to spend with the children... and I know what I did which was play games sing songs and pray with them. It makes me ill that anyone would do this to children and worse under the guise of being there to teach them about God.
I also get sick when I hear what you and some of the other kids who grew up in TWI endured.
I would hope that If any of it happened around me I would be Brave enough to stand up and stop it. I would hope I would be strong enough but it would have been very very hard.
I always hope there is some special hell or karma or something for Evil people. Some fitting punishment for them.
Any way sending hugs to you Brainy.
Edited to add taht when I was in TWI there were still relatively few children and there was not the wholesale control stuff going on... IT was there but not to the degree it moved to in later years. The childrens fellowship program was just getting off the ground. I think I had one fo the few groups at that time at least out west. My Hubby really was the one who encouraged me to run one. THey didn't have any materials I made my classes and stuff up all by myself.
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Bolshevik
I'm reminded from another thread about Joseph of the OT . . . In twi's family class from about 5 years ago . . . Mr. Coulter blamed Joseph for getting cornered by Potifer's wife and being thrown into jail. Joseph didn't do enough in advance to avoid the situation . . . so getting falsely accused and punished was his own fault.
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JavaJane
I remember that, too, Bolshie. Once again, anything bad that happens is YOUR fault unless you are in the upper eschelon of TWI leadership AND you are in good graces with Rosie (they call it "being in fellowship" or "alignment and harmony) in which case it is because you are STANDING ON THE WORD and the adversary is attacking you.
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excathedra
to set the record clearly, i was in an all girls night owl when wierwille shared about teaching his young daughter about being with a man. he compared it to some ancient tribe or something -- you know, where they need to learn it or how else will they know how to be with a man? ohmygod it's been so many years
i know more on this subject from doop who was in the way before i was
it's all very sad
and sadly -- having heard something similar from my childhood abuser -- i didn't leave
but i certainly got sick
----
i also heard from someone who honestly knew for a fact about a children's fellowship coodinator who was a pedophile
ugh ugh ugh
i can't imagine being a child in that situation -- well, i can, because i was in my family
but i thought the way would be my godly rescue, but by then i was already in 19 or something
i can't fathom being a child looking up to
oh never mind
it's all the fruccckkking same, isn't it?
but worse for little ones
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brainfixed
just looking back on so many things and now they make so much sense because of this piece of information, i mean even the very fact of vp's drive to form his own religion and money machine makes sense to me now because i think about his wife and children and how in the he!! else was he going to get them to shut up and fall in line after what he had done? now that i have this piece of information i know without doubt that the very idea that popped into vp's brain to form the monster he formed was after all just another way of covering his tracks, so it was all, every single bit of it, every word written and spoken that fell from his brain, it was all just a way to cover his tracks. a scam.
and that is oddly freeing for me because now i know that those in my family that it seems like they just can't let go of vp's mentality towards life is because they won't let go of the life they know they need to cover up.
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