quote:The surprise ending to CF & X was that masturbation was the "apple", the origional sin. Where did he get THAT from?
In cf&s, vpw said trees were representative of genetalia. Therefore the fruit that man partook of was wacking his own willie. lcm later said that vpw was close, but not on the money. I guess that's why he reworked the story to homosexuality. It was lcm's soap box, so why not make it homosexuality?--> Boy, those two men will have a lot of answering to do. They twisted it all up.
I'm still kind of new at this here coffee shop so I'm trying some of the things that have been on the menu for awhile. I stumbled on this discussion of CFS from a couple years ago. I was involved with this class both as a student and as an instructor. Now to clarify for any non twi reading this, an instructor is one who is responsible for such things as setting up chairs, finding a location to run the class, introduce the taped session and so on and so on. It is not someone who actually "instructs" in the true sense of the word. The one thing that most appals me about this class in retrospect is that when the so called "DR." ventured into a discussion of THE ORINAL SIN he prefaced his his dissertation with something like "I have no scriptural proof. You will just have to trust me on this . I believe this is what GOD has shown me". This ,of course is a paraphrase as it has been alot of years since I heard him say this. NO SCRIPTURE----YOU JUST HAVE TO TRUST ME. And trust we did because we thought he had an inside track. Now this is a very large question that has lurked in mens minds for millenia. He then went on to state that THE ORIGINAL SIN was not only masturbation but the physical consumption of the resultant "fruit". NO SCRIPTURE______YOU JUST HAVE TO TRUST ME. I should have packed my bags right then and there but I figured anyone who was that "tight" with GOD should be heeded. NO SCRIPTURE ---------YOU JUST HAVE TO TRUST ME! lol (@ myself)!
thinking,thinking,thinking.--------For aclass that was presented by a so called biblical research ministry, why was there such a disproportionate amount of secular material? At one point VPW rattled off a string of one line "gems of wisdom" longer than The Great Wall of CHINA. "NO SCRIPTURE----- YOU JUST HAVE TO TRUST ME". If the lowly twig leader ever tried to interject a quote from Shakespeare, he/she would be hammered into submission with reproof for quoting a profane source. I can't prove this,YOU JUST HAVE TO TRUST ME!
The one thing that most appals me about this class in retrospect is that when the so called "DR." ventured into a discussion of THE ORINAL SIN he prefaced his his dissertation with something like "I have no scriptural proof. You will just have to trust me on this . I believe this is what GOD has shown me". This ,of course is a paraphrase as it has been alot of years since I heard him say this. NO SCRIPTURE----YOU JUST HAVE TO TRUST ME. And trust we did because we thought he had an inside track.
Some highlights from the other thread....
(pg-1-pg-8)
Zix:
"CF&S was an unusual class--they didn't give a syllabus when I took it. The first part was the "Family" part, man head of household, children unruly, etc. Those verses and the like.
Second part was the sex part. VP runs through all these slang terms for genitalia because "you can't minister to someone if you don't understand what they're talking about" Roll Eyes (Hello? Word of Knowledge, anyone? Oh well...) He shows diagrams of all sorts of different breast and penis shapes (which drew laughter from the women in my class, "Look, honey! There's yours!" (My TC's wife)) Mrs. Wierwille is there and she looks embarrassed and miserable, wanting to be anywhere in the world but on that set. He has Dr. Winegarner talk about some physiology, tells women how to spit-lubricate their partner if necessary, makes an offhand reference about masturbation preferable to being unblessed with sex, etc., etc.
Ick. I feel like I need a shower just remembering all that stuff. My TC told me VP used to use married Corps people for live demonstrations of the positions, but had to stop because it was freaking the students out. Don't know if that's true, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was."
WhiteDove:
"The CF&S class filmed in 1974 was a video version of the early live camps.The sessions are:
1. The way of a man with a maid,man wonderfully made ,attitudes toward sex
2. The threefold cord, The Virtuous Woman
3. I Corinthians 7:1..ff The original sin
4. Anticipation,Realization, Memory, New Morality, general anatomy and language barrier(Dr. covers slang terms for male & female parts and sex ect.)
7. Art of dating responsibilities of Men & Woman , Question and answer session.
Lots of good pictures of Tick the wonder dog."
"They did not give out syllabus except for a scripture sheet and a handout on The Virtuous Woman. The Corps classes did have a syllabus about 40 pages and as Im looking the ever present Final exam. also a instructers guide."
Mr P-Mosh:
"I can verify what Zixar said. I didn't get a syllabus either, but I did take notes, which I don't know if I still have or not. I just thought it was weird for VPW to be going through all the slang terms like that; I had always thought of him as grandfatherly but I think sitting through CF&S changed my mind towards him being like a dirty old man."
Goey:
"CF&S was a sneaky little class where VPW slyly taught his personal preferences and perversions for sex as if they were the defacto standard.
VPW taught that a man's penis was beautiful and magnificant while a woman's vagina was ugly. I'll bet old Vee Pee never knew how to sexuall satisfy a woman, or never really cared to know. He was into getting his own satisifaction - taking care of the Man of God.
He taught in this class that" the way to a man's heart was through his penis", opening the door for premarital and promiscous sex and to women trying to get a man's heart by taking care of that magnificant and beautiful penis. Well, we know what got to old Vee Pee's heart now don't we?
Don't recall if he taught how to get to a woman's heart - but it certainly was not through her vagina because that thing is ugly. Best not look at it.
It was also a class that subtly made men superior to women in most every way.
This class was about VPW's disdain for women, relegating them to sexual and domestic servants of men.
I never took this class seriously.
WordWolf:
"A) It was the only class where 7 sessions made for a 2-page syllabus.
That should be a sign that it's a little sparse on substance.
B) It's the only class I ever took where I was embarrassed of the name.
"I have to head out-I have a Bible study class tonight."
"Really? What on?"
"Um, Christian Family."
C) The "original sin", Proverbs 31:10ff was covered, as was
I Corinthians 7:1ff was also covered.
How he could read I Corinthians 7:2, commit adultery many times, and look
himself in the mirror is beyond me.
D) Everyone remembers the session with all the slang terms. It seemed to
relax us a little, since you can't be embarassed while laughing, but
other than that, wasn't necessary.
E) It was largely a Sex Ed or "Hygiene" class. Complete with photos
and illustrations.
F) I honestly don't remember vpw's comments mentioned above.
I do remember (and even back then, others had commented) how beautiful he
thought a woman's funbags are. (Funbags, you know, Thelma and Louise.)
G) I remember him saying a few things here and there about various
sex topics. The most off-the-wall ones will stay with me till I die.
Like, how a man wants a woman who's a bit of an angel and a devil-
an angel in public, and a devil in the bedroom.
Or, concerning one position I have no intention of trying,
"ever couple probably tries it at some point".
To which, I say, "Ew, ew, ew, ew, ew." If someone out there has tried it,
DON'T TELL ME. I do NOT want to know.
And of course, in my class, he described-but did NOT show-
that pornographic video with 2 women and a dog. He said the dog was trying
to get away from the women, which showed it had more sense than they did.
THANKS FOR SHARING. WHY did I need to know ANYTHING about that video?
Was that instructive in some way?
H) One of the main points, one that was repeated in several sessions,
was the destigmatizing of sex as "dirty".
Oddly enough, the proper place of a sex life in a MARRIAGE and not as
OUTSIDE a marriage seemed not to be repeated in several sessions.
Strange sorting of priorities for a Christian class.
I) Of course, the one thing that I still find TRULY bizarre was that wierd
"casualwear" outfit he wore teaching that class.
I can understand getting out of the suit, but was that thing actually worn
in PUBLIC? That thing was uglier than a leisure suit!
J) The hero of that class was Tick.
Anything else you want to know?
Kudos to whoever managed a session breakdown-my goal was to just get thru it."
Pirate:
"This class was the beginning of the end for me in twi. It was just so ridiculous.
The long list of slang terms was very educational. I learned a lot I had never heard before. "Taking the dirt road" is the one that has always stuck in my mind, no matter how hard I've tried to get it out of there.
Of course everybody remembers the pictures right out of "101 Sexual Positions." Basically, they were just cheap black & white 50s-60s era pornography. I can remember VP pointing out one that was supposed to the best for getting the deepest penetration. Thanks, Doctor.
I don't know if they did this in every class, but at the end we were supposed to answer a list of questions like "How old were you the first time you had sex?" "Have you ever had a homosexual/lesbian experience?" "Have you ever participated in oral sex, anal sex, group sex, etc. etc. etc." This was supposed to be anonymous and for "research purposes" but it was pretty bizarre and I really wonder what they really did with those.
The weirdest thing for me though was the whole "original sin was masturbation" teaching. When we broke up into our little discussion groups after that one, I remember asking the other people if they really believed that and they all did. Our group leader said something like "We might not understand it all but Dr. Weirwille does and that's good enough for me." What a crock. I was on the way out the door after that."
diazbro:
"At the time (75 or so) we in my area were all young with an abundance of hormones so it made sense that there might be a class to deal with this topic. On the other hand no one in the room needed an explanation on slang or needed to see pictures of dongs."
" CF&S was some half-a$$ed stab at trying to make recommendations on how a christian should
approach the topic of sex but it failed as it didn't deal extensively with issues such as
sex before marriage and/or adultery which are only two of the more obvious issues."
Trefor Heywood:
"It was far more about sex than the Christian Family."
"The class did seem to be fairly denigrating towards women.
"I remember VPW using a phrase like
"A wife should be an angel in the kitchen and a whore in the bedroom".
When she wasn't cooking, was he renting Dotsie out?"
Wow 76-78:
"It seems to me that I came away from that class with a distinct sense
that it was mainly directed at the women.
-How she should treat her man (we're just little boys, all grown up).
How she shouldn't nag at him, how she should look pretty for him,
she should have sexy nighties set aside for special times,
she should have the home peaceful for him when he comes home from work,
etc, etc.
But I must add that I (myself) also thought that if a man was to receive
such adoration from a woman, he must be doing something to deserve it.
This was my take on it, I could not imagine someone getting this kind of
treatment just because that is the way it is supposed to be.
Looking back, I now see how lopsided the teachings and exhortations were.
I think it is in this class where he makes statements like
"there is no clear cut teaching about fornication in the New Testament"
and "if you knew the freedom you had in Christ, it would blow your minds".
These statements, made in this class setting, clarified the meaning of
the statement made in plaf:
'love God, love your neighbor and do as you damn fool please'
Makes ya wonder if vpw had an agenda, huh?"
Zix:
"Yes, VP taught that crap about the Original Sin being masturbation (i.e. must have been a banana, not an apple...) in CF&S. Fortunately, right before the segment started, our Limb C stood up and said "The biblical evidence for this next segment is still under review, so don't take it as set in stone." Not surprising that he didn't stick around long after LCM's "Obey or Die" letter...
Apparently, VP took the phrase with the Serpent showing Eve that the fruit of the tree was a thing "to be desired" and declared it meant "to be desired sexually". Funny, then, as how masturbation is not mentioned again in the Levitical cleanliness laws, although it does go out of its way to legislate that you can't touch the saddle upon which a menstruating woman has sat.
Must have been an oversight... :blink: "
Dot Matrix:
"I took the class more than once, maybe three times. I NEVER understood how VP got "masterbation" from scripture.
I found that class to be in poor taste. Now, looking back, it was about old horny men having a great time at the expense of young believers.
Why did he think he needed to teach such smut to young adults? We already learned about it in school or with our own experiences. It was inappropriate.
Never understood the masterbation stuff, but then I never understood "corps night" I used to sit there like I was in a foreign country unfamilar with the language.
I still thnk VP used our "birth to the corps" papers as "beat-off material." (Some had some racey things written in it.)
In CF&S, I bet VP watched us through a little peep hole, through which he peeked and played "yankee doodle" on his dandy."
"If I believe TWI was OKAY then went bad, I feel better about me.... Then, I was not REALLY deceived, I got into a GOOD ministry and it went bad.
To recognize VPW was a sexual pervert who took us all for a ride --- means you have to deal with yourself/myself/ourselves in understanding we WERE THAT tricked!!! That deceived!!!! That taken advantage of!!!
To say VPW taught some good Bible is like saying John Wayne Gacey wasn't all bad because he could paint."
WayferNot:
"I first took this class when I was a youngin (19 yrs old). I scratched my head about masturbation being the original sin. But then when veepee tried to teach women how to masturbate, I really scratched my head. I thought now if Adam and Eve did it and got booted from the Garden of Eden, why it is OK to do it now? And then the suggestion he gave to women on how to masturbate was not a good one.
In case you are wondering, he said that women/girls needed instruction because they weren't as knowledgeable in this area. (Go figure.) I don't remember needing any lesson on this. I guess he thought that because he thought women were more reserved in this category of life. He said men/boys didn't need it because their hands always found their way to that part of the body."
"I do know VPW taught a live Christian Family & Sex class in lower NY.
He showed a clip of a porn at it called "DOG Day Afternoon" Well need I say what it was about ?!
I was shocked when I first heard this and it was used as an example to demonstrate how the devil perverted the beauty of sex. I think it was in the early 70's & it was much to much for the students at this camp where they met . It really freaked some of the students so it was never repeated again.
Are there any early day wayfers who were there ? I remebered that reading this thread &
the person I know that took it was a teenager at the time !
Anyone here ever hear about this.
I don't think I would want this ask this person now to recall that memoery so I'll you my friends on the "talk radio of ex-wayfers' to comment! I better "renew my mind" so I can get this posting out of my head now !!!!!!"
Skeptical Texan:
"If I had been one of a victim of his sexual appetites, perhaps I, too, would ascribe his motive for offering CFS to his sexual lusts.
But I don't think it was that. I ascribe his motive for offering to CFS to revenue generation.
Seriously, I think the purpose of CFS, and TWI generally, was to make money. VPW may have been evil, but he wasn't stupid. VPW's sexual appetites, and whatever scriptural justifications he made related to them, had to be kept private or any normal person would have left. Then he'd lose the money and access to young women.
Promiscuous behaviors and the doctrines justifying them were lockbox for Corps and other Wayfer insiders. I certainly was never privy to them and I don't recall any such justification in CFS (and, being single, I was listening carefully.)"
Valerie:
"I thought the class was disgusting. I also felt, as GOEY does that it was a class for VP to get every woman in the mind frame to worship the men's penis, thus ATEMPTING to make us promiscious.
It only ....ed me off. I also felt that he was very demeaning to women and I just hated the class. It depressed me and made me cry every f***ing time. I think I had to suffer throught it maybe 3-4 times.
Then of course I cannot forget the wife who's name rymes with Boynihan, that told me that we are here only to give pleasure to our man even if it hurts. what a stupid b***tch."
as far as i am concerned that class was nothing less than perverted and embaressing we were forced to take it with all of ouir friends and familie very young teens
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Nottawayfer
In cf&s, vpw said trees were representative of genetalia. Therefore the fruit that man partook of was wacking his own willie. lcm later said that vpw was close, but not on the money. I guess that's why he reworked the story to homosexuality. It was lcm's soap box, so why not make it homosexuality?
--> Boy, those two men will have a lot of answering to do. They twisted it all up.
Laughter is a tranquilizer with no side effects.
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Don'tFenceMeIn
I still remember that VERY UNCOMFORTABLE, even MORDIFIED look on Mrs. Wierwille's face at the end and wondering WHY???????
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Don'tFenceMeIn
To answer the question if I thought it was any good, well, I thought it was DIFFERENT...
[This message was edited by Don'tFenceMeIn on January 08, 2004 at 8:24.]
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Don'tFenceMeIn
I still remember that VERY UNCOMFORTABLE, even MORDIFIED look on Mrs. Wierwille's face at the end and wondering WHY???????
Just my opinion, y'all, but I don't think Mrs. Wierwille was happy about this class a tall!
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waysider
I'm still kind of new at this here coffee shop so I'm trying some of the things that have been on the menu for awhile. I stumbled on this discussion of CFS from a couple years ago. I was involved with this class both as a student and as an instructor. Now to clarify for any non twi reading this, an instructor is one who is responsible for such things as setting up chairs, finding a location to run the class, introduce the taped session and so on and so on. It is not someone who actually "instructs" in the true sense of the word. The one thing that most appals me about this class in retrospect is that when the so called "DR." ventured into a discussion of THE ORINAL SIN he prefaced his his dissertation with something like "I have no scriptural proof. You will just have to trust me on this . I believe this is what GOD has shown me". This ,of course is a paraphrase as it has been alot of years since I heard him say this. NO SCRIPTURE----YOU JUST HAVE TO TRUST ME. And trust we did because we thought he had an inside track. Now this is a very large question that has lurked in mens minds for millenia. He then went on to state that THE ORIGINAL SIN was not only masturbation but the physical consumption of the resultant "fruit". NO SCRIPTURE______YOU JUST HAVE TO TRUST ME. I should have packed my bags right then and there but I figured anyone who was that "tight" with GOD should be heeded. NO SCRIPTURE ---------YOU JUST HAVE TO TRUST ME! lol (@ myself)!
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waysider
thinking,thinking,thinking.--------For aclass that was presented by a so called biblical research ministry, why was there such a disproportionate amount of secular material? At one point VPW rattled off a string of one line "gems of wisdom" longer than The Great Wall of CHINA. "NO SCRIPTURE----- YOU JUST HAVE TO TRUST ME". If the lowly twig leader ever tried to interject a quote from Shakespeare, he/she would be hammered into submission with reproof for quoting a profane source. I can't prove this,YOU JUST HAVE TO TRUST ME!
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WordWolf
Some highlights from the other thread....
(pg-1-pg-8)
Zix:
"CF&S was an unusual class--they didn't give a syllabus when I took it. The first part was the "Family" part, man head of household, children unruly, etc. Those verses and the like.
Second part was the sex part. VP runs through all these slang terms for genitalia because "you can't minister to someone if you don't understand what they're talking about" Roll Eyes (Hello? Word of Knowledge, anyone? Oh well...) He shows diagrams of all sorts of different breast and penis shapes (which drew laughter from the women in my class, "Look, honey! There's yours!" (My TC's wife)) Mrs. Wierwille is there and she looks embarrassed and miserable, wanting to be anywhere in the world but on that set. He has Dr. Winegarner talk about some physiology, tells women how to spit-lubricate their partner if necessary, makes an offhand reference about masturbation preferable to being unblessed with sex, etc., etc.
Ick. I feel like I need a shower just remembering all that stuff. My TC told me VP used to use married Corps people for live demonstrations of the positions, but had to stop because it was freaking the students out. Don't know if that's true, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was."
WhiteDove:
"The CF&S class filmed in 1974 was a video version of the early live camps.The sessions are:
1. The way of a man with a maid,man wonderfully made ,attitudes toward sex
2. The threefold cord, The Virtuous Woman
3. I Corinthians 7:1..ff The original sin
4. Anticipation,Realization, Memory, New Morality, general anatomy and language barrier(Dr. covers slang terms for male & female parts and sex ect.)
5. Male & Female anatomy
6. Childbirth,lovemaking, birth control,masterbation
7. Art of dating responsibilities of Men & Woman , Question and answer session.
Lots of good pictures of Tick the wonder dog."
"They did not give out syllabus except for a scripture sheet and a handout on The Virtuous Woman. The Corps classes did have a syllabus about 40 pages and as Im looking the ever present Final exam. also a instructers guide."
Mr P-Mosh:
"I can verify what Zixar said. I didn't get a syllabus either, but I did take notes, which I don't know if I still have or not. I just thought it was weird for VPW to be going through all the slang terms like that; I had always thought of him as grandfatherly but I think sitting through CF&S changed my mind towards him being like a dirty old man."
Goey:
"CF&S was a sneaky little class where VPW slyly taught his personal preferences and perversions for sex as if they were the defacto standard.
VPW taught that a man's penis was beautiful and magnificant while a woman's vagina was ugly. I'll bet old Vee Pee never knew how to sexuall satisfy a woman, or never really cared to know. He was into getting his own satisifaction - taking care of the Man of God.
He taught in this class that" the way to a man's heart was through his penis", opening the door for premarital and promiscous sex and to women trying to get a man's heart by taking care of that magnificant and beautiful penis. Well, we know what got to old Vee Pee's heart now don't we?
Don't recall if he taught how to get to a woman's heart - but it certainly was not through her vagina because that thing is ugly. Best not look at it.
It was also a class that subtly made men superior to women in most every way.
This class was about VPW's disdain for women, relegating them to sexual and domestic servants of men.
I never took this class seriously.
WordWolf:
"A) It was the only class where 7 sessions made for a 2-page syllabus.
That should be a sign that it's a little sparse on substance.
B) It's the only class I ever took where I was embarrassed of the name.
"I have to head out-I have a Bible study class tonight."
"Really? What on?"
"Um, Christian Family."
C) The "original sin", Proverbs 31:10ff was covered, as was
I Corinthians 7:1ff was also covered.
How he could read I Corinthians 7:2, commit adultery many times, and look
himself in the mirror is beyond me.
D) Everyone remembers the session with all the slang terms. It seemed to
relax us a little, since you can't be embarassed while laughing, but
other than that, wasn't necessary.
E) It was largely a Sex Ed or "Hygiene" class. Complete with photos
and illustrations.
F) I honestly don't remember vpw's comments mentioned above.
I do remember (and even back then, others had commented) how beautiful he
thought a woman's funbags are. (Funbags, you know, Thelma and Louise.)
G) I remember him saying a few things here and there about various
sex topics. The most off-the-wall ones will stay with me till I die.
Like, how a man wants a woman who's a bit of an angel and a devil-
an angel in public, and a devil in the bedroom.
Or, concerning one position I have no intention of trying,
"ever couple probably tries it at some point".
To which, I say, "Ew, ew, ew, ew, ew." If someone out there has tried it,
DON'T TELL ME. I do NOT want to know.
And of course, in my class, he described-but did NOT show-
that pornographic video with 2 women and a dog. He said the dog was trying
to get away from the women, which showed it had more sense than they did.
THANKS FOR SHARING. WHY did I need to know ANYTHING about that video?
Was that instructive in some way?
H) One of the main points, one that was repeated in several sessions,
was the destigmatizing of sex as "dirty".
Oddly enough, the proper place of a sex life in a MARRIAGE and not as
OUTSIDE a marriage seemed not to be repeated in several sessions.
Strange sorting of priorities for a Christian class.
I) Of course, the one thing that I still find TRULY bizarre was that wierd
"casualwear" outfit he wore teaching that class.
I can understand getting out of the suit, but was that thing actually worn
in PUBLIC? That thing was uglier than a leisure suit!
J) The hero of that class was Tick.
Anything else you want to know?
Kudos to whoever managed a session breakdown-my goal was to just get thru it."
Pirate:
"This class was the beginning of the end for me in twi. It was just so ridiculous.
The long list of slang terms was very educational. I learned a lot I had never heard before. "Taking the dirt road" is the one that has always stuck in my mind, no matter how hard I've tried to get it out of there.
Of course everybody remembers the pictures right out of "101 Sexual Positions." Basically, they were just cheap black & white 50s-60s era pornography. I can remember VP pointing out one that was supposed to the best for getting the deepest penetration. Thanks, Doctor.
I don't know if they did this in every class, but at the end we were supposed to answer a list of questions like "How old were you the first time you had sex?" "Have you ever had a homosexual/lesbian experience?" "Have you ever participated in oral sex, anal sex, group sex, etc. etc. etc." This was supposed to be anonymous and for "research purposes" but it was pretty bizarre and I really wonder what they really did with those.
The weirdest thing for me though was the whole "original sin was masturbation" teaching. When we broke up into our little discussion groups after that one, I remember asking the other people if they really believed that and they all did. Our group leader said something like "We might not understand it all but Dr. Weirwille does and that's good enough for me." What a crock. I was on the way out the door after that."
diazbro:
"At the time (75 or so) we in my area were all young with an abundance of hormones so it made sense that there might be a class to deal with this topic. On the other hand no one in the room needed an explanation on slang or needed to see pictures of dongs."
" CF&S was some half-a$$ed stab at trying to make recommendations on how a christian should
approach the topic of sex but it failed as it didn't deal extensively with issues such as
sex before marriage and/or adultery which are only two of the more obvious issues."
Trefor Heywood:
"It was far more about sex than the Christian Family."
"The class did seem to be fairly denigrating towards women.
"I remember VPW using a phrase like
"A wife should be an angel in the kitchen and a whore in the bedroom".
When she wasn't cooking, was he renting Dotsie out?"
Wow 76-78:
"It seems to me that I came away from that class with a distinct sense
that it was mainly directed at the women.
-How she should treat her man (we're just little boys, all grown up).
How she shouldn't nag at him, how she should look pretty for him,
she should have sexy nighties set aside for special times,
she should have the home peaceful for him when he comes home from work,
etc, etc.
But I must add that I (myself) also thought that if a man was to receive
such adoration from a woman, he must be doing something to deserve it.
This was my take on it, I could not imagine someone getting this kind of
treatment just because that is the way it is supposed to be.
Looking back, I now see how lopsided the teachings and exhortations were.
I think it is in this class where he makes statements like
"there is no clear cut teaching about fornication in the New Testament"
and "if you knew the freedom you had in Christ, it would blow your minds".
These statements, made in this class setting, clarified the meaning of
the statement made in plaf:
'love God, love your neighbor and do as you damn fool please'
Makes ya wonder if vpw had an agenda, huh?"
Zix:
"Yes, VP taught that crap about the Original Sin being masturbation (i.e. must have been a banana, not an apple...) in CF&S. Fortunately, right before the segment started, our Limb C stood up and said "The biblical evidence for this next segment is still under review, so don't take it as set in stone." Not surprising that he didn't stick around long after LCM's "Obey or Die" letter...
Apparently, VP took the phrase with the Serpent showing Eve that the fruit of the tree was a thing "to be desired" and declared it meant "to be desired sexually". Funny, then, as how masturbation is not mentioned again in the Levitical cleanliness laws, although it does go out of its way to legislate that you can't touch the saddle upon which a menstruating woman has sat.
Must have been an oversight... :blink: "
Dot Matrix:
"I took the class more than once, maybe three times. I NEVER understood how VP got "masterbation" from scripture.
I found that class to be in poor taste. Now, looking back, it was about old horny men having a great time at the expense of young believers.
Why did he think he needed to teach such smut to young adults? We already learned about it in school or with our own experiences. It was inappropriate.
Never understood the masterbation stuff, but then I never understood "corps night" I used to sit there like I was in a foreign country unfamilar with the language.
I still thnk VP used our "birth to the corps" papers as "beat-off material." (Some had some racey things written in it.)
In CF&S, I bet VP watched us through a little peep hole, through which he peeked and played "yankee doodle" on his dandy."
"If I believe TWI was OKAY then went bad, I feel better about me.... Then, I was not REALLY deceived, I got into a GOOD ministry and it went bad.
To recognize VPW was a sexual pervert who took us all for a ride --- means you have to deal with yourself/myself/ourselves in understanding we WERE THAT tricked!!! That deceived!!!! That taken advantage of!!!
To say VPW taught some good Bible is like saying John Wayne Gacey wasn't all bad because he could paint."
WayferNot:
"I first took this class when I was a youngin (19 yrs old). I scratched my head about masturbation being the original sin. But then when veepee tried to teach women how to masturbate, I really scratched my head. I thought now if Adam and Eve did it and got booted from the Garden of Eden, why it is OK to do it now? And then the suggestion he gave to women on how to masturbate was not a good one.
In case you are wondering, he said that women/girls needed instruction because they weren't as knowledgeable in this area. (Go figure.) I don't remember needing any lesson on this. I guess he thought that because he thought women were more reserved in this category of life. He said men/boys didn't need it because their hands always found their way to that part of the body."
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WordWolf
Highlights from pg-9-11.
Dougie73:
"I do know VPW taught a live Christian Family & Sex class in lower NY.
He showed a clip of a porn at it called "DOG Day Afternoon" Well need I say what it was about ?!
I was shocked when I first heard this and it was used as an example to demonstrate how the devil perverted the beauty of sex. I think it was in the early 70's & it was much to much for the students at this camp where they met . It really freaked some of the students so it was never repeated again.
Are there any early day wayfers who were there ? I remebered that reading this thread &
the person I know that took it was a teenager at the time !
Anyone here ever hear about this.
I don't think I would want this ask this person now to recall that memoery so I'll you my friends on the "talk radio of ex-wayfers' to comment! I better "renew my mind" so I can get this posting out of my head now !!!!!!"
Skeptical Texan:
"If I had been one of a victim of his sexual appetites, perhaps I, too, would ascribe his motive for offering CFS to his sexual lusts.
But I don't think it was that. I ascribe his motive for offering to CFS to revenue generation.
Seriously, I think the purpose of CFS, and TWI generally, was to make money. VPW may have been evil, but he wasn't stupid. VPW's sexual appetites, and whatever scriptural justifications he made related to them, had to be kept private or any normal person would have left. Then he'd lose the money and access to young women.
Promiscuous behaviors and the doctrines justifying them were lockbox for Corps and other Wayfer insiders. I certainly was never privy to them and I don't recall any such justification in CFS (and, being single, I was listening carefully.)"
Valerie:
"I thought the class was disgusting. I also felt, as GOEY does that it was a class for VP to get every woman in the mind frame to worship the men's penis, thus ATEMPTING to make us promiscious.
It only ....ed me off. I also felt that he was very demeaning to women and I just hated the class. It depressed me and made me cry every f***ing time. I think I had to suffer throught it maybe 3-4 times.
Then of course I cannot forget the wife who's name rymes with Boynihan, that told me that we are here only to give pleasure to our man even if it hurts. what a stupid b***tch."
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coolchef
as far as i am concerned that class was nothing less than perverted and embaressing we were forced to take it with all of ouir friends and familie very young teens
cornhole vic was a sicko
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