When should I jump? When was the best time to get off this "mystery train?" Where was a soft spot to land? Are any of my "friends" going to jump with me? What will we find after jumping as the train chugs away?
Sky and Waysider
Exactly
And I spent the next 14 years looking and rejecting churches everywhere...
Groucho summed it up for me, one night, when he said (something like this); "When you are looking for God, look to GOD to find him. Then, if you wish to corporately worship, go do so, and if it gets funky leave. Cause you already have a foundation WITH GOD not defined by the "group." Can people find God at church? Some do and I am thankful but a lot of times we find "religion" or something manmade... we have to establish a relationship with God that is is unshakable ~ not matter what, no matter what anyone says, you stand firm in the Lord and your foundation is a rock which stands against all storms…."
What I saw in what he stated was:
Somewhere along my journey, I had allowed the group to define God, God's will for my life and who I was. This made everything shake because I had built my house upon sand...
I had a different experience than many. There never really was a time when I broke up with TWI, the whole thing just sort of faded away.
I was involved in TWI from '74 to '89 when LCM sent out his "follow me or leave" letter. I attended Corps Week that year just to hear what he had to say. To me, his teaching on Galatians was nothing more than him juxtaposing himself into scripture. He was making correlations that were completely fabricated. Meanwhile others in the Corps were talking about how freeing it all was. I knew I was no longer going to fellowship under the flag of The Way International. As I was leaving I decided to stop off at the Fountain of Living Waters one last time. I always liked being by that fountain. So I spent some time there and then I left. I didn't come back for about 20 years. I live in Ohio and one day I was on my sales route and was close to HQ so I thought I'd drive by. I did not have the feelings of sentimentality that I thought I would; it was just buildings.
When I say I never broke up with TWI, I mean that my belief system did not change for a very long time. I no longer took my orders from HQ, but I still attended an offshoot, I still believed VPW was the MOGFOT, I believed the BOT at the time were solely responsible for the demise of the ministry. I believed that if Wierwille were still living the whole thing would have stayed together. In fact, I believed that a major part of the ministry's demise was that the BOT failed to do what Wierwille taught. Of course I totally endorsed the doctrine of TWI.
My life continued on. I was newly married and 29 years old with a baby girl. In spite of being "highly favored", and in spite of my "believing", I developed cancer. We all knew that cancer was a devil spirit. The reason the disease progressed as far as it did was because of my refusal to seek medical help, I didn't want to get it checked out. My "believing" wouldn't make it go away, so I went in for treatment and today I am clean. Still, my belief system took a major shot.
My daughter continued to grow up, as babies do. I soon found that she didn't enthusiastically run to do everything I would tell her. Worse, I could not manipulate her to obey me. Gasp! I thought, "I can't control my family! A leader is supposed to control their family!" I was in sales and I found that most of the time people actually reject your offer. Some are downright rude about it. But I was a believer, I thought. Moreover, I was Corps. I should be leading my team every month. Worst of all, I developed financial problems. In other words, the processes in TWI that I adhered to for 15 years didn't work, so I became disappointed in everything.
I became a very hard and cold person, not a good combination when one is married. To make a very long story short, I lost my marriage due to my hardness of heart that resulted in hurtful actions.
THAT is when I guess one could say I broke up with TWI. I decided I knew nothing. Nothing about loving people, nothing about God. I went to a church where I didn't know anyone, laid my heart before God and tearfully confessed my own moral failures and hard-heartedness. It was hard going to church at first, especially small groups. I still adhered to the doctrine of TWI. I mean we all thought we knew The Word better than anyone since the First Century. I still had a reverence for VP. Those falsehoolds fell away over years. The stories I was hearing about VP's sexual exploits were bothering me. I read Kahler's book. I decided to come to GSC and find out what I could.
I'm thankful there were many who were honest about their sexual rendezvous with Wierwille. Skedgell's book capped it for me. I just needed to know that stuff. Not because of some sick perversion on my part, but because Wierwille was so very lifted up in my eyes over the years. I had to face the fact that I had been duped. GSC also helped me to start thinking for myself and much of TWI's doctrine unraveled.
Unlike many, I didn't lose a lot of friends. There was no confrontation when I left TWI or the offshoot. I didn't personally know many people in major leadership nor was I close to anyone on staff at HQ. As a matter of fact, though I'm from Ohio, I never particularly cared for HQ.
Well for me and My Spouse... we left in the middle of the night ... no good-byes... We left before all the hullabaloo, but then you all know that.. anyway for us we had been becoming increasingly more unhappy with the way.. but we also felt that it was us that was out of fellowship... that we needed to leave because we were not up to snuff.
We had trouble getting work it was the recession of the early 80's and we lived in the middle of the north west .. one of the hardest hit sections of the country.. but obviously our believing was not up to snuff or so we thought.
I was really struggling with a lot of issues... I was becoming more and more disturbed about how the ministry ran things... there was more and more out and out attacks against people... I had now seen some of the begginigs of mark and avoid although they didn't call it that yet.. it was a pervading group think of avoiding anyone who walked away from the way.. and in corps meetings you were told flat out to not have contact with anyone who left (this was in 81/82).
I was also struggling with the whole weight of being held responsible for the walk of members of our twig... and the lack of privacy we had, not just from leadership, but from the people in our twig... We could not just be ourselves, we had to be so very careful of everything we did and said, we had to be perfect.
I was very dismayed about how Headquarters/leadership impossed this level of dedication to all believers not just Corps... you were somehow not worthy if your whole life was not wrapped up in TWI.
This is my impressions of it as I became more and more educated in what Corps was taught and what they were told to expect from the people in their twigs.
When I first spent time with Hubby just out of Corps i thought it was just his way of thinking but as I spent more time in Corps meetings i found it was what he was taught.
Unbeknownst to me he was having his own struggles about much of the same things. What to me is sad is that we were afraid to discuss this with each other.It took an off hand remark from me about how unhappy I was and how I wished we were just plain regular people to really bring everything to a head.
We decided we needed to leave. We planned it for two days. Thank God for that moment of truthfulness with each other... I still remember the anguish he had asking if I would go with him. Spouses even then were looked down on if they left with a spouse rather than stand with the Miinistry.
I DID NOT MARRY THE DAMN MINISTRY.
I married my wonderful kind loving intelligent husband.
HE is who I wanted to be with, no matter where he went.
When we left we thought we were out of fellowship. That first few days, as we were hitchhiking to a new state, we worried that God would strike us down for leaving the ministry... How can it be okay to teach your people to fear leaving... that just can not be right.
Anyway not only did God not kill us, but time and time again.. ride after ride, we had wonderful people helping us. one of our rides let us sleep on a couch for the night at his house and fed us. We spent another night with one of Hubby's old high school friends who also Fed us and took me for my first time ever to a casino. Hubby was worried about how his parenets would receive us .. they didn't know we were coming... OMG they could not have been more wonderful.
we always felt that somehow it was our lack of faith and ability that put us out of the ministry. We knew we could not contact anyone as it would be nothing but condimnation for us. We had already heard people talk about what to do when other believers had left. The comments about how could this spouse or that one leave the ministry ... what were they thinking...We knew we would be facing all that if we tried to come back. We walked away from everything, all our friends, our lives, literally everything, We only took what we could carry on our backs... but when we did this we walked back into the arms of our families... We made new friends and new lives and it really was better... right from the begginig... We had a job within 3 days of getting to my husbands parents house and we have both had employment from that day forward... our family grew, our lives have been enriched, and for me I gained the most wonderful in laws a person could ever want.
The interesting thing about all this is, how arrogantly and tenaciously I clung to those TWI teachings. When I ran into some Way believers some time after VP died in 86.. I had the opportunity to go back to TWIG... Hubby said I could go if I wanted to, he was fine with it, but he could not go himself .. but even before he said that, I just knew.. I had the claw of fear in my stomach... that I should not go back.
After that I nevefr ran into anymore beelievers.. I always wondered why.. of course now I know why... TWI imploded.
Hubby and i got off with a few scraps and bruises compared to many others.
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skyrider
Well....finally, it's nice to know that someone else had those thoughts too.
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cheranne
I agree,what is gonna happen to all the years of peoples writings?
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cheranne
I did miss alot of people,but glad to be free.
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Dot Matrix
Sky and Waysider
Exactly
And I spent the next 14 years looking and rejecting churches everywhere...
Groucho summed it up for me, one night, when he said (something like this); "When you are looking for God, look to GOD to find him. Then, if you wish to corporately worship, go do so, and if it gets funky leave. Cause you already have a foundation WITH GOD not defined by the "group." Can people find God at church? Some do and I am thankful but a lot of times we find "religion" or something manmade... we have to establish a relationship with God that is is unshakable ~ not matter what, no matter what anyone says, you stand firm in the Lord and your foundation is a rock which stands against all storms…."
What I saw in what he stated was:
Somewhere along my journey, I had allowed the group to define God, God's will for my life and who I was. This made everything shake because I had built my house upon sand...
Cheranne
Great song "It's my life!" Ain't it the truth!?!
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WordWolf
I'm rhe only one who joined the GSC group and used my same avatar.
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Dot Matrix
I found you! thanks!
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GeorgeStGeorge
It seems appropriate here to post a song about "the breakup." TWI kicked me out, and then came back later to try to get me back.
I've never figured out how to embed a video here, but I can handle a link:
God bless you all.
George
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Dot Matrix
GREAT ONE!!!!! GEORGE!!!!
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Broken Arrow
I had a different experience than many. There never really was a time when I broke up with TWI, the whole thing just sort of faded away.
I was involved in TWI from '74 to '89 when LCM sent out his "follow me or leave" letter. I attended Corps Week that year just to hear what he had to say. To me, his teaching on Galatians was nothing more than him juxtaposing himself into scripture. He was making correlations that were completely fabricated. Meanwhile others in the Corps were talking about how freeing it all was. I knew I was no longer going to fellowship under the flag of The Way International. As I was leaving I decided to stop off at the Fountain of Living Waters one last time. I always liked being by that fountain. So I spent some time there and then I left. I didn't come back for about 20 years. I live in Ohio and one day I was on my sales route and was close to HQ so I thought I'd drive by. I did not have the feelings of sentimentality that I thought I would; it was just buildings.
When I say I never broke up with TWI, I mean that my belief system did not change for a very long time. I no longer took my orders from HQ, but I still attended an offshoot, I still believed VPW was the MOGFOT, I believed the BOT at the time were solely responsible for the demise of the ministry. I believed that if Wierwille were still living the whole thing would have stayed together. In fact, I believed that a major part of the ministry's demise was that the BOT failed to do what Wierwille taught. Of course I totally endorsed the doctrine of TWI.
My life continued on. I was newly married and 29 years old with a baby girl. In spite of being "highly favored", and in spite of my "believing", I developed cancer. We all knew that cancer was a devil spirit. The reason the disease progressed as far as it did was because of my refusal to seek medical help, I didn't want to get it checked out. My "believing" wouldn't make it go away, so I went in for treatment and today I am clean. Still, my belief system took a major shot.
My daughter continued to grow up, as babies do. I soon found that she didn't enthusiastically run to do everything I would tell her. Worse, I could not manipulate her to obey me. Gasp! I thought, "I can't control my family! A leader is supposed to control their family!" I was in sales and I found that most of the time people actually reject your offer. Some are downright rude about it. But I was a believer, I thought. Moreover, I was Corps. I should be leading my team every month. Worst of all, I developed financial problems. In other words, the processes in TWI that I adhered to for 15 years didn't work, so I became disappointed in everything.
I became a very hard and cold person, not a good combination when one is married. To make a very long story short, I lost my marriage due to my hardness of heart that resulted in hurtful actions.
THAT is when I guess one could say I broke up with TWI. I decided I knew nothing. Nothing about loving people, nothing about God. I went to a church where I didn't know anyone, laid my heart before God and tearfully confessed my own moral failures and hard-heartedness. It was hard going to church at first, especially small groups. I still adhered to the doctrine of TWI. I mean we all thought we knew The Word better than anyone since the First Century. I still had a reverence for VP. Those falsehoolds fell away over years. The stories I was hearing about VP's sexual exploits were bothering me. I read Kahler's book. I decided to come to GSC and find out what I could.
I'm thankful there were many who were honest about their sexual rendezvous with Wierwille. Skedgell's book capped it for me. I just needed to know that stuff. Not because of some sick perversion on my part, but because Wierwille was so very lifted up in my eyes over the years. I had to face the fact that I had been duped. GSC also helped me to start thinking for myself and much of TWI's doctrine unraveled.
Unlike many, I didn't lose a lot of friends. There was no confrontation when I left TWI or the offshoot. I didn't personally know many people in major leadership nor was I close to anyone on staff at HQ. As a matter of fact, though I'm from Ohio, I never particularly cared for HQ.
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leafytwiglet
Well for me and My Spouse... we left in the middle of the night ... no good-byes... We left before all the hullabaloo, but then you all know that.. anyway for us we had been becoming increasingly more unhappy with the way.. but we also felt that it was us that was out of fellowship... that we needed to leave because we were not up to snuff.
We had trouble getting work it was the recession of the early 80's and we lived in the middle of the north west .. one of the hardest hit sections of the country.. but obviously our believing was not up to snuff or so we thought.
I was really struggling with a lot of issues... I was becoming more and more disturbed about how the ministry ran things... there was more and more out and out attacks against people... I had now seen some of the begginigs of mark and avoid although they didn't call it that yet.. it was a pervading group think of avoiding anyone who walked away from the way.. and in corps meetings you were told flat out to not have contact with anyone who left (this was in 81/82).
I was also struggling with the whole weight of being held responsible for the walk of members of our twig... and the lack of privacy we had, not just from leadership, but from the people in our twig... We could not just be ourselves, we had to be so very careful of everything we did and said, we had to be perfect.
I was very dismayed about how Headquarters/leadership impossed this level of dedication to all believers not just Corps... you were somehow not worthy if your whole life was not wrapped up in TWI.
This is my impressions of it as I became more and more educated in what Corps was taught and what they were told to expect from the people in their twigs.
When I first spent time with Hubby just out of Corps i thought it was just his way of thinking but as I spent more time in Corps meetings i found it was what he was taught.
Unbeknownst to me he was having his own struggles about much of the same things. What to me is sad is that we were afraid to discuss this with each other.It took an off hand remark from me about how unhappy I was and how I wished we were just plain regular people to really bring everything to a head.
We decided we needed to leave. We planned it for two days. Thank God for that moment of truthfulness with each other... I still remember the anguish he had asking if I would go with him. Spouses even then were looked down on if they left with a spouse rather than stand with the Miinistry.
I DID NOT MARRY THE DAMN MINISTRY.
I married my wonderful kind loving intelligent husband.
HE is who I wanted to be with, no matter where he went.
When we left we thought we were out of fellowship. That first few days, as we were hitchhiking to a new state, we worried that God would strike us down for leaving the ministry... How can it be okay to teach your people to fear leaving... that just can not be right.
Anyway not only did God not kill us, but time and time again.. ride after ride, we had wonderful people helping us. one of our rides let us sleep on a couch for the night at his house and fed us. We spent another night with one of Hubby's old high school friends who also Fed us and took me for my first time ever to a casino. Hubby was worried about how his parenets would receive us .. they didn't know we were coming... OMG they could not have been more wonderful.
we always felt that somehow it was our lack of faith and ability that put us out of the ministry. We knew we could not contact anyone as it would be nothing but condimnation for us. We had already heard people talk about what to do when other believers had left. The comments about how could this spouse or that one leave the ministry ... what were they thinking...We knew we would be facing all that if we tried to come back. We walked away from everything, all our friends, our lives, literally everything, We only took what we could carry on our backs... but when we did this we walked back into the arms of our families... We made new friends and new lives and it really was better... right from the begginig... We had a job within 3 days of getting to my husbands parents house and we have both had employment from that day forward... our family grew, our lives have been enriched, and for me I gained the most wonderful in laws a person could ever want.
The interesting thing about all this is, how arrogantly and tenaciously I clung to those TWI teachings. When I ran into some Way believers some time after VP died in 86.. I had the opportunity to go back to TWIG... Hubby said I could go if I wanted to, he was fine with it, but he could not go himself .. but even before he said that, I just knew.. I had the claw of fear in my stomach... that I should not go back.
After that I nevefr ran into anymore beelievers.. I always wondered why.. of course now I know why... TWI imploded.
Hubby and i got off with a few scraps and bruises compared to many others.
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Dot Matrix
WOW, thanks to both of you for sharing...
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