One can come to the conclusion, that Adam and Eve had access to the tree of life, as long as their will conformed to the will of Yahweh, there was no danger to their going on eternally, being immortal; Yahweh was taking his resting during this time. Clearly Yahweh’s plan for these two humans was to eat off the tree of life, but it was up to them. The logic of freedom of will, their has to be the freedom to disobey; so they learned that they have moral autonomy by making the defiant choice, the choice for disobedience. The very action that brought them a Yahweh-like awareness of their moral autonomy, was an action that was taken in opposition to Yahweh. The serpent omitted in his speech to Eve, having that good and bad knowledge is no guarantee that one will choose or incline towards the good. Yes, you’ll become like Yahweh, it’s true in one sense, but also in another; the serpent sort of omitted to point out that it’s the power of moral choice alone, that is Yahweh-like. So we see then that having knowledge of good and bad is no guarantee that one will choose or incline towards the good. Once access to the tree of life was blocked; Yahweh raised Yeshua from among the dead, what did Yeshua do with his blood?
Clearly we see, that evil was not built into the structor of the world; evil is represented not as a physical reality. When Yahweh rests, he's looking at the whole thing, and it's very good, it's set up very well. And yet, we know that evil is a condition of human existence. It's a reality of life, therein is the shrewdness of the serpent, truly it's the power of moral choice alone, that is Yahweh-like.
The image humans were created in, this image of Yahweh is not spirit like VeePee taught, nor is the Serpent in the garden, Satan!
Evil stems from human behavior, Yahweh created a good world, but humans in the exercise of their moral autonomy, they have the power to corrupt the good. Evil lies within the realm of human responsibility and control.
It is interestring, that the life, that the tree of life produced, is the same life in John 10:10, Yeshua is going to get us that life that he got. Now that's a more than an abundant life! Good luck in your spirit realm.
It is interestring, that the central concern of life is not mortality but morality; and the drama of human life should revolve not around the search for eternal life, but around the moral conflict and tension between a good Yahweh's design for creation, and the free will of human beings that can corrupt that good design. The serpent tells Eve that if she eats the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and bad, she will become like Yahweh. The serpent really is not telling a lie, in a certain respect; Yahweh knows that, that human beings will become like Yahweh, knowing good and bad. It's one of the things about Yahweh, he knows good and bad, and has chosen the good.
We can clearly see that VeePee was wrong, when he taught that Yahweh put his spirit on them, so he could talk to them. Yahweh was not identified with nature, he transcended ature, and he wasn't known through nature or natural phenomena. Yahweh is known through history, events and a particular relationship with humankind. Yahweh used a kavod in the garden. This kavod, this cloud that contains or hides the fire that is Yahweh's presence; describing the presence of Yahweh among his people, this fire that's encased in a cloud, the kavod. Yahweh is concealed and revealed only in his kavod to the Israelites in that form, a light-filled cloud. Yahweh seems to be a burning fire inside this light-filled cloud, as he travels before the israelites. This kavod had settled on Mount Sinai representing Yahweh's presence; Yahweh could have used a kavod in the garden, when talking with these humans.
VeePee was wrong, when he taught that Adam gave Satan authority over the world, after they ate off that tree. Humans behavior is what let Satan and his clan get control of the world; homans lack of moral choice.
Yahweh must maintain the upper hand in his struggle with these humans who have learned to defy him. Yahweh maintains the upper hand in this, the fact that humans eventually must die. Yahweh banishes Adam and Eve from the Garden, and he stations these cherubim with overturning sword to guard the way back to the tree of life; it is now inaccessible. The access to the tree of life being block suggests that no humans have access to immortality, and the pursuit of immortality is futile. So is might be then that Yahweh really spoke the truth after all; the fruit did bring death to humankind. Evil is a product of human behavior, they will learn that moral choices and actions of humans have consequences that have to be borne by the perpetrator.
Yahweh must maintain the upper hand in his struggle with these humans who have learned to defy him. Yahweh maintains the upper hand in this, the fact that humans eventually must die. Yahweh banishes Adam and Eve from the Garden, and he stations these cherubim with overturning sword to guard the way back to the tree of life; it is now inaccessible. The access to the tree of life being block suggests that no humans have access to immortality, and the pursuit of immortality is futile. So is might be then that Yahweh really spoke the truth after all; the fruit did bring death to humankind.
Yahweh was not identified with nature, he transcended nature, and he wasn't known through nature or natural phenomena.
This is where you and I might disagree. Many religions have embraced the concept of knowing God through His handiwork. When you see some wonder of nature, such as the birth of a child, don't you sometimes feel like there might be some kind of "message" in what you are seeing that transcends mere words?
there is nature, Nature and NATURE...as in "the NATURE of the universe"
not only transcended, but transcended and included.
the general pattern of human history ("biblically" and otherwise) follows a pattern of 1) fusion with nature, 2) seperation from nature, then 3) reintegration with nature.
enmity with the natural is the middle step, where form is seen as evil and dirty and otherwise wrong and bad. anti-earth, anti-human and anti-"sin".
our destiny, as the most famous jewish man pointed out, is the end of such enmity and dualism.
not achieving ONEness, for ONEness is already always the NATURE of ALL...but remembering ONEness. noticing it.
This is where you and I might disagree. Many religions have embraced the concept of knowing God through His handiwork. When you see some wonder of nature, such as the birth of a child, don't you sometimes feel like there might be some kind of "message" in what you are seeing that transcends mere words?
That's good stuff their waysider, I remember one summer, 11 years old, I starred at this group of stars, it was a big W, it seemed I know that big W for some reason, I never knew I be trying to tell the story of that big W, that life Yahweh has within himself. It seems people could take that god in nature it to the extreme though; but I remember reading a post you wrote about walking down a road with some bulls or something like that, I see what your saying, Yahweh's in the little things, the little things. Thanks.
this thread is taking an interesting turn.
there is nature, Nature and NATURE...as in "the NATURE of the universe"
not only transcended, but transcended and included.
the general pattern of human history ("biblically" and otherwise) follows a pattern of 1) fusion with nature, 2) seperation from nature, then 3) reintegration with nature.
enmity with the natural is the middle step, where form is seen as evil and dirty and otherwise wrong and bad. anti-earth, anti-human and anti-"sin".
our destiny, as the most famous jewish man pointed out, is the end of such enmity and dualism.
not achieving ONEness, for ONEness is already always the NATURE of ALL...but remembering ONEness. noticing it.
It seems one is a lonly number, believe me, being one is no fun.
Ralph had some regards as to you.. who are you?
just a fair question..
you don't have to answer my little questions..
sowy.
I think Yawwey has a few details messed up here..
So.. where do we go, from here..
I'm a nothing, I cook for a living, could have had fame in this world, but I had a dream, and I chased that dream.
Funny stuff their, it seems to be one with nature would get old, I mean nature don't talk back.
Ahhh, but it does, my friend. It just doesn't always answer in a language that's constrained by words. Sometimes it answers with a sweet, fragrant smell or a breath-taking view or a sound that's like nothing words can describe.
Ahhh, but it does, my friend. It just doesn't always answer in a language that's constrained by words. Sometimes it answers with a sweet, fragrant smell or a breath-taking view or a sound that's like nothing words can describe.
Some good thoughts their, I see what your saying, it's like Yahweh dropped a bucket of paint in some places in our wonderings, cool stuff.
It is interestring how VeePee took the spirit ride on this subject, it's a moral walk. Our moral behavior, could one say our lives depend on it? It is interestring about the mind, how human minds are different from the other creatures minds?
I guess curiosity kill the cat, crazy how this serpent was shrewd in his curiosity? It seem animals in their own way, do the craziest things, a talking serpent, that is cool stuff.
How does instinct play a role in all of this, is it the instinct of the mind of these other creatures to do what they do, or in their nature to do what they do, just of thought?
How does instinct play a role in all of this, is it the instinct of the mind of these other creatures to do what they do, or in their nature to do what they do, just of thought?
Perhaps one of those unspoken messages holds the answer to your question.
Perhaps one of those unspoken messages holds the answer to your question.
Their you go, never in my wildest dream would I have ever thought getting rid of this Greek and Roman sprit teaching would be so hard. I see what your saying, peoples instinct towards what I trying to reason out. Yes it is crazy, VeePee takes one part of a page, and starts a ministry, I come along and say hay, what about the rest of the page here VeePee ripped off here. I'm no teacher, I'm a reasoner, I do my best, I sure have been learning a lot; but their are teachers and preachers, people called to these functions here, just maybe they will start telling people about that life Yahweh has within himself; the same life Yeshua got when Yahweh raised Yeshua from among the dead; the same life we are going to get. That was my dream, my prayer, to tell people about that life, somehow, someway.
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cman
what is this 'gathering together'? and why can't there be more then one? i guess if you haven't done it then you don't know so why do you think you do? and why threaten people with it? me thinks
waysider
Ahhh, but it does, my friend. It just doesn't always answer in a language that's constrained by words. Sometimes it answers with a sweet, fragrant smell or a breath-taking view or a sound that's like
waysider
Perhaps one of those unspoken messages holds the answer to your question.
teachmevp
One can come to the conclusion, that Adam and Eve had access to the tree of life, as long as their will conformed to the will of Yahweh, there was no danger to their going on eternally, being immortal; Yahweh was taking his resting during this time. Clearly Yahweh’s plan for these two humans was to eat off the tree of life, but it was up to them. The logic of freedom of will, their has to be the freedom to disobey; so they learned that they have moral autonomy by making the defiant choice, the choice for disobedience. The very action that brought them a Yahweh-like awareness of their moral autonomy, was an action that was taken in opposition to Yahweh. The serpent omitted in his speech to Eve, having that good and bad knowledge is no guarantee that one will choose or incline towards the good. Yes, you’ll become like Yahweh, it’s true in one sense, but also in another; the serpent sort of omitted to point out that it’s the power of moral choice alone, that is Yahweh-like. So we see then that having knowledge of good and bad is no guarantee that one will choose or incline towards the good. Once access to the tree of life was blocked; Yahweh raised Yeshua from among the dead, what did Yeshua do with his blood?
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teachmevp
Clearly we see, that evil was not built into the structor of the world; evil is represented not as a physical reality. When Yahweh rests, he's looking at the whole thing, and it's very good, it's set up very well. And yet, we know that evil is a condition of human existence. It's a reality of life, therein is the shrewdness of the serpent, truly it's the power of moral choice alone, that is Yahweh-like.
The image humans were created in, this image of Yahweh is not spirit like VeePee taught, nor is the Serpent in the garden, Satan!
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teachmevp
Evil stems from human behavior, Yahweh created a good world, but humans in the exercise of their moral autonomy, they have the power to corrupt the good. Evil lies within the realm of human responsibility and control.
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teachmevp
It is interestring, that the life, that the tree of life produced, is the same life in John 10:10, Yeshua is going to get us that life that he got. Now that's a more than an abundant life! Good luck in your spirit realm.
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teachmevp
It is interestring, that the central concern of life is not mortality but morality; and the drama of human life should revolve not around the search for eternal life, but around the moral conflict and tension between a good Yahweh's design for creation, and the free will of human beings that can corrupt that good design. The serpent tells Eve that if she eats the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and bad, she will become like Yahweh. The serpent really is not telling a lie, in a certain respect; Yahweh knows that, that human beings will become like Yahweh, knowing good and bad. It's one of the things about Yahweh, he knows good and bad, and has chosen the good.
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teachmevp
We can clearly see that VeePee was wrong, when he taught that Yahweh put his spirit on them, so he could talk to them. Yahweh was not identified with nature, he transcended ature, and he wasn't known through nature or natural phenomena. Yahweh is known through history, events and a particular relationship with humankind. Yahweh used a kavod in the garden. This kavod, this cloud that contains or hides the fire that is Yahweh's presence; describing the presence of Yahweh among his people, this fire that's encased in a cloud, the kavod. Yahweh is concealed and revealed only in his kavod to the Israelites in that form, a light-filled cloud. Yahweh seems to be a burning fire inside this light-filled cloud, as he travels before the israelites. This kavod had settled on Mount Sinai representing Yahweh's presence; Yahweh could have used a kavod in the garden, when talking with these humans.
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teachmevp
VeePee was wrong, when he taught that Adam gave Satan authority over the world, after they ate off that tree. Humans behavior is what let Satan and his clan get control of the world; homans lack of moral choice.
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teachmevp
As a result of humans inmoral behavior, Satan was able to attack this=
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teachmevp
Yahweh must maintain the upper hand in his struggle with these humans who have learned to defy him. Yahweh maintains the upper hand in this, the fact that humans eventually must die. Yahweh banishes Adam and Eve from the Garden, and he stations these cherubim with overturning sword to guard the way back to the tree of life; it is now inaccessible. The access to the tree of life being block suggests that no humans have access to immortality, and the pursuit of immortality is futile. So is might be then that Yahweh really spoke the truth after all; the fruit did bring death to humankind. Evil is a product of human behavior, they will learn that moral choices and actions of humans have consequences that have to be borne by the perpetrator.
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teachmevp
Yahweh must maintain the upper hand in his struggle with these humans who have learned to defy him. Yahweh maintains the upper hand in this, the fact that humans eventually must die. Yahweh banishes Adam and Eve from the Garden, and he stations these cherubim with overturning sword to guard the way back to the tree of life; it is now inaccessible. The access to the tree of life being block suggests that no humans have access to immortality, and the pursuit of immortality is futile. So is might be then that Yahweh really spoke the truth after all; the fruit did bring death to humankind.
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Ham
Ralph had some regards as to you.. who are you?
just a fair question..
you don't have to answer my little questions..
sowy.
I think Yawwey has a few details messed up here..
So.. where do we go, from here..
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waysider
This is where you and I might disagree. Many religions have embraced the concept of knowing God through His handiwork. When you see some wonder of nature, such as the birth of a child, don't you sometimes feel like there might be some kind of "message" in what you are seeing that transcends mere words?
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sirguessalot
this thread is taking an interesting turn.
there is nature, Nature and NATURE...as in "the NATURE of the universe"
not only transcended, but transcended and included.
the general pattern of human history ("biblically" and otherwise) follows a pattern of 1) fusion with nature, 2) seperation from nature, then 3) reintegration with nature.
enmity with the natural is the middle step, where form is seen as evil and dirty and otherwise wrong and bad. anti-earth, anti-human and anti-"sin".
our destiny, as the most famous jewish man pointed out, is the end of such enmity and dualism.
not achieving ONEness, for ONEness is already always the NATURE of ALL...but remembering ONEness. noticing it.
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teachmevp
That's good stuff their waysider, I remember one summer, 11 years old, I starred at this group of stars, it was a big W, it seemed I know that big W for some reason, I never knew I be trying to tell the story of that big W, that life Yahweh has within himself. It seems people could take that god in nature it to the extreme though; but I remember reading a post you wrote about walking down a road with some bulls or something like that, I see what your saying, Yahweh's in the little things, the little things. Thanks.
It seems one is a lonly number, believe me, being one is no fun.
I'm a nothing, I cook for a living, could have had fame in this world, but I had a dream, and I chased that dream.
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waysider
It seems one is a lonely number, believe me, being one is no fun.
It ain't no picnic
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teachmevp
Funny stuff their, it seems to be one with nature would get old, I mean nature don't talk back.
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waysider
Ahhh, but it does, my friend. It just doesn't always answer in a language that's constrained by words. Sometimes it answers with a sweet, fragrant smell or a breath-taking view or a sound that's like nothing words can describe.
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teachmevp
Some good thoughts their, I see what your saying, it's like Yahweh dropped a bucket of paint in some places in our wonderings, cool stuff.
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teachmevp
It is interestring how VeePee took the spirit ride on this subject, it's a moral walk. Our moral behavior, could one say our lives depend on it? It is interestring about the mind, how human minds are different from the other creatures minds?
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teachmevp
I guess curiosity kill the cat, crazy how this serpent was shrewd in his curiosity? It seem animals in their own way, do the craziest things, a talking serpent, that is cool stuff.
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teachmevp
How does instinct play a role in all of this, is it the instinct of the mind of these other creatures to do what they do, or in their nature to do what they do, just of thought?
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waysider
Perhaps one of those unspoken messages holds the answer to your question.
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teachmevp
Their you go, never in my wildest dream would I have ever thought getting rid of this Greek and Roman sprit teaching would be so hard. I see what your saying, peoples instinct towards what I trying to reason out. Yes it is crazy, VeePee takes one part of a page, and starts a ministry, I come along and say hay, what about the rest of the page here VeePee ripped off here. I'm no teacher, I'm a reasoner, I do my best, I sure have been learning a lot; but their are teachers and preachers, people called to these functions here, just maybe they will start telling people about that life Yahweh has within himself; the same life Yeshua got when Yahweh raised Yeshua from among the dead; the same life we are going to get. That was my dream, my prayer, to tell people about that life, somehow, someway.
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