and that's when i began to understand that looking for the signs of god at work was the opposite of faith, and that it was really a need for proof that god was working before i would believe for another work in my life. once i came to this understanding, i also came to the understanding of what people were trying to say to me when they were saying that god had a plan for my life or that god was in control, or at least my perception of what they were trying to say. but what i think those things mean is like what it says in the bible about god could have raised up children from the rocks. see, if it takes us to do something to get god's work done, then is he really god? like in a human family, the children don't go around worrying about how the bills get paid or how the food gets bought or how the laundry gets done. for the children, it just all happens without them thinking about it all. as the children grow and learn, then they might participate, but they don't get a full understanding until they are out on their own and make their own mistakes. no matter how well parents prepare children for being adults, until a child has bounced a few checks they don't really get what it means to keep a balanced check book.
so what i get from all of this is that according to the bible and many other holy books, as long as we are here, then we are still children, so we won't have an understanding of many things and we really don't need to worry about so many things because there's just not much we can do about them, anyway. what is that saying "the best laid plans of mice and men"?
Ouch! Wonderful post Brainfixed, but ouch! You're making me confront my own belief system! :blink:
personally, thinking that everything happens for a reason is the only thing at times that has gotten me through this life.... and i do believe i'll see the reason in the future
My 'dolt' remark was in reference to those who use that phrase "everything happens for a reason" in a manipulative manner; so that the people that they use it on stop asking questions about the situation they may not understand and/or who want a solution that doesn't fit with said dolt's worldview.
For example, I have a friend who has cancer, bad. So people say to her "everything happens for a reason." They don't know what else to say. They don't really know why she has this diagnosis; did God get PO'd at her and smite her? Is He testing her? Is she possessed like TWI teaches? Maybe He's blessing her with an important lesson to be learned?
Sometimes the reason things happen is that shyte happens.
WG---See that is what bothers me about it.....the explanation I guess. I don't think God smites people like that. I think I'd rather think that shyte just happens like you said. And of course, former teaching says, it's the devil that does that stuff.
BUT, a whole lot of people are promoting that everything happens for a reason and God is in charge. I can not sort this out I guess because I think there is an absolute truth? I don't know......
"To Adam He said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, 'You must not eat of it,' Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat of it all the days of your life. It will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you will eat the plants of the field. By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return."
Genesis 3:17-19
I think we tend to read over this and not think too much detail about it. Someday I would love to do a major study on The Curse. From what little I know, this was more than to kick them out of Eden. It was more than a tougher time bearing children. Cursed is the ground which was the source of their food. Adam's sin was so great that it affected everything, the soil beneath our feet, the air we breathe. Over a few thousand years, things have continued to deteriorate, including not only the earth, which supplies our food, but also as a result, our physical bodies. I used to work in a cancer hospital; many cancers are genetically traceable; they are written into genetic structure. Also when we go to a doctor and they want our family history? Heart disease, diabetes, cancer? I think it is part of the curse that has gotten into our very genes; we are sown with death.
So to say God is "testing us" or "smiting us" or "blessing us" with sickness and disease is BS.
Let me put it another way: My son can be an ornery little cuss. We taught him to be a hard worker, be the husband of one wife, provide for his family. We taught him to always tell the truth, to take care of what he has, be a good steward and save his money. He does none of these things. Yet, we still love him. He's still welcome in our home. While we don't let him sit around and sponge off us, if he or one of his has a genuine need we will do what we can to help.
So if God is a God Who hates, who kills, who hurts, I'm a better parent than He is? I don't think so, I think God is the best of the best!
However, there's a bright side to all of this: JESUS CHRIST PAID THE PRICE FOR OUR SIN AND WHOEVER CLAIMS HIM AS LORD AND SAVIOR IS FREE INDEED!
I do believe in a supreme and omnipotent God. I also believe He has given man freedom to choose. Sometimes we make stupid choices. Of course God knows the future, because He is God after all. But I don't think God does hateful and mean things to people. That's Satan's job and he is real good at it, unfortunately.
What is God's job exactly? We were taught in TWI, or at least I perceived it being taught, that God is not in control of the world. Man has free will to do as he wants. Now, I've run into people who have said, well God is in control. I'm not sure exactly what they mean by that. And they also say, God has a plan for your life and that He is in control of your life and what happens. I'm not sure what I think about all of this and have struggled with it for a very long time now. It certainly can change one's perception of life by adapting one or the other belief.
Newlife,
I don't know - I try to relate to God as my father. You know, the advice, the conversation. But I'm in charge of living my life, not Him. A good father wouldn't force a son to herd goats as opposed to being a writer if that's what he wants, right? Sometimes I think the "God is in control" people are using God as a crutch to avoid the responsibilities of living their own life, along with all its rewards and consequences. Or to explain dark or unfair things, which there are in this world.
Love God. Life your life.
I'm a son, not a robot. So the word "control" doesn't apply to me. It applies to inanimate objects and to control freaks.
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Ham
its just the thought of us, so happy..
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Ham
Sorry if it didn't work out..
sowie.. some questions, I end up at looking at old questions..
they always seem to beckon us..
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Ham
can you tell me, please don't tell me..
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Broken Arrow
Ouch! Wonderful post Brainfixed, but ouch! You're making me confront my own belief system! :blink:
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Watered Garden
What Broken Arrow said!
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Broken Arrow
I think this fits in with the current discussion:
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Ham
yep.. a thousand million questions.. that one plays in my head most of the time as well..
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Trefor Heywood
Well if you view this rendition you can hover your mouse over the words in red and they shall be interpreted for you.
You will be pleased to note that most Burns interprets itself right there in the verse... :P
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excathedra
personally, thinking that everything happens for a reason is the only thing at times that has gotten me through this life.... and i do believe i'll see the reason in the future
love,
dolthead
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GarthP2000
Ex,
My 'dolt' remark was in reference to those who use that phrase "everything happens for a reason" in a manipulative manner; so that the people that they use it on stop asking questions about the situation they may not understand and/or who want a solution that doesn't fit with said dolt's worldview.
Clear as mud perhaps? :B)
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newlife
Appreciate everyone's contribution on this topic.....
If Indeed, everything happens for a reason.......I'm not sure I am comfortable with that.
Maybe I have too much fear I don't know. But, if that were true, that everything does happen for a reason, I'd want to change my beliefs.
I do believe that God will bring good out of every situation, but I don't think that is the same thing.
Confusing for me......thanks for your input.....
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Watered Garden
Confusing because it's used as an excuse perhaps?
For example, I have a friend who has cancer, bad. So people say to her "everything happens for a reason." They don't know what else to say. They don't really know why she has this diagnosis; did God get PO'd at her and smite her? Is He testing her? Is she possessed like TWI teaches? Maybe He's blessing her with an important lesson to be learned?
Sometimes the reason things happen is that shyte happens.
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newlife
WG---See that is what bothers me about it.....the explanation I guess. I don't think God smites people like that. I think I'd rather think that shyte just happens like you said. And of course, former teaching says, it's the devil that does that stuff.
BUT, a whole lot of people are promoting that everything happens for a reason and God is in charge. I can not sort this out I guess because I think there is an absolute truth? I don't know......
Thanks for your post.
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Watered Garden
"To Adam He said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, 'You must not eat of it,' Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat of it all the days of your life. It will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you will eat the plants of the field. By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return."
Genesis 3:17-19
I think we tend to read over this and not think too much detail about it. Someday I would love to do a major study on The Curse. From what little I know, this was more than to kick them out of Eden. It was more than a tougher time bearing children. Cursed is the ground which was the source of their food. Adam's sin was so great that it affected everything, the soil beneath our feet, the air we breathe. Over a few thousand years, things have continued to deteriorate, including not only the earth, which supplies our food, but also as a result, our physical bodies. I used to work in a cancer hospital; many cancers are genetically traceable; they are written into genetic structure. Also when we go to a doctor and they want our family history? Heart disease, diabetes, cancer? I think it is part of the curse that has gotten into our very genes; we are sown with death.
So to say God is "testing us" or "smiting us" or "blessing us" with sickness and disease is BS.
Let me put it another way: My son can be an ornery little cuss. We taught him to be a hard worker, be the husband of one wife, provide for his family. We taught him to always tell the truth, to take care of what he has, be a good steward and save his money. He does none of these things. Yet, we still love him. He's still welcome in our home. While we don't let him sit around and sponge off us, if he or one of his has a genuine need we will do what we can to help.
So if God is a God Who hates, who kills, who hurts, I'm a better parent than He is? I don't think so, I think God is the best of the best!
However, there's a bright side to all of this: JESUS CHRIST PAID THE PRICE FOR OUR SIN AND WHOEVER CLAIMS HIM AS LORD AND SAVIOR IS FREE INDEED!
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Watered Garden
I do believe in a supreme and omnipotent God. I also believe He has given man freedom to choose. Sometimes we make stupid choices. Of course God knows the future, because He is God after all. But I don't think God does hateful and mean things to people. That's Satan's job and he is real good at it, unfortunately.
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chockfull
Newlife,
I don't know - I try to relate to God as my father. You know, the advice, the conversation. But I'm in charge of living my life, not Him. A good father wouldn't force a son to herd goats as opposed to being a writer if that's what he wants, right? Sometimes I think the "God is in control" people are using God as a crutch to avoid the responsibilities of living their own life, along with all its rewards and consequences. Or to explain dark or unfair things, which there are in this world.
Love God. Life your life.
I'm a son, not a robot. So the word "control" doesn't apply to me. It applies to inanimate objects and to control freaks.
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