Anyone else had any itinerary experiences with the way?
Does the way still want itineraries from their followers?
OMG yes, I most certainly did.
One time after I went on a trip I stopped at a mall and did some shopping. When i got home I was confronted by my fc for getting home later than I said I would. She wanted to know what i had done and why. Was it really a need? I should have stuck to my itinerary because I could have let the advesary in. I should have called first to see if an exception could be made.
I just wanted to buy a turtle neck. This needed to be discussed?
I have about five million more of these experiences, I wish I had done what you did right away and refused. This all caused me to become confused and fearful about making even the simplest decisions. It took years to recover, and to this day I still catch myself over thinking something and having anxiety attacks over insignificant decisions.
Hah! You guys must have been "in" during the 90's...or did the 'itinerary' crap continue into the 00's?
By nature I'm a planner, so when Martindale started pushing detailed planning I didn't have a problem with it, because that's what I was already doing. At first it was just something that we were "encouraged" to do without being checked up on, and our family got a lot of benefit from doing it: we were a one-car, six children family and if we didn't plan, chaos ensued. We had a weekly calendar posted in the kitchen with my work schedule, kids' sports and Boy Scouts, Way meetings etc.
It was when Way leaders wanted to know the schedule, in detail, and we had to explain deviations from it, that it became oppressive.
And it always seemed like leaders could change their schedule and compel you to change yours without a second thought. During this time my ex-wife spent her day home schooling the kids and I had my office in the home, so we were both frequently at the house all day. I don't know how many times we were asked to scrap our schedules to go witnessing or host an event or have the BC's come over for a counseling session when we had already blocked out our time.
I'm so glad I planned twi out of my life before they tried to plan my life for me.
Good Lord in heaven, what an intrusion, what an outrage. Many of the wrongs committed by twi leadership, while I don't condone them, I can at least understand the origins of. The more run-of-the-mill sins arose from human failings, like lust and greed--characteristics we're all familiar with. But this? Who the hell do these people think they are, gods on a stick?
Where in the Bible does it say anything about "planning the adversary out of your life"? Oh wait, I forgot. Rosalie Rivenbark told me I didn't need to read the Bible because I had to read Way Pub materials in my daily work. Silly me.
Why would I want to read the Bible for myself, anyway? Oh, I know! So I wouldn't fall for ridiculous BS like "checking in with my 'leadership'" whenever I needed to go buy a loaf of bread.
How they've kept anyone in that organization after pulling stunts like that is beyond my comprehension.
I would say when the FC called my parents nursing home room to make sure I was keeping to my schedule they set in motion the wheels to exit TWI. Oh and the FC wasn't happy when I pointed out I was going camping for a week and wouldn't have a phone close by. His wife pointed out there had to be a phone some place or could find cell service o check in each day. They were not happy when I told them they were stepping over the line when they were trying to make me use a business cell phone for private business. The RC agreed with me but they did call Mom and asked for me. Even the staff of the nursing home thought a none emergency call was extremely rude.
Anyone else had any itinerary experiences with the way?
I had to endure this while I was going through the way corpse "training" program. Every year had some form of this sort of nonsense. I quickly learned to turn in what they wanted and do whatever I wanted, instead of being worried about where they thought I was. What's the worse they could do? Kick me out of the program? I only wish they had.
I know around HQ, when the forehead was being sued, fired, etc. They stopped this practice abruptly when Rosalie and the lawyers began white washing all the blatant civil rights violations from plain view. Dunno if it was abolished on the field or not. There were a lot of things that changed at HQ due to employment law that did not translate to the branches.
Where in the Bible does it say anything about "planning the adversary out of your life"?
In the wierwille-cult.....who needs the Bible when you got a "man of god" telling you what it said?
One of the four fronts of the devil, in Dealing with the Adversary class.....was yourself. You know, I found it really difficult "planning ME out of MY life."
What a crapola sandwich all those classes were.........
Now, let me get this straight. Everybody had to give a schedule of what they planned to do each day to their leadership? Not that it wouldn't be bad enough if Corps and leadership had to do this, but everybody? How was that "sold" to new recruits, or did it only apply after, say, one took the Advanced Class?
Man! That's just awful! I'm sorry you guys had to endure that melarky. That definitely was not going on in the 70's or 80's.
What I find amazing is that they were able to successfully promote this idea while, at the same time, sell people on the crazy "law" of believing. (Two diametrically opposed concepts)
I know this has been stated elsewhere, but to reiterate, the scheduling wackiness came from Rosalie. She is disgusting enough to want to micromanage others lives at that level. Very sick woman. The last few years of Craig's presidency I understand he was basically held hostage by Donna and Rosalie anyway. I was told that they used his affairs against him and let him mouthpiece their policies. I.e. - no debt, scheduling, itineraries, etc. (Sorry WayGB, was I supposed to keep that confidential? )
I know this has been stated elsewhere, but to reiterate, the scheduling wackiness came from Rosalie. She is disgusting enough to want to micromanage others lives at that level. Very sick woman. The last few years of Craig's presidency I understand he was basically held hostage by Donna and Rosalie anyway. I was told that they used his affairs against him and let him mouthpiece their policies. I.e. - no debt, scheduling, itineraries, etc.
(Sorry WayGB, was I supposed to keep that confidential? )
Yeah, that policy has Rosalie's name written all over it. When I worked in Way Pub, she tried to make us sign out to go to the bathroom. That didn't last long, once Don W heard about it.
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
ROFL! That one will make Rosalie's desk for sure. They are on the prowl for "chatter" ya know! I mean if someone says it, and thought precedes action, then surely they will do it...no?
I know this has been stated elsewhere, but to reiterate, the scheduling wackiness came from Rosalie. She is disgusting enough to want to micromanage others lives at that level. Very sick woman. The last few years of Craig's presidency I understand he was basically held hostage by Donna and Rosalie anyway. I was told that they used his affairs against him and let him mouthpiece their policies. I.e. - no debt, scheduling, itineraries, etc. (Sorry WayGB, was I supposed to keep that confidential? )
So one interesting thing to discuss about this - the type of behavior that is disgusting enough to want to micromanage people's lives like that is a psychological disorder. It definitely is in the obsessive / compulsive family of disorders. A disorder is something abnormal in a person's makeup.
The question is, why is it rather than someone addressing this and Rosalie getting the help and potentially medication she needs to control this disorder is it TWI's policy to redefine reality around this disorder?
That is exactly the same as someone being a complete alchoholic obtaining the position of the President and redefining reality of everyone having to drink to excess.
TWI is the one that teaches "the Word is just good common horse sense". Well, those horses need some sense.
Not sure if anyone brought up this part of scheduling. You had to turn in a proposed
schedule every week by Friday to your leadership. They had to review it (including day off
activities),critique or 'approve' it. And the following Sunday or Monday morning, you had
to send an 'actual'schedule - as to what you actually did. They were going to determine if
your changes were valid or 'distraction' from the adversary.
I pitied the RC. He had his wife be the (as her subordinates affectionately refer to her)
schedule Nazi. Wow! What a title.
After said schedule was turned in, we were supposed to call ahead of time if we wanted to change something on it to make sure it qualified as an "exception".
So ridiculous. So tedious. Made normal life unbelievably and unnecesarily stressful.
Here's another bone to pick I have with TWI "itineraries".
More recently Rosie the fat cow and minions have implemented a policy where the only traveling they do is behind the cover of silence, and usually to deal with some kind of disciplinary action within the ranks. This has been under her inept reign, and completely in the face of stuff that happened with VPW and even LCM.
Compare this to Paul's itineraries in the Bible where he traveled extensively to get the Word out to people, to teach, minister, set up leadership, etc.
When was the last f'ing time a leader from TWI HQ EVER went out on an itinerary to teach in a local area? Do the BOD travel to carry "the Word" to local areas? Why not? Aren't they supposed to be "the new dynamic Church in the 21st century?" And yes, visiting a household fellowship in BFE Ohio within a drive of where you live is EXTREMELY WEAK as an answer. Paul suffered shipwrecks, by God. And all you have to do is fly coach?
WEAK, INEPT, STUPID.
One of the worst leaders ever in TWI history. Just a bunch of laziness, to sit in a lofty tower and "control" schedules rather than making an effort to actually get off your @$$ and help someone, travel out, get some dust on your feet.
What exactly is it you draw a salary for anyhow? To review weekly schedules, and hold a phone call about them? Volunteers in your ministry do so much more than your lazy @$$.
VPW set the precedent decades ago for leadership itineraries. As I have mentioned before, he never once made the trip from New Knoxville to Delaware to visit Fellowlaborers during the time I was there. (3 years) There is a small aircraft airport within a 15 minute drive of what was then Limb HQ. It would have been a simple trip with Ambassador One. We were supposed to be "the front lines" because of our proximity to Int. HQ. (At least that's what we were told at the 3a.m. meeting when the program was abruptly canceled and then reinstated only a few hours later.) The general never visited his troops. Not even once.
VPW set the precedent decades ago for leadership itineraries. As I have mentioned before, he never once made the trip from New Knoxville to Delaware to visit Fellowlaborers during the time I was there. (3 years) There is a small aircraft airport within a 15 minute drive of what was then Limb HQ. It would have been a simple trip with Ambassador One. We were supposed to be "the front lines" because of our proximity to Int. HQ. (At least that's what we were told at the 3a.m. meeting when the program was abruptly canceled and then reinstated only a few hours later.) The general never visited his troops. Not even once.
Of course, you're not talking about the state of Delaware, but Delaware, Ohio, which is only a two-hour Harley ride from New Knoxville.
What he really needed was a motor scooter that was especially outfitted and dedicated for the purpose of visiting the believers. He could have called it something clever like "The Twig Hopper".
What he really needed was a motor scooter that was especially outfitted and dedicated for the purpose of visiting the believers. He could have called it something clever like "The Twig Hopper".
WOW! What a great idea! He could've even had Howard promote it and get the believers to buy it for him from a special collection. That way TWI wouldn't have had to contribute a dime from their own coffers! Oh well, opportunities pass.
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100% Free
OMG yes, I most certainly did.
One time after I went on a trip I stopped at a mall and did some shopping. When i got home I was confronted by my fc for getting home later than I said I would. She wanted to know what i had done and why. Was it really a need? I should have stuck to my itinerary because I could have let the advesary in. I should have called first to see if an exception could be made.
I just wanted to buy a turtle neck. This needed to be discussed?
I have about five million more of these experiences, I wish I had done what you did right away and refused. This all caused me to become confused and fearful about making even the simplest decisions. It took years to recover, and to this day I still catch myself over thinking something and having anxiety attacks over insignificant decisions.
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Oakspear
Hah! You guys must have been "in" during the 90's...or did the 'itinerary' crap continue into the 00's?
By nature I'm a planner, so when Martindale started pushing detailed planning I didn't have a problem with it, because that's what I was already doing. At first it was just something that we were "encouraged" to do without being checked up on, and our family got a lot of benefit from doing it: we were a one-car, six children family and if we didn't plan, chaos ensued. We had a weekly calendar posted in the kitchen with my work schedule, kids' sports and Boy Scouts, Way meetings etc.
It was when Way leaders wanted to know the schedule, in detail, and we had to explain deviations from it, that it became oppressive.
And it always seemed like leaders could change their schedule and compel you to change yours without a second thought. During this time my ex-wife spent her day home schooling the kids and I had my office in the home, so we were both frequently at the house all day. I don't know how many times we were asked to scrap our schedules to go witnessing or host an event or have the BC's come over for a counseling session when we had already blocked out our time.
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Linda Z
I'm so glad I planned twi out of my life before they tried to plan my life for me.
Good Lord in heaven, what an intrusion, what an outrage. Many of the wrongs committed by twi leadership, while I don't condone them, I can at least understand the origins of. The more run-of-the-mill sins arose from human failings, like lust and greed--characteristics we're all familiar with. But this? Who the hell do these people think they are, gods on a stick?
Where in the Bible does it say anything about "planning the adversary out of your life"? Oh wait, I forgot. Rosalie Rivenbark told me I didn't need to read the Bible because I had to read Way Pub materials in my daily work. Silly me.
Why would I want to read the Bible for myself, anyway? Oh, I know! So I wouldn't fall for ridiculous BS like "checking in with my 'leadership'" whenever I needed to go buy a loaf of bread.
How they've kept anyone in that organization after pulling stunts like that is beyond my comprehension.
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Ductape
I would say when the FC called my parents nursing home room to make sure I was keeping to my schedule they set in motion the wheels to exit TWI. Oh and the FC wasn't happy when I pointed out I was going camping for a week and wouldn't have a phone close by. His wife pointed out there had to be a phone some place or could find cell service o check in each day. They were not happy when I told them they were stepping over the line when they were trying to make me use a business cell phone for private business. The RC agreed with me but they did call Mom and asked for me. Even the staff of the nursing home thought a none emergency call was extremely rude.
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OldSkool
I had to endure this while I was going through the way corpse "training" program. Every year had some form of this sort of nonsense. I quickly learned to turn in what they wanted and do whatever I wanted, instead of being worried about where they thought I was. What's the worse they could do?
Kick me out of the program? I only wish they had.
I know around HQ, when the forehead was being sued, fired, etc. They stopped this practice abruptly when Rosalie and the lawyers began white washing all the blatant civil rights violations from plain view. Dunno if it was abolished on the field or not. There were a lot of things that changed at HQ due to employment law that did not translate to the branches.
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skyrider
In the wierwille-cult.....who needs the Bible when you got a "man of god" telling you what it said?
One of the four fronts of the devil, in Dealing with the Adversary class.....was yourself. You know, I found it really difficult "planning ME out of MY life."
What a crapola sandwich all those classes were.........
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Broken Arrow
Now, let me get this straight. Everybody had to give a schedule of what they planned to do each day to their leadership? Not that it wouldn't be bad enough if Corps and leadership had to do this, but everybody? How was that "sold" to new recruits, or did it only apply after, say, one took the Advanced Class?
Man! That's just awful! I'm sorry you guys had to endure that melarky. That definitely was not going on in the 70's or 80's.
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waysider
What I find amazing is that they were able to successfully promote this idea while, at the same time, sell people on the crazy "law" of believing. (Two diametrically opposed concepts)
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mstar1
Thankfully I was long gone when all that happened.. It sounds like they successfully planned God right out as well as "the adversary"
How did they fit any life in there at all?
---10:03 Am-Get inspired to write letter to long lost friend that I havent thought of in 27 years....including when Im filling out my schedule.
4:37 talk to person in coffee shop, discover we have alot in common and talk for two hours over dinner....
It would never have worked for me at all
My daily schedule looks something like this--1.)Probably Wakeup sometime, 2.) do stuff that happens.
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OldSkool
I know this has been stated elsewhere, but to reiterate, the scheduling wackiness came from Rosalie. She is disgusting enough to want to micromanage others lives at that level. Very sick woman. The last few years of Craig's presidency I understand he was basically held hostage by Donna and Rosalie anyway. I was told that they used his affairs against him and let him mouthpiece their policies. I.e. - no debt, scheduling, itineraries, etc. (Sorry WayGB, was I supposed to keep that confidential?
)
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Linda Z
Yeah, that policy has Rosalie's name written all over it. When I worked in Way Pub, she tried to make us sign out to go to the bathroom. That didn't last long, once Don W heard about it.
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excathedra
hi linzee love, e
my time sheet --
blow up rosalie and twi
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
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OldSkool
ROFL! That one will make Rosalie's desk for sure. They are on the prowl for "chatter" ya know! I mean if someone says it, and thought precedes action, then surely they will do it...no?
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waysider
No need to blow them up. They already imploded, all by themselves, years ago.
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OldSkool
I'm not so sure they know that it happened...I mean they are a "remnant." I think of a carpet remnant, you know a scrap.
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OldSkool
At least Rosalie calls them a remnant - a faithful remnant...you know only a handful will ever believe...and they are it.
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chockfull
So one interesting thing to discuss about this - the type of behavior that is disgusting enough to want to micromanage people's lives like that is a psychological disorder. It definitely is in the obsessive / compulsive family of disorders. A disorder is something abnormal in a person's makeup.
The question is, why is it rather than someone addressing this and Rosalie getting the help and potentially medication she needs to control this disorder is it TWI's policy to redefine reality around this disorder?
That is exactly the same as someone being a complete alchoholic obtaining the position of the President and redefining reality of everyone having to drink to excess.
TWI is the one that teaches "the Word is just good common horse sense". Well, those horses need some sense.
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Patriot
Not sure if anyone brought up this part of scheduling. You had to turn in a proposed
schedule every week by Friday to your leadership. They had to review it (including day off
activities),critique or 'approve' it. And the following Sunday or Monday morning, you had
to send an 'actual'schedule - as to what you actually did. They were going to determine if
your changes were valid or 'distraction' from the adversary.
I pitied the RC. He had his wife be the (as her subordinates affectionately refer to her)
schedule Nazi. Wow! What a title.
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100% Free
After said schedule was turned in, we were supposed to call ahead of time if we wanted to change something on it to make sure it qualified as an "exception".
So ridiculous. So tedious. Made normal life unbelievably and unnecesarily stressful.
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chockfull
Here's another bone to pick I have with TWI "itineraries".
More recently Rosie the fat cow and minions have implemented a policy where the only traveling they do is behind the cover of silence, and usually to deal with some kind of disciplinary action within the ranks. This has been under her inept reign, and completely in the face of stuff that happened with VPW and even LCM.
Compare this to Paul's itineraries in the Bible where he traveled extensively to get the Word out to people, to teach, minister, set up leadership, etc.
When was the last f'ing time a leader from TWI HQ EVER went out on an itinerary to teach in a local area? Do the BOD travel to carry "the Word" to local areas? Why not? Aren't they supposed to be "the new dynamic Church in the 21st century?" And yes, visiting a household fellowship in BFE Ohio within a drive of where you live is EXTREMELY WEAK as an answer. Paul suffered shipwrecks, by God. And all you have to do is fly coach?
WEAK, INEPT, STUPID.
One of the worst leaders ever in TWI history. Just a bunch of laziness, to sit in a lofty tower and "control" schedules rather than making an effort to actually get off your @$$ and help someone, travel out, get some dust on your feet.
What exactly is it you draw a salary for anyhow? To review weekly schedules, and hold a phone call about them? Volunteers in your ministry do so much more than your lazy @$$.
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waysider
VPW set the precedent decades ago for leadership itineraries. As I have mentioned before, he never once made the trip from New Knoxville to Delaware to visit Fellowlaborers during the time I was there. (3 years) There is a small aircraft airport within a 15 minute drive of what was then Limb HQ. It would have been a simple trip with Ambassador One. We were supposed to be "the front lines" because of our proximity to Int. HQ. (At least that's what we were told at the 3a.m. meeting when the program was abruptly canceled and then reinstated only a few hours later.) The general never visited his troops. Not even once.
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Broken Arrow
Of course, you're not talking about the state of Delaware, but Delaware, Ohio, which is only a two-hour Harley ride from New Knoxville.
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waysider
What he really needed was a motor scooter that was especially outfitted and dedicated for the purpose of visiting the believers. He could have called it something clever like "The Twig Hopper".
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Broken Arrow
WOW! What a great idea! He could've even had Howard promote it and get the believers to buy it for him from a special collection. That way TWI wouldn't have had to contribute a dime from their own coffers! Oh well, opportunities pass.
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