Well they did train them to be sarcastic and to meddle in the affairs of their underlings. They trained them to get the underlings to do their child rearing and house cleaning. What more do you want?
Old School - - ya know - - IF they wanted to become a class-A organization they would have taught at least some of the things you suggested. It seems it was easier to lead by throwing your weight around. In the end, IMHO that was the single thing that brought them down. Just magnify "throw your weight around" and extrapolate and you find the source of every single rape...and marriage destruction.
I have no doubt that most of those who went corps desires to serve bigger and better than they could otherwise. I really believe this is true. But I think there were some who saw a way to get through life on the backs of others and those are the ones many of us remember just because of the hurt they caused and the bad taste they left in our mouths.
There were many very good people who went corps. I know....I met many of them.....but if they had been taught just some of the things on your list, they all would have brought the love of God all over the country.
Leadership training? LMAO. As with most things TWI related, it's full of ego, elitism, and lack of substance.
What do they study? The WAY classes that they've already taken a dozen times. The STS tapes. And they work. Free slave labor. Oh, but they will tell you how you paying to be there doesn't cover the costs. They just conveniently forget, that even at minimum wage, you do more than earn your keep to cover the costs.
Do they have educated people teaching it? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAA
Do they have a curriculum? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Do they have courses? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Do they give out transcripts once you complete? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Here's the curriculum of one of the online degree colleges offerings lately for a Bacelor's Degree in Business Administration, which is kind of like your generic business degree:
In addition, choose 42 quarter credits of upper-division Business courses.
Elective Courses
Choose 39 credits of additional undergraduate courses.
Capstone Course (taken during learner's final quarter)
BUS4993 - Business Capstone Project - 6 quarter credits
So here you have relevant coursework taught by qualified professors that follows a well-mapped education plan.
This is for an ONLINE UNIVERSITY - you know - where you can TAKE THE COURSES AT HOME!!!!
It's the newest version of the correspondance college - you know, like the one VPW got his PhD from. Except these colleges are much larger, have qualified staff, and a lot more going on.
The Way Corps training program? They teach you to be compliant to Rosalie. And the chain of command. That's about it. Not much going on there at all.
this is pretty much the standard course, customized for business. Legitimate colleges have equivalent ethics courses for the engineering sciences as well.. along with social sciences.. medicine, etc..
why does da way seem to think they are exempt from this?
the only lessons in ethics they seem to get are from high power lawyers..
why does da way seem to think they are exempt from this?
Well, what little I know on the inner workings. The way international keeps some form of operating license / accreditation with the state of Colorado, where requirements are VERY lax. They make the students take the way of abundance class series multiple times throughout the year in order to meet minimum hours requirements required by the state. They cannot function solely out of the state of Ohio because the standards are way higher than Colorado. With Universities like Ohio State, and university of Cincinnati there is a lot of sunshine on any type of college operating in Ohio. So what does the way international do? They keep their "college" based out of Colorado and have the students living in Ohio where the in-residence way corps currently are training. They keep appearances, so to speak, by doing just enough out of Gunnison to keep the state happy. Lead for example.
In other words they are doing a shell game on the states of Colorado and Ohio. Their college is not legitimate. They do think they are exempt from that and a lot more.
Yeah, and you keep saying the whole thing was a waste of time. I mean, look at all these mundane skills you developed. Weren't you taught to keep your underwear drawer straight? That right there is worth the price of admission. I mean, a good leader has to have a neat underwear drawer, right? I bet the Apostle Peter could pull a pair of jockeys out of his drawer without even having to look.
Now, as for me, my underwear drawer was fine. I had a 4-year college degree, and I learned how to screw in lightbulbs. I mean all different kinds like 40 watt, 60 watt and on up the line. By the time it was over, I had progressed all the way up to replacing flourescent bulbs.
That really is leadership training because with TWI you needed to be adept at screwing over people if you wanted to be an effective leader.
At one time Howard taught a course called Practical Management. They would do goal setting, time management and the like. I'm not sure he even graduated from high school, I could be wrong about that. There was also a class called "Leadership Principles of Jesus Christ". As I recall, though, that was mostly a course on the gospels.
At one time Howard taught a course called Practical Management. They would do goal setting, time management and the like. I'm not sure he even graduated from high school, I could be wrong about that. There was also a class called "Leadership Principles of Jesus Christ". As I recall, though, that was mostly a course on the gospels.
Practical Management is no longer taught and was discontinued sometime ago. I read through the syllabus and it had some good pointers in it but was by no means a college level leadership course. I have personally worked with HA and there isn't too much going on there.
I have never heard of Leadership Principles of Jesus Christ. There have been so many classes discontinued over the years for one reason or another. It is no longer taught either. Sounds like it would have been a good class based on the title.
Practical Management is no longer taught and was discontinued sometime ago. I read through the syllabus and it had some good pointers in it but was by no means a college level leadership course. I have personally worked with HA and there isn't too much going on there.
Howard Allen spent some time on this subject (2 or 3 hours) during one of the last ROA's. I think it was supposed to be a condensed version of the Corps class. It seemed to me to be just "helpful tips from an old guy", kind of what I try to do for my kids when they are in high school and are working and managing money for the first time. Nothing wrong with any of what was in there, but hardly "leadership training".
The Corps program was all about "the greatest leader is the greatest servant." All the time in Dishroom, cleaning out chicken pens, scrubbing toilets and such like was teaching us to be good servants. Therefore we could be better leaders.
For some people doing such things might wel have been a real shock. However, most of us know how to do these things though not at industrial levels.
We had to learn to follow directions (orders) before we could learn to give directions (orders). As it happens, most of us never learned enough to get to that stage. Only how to compel others to "follow" by the same oppressive measures.
The Corps program was all about "the greatest leader is the greatest servant." All the time in Dishroom, cleaning out chicken pens, scrubbing toilets and such like was teaching us to be good servants. Therefore we could be better leaders.
For some people doing such things might wel have been a real shock. However, most of us know how to do these things though not at industrial levels.
We had to learn to follow directions (orders) before we could learn to give directions (orders). As it happens, most of us never learned enough to get to that stage. Only how to compel others to "follow" by the same oppressive measures.
Very very well said.
I have never heard of Leadership Principles of Jesus Christ. There have been so many classes discontinued over the years for one reason or another. It is no longer taught either. Sounds like it would have been a good class based on the title.
It was a good class, really just a very basic class on the gospels as I recall. Nothing wrong with that. I figure LCM got rid of it because he didn't think the gospels applied to our administration. That's just conjecture on my part.
It was a good class, really just a very basic class on the gospels as I recall. Nothing wrong with that. I figure LCM got rid of it because he didn't think the gospels applied to our administration. That's just conjecture on my part.
I understand, for one reason or another, LCM got rid of a lot of classes during his dark reign. I've been told that sometimes it had to do with who taught the material. Apparently, when his foes received the bum's rush (or left of their own accord) he would pull the material. I'm not saying that happened with this particular class. I just find it curios that between LCM, and Rosalie they have managed to decimate anything that would give appeal to their draconian system. It's like they went through and removed all the bait and left the hooks bare. But, agai, conjecture on my part as well.
And this is leadership training? Is the title of the topic? What is it really?
I will start by saying my little son is afraid there are monsters in his closet. Every
night before bed we have to check just to make sure. Then an all-powerful night light must be turned on. We all know this powerful weapon can scare any monster, goblin or bogeyman away.
His older sibling thinks he is a baby. But this child is convinced that their teacher is on a mission
to cause this child to fail. This child thinks the teacher is out to get my child, with extra work and being pushed in class. I sat down with this teacher to find out the deal. Well this child reads 4 grades higher then their present grade and has scored off the charts on all the state testing and this teacher is just pushing and changeling my child. I am ok with that.
My point is, in someone’s mind perception is reality. The teacher is not out to get my child just like there are no monsters in the closet. BUT,BUT, if we are talking about perception and reality we were told, taught and beaten down with in the Way, a way corp. person has energized gift ministries. This is the trick and catch. Every a-hole corp. grad is revered as a revelation machine and walking with God. While lowly wayfers need to submit to leadership. No disrespect to the Corp program or grads of days gone past. Now days ALL CORP GRADS ARE ROBTS FOR ROSIE AND THE WAY. God caught the last train to the coast and any revelation is gone from the way.
Is being a way corp. grad leadership training? No it just gives you a title to keep the wayfers in line.
This post raises a lot of questions. My favorite is: Why do Christians think they need a leader?
Organizations need leaders. Otherwise everyone would be constantly re-inventing the wheel and repeating the same mistakes. Also, people need experienced one's to show how to live something out vocationally whether that "something" be management, parenthood, or whatever. Leaders are needed in organizations in order to give direction, sometimes correct, reprimand, and perhaps even purge those who would take an organization in an undesired direction.
Adults, including Christian adults, don't need leaders to make decisions for them regarding their personal lives. That is called freedom. A foreign concept to many.
Good point. But where in the bible do we see the need for organizations? (not organization, but non-profit corporate entities that people are pressured into swearing their allegiance)
I know you are not advocating this, and perhaps this belongs in doctrinal. But the biggest hurdle I face re-involving myself with any type of group is overcoming my disdain for the "organization."
To me, modern Christianity places an inordinate value on the organization - even placing the organization between the Christian and Christ.
Good point. But where in the bible do we see the need for organizations? (not organization, but non-profit corporate entities that people are pressured into swearing their allegiance)
I know you are not advocating this, and perhaps this belongs in doctrinal. But the biggest hurdle I face re-involving myself with any type of group is overcoming my disdain for the "organization."
To me, modern Christianity places an inordinate value on the organization - even placing the organization between the Christian and Christ.
The purpose of a PROPER Christian organization is to serve as the MEANS for one or more ENDS.
It is the TOOL for accomplishing a task.
All too often, it becomes the END IN ITSELF, and the organization exists to further the organization.
twi is a quintessential example of this, but it's hardly alone.
(not organization, but non-profit corporate entities that people are pressured into swearing their allegiance)
Don't get me started. :)
"Non-profits" do incredible amounts of good in our nation as I'm sure you know. Often populated by people giving their time, talent and money to support efforts to assist in areas of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness for those who can use and will use a leg up on their circumstance.
Involvement in these kinds of areas can be a resume' item for those who do it sure but it's a means to "pay it forward" and do good out of the good they have. Yet it's not typical to see those who make such efforts getting wealthy or accumulating personal volume through the org's. Sure, it happens and when we hear about it we're aghast. "That's so wrong!" we think, profiting from an effort committed to helping others. People do make their living working in non-profits but as any good church-goer knows, "the laborer is worthy" of their hire. Working that out in a manner that makes sense and serves the org's purposes can work in an honest way if that's the intent.
What makes people drop their pants when money's involved though? Good question.
Leadership - the whole idea of a training aspect to it serves a basic purpose - to improve the individual. "Leadership skills" make for a better person, in theory. Be a better person, skilled, capable in some aspects.
What's a leader do? "Lead" - what's it mean?
Training staff for an org. is one thing. Training "leaders" - it's a term that needs definition and perspective.
Slightly Went to a meeting last night. There is a "pastor" from a church in a nearby town. He was referring to a verse at the end of Hebrews about "submitting" to those who have leadership over you, because they watch for your souls as they that must give account." He breaks that into two words - sub/mission. If you agree, you are not "submitting" because you are not putting your own plan into effect, you're agreeing that the pastor's plan is correct. You "submit" when you deem your own "mission" of lower value to that of the pastor's.
My b-$h1t-ometer was going BEEP BEEP BEEP in a loud manner.
What about submitting ourselves one to another? What about the greatest servant being the greatest leader?
Where's the "loving" submission part?
Runs a bit counter to 1 Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
I don't doubt that we need "leaders" but they lead by example, not by accreting people to their fellowships, churches, or what-have-you. And the example they set is one of believing God and acting on His word.
The leadership training that we should have received should have been of people showing us by example how to act in any situation.
Kinda like this: Micah 6:8 KJV He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?
(well worth re-reading this chapter)
Actually, we did receive great leadership training. In what "it is not."
Recommended Posts
krys
Well they did train them to be sarcastic and to meddle in the affairs of their underlings. They trained them to get the underlings to do their child rearing and house cleaning. What more do you want?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
I can sprout alfalfa!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
OldSkool
Mmmm....stumped me with that one.
And that is absolutely essential to so many facets in life.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
krys
Old School - - ya know - - IF they wanted to become a class-A organization they would have taught at least some of the things you suggested. It seems it was easier to lead by throwing your weight around. In the end, IMHO that was the single thing that brought them down. Just magnify "throw your weight around" and extrapolate and you find the source of every single rape...and marriage destruction.
I have no doubt that most of those who went corps desires to serve bigger and better than they could otherwise. I really believe this is true. But I think there were some who saw a way to get through life on the backs of others and those are the ones many of us remember just because of the hurt they caused and the bad taste they left in our mouths.
There were many very good people who went corps. I know....I met many of them.....but if they had been taught just some of the things on your list, they all would have brought the love of God all over the country.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
chockfull
Leadership training? LMAO. As with most things TWI related, it's full of ego, elitism, and lack of substance.
What do they study? The WAY classes that they've already taken a dozen times. The STS tapes. And they work. Free slave labor. Oh, but they will tell you how you paying to be there doesn't cover the costs. They just conveniently forget, that even at minimum wage, you do more than earn your keep to cover the costs.
Do they have educated people teaching it? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAA
Do they have a curriculum? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Do they have courses? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Do they give out transcripts once you complete? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Here's the curriculum of one of the online degree colleges offerings lately for a Bacelor's Degree in Business Administration, which is kind of like your generic business degree:
Core Courses (each course 6 quarter credits unless noted)
BUS3004 - Developing a Business Perspective
BUS3010 - Fundamentals of Management and Leadership
BUS3020 - Fundamentals of E-Business
BUS3030 - Fundamentals of Marketing and Sales
BUS3040 - Fundamentals of Human Resource Management
BUS3050 - Fundamentals of Organizational Communication
BUS3060 - Fundamentals of Finance and Accounting
Required Specialization Courses
BUS4801 - Ethics and Enterprise
Specialization Courses (each course 6 quarter credits unless otherwise noted)
In addition, choose 42 quarter credits of upper-division Business courses.
Elective Courses
Choose 39 credits of additional undergraduate courses.
Capstone Course (taken during learner's final quarter)
BUS4993 - Business Capstone Project - 6 quarter credits
So here you have relevant coursework taught by qualified professors that follows a well-mapped education plan.
This is for an ONLINE UNIVERSITY - you know - where you can TAKE THE COURSES AT HOME!!!!
It's the newest version of the correspondance college - you know, like the one VPW got his PhD from. Except these colleges are much larger, have qualified staff, and a lot more going on.
The Way Corps training program? They teach you to be compliant to Rosalie. And the chain of command. That's about it. Not much going on there at all.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
this is pretty much the standard course, customized for business. Legitimate colleges have equivalent ethics courses for the engineering sciences as well.. along with social sciences.. medicine, etc..
why does da way seem to think they are exempt from this?
the only lessons in ethics they seem to get are from high power lawyers..
Link to comment
Share on other sites
OldSkool
Well, what little I know on the inner workings. The way international keeps some form of operating license / accreditation with the state of Colorado, where requirements are VERY lax. They make the students take the way of abundance class series multiple times throughout the year in order to meet minimum hours requirements required by the state. They cannot function solely out of the state of Ohio because the standards are way higher than Colorado. With Universities like Ohio State, and university of Cincinnati there is a lot of sunshine on any type of college operating in Ohio. So what does the way international do? They keep their "college" based out of Colorado and have the students living in Ohio where the in-residence way corps currently are training. They keep appearances, so to speak, by doing just enough out of Gunnison to keep the state happy. Lead for example.
In other words they are doing a shell game on the states of Colorado and Ohio. Their college is not legitimate. They do think they are exempt from that and a lot more.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Broken Arrow
Yeah, and you keep saying the whole thing was a waste of time. I mean, look at all these mundane skills you developed. Weren't you taught to keep your underwear drawer straight? That right there is worth the price of admission. I mean, a good leader has to have a neat underwear drawer, right? I bet the Apostle Peter could pull a pair of jockeys out of his drawer without even having to look.
Now, as for me, my underwear drawer was fine. I had a 4-year college degree, and I learned how to screw in lightbulbs. I mean all different kinds like 40 watt, 60 watt and on up the line. By the time it was over, I had progressed all the way up to replacing flourescent bulbs.
That really is leadership training because with TWI you needed to be adept at screwing over people if you wanted to be an effective leader.
Edited by Broken ArrowLink to comment
Share on other sites
Broken Arrow
At one time Howard taught a course called Practical Management. They would do goal setting, time management and the like. I'm not sure he even graduated from high school, I could be wrong about that. There was also a class called "Leadership Principles of Jesus Christ". As I recall, though, that was mostly a course on the gospels.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
OldSkool
Practical Management is no longer taught and was discontinued sometime ago. I read through the syllabus and it had some good pointers in it but was by no means a college level leadership course. I have personally worked with HA and there isn't too much going on there.
I have never heard of Leadership Principles of Jesus Christ. There have been so many classes discontinued over the years for one reason or another. It is no longer taught either. Sounds like it would have been a good class based on the title.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
so with all of this "dumbing down" not only "spiritually" but in practical matters..
this suggests to me that they aren't in the "business" of training leaders anymore..
No, no leaders. Nothing new, innovative. rosie runs them off like there's no tomorrow..
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
A corps grad once was talking to me, (AFTER the local leaders had split off from twi),
and was telling me about the concept of serving others, charitable works and so on,
and expounding on them like this was the first time in his life he'd ever heard of
such a thing, and that I'd never heard of them at all.
I replied (I was in college at the time) that I had already had several years of
experience in a service organization in college, and I'd already put in hundreds
of hours of community service if not thousands- adding that if he needed to get
some pointers on what works, he could ask me and I'd be glad to fill him in.
In other words, the entire time he and the corps were in, the concepts and practice
of SERVING OTHERS was foreign, and I learned MUCH more about it in college as
extracurricular activities than he did in a paid leadership program.
No training in actual leading, no training in serving others. Other than "how to be
subservient to twi", did the program ever really cover anything but busy-work,
occupying the students' time until they left? The more I think of how deficient and
dysfunctional the whole program was, the more impressed I am that anyone came out of
it able to help anyone at all, let alone some people surviving with their compassion
standing.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Oakspear
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Twinky
The Corps program was all about "the greatest leader is the greatest servant." All the time in Dishroom, cleaning out chicken pens, scrubbing toilets and such like was teaching us to be good servants. Therefore we could be better leaders.
For some people doing such things might wel have been a real shock. However, most of us know how to do these things though not at industrial levels.
We had to learn to follow directions (orders) before we could learn to give directions (orders). As it happens, most of us never learned enough to get to that stage. Only how to compel others to "follow" by the same oppressive measures.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Broken Arrow
Very very well said.
It was a good class, really just a very basic class on the gospels as I recall. Nothing wrong with that. I figure LCM got rid of it because he didn't think the gospels applied to our administration. That's just conjecture on my part.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
OldSkool
I understand, for one reason or another, LCM got rid of a lot of classes during his dark reign. I've been told that sometimes it had to do with who taught the material. Apparently, when his foes received the bum's rush (or left of their own accord) he would pull the material. I'm not saying that happened with this particular class. I just find it curios that between LCM, and Rosalie they have managed to decimate anything that would give appeal to their draconian system. It's like they went through and removed all the bait and left the hooks bare. But, agai, conjecture on my part as well.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
copenhagen
And this is leadership training? Is the title of the topic? What is it really?
I will start by saying my little son is afraid there are monsters in his closet. Every
night before bed we have to check just to make sure. Then an all-powerful night light must be turned on. We all know this powerful weapon can scare any monster, goblin or bogeyman away.
His older sibling thinks he is a baby. But this child is convinced that their teacher is on a mission
to cause this child to fail. This child thinks the teacher is out to get my child, with extra work and being pushed in class. I sat down with this teacher to find out the deal. Well this child reads 4 grades higher then their present grade and has scored off the charts on all the state testing and this teacher is just pushing and changeling my child. I am ok with that.
My point is, in someone’s mind perception is reality. The teacher is not out to get my child just like there are no monsters in the closet. BUT,BUT, if we are talking about perception and reality we were told, taught and beaten down with in the Way, a way corp. person has energized gift ministries. This is the trick and catch. Every a-hole corp. grad is revered as a revelation machine and walking with God. While lowly wayfers need to submit to leadership. No disrespect to the Corp program or grads of days gone past. Now days ALL CORP GRADS ARE ROBTS FOR ROSIE AND THE WAY. God caught the last train to the coast and any revelation is gone from the way.
Is being a way corp. grad leadership training? No it just gives you a title to keep the wayfers in line.
copenhagen
Link to comment
Share on other sites
penworks
This post raises a lot of questions. My favorite is: Why do Christians think they need a leader?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
Probably watched too many episodes of Mickey Mouse Club.
"Who's the leader of the club that's made for you and me?"
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Broken Arrow
Organizations need leaders. Otherwise everyone would be constantly re-inventing the wheel and repeating the same mistakes. Also, people need experienced one's to show how to live something out vocationally whether that "something" be management, parenthood, or whatever. Leaders are needed in organizations in order to give direction, sometimes correct, reprimand, and perhaps even purge those who would take an organization in an undesired direction.
Adults, including Christian adults, don't need leaders to make decisions for them regarding their personal lives. That is called freedom. A foreign concept to many.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
OldSkool
Good point. But where in the bible do we see the need for organizations? (not organization, but non-profit corporate entities that people are pressured into swearing their allegiance)
I know you are not advocating this, and perhaps this belongs in doctrinal. But the biggest hurdle I face re-involving myself with any type of group is overcoming my disdain for the "organization."
To me, modern Christianity places an inordinate value on the organization - even placing the organization between the Christian and Christ.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
The purpose of a PROPER Christian organization is to serve as the MEANS for one or more ENDS.
It is the TOOL for accomplishing a task.
All too often, it becomes the END IN ITSELF, and the organization exists to further the organization.
twi is a quintessential example of this, but it's hardly alone.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
socks
(not organization, but non-profit corporate entities that people are pressured into swearing their allegiance)
Don't get me started. :)
"Non-profits" do incredible amounts of good in our nation as I'm sure you know. Often populated by people giving their time, talent and money to support efforts to assist in areas of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness for those who can use and will use a leg up on their circumstance.
Involvement in these kinds of areas can be a resume' item for those who do it sure but it's a means to "pay it forward" and do good out of the good they have. Yet it's not typical to see those who make such efforts getting wealthy or accumulating personal volume through the org's. Sure, it happens and when we hear about it we're aghast. "That's so wrong!" we think, profiting from an effort committed to helping others. People do make their living working in non-profits but as any good church-goer knows, "the laborer is worthy" of their hire. Working that out in a manner that makes sense and serves the org's purposes can work in an honest way if that's the intent.
What makes people drop their pants when money's involved though? Good question.
Leadership - the whole idea of a training aspect to it serves a basic purpose - to improve the individual. "Leadership skills" make for a better person, in theory. Be a better person, skilled, capable in some aspects.
What's a leader do? "Lead" - what's it mean?
Training staff for an org. is one thing. Training "leaders" - it's a term that needs definition and perspective.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Twinky
Slightly
Went to a meeting last night. There is a "pastor" from a church in a nearby town. He was referring to a verse at the end of Hebrews about "submitting" to those who have leadership over you, because they watch for your souls as they that must give account." He breaks that into two words - sub/mission. If you agree, you are not "submitting" because you are not putting your own plan into effect, you're agreeing that the pastor's plan is correct. You "submit" when you deem your own "mission" of lower value to that of the pastor's.
My b-$h1t-ometer was going BEEP BEEP BEEP in a loud manner.
What about submitting ourselves one to another? What about the greatest servant being the greatest leader?
Where's the "loving" submission part?
Runs a bit counter to 1 Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
I don't doubt that we need "leaders" but they lead by example, not by accreting people to their fellowships, churches, or what-have-you. And the example they set is one of believing God and acting on His word.
The leadership training that we should have received should have been of people showing us by example how to act in any situation.
Kinda like this: Micah 6:8 KJV He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?
(well worth re-reading this chapter)
Actually, we did receive great leadership training. In what "it is not."
Edited by TwinkyLink to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.