New Nature, Fruit or Fruits?

[teachmevp]

What is new nature; Yeshua’s walk? Like I have the right to reason this walk, I fall short of it all day long, that walk is hard for me. It is a struggle to grow fruit, that new nature is planted in you, Yahweh planted it? You are old nature thanks to Adam’s doings, but in this day and time, a seed of a new nature, in which Yahweh plants into your old nature? “Who are in” those who are growing fruit, but that growing is on you, and you alone? Love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faithfulness, meekness, temperance, this is what we are trying to grow in our lives, we were not born with these, because these are one fruit, their in is the meaning of growing of fruit? Just somehow, someway, we work it out, because doing these things are not in our old nature, but that seed of new nature that Yahweh has planted in us, we struggle in our growth; each in their own struggle, and yet, their struggle is our struggle, we all share in the same struggles, in one form or other? One does not just grow love and temperance, and think they are growing fruits, because it is all of these things, love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faithfulness, meekness, temperance in one fruit; when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in new nature and truth?

I could be wrong on this, but it seems VeePee went for that fruits teaching, with that being fruits, it seems one is opened for being controlled? To be honest, I don’t know what VeePee taught on that fruits, but from what I have been learning at the Cafe, it sure seems VeePee’s actions showed he taught fruits?

It seems VeePee went with the broken up version of these nine things, because one of these nine parts of that fruit, is also tied into one of the nine manifestations of the power from on high? What a trip, power from on high is tied right into that fruit that we struggle to grow, faithfulness? Mind bidding, how that fruit got broke up into nine fruits, just seems what VeePee did with that fruits, I read a lot of hurt? Doesn’t it say, fan that power into a flame, faithfulness; the same faithfulness that you are growing in your fruit? Doesn’t it say, do not quench the power; not being faithful, not growing the fruit that is in you, being more faithful to that old nature, then that seed of new nature that has been planted in you? The growing of that fruit is on the person, and on the person alone before Yahweh?

Is the fruit of the new nature, fruit or fruits, what are your reasonings?

[teachmevp]

John 3:1-22;

And there was a man of the Pharisees there whose name was Nicodemus, a ruler of the Israelites, and he came to Yeshua by night, and said to him, “Teacher, we know that you are a teacher sent from Yahweh; for no man can do these miracles that you are doing, unless Yahweh is with him.” Yeshua replied, saying to him, “Truly I say to you, that, unless a man be born anew, he cannot behold the sovereignty of Yahweh.” Nicodemus said to him, “How can an old man be born? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?” Yeshua replied, saying to him, “Truly I say to you, that unless a man be born of water and new nature, he cannot enter the sovereignty of Yahweh. That which is born of the flesh, is flesh; and that which is born of new nature, is new nature. Be not surprised that I said to you, you must be born of new nature.” Nicodemus answered, saying to him, “How can these things be? Yeshua answered, saying to him, “Are you a teacher of Israel, and yet you do not understand these things? After these things, came Yeshua and his disciples into the land of Judah.

Here’s the record of this new nature, born a new?

Thanks for any insight on this, but remember, this is part of the story line of the four gospels

and the first chapter of Acts; this is during the Mosaic covenant? Under the Mosaic covenant,

would Yahweh send Yeshua to the world, not; to Israel, yes?

[Ham]

Is it possible that one is trying to force a tomato seed to produce an apple tree?

seeds are sown, are they not?

they don't exactly define themselves..

[teachmevp]

Is it possible that one is trying to force a tomato seed to produce an apple tree?

seeds are sown, are they not?

they don't exactly define themselves..

I got to stop saying "a seed of new nature", thanks for showing me that? I should be saying, "you are born anew with a new nature"?

I will chuck the seed thing, thanks buddy.

[Ham]

Don't "chuck it" on my account..

:)

other beliefs admit or allow what they call "walk ins".

walk ins to this existence..

generally, the thought is that whatever consciousness, or entity the person was, is no more. At least here..

is this generally the same as the concept of "born again"?

apparently to them it is..

I saw an interview of some guy.. the body was terminally ill.. and the claim was that he abandoned the body.. "something" took his place. The "something" knew enough about some herbal remedies and stuff.. the former "owner" didn't have a clue. Couldn't speak chinese either..

but this character, who or whatever he/it/she/they is/was/were.. knew where to go to find the cure..

just a few thoughts.

maybe I should have been a little more careful with my wording.. seeds generally do define themselves..

They just are what they are..

[Ham]

ha! well. there are some thoughts of those among us..

we are all a product of spilling of some of God's blood..

now wouldn't every drop, however small, be rather unique?

they broke the mold, every time one of us came to be..

I really don't think we had a creator, who envisioned a multitude of mini mes..

I think it was far too great a sacrifice for something so non consequential..

[Ham]

maybe I shouldn't say more..

It's been *kazillions* of years. The physicists in our era are starting to figure out how long.. which is really *cool*..

but what's happened since then?

Well.. we've meandered about the cosmos.. formed groups, committees, alliances, agreements..

and the general rule is we don't remember the lifetime that came before..

or the mindless (sometimes) committees and agreements..

scary thoughts, no?

I dunno. Maybe its nuts.. but how about anybody elses religion?

I don't think there is not a single individual here.. that does not have some impression of what it was like to come into this existence..

I love this place.. it is probably one of the fewest places in the world that fundamentalist (fill in the religious blank) don't try to beat the snot out of me..

[teachmevp]

You tried to show me this seed thing before awhile back, but I forgot the thread; you are

on to something here? I like GreaseSpot learning, I can throw it out their the best I can, I

know in my heart that the Cafe will help me out? It is what you said before, about this seed

thing before this, I think you said something like VeePee taught about some seed thing; I think

I remember that teaching, so I throw that seed whatever out their, I should have saw what you

said the first time, but I'm not the sharpest crayon in the box. What is cool about all this, if we

are right, who knows, maybe the Way will have to rewrite their books, Paw is not going to let

the Way steal our reasonings, they are the Cafe's? Thanks for the learning.

[teachmevp]

It is also crazy how this power from on high is tied into this new nature, their in Galatians 5:22;

you are on to something, because it is on the person to produce what that new nature is capable

of; but that power from on high that is in us, works a whole lot better if one is doing what one is

capable of, the best one can? That power from Yahweh is no seed, so we would have to be born

anew with this new nature; through our struggles through life, somehow we produce fruit?

[Tom]

For what it is worth (its worth I'm not really considering at the moment), VP taught that the fruit of the spirit is a clump.

I don't consider that the spirit is something we get freely, but, then the fruit is something we do of ourselves. That's just works.

As we walk in the Spirit, the fruit results. Its like I'm driving down the highway of the Spirit, & one of the exits is lust. If I just keep driving down the highway of the Spirit, the result is I don't engage in lust. It is not a big deal accomplishment of the discipline of my flesh (in which resides the sentence of death). It is just a result of driving on the highway. I don't know if that is called patience or longsuffering - both of the fruit of the Spirit, but it is NOT something I DO. It is just a result of walking the way of the Spirit rather than the flesh.

It's a good deal.

I guess in present company, I should say that I also don't think that the walk in the Spirit is something that I operate at my option. That is a 180 degree lie that VP taught. The energizings of the Spirit are clearly God's operations at His option. We just believe that God is working in us to will and to do of His good pleasure. Jesus said he worked as God worked. Jesus told us that when we got the Spirit, we should do what he was doing. God doesn't work as we work. We work as He does. We participate in what God is doing according to our will to do so.

[Gen-2]

Fruit, fruits,....... <grin>

It's an "in for the penny, in for the pound" kind of thing as I see it. It's of the Spirit.

I look at it as the reward I never really notice for doing things right. I should notice.

I guess sometimes I do. My experience, though, is - that other people notice - before I do.

Sad, but true.

[Tom]

Fruit, fruits,....... <grin>

It's an "in for the penny, in for the pound" kind of thing as I see it. It's of the Spirit.

I look at it as the reward I never really notice for doing things right. I should notice.

I guess sometimes I do. My experience, though, is - that other people notice - before I do.

Sad, but true.

Hi gen - the beauty of your presence. Long time no see.

RE: noticing things:

I remember once when I realized we could receive revelation by feeling. I had never experienced that, & I told God I wanted to know how to do that. I had been taught that God was the great teacher more willing to show us than we were to receive, so I had no doubt that he would show me, but wow, how he showed me. Three days later, I was sick as a dog, & in charge of a PFAL film class. This girl/young woman showed up for the class. During the break, while speaking with her, I realized whe was very sick & asked her if she wanted me to minister healing to her. She said yes, & I did.

The first thing that happened after I thanked God for her healing was that I felt this overpowering fever & thought I might fall down from the result. I thought - how can I possibly minister to her when I am so sick myself. But I perservered, & asked God what I should minister to. I got no direction. I kept asking & got a big nothing. I was about to tell her I was in no condition to minister, but then I thought, maybe this feeling is from God & thanked God for removing the fever. It was gone immediately, but then I felt such a heavy feeling in my legs that I thought I could not stand to do this. Again as I thought I received no further direction, I just thanked God for removing the heavy feeling in the legs. Well, this kind of thing went on for a full 15 minutes. When there were no other feelings of sickness, I just thanked God for her wholeness & ended the ministering. She said thanks & was about to go into the class which was in session, but I just had to ask her - because I had not idea if I had done this right, "How well did I do?" wierd question from the one doing the ministering, I know - and you think I would know, but I had no idea & had to ask.

She said I did great. I hit every thing that was wrong with her. I hit it just when it seemed to be hitting her most, & it immediately left her. She felt great & was delivered from everthing that was bothering her.

Well, I have to tell you, the fruit of the Spirit so welled up in me. It really was Christ in me. I could really take within my Spirit the infirmities of others like Christ did. I was blown away. But I never would have experienced that fruit of the Spirit had I not asked her how well I did. The fruit was there, but I would not have realized it without her feedback.

Now, I know - I no longer need the feedback of others to enjoy the fruit. But the feedback is still cool. Your engagement in the operations of God working within you is a function of your believing that, as He says, He is doing so. Your enjoyment of the fruit is likewise a function of your beliving that he just did really work within you. God confirms his work at work within you. If others realize it before you or not - both are cool. It is a family affair.

Tom

[Steve Lortz]

Thanks for sharing that, Tom!

Love,

Steve

Edited November 7, 2010 by Steve Lortz

[Tom]

Had one of those ah ha moments today. Felt pretty stupid afterwards, like how did it take me so long, but here it is. I had a friend ask me how I was doing. I answered how bad can I be doing when there are rivers of living water flowing out of my belly. Then I remembered that God is a fountain of living waters & realized that it is God flowing out of my innermost being.

I don’t know, it was a rather remarkable realization for me.

God flowing out of us - how's that for fruit?

[teachmevp]

Had one of those ah ha moments today. Felt pretty stupid afterwards, like how did it take me so long, but here it is. I had a friend ask me how I was doing. I answered how bad can I be doing when there are rivers of living water flowing out of my belly. Then I remembered that God is a fountain of living waters & realized that it is God flowing out of my innermost being.

I don’t know, it was a rather remarkable realization for me.

God flowing out of us - how's that for fruit?

The error is as deep as the nature of man, one cannot expect any deliverance from it,

so long as the nature of man continues the same, and one's natural love of truth almost

as depraved as one's natural love of holiness.

Nicodemus said to Yeshua, "Teacher, we now that you are a teacher sent from Yahweh; for no man

can do these miracles that you are doing, unless Yahweh is with him." Yeshua replied, saying to him,

"Truly I say to you, that, unless a man be born anew, he cannot behold the sovereignty of Yahweh."

Nicodemus said to him, "How can an old man be born? Can he enter a second time into his mother's

womb, and be born?" Yeshua replied, saying to him, "Truly I say to you, that, unless a man be born

of water and new nature, he cannot enter the sovereignty of Yahweh. That which is born of the flesh,

is flesh; and that which is born of new nature, is new nature. Be not surprised that I said to you, you

must be born of new nature." Nicodemus answered, saying to him, "How can these things be?"

Born anew with a new nature, producing fruit their in Gal. 5, now that is real fruit?

[cman]

The error is as deep as the nature of man, one cannot expect any deliverance from it,

so long as the nature of man continues the same, and one's natural love of truth almost

as depraved as one's natural love of holiness.

I disagree, in fact this is what is sought, and not found or faced.

Edited November 22, 2010 by cman

[teachmevp]

I think I see what your saying on sought, tell me more; but it seems, once one has what is sought

has been reached, this new nature is on the person, growing it somehow is what one faces day in

and day out, we all get to have that struggle. We could say, faithfulness is part of the fruit, our

faithfulness in growing in that new nature. I guess we will be known by our fruit.

[Ham]

what is new nature, when all one can possibly be is old nature..

[teachmevp]

what is new nature, when all one can possibly be is old nature..

I used to call this new nature a seed planted in one, but you showed me it couldn't be a seed; born anew.

Galatians 5:22= Is the fruit produced when one is faithful in walking towards that new; as opposed to

walking toward that old. VeePee taught that spirit thing about that Galatians 5:22, when one is walking

toward that new, no one can take them on a spiritual joy ride. One is born into this world in that old nature,

how cool it is to be able to be born anew with that new nature.