Don't know many druids types--my area pagans tend to be Wiccan-ish, Native American or Asatru (Germanic/Norse)or a mix of all three. I'm expecting to see the Wapiti Full Moon Freya Circle announced any day now.
My best pagan friend is a bruja--Latino witch. She comes from a fundie group called the Chapel--and we have eeriiy similar wacko stories.
Interesting that the repeal of the witchcraft laws in England(early fifties?) opened the doors to the modern pagan/Wiccan movement.
Organizing a pagan group is often referred to as 'herding cats.' Everyone DOES have a doctrine and a mouth, so there is negotiation and compromise. Obedience isn't generally a requirement, which keeps some cult types at bay. Agreement is helpful for getting things done--a common vision.
Many prefer the peace of their own backyard, and in my opinion that is how it should be. A couple or three events a year is plenty.
At least that has been my experience.
Went to a pagan wedding recently. The bride made all the clothes for the wedding party out of recycled/used clothing. Bridesmaid's dresses were made from t shirts and dyed purple. Very cute and memorable.
Don't know about witchcraft law repeal, I'll check it out. I do think that a lot of people (almost always women) were just folk with a knowledge of herbs and their healing properties. Medieval magic - gosh, you healed someone with those herbs, must be magic, let's dunk you till you drown (big pharma at work even then!).
No idea what druids are supposed to be. A lot of strange people do odd things at Stonehenge and like places at certain times of the year like midsummer and solstice. I doubt there is anything at all historic in what they do. Modern fantasies and rituals to be a bit different, I think.
Personally, I find it a shame that the Associated Press began this story
with such an error in the first sentence.
Modern "druids" are not practicing the same religion as the "original druids."
The originals did not leave written records!
This article seems to say there's an UNBROKEN HISTORICAL CHAIN
between the modern "druids" and the ancient "druids."
=====================================
"LONDON — The ancient pagan tradition of Druidry has been formally recognized as a religion in Britain — a decision its followers hailed Saturday as as a long-overdue status for the worship of spirits and the natural world."
"Druids have practiced for thousands of years in Britain, worshipping natural forces such as thunder and the sun, and spirits they believe arise from places such as mountains and rivers."
======================================
Mind you, I think these guys can worship however they wish, and if they want
to consider themselves a modern successor to ancient Druids, I think that's fine.
(Some Christians consider themselves modern successors to first-Century AD
Christianity, so it's only fair....)
I find rewriting history, however, to be inappropriate.
Don't know about witchcraft law repeal, I'll check it out. I do think that a lot of people (almost always women) were just folk with a knowledge of herbs and their healing properties. Medieval magic - gosh, you healed someone with those herbs, must be magic, let's dunk you till you drown (big pharma at work even then!).
No idea what druids are supposed to be. A lot of strange people do odd things at Stonehenge and like places at certain times of the year like midsummer and solstice. I doubt there is anything at all historic in what they do. Modern fantasies and rituals to be a bit different, I think.
In a lot of cases, you didn't even have to know anything about herbalism or first aid.
Accusations of witchcraft (almost always women) didn't need anything factual to be pegged to
any more than a lack of popularity and political influence on behalf of the accused.
Accusations of lycanthropy/werewolves (almost always men) didn't need anything factual to be
pegged to any more than a lack of popularity and political influence on behalf of the accused.
The "witch hunts" and the Spanish Inquisition served both to unite the locals by giving them
a manufactured "outsider" to dislike,
and to bring lots of confiscated goods and property to those running the show.
In a lot of cases, you didn't even have to know anything about herbalism or first aid.
Accusations of witchcraft (almost always women) didn't need anything factual to be pegged to
any more than a lack of popularity and political influence on behalf of the accused.
Accusations of lycanthropy/werewolves (almost always men) didn't need anything factual to be
pegged to any more than a lack of popularity and political influence on behalf of the accused.
The "witch hunts" and the Spanish Inquisition served both to unite the locals by giving them
a manufactured "outsider" to dislike,
and to bring lots of confiscated goods and property to those running the show.
They were quite profitable.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but under English law at that time a person was presumed guilty unless proven innocent. So Wordwolf is spot on when he says that accusing one of being a witch or werewolf required nothing factual, yet the accused were required to produce something factual if they were to prove their innocence. In cases such as these that would have been impossible. If you were accused of witchcraft and you didn't have friends in high places, you were a goner, man.
Them as wants to, can conduct their own research into ancient means of determining right and wrong. European law is based on Roman law; English & Welsh law is different; Scottish law is different agan. Standards have varied through the ages. Not really what this thread is about.
There seems to be a resurgence of people claiming to be "white witches" and interest in "spells" and "magic". Not sure whether this is the desire to be "different" or a genuine seeking after the spiritual side of life.
But then: some people are just plain wacky. And some are mocking. Some recent census forms (including the one that we are to complete in 2011) include under their Religion section: Jedi. Census Jedi The census people leave in because it does get some people to complete the census forms. Of course, what it says for the quality of their responses to other questions is debatable.
There seems to be a resurgence of people claiming to be "white witches" and interest in "spells" and "magic". Not sure whether this is the desire to be "different" or a genuine seeking after the spiritual side of life.
Wicca is a recognized religion in the US and has been around for some decades now. Don't really know if there has been a 'resurgence.' What an individuals motives maybe for their involvement in Wicca/ witchcraft, pagan faiths can vary greatly. Most of those I know personally are middle aged, from a Christian faith originally, and thoughtful.
At my former job I worked o a team of 24 people,4 of them were Wiccan /pagan... don't know if this is typical at all.
religioustolerance.org is a goof site for accurate info on other faiths/beliefs etc
WordWolf made the point about there being no unbroken chain between ancient druids and modern druids, which from everything I have read is correct. Druids didn't leave written records, so all we have to go in on modern times is what others (like Julius Caesar) wrote or by making educated guesses.
One of things that irritate me about many adherents of neo-pagan faith systems is when a gap like that is supposedly bridged by a movement's founder receiving information from spirits, gods, ascended masters et al. I don't know how many books I've read or by people claiming to know the details of ancient practices because of some supernatural connection. I've also talked to people who claim first-hand information from the otherworld reconstructing old and forgotten rituals, who look me straight in the eye and tell me that's the way it is. Okay, freedom of religion and thought and all that, but these same people will mock the Abrahamic religions for adhering to second-hand revelation, i.e. a "holy book.
Someone asked about reasons and motivations for people becoming witches, druids etc. I would imagine some just like being different, but most of those whom I know feel that this is a spiritual path that calls out to them.
I don't identify with any organized tradition but I do incorporate many pagan values into my life and accept teaching from various people. I observe the Wheel of the Year and honor various deities. I don't look or act overtly different, it's all on the inside.
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Bramble
Thanks twinky, v kind to post.
Don't know many druids types--my area pagans tend to be Wiccan-ish, Native American or Asatru (Germanic/Norse)or a mix of all three. I'm expecting to see the Wapiti Full Moon Freya Circle announced any day now.
My best pagan friend is a bruja--Latino witch. She comes from a fundie group called the Chapel--and we have eeriiy similar wacko stories.
Interesting that the repeal of the witchcraft laws in England(early fifties?) opened the doors to the modern pagan/Wiccan movement.
Organizing a pagan group is often referred to as 'herding cats.' Everyone DOES have a doctrine and a mouth, so there is negotiation and compromise. Obedience isn't generally a requirement, which keeps some cult types at bay. Agreement is helpful for getting things done--a common vision.
Many prefer the peace of their own backyard, and in my opinion that is how it should be. A couple or three events a year is plenty.
At least that has been my experience.
Went to a pagan wedding recently. The bride made all the clothes for the wedding party out of recycled/used clothing. Bridesmaid's dresses were made from t shirts and dyed purple. Very cute and memorable.
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Twinky
A fundie pagan/witch group???
Sounds like crossed broomsticks at dawn!
Don't know about witchcraft law repeal, I'll check it out. I do think that a lot of people (almost always women) were just folk with a knowledge of herbs and their healing properties. Medieval magic - gosh, you healed someone with those herbs, must be magic, let's dunk you till you drown (big pharma at work even then!).
No idea what druids are supposed to be. A lot of strange people do odd things at Stonehenge and like places at certain times of the year like midsummer and solstice. I doubt there is anything at all historic in what they do. Modern fantasies and rituals to be a bit different, I think.
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Twinky
A link in case anyonoe's interested. "Official druid website"
Good swipe at Christians part way down.
Link to OBOD near the bottom which takes you to another website where ultimately you can learn about the seven gifts of druidism.
And some of it looks like "cult language." Their special way of putting things.
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Bramble
My friend came out of a fundie Christian group called the Chapel, somewhere in the NE. Her horror stories much like TWI stories here on GSC.
I don't know much about druids and there are probably dozens of different types.
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WordWolf
Personally, I find it a shame that the Associated Press began this story
with such an error in the first sentence.
Modern "druids" are not practicing the same religion as the "original druids."
The originals did not leave written records!
This article seems to say there's an UNBROKEN HISTORICAL CHAIN
between the modern "druids" and the ancient "druids."
=====================================
"LONDON — The ancient pagan tradition of Druidry has been formally recognized as a religion in Britain — a decision its followers hailed Saturday as as a long-overdue status for the worship of spirits and the natural world."
"Druids have practiced for thousands of years in Britain, worshipping natural forces such as thunder and the sun, and spirits they believe arise from places such as mountains and rivers."
======================================
Mind you, I think these guys can worship however they wish, and if they want
to consider themselves a modern successor to ancient Druids, I think that's fine.
(Some Christians consider themselves modern successors to first-Century AD
Christianity, so it's only fair....)
I find rewriting history, however, to be inappropriate.
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WordWolf
In a lot of cases, you didn't even have to know anything about herbalism or first aid.
Accusations of witchcraft (almost always women) didn't need anything factual to be pegged to
any more than a lack of popularity and political influence on behalf of the accused.
Accusations of lycanthropy/werewolves (almost always men) didn't need anything factual to be
pegged to any more than a lack of popularity and political influence on behalf of the accused.
The "witch hunts" and the Spanish Inquisition served both to unite the locals by giving them
a manufactured "outsider" to dislike,
and to bring lots of confiscated goods and property to those running the show.
They were quite profitable.
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Broken Arrow
Correct me if I'm wrong, but under English law at that time a person was presumed guilty unless proven innocent. So Wordwolf is spot on when he says that accusing one of being a witch or werewolf required nothing factual, yet the accused were required to produce something factual if they were to prove their innocence. In cases such as these that would have been impossible. If you were accused of witchcraft and you didn't have friends in high places, you were a goner, man.
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Twinky
Them as wants to, can conduct their own research into ancient means of determining right and wrong. European law is based on Roman law; English & Welsh law is different; Scottish law is different agan. Standards have varied through the ages. Not really what this thread is about.
There seems to be a resurgence of people claiming to be "white witches" and interest in "spells" and "magic". Not sure whether this is the desire to be "different" or a genuine seeking after the spiritual side of life.
But then: some people are just plain wacky. And some are mocking. Some recent census forms (including the one that we are to complete in 2011) include under their Religion section: Jedi. Census Jedi The census people leave in because it does get some people to complete the census forms. Of course, what it says for the quality of their responses to other questions is debatable.
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WordWolf
So-called "witch hunts" in Europe were hardly confined to Great Britain.
They stretched all across Western and Eastern Europe to different degrees.
France had some famous werewolf panics (primarily the Beast of Gevaudan),
and the Spanish Inquisition (bet you didn't expect me to mention them)
grew into a formal organization. To my thinking, the most odd case of all
was out East in Livonia, where a man freely claimed he was a werewolf,
and firmly held forth that he served God AS a werewolf.
Even the Inquisition wasn't sure what to do about THAT guy.
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Twinky
Spanish Inquisition? (and yes, Wordie, I did expect you to mention that).
I thought that was headed up by a guy named L1nder?
I notice you don't mention the Salem witch trials but only European ones.
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WordWolf
Looks like SOMEONE expected the Spanish Inquisition.
(So much for their chief weapon...)
Compared to the European witch panics, the handful of people terrorized and/or
killed in New England was strictly Amateur Hour.
Besides, I figured we all heard about them in school but the ones in Europe
tend to be glossed over here. IIRC, there were about 17 victims in Salem in a short time,
and thousands across Western and Eastern Europe across decades. To hear the way our history
classes cover them, you'd think the numbers were approximately equal.
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Twinky
No disputing man's inhumanity to (wo)man.
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Bramble
Wicca is a recognized religion in the US and has been around for some decades now. Don't really know if there has been a 'resurgence.' What an individuals motives maybe for their involvement in Wicca/ witchcraft, pagan faiths can vary greatly. Most of those I know personally are middle aged, from a Christian faith originally, and thoughtful.
At my former job I worked o a team of 24 people,4 of them were Wiccan /pagan... don't know if this is typical at all.
religioustolerance.org is a goof site for accurate info on other faiths/beliefs etc
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Oakspear
WordWolf made the point about there being no unbroken chain between ancient druids and modern druids, which from everything I have read is correct. Druids didn't leave written records, so all we have to go in on modern times is what others (like Julius Caesar) wrote or by making educated guesses.
One of things that irritate me about many adherents of neo-pagan faith systems is when a gap like that is supposedly bridged by a movement's founder receiving information from spirits, gods, ascended masters et al. I don't know how many books I've read or by people claiming to know the details of ancient practices because of some supernatural connection. I've also talked to people who claim first-hand information from the otherworld reconstructing old and forgotten rituals, who look me straight in the eye and tell me that's the way it is. Okay, freedom of religion and thought and all that, but these same people will mock the Abrahamic religions for adhering to second-hand revelation, i.e. a "holy book.
Someone asked about reasons and motivations for people becoming witches, druids etc. I would imagine some just like being different, but most of those whom I know feel that this is a spiritual path that calls out to them.
I don't identify with any organized tradition but I do incorporate many pagan values into my life and accept teaching from various people. I observe the Wheel of the Year and honor various deities. I don't look or act overtly different, it's all on the inside.
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