Logos?

[teachmevp]

I challenge this Logos, this Logos meaning does not belong in our Father’s word; this Logos meaning has been added! The storyline of the first five chapters of John is during the Mosaic Covenant, no way, one is going to reason Logos into the law? I see we have a lot of Logos fans, please don’t let me offend anyone, I see why VeePee hung on to a teaching of Logos, the money? Their are a lot of Logos teachers out their, but not one of them will come before the GreaseSpot Cafe with their reasonings, like you see these reasonings? This is the only honest thing to do, come before the GreaseSpot Cafe, present one’s reasonings, if their flawed, one will correct their reasonings before the Cafe?

Thanks to the reasonings of the people of the GreaseSpot Cafe, it can be established, because no one has unestablished this, that we start reading the first five chapters of John, after Matthews 4:11. It’s been established, because no one has unestablished this, that John 1:1-1:5 is showing us the wisdom of Yahweh, the wisdom of what Yahweh has accomplished in allowing Satan to tempt Yeshua, wasn’t Satan allowed to tempt Adam; could it be that is why the tree of knowledge of good and evil was also in that garden? What if Adam and Eve had kids, would their kids get to eat off the tree of life, just seems that Satan had a sense of urgency, when he was talking to Eve? The crazy thing about these two men, Adam and Yeshua, that they both had pure blood, Yeshua was truly, the second Adam. Look at the wisdom of Yahweh, how Yahweh allowed the second Adam to go through all of that, 40 days and 40 nights, those six temptations of Satan; the second Adam didn’t get tricked. Had the first Adam said to Eve, no, their kids might have gotten to eat from the tree of life; but the people of this earth got robbed from what that tree of life does?

Your Logos vs. The Second Adam

[teachmevp]

Yahweh’s wisdom of the twelve constellations, in which three constellations are assigned to each one of the twelve constellations, thirty-six constellations, plus the twelve constellations, make forty-eight? Yahweh’s wisdom to tell a story before Satan’s eyes, of someone to come with the stars of these forty-eight constellations? Virgo and it’s three constellations, Coma, Centaurus, and Bootes; Libra and it’s three constellations, Crux, Lupus, and Corona; Scorpio and it’s three constellations, Serpens, Ophiuchus, and Hercules, check out Yahweh’s wisdom put forth in the story of these stars, before it even happened? So why then did the Greeks change Libra from the Alter, to a set of scales or something like that? Why should we trust the Greeks Logos, why did they change the meaning of Libra? I thought the Claws of Scorpio are trying to get the Alter, the story of these stars were known before the Greeks came around? After all, look at what Lucifer did in the garden, when the earth was in the first heaven, where was Logos on that day, when Lucifer pulled his stunt in that garden, was Yahweh’s Logos hurt?

[cman]

hm, I can think differently then your first post

I don't think the first Adam got tricked at all.

Which includes Eve.

As the last does in labor bringing forth children.

so shall a man be joined to his wife....

the first is last and the last first

It’s been established, because no one has unestablished this

To believe something cause you haven't heard something?

Maybe no one has said much,

but they have, in new tongues,

looking and listening for the new eye and ear and mind,

watching cause that which is conceived will be born.

There is not any that can stop the life in the light.

There is more then twelve constellations.

And we will pass through them with the Sun.

Edited September 26, 2010 by cman

[teachmevp]

What is the life in the light?

[waysider]

I challenge this Logos, this Logos meaning does not belong in our Father’s word; this Logos meaning has been added!

ETC.

I really don't have a dog in this fight because, honestly, I don't really care anymore. I am curious, however, what criteria you have used to make such a declatation.

[teachmevp]

what criteria you have

I had PFAL, for what that is worth?

Edited September 26, 2010 by teachmevp

[cman]

What is the life in the light?

The same life that is in the darkness.

That's a place to start, if you want to look.

An inner thing mostly, with help.

[teachmevp]

an inner thing mostly

That inner thing is a day in and a day out struggle, but we struggle away?

I think see what your saying, how does ones light shine, within the darkness

of ones old nature?

[teachmevp]

Maybe that is what John 4;23 is saying, in new nature; how do we grow our

new nature that has been planted within our old nature, that is a struggle we

each struggle with? The meaning of Logos has never been planted in our old

nature, nor did the second Adam offer his blood in heaven itself, for the meaning

of Logos? Don't forget the Mosaic Covenant is going on in the storyline of the first

five chapters of John?

[teachmevp]

I wonder, the 24 elders in heaven, they wear a gold crown; Yeshua the Messiah, who

sets on the right hand of Yahweh, also wears a gold crown; are the 24 elders a part of

Logos too? Maybe that is why Yahweh had John write Revelations last, surly the Greeks

knew about them their 24 elders, how far forward to you Logos buffs take Logos, to the

New Jerusalem?

[cman]

We can do things to stop the new nature, sometime.

That time will end though.

It's more like letting it happen now, to me.

Cause we all can be enlightened and see more.

As well as in our heart, let the fruit be.

Some will see as seers and some will not yet.

There's no real pressure to achieve results.

But a certain mind to steer, and look into the darkness.

To see the light from which it shines.

[teachmevp]

Well said cman, that is a deep thought? Trying to steer my mind from the old nature, which

is my darkness; but a new nature has been planted in me, it is a struggle to grow that new

nature. Maybe in my struggling through this life, I might get that life in John 1:4, that is light

to me, to get that life. The second Adam got that life in John 5:26, I got a shot at that life, the

first Adam did not stand his ground, and I got robbed, but it is up to me to grow that new nature.

It is up to each one of us to grow that new nature, which has been planted in our old nature; that

new nature is not inherit, that new nature has been planted by Yahweh within each of us, that new

nature is up to each one to grow? What is so cool about this new nature, the wisdom of Yahweh,

not the Logos of Yahweh, but the wisdom of Yahweh made this possible for us, Yeshua was his Father's

little buck-a-roo, we can be oor Father's little buck-a-roos too?

[cman]

not sure what you are meaning here

Trying to steer my mind from the old nature, which

is my darkness; but a new nature has been planted in me, it is a struggle to grow that new

nature.

if you think of the old as a covering of the new

you'll sleep better

like the shell of a seed is the old

while inside is Christ, the new mind

which does break through sometimes

on it's own in it's time....

[teachmevp]

not sure what you are meaning here

I try to keep warm with my new nature, the old nature is cold,

I'm struggling to keep my conscious clear. My old nature, plus

my worldly thinking, equals mud; but that new nature has been

planted in me, so I struggle to keep warm, I struggle to keep my

mind right, I struggle to grow fruit, but I struggle on. The ball is

in my court, what I do with what has been planted in me, is up to

me; how I think, is up to me, but I will be known by my fruit. No way

around that fruit, people will know one by their fruit?

Could Logos teach that, on it's own in it's time....?

[teachmevp]

Don't Logos seem to like, make Yahweh a tyrant? Did Lucifer go against Logos,

like Lucifer is going to take on three Logos looking dudes? Their is nothing in

the stars about this Logos, funny how the greek dudes that came up with Logos,

changed the means of some of the stars? I may be wrong, but I don't see how you

Logos buff's are going to get around the stars, you don't mind if I change back Libra

back to the Alter, why did your greek teachers change Libra to scales, or whatever it is?

Roberterasmus knows I will change all of this if I'm wrong, look at what he taught us in

that Mansions thread? I can throw this Logos out to the Cafe, because the smartest researchers

on the face of the earth are in the Cafe, and I don't see Logos having too much legs to stand on?

One can Martindale me, one can call me crazy, but I know their are way smarter people in the

GreaseSpot Cafe then me; no go, Logos?

[teachmevp]

Wisdom was in the beginning, not logos; I say it is safe to say,

logos is a meaning of men, Yahweh didn't put logos in John 1:1.

Their is no way anyone can reason logos into Yahweh's word, I

would say, it is safe to say, Wisdom was in the beginning, not

the meaning of logos! Man and their little tricks in Yahweh's word,

logos, what junk! So I stand before the Cafe and say, Wisdom was

in the beginning, in John 1:1, logos is a greek meaning, added to Yahweh's

word!

[Jbarrax]

Wisdom was in the beginning, not logos; I say it is safe to say,

logos is a meaning of men, Yahweh didn't put logos in John 1:1.

Their is no way anyone can reason logos into Yahweh's word, I

would say, it is safe to say, Wisdom was in the beginning, not

the meaning of logos! Man and their little tricks in Yahweh's word,

logos, what junk! So I stand before the Cafe and say, Wisdom was

in the beginning, in John 1:1, logos is a greek meaning, added to Yahweh's

word!

You still have not made one specific argument as to WHY the word "logos" doesn't fit. It's unreasonable to make such bold claims without specific arguments. What problem does logos cause in the context? What other specific biblical truth does it contradict?

Edited September 30, 2010 by Jbarrax

[teachmevp]

The Israelites had a specific worldview, and they imposed that worldview; that

radical new world view was monotheism. During the late bronze age, were the

greeks Arameans? What came through Isaac's seed?

[teachmevp]

Abram was told by Yahweh he is going to be the father of great nations, and he has a barren wife?

This happen during the late broze age, the suzerainty covenant, did the greeks have a suzerainty covenant?

Was logos thought of in the late bronze age? Where in the midst of the greeks, is Yahweh going to cause his

name to dwell?

Edited September 30, 2010 by teachmevp

[teachmevp]

The contradiction is in the fact that they put logos in John 1:1, bad move, John 1:1 is

during the Mosaic covenant, logos is against the law, according to the law? Whatever

logos means to the greeks, cool; but to add logos to the historical facts of a people, who's

formation of a nation, is in covenant with Yahweh? What gives the right for the historical facts

of the greeks to add their history, to a people that are in covenant to Yahweh? John 1:1 is during

the Mosaic covenant?

[teachmevp]

Specific Arguent--I guess I would say, the torah, was the torah translated to hebrew, from the greek

translation, or was the torah written in hebrew? Funny how the greeks needed a greek translation of

the torah? The torah tells us of the history of a people in covenant to Yahweh, all this is for are learning and

understanding, their in romans; specific arguent, the greeks were gentiles? Also in romans, the gentiles were

without Yahweh and hope during the storyline of John 1:1? So what is said in romans, contradicts John 1:1;

add logos and their are bad contradictions, that could be a specific arguent? I'm doing my best, hang in there

with me on this, if I am wrong I will change it; but that Abram, what a heart, but wasn't greek?

[Sunesis]

Hello Teachme, how are you? :)

I did post on another thread regarding the Logos and why it was an important concept for a Greek/Roman person. I stated I believed it was not a coincidence in the time period in which Jesus was inserted in human history. I stated I believed the Gospel of John was written to people of the world showing who Jesus was. I believe it was aimed at a "gentile" because it explains many of the things said and done, and gives background on Jewish traditions and explanations, where a Jewish person reading would need no explanation. That's why there is a theory it is the "Gospel to the World" so to speak.

I also stated that in that time, to a Greek they would read and the Logos concept in this context would have a huge impact on someone. Then a person asked, how so? So, here's my answer. This is what I tend to believe Logos is and why it was a great choice to introduce an unbelieving Greek/Hellinistic person, to Christ.

Here goes:

First, some background:

Once upon a time, the Greeks broke away from mythology as their world view and turned to reason and evidence as their world view aided by various philosophers. Now, with this new world view in mind, they began a quest to find the underlying cause of the cosmos - this was "Logos." The underlying cause of the cosmos became the "Logos."

We also have Plato's thoughts (revelation?) of forms and ideas that says: things in the physical world are "forms" in the physical world, but the true substance, is in heaven - we are a form that is a manifestation of our "true human essence" which is heavenly, so to speak. We are not the "real" deal. We are not the ultimate reality. The ultimate reality is not this world - but the forms in the physical world reflect the reality of the Cosmos - God's world. For example, take my cat. He is here, I love him - but what is his true essence? What is the true "essence" of Cat? What is God's reality of "Cat"? If I saw "cat essence" in heaven - the true reality - I would be blown away. Cats in the physical realm are copies, or forms, of the original, true, heavenly reality.

Just as God said, "let us make man in our image" our true essence is heavenly.

Heraclitus, around 500 bc defined logos as "God's reason."

Philo's use of logos around 25 bc included references to Plato's world of Forms, the mind of God.

Logos was the ultimate underlying form, essence, or reason of the cosmos. It is what holds everything together.

Look at it this way: God is a mind, an idea. Out from him, like a telescope, comes Logos - the unifying principle of everything, but it is manifest - it is the idea, the mind of God come to life - a manifestation. It created the heaven and earth - it carried out God's purposes and ideas in the physical realm. You could call the Logos, the Jehovah of the OT if you wanted.

Out from this, like the telescope, comes the Holy Spirit that witnesses and testifies to us, those things.

So, now, back to John 1. No problem, we read, in the beginning was God and the Logos was with him... blah, blah, blah - everyone knows that John. We continue: blah, blah... AND THE LOGOS BECAME FLESH - WHOA! Stop! Hold it!!!! Does.Not.Compute!!!! I need to think!!!...

Now you are telling me that the Logos, the manifestation of the mind of the universe (God), the ultimate, underlying Form (essence) of the Cosmos has now been revealed!!! To us!!! A special revelation of God appearing as: the divine, promised savior clothed in human form. Whoa!!! Much to think about here - let's read on and see what this John guy has to say... "You shall call his name 'Emanuel' - God with us"...

Think, "a body thou hast prepared me" Psalms - prophecy of the coming Savior.

What a mindblower - or today, we'd say: WTF??????

So, sorry for the length, I hope this answered your question and made a little bit of sense.

I think God is so much bigger than we think. :)

[teachmevp]

Hi Sunesis, I thought it strange that Emanuel, their is something different about

that in the Tanakh? Logos is a cool word too look at, in the light your looking at

logos; but growing in that new nature, that new nature that was planted into your

old nature in which you were born with. That second Adam endured those temptations,

the second Adam had pure blood, just like the first Adam, that blood of the second Adam

did walk into that tent heaven itself, into a tent, not pitch by man? But it is wrong for us to

tell another story, that has nothing to do with what John is saying, a lot can be reasoned out

of the first five verses of John-wisdom-, but verse 6-14 of the storyline, that was added? The

Israelites had a specific worldview, and they imposed that worldview; that radical new worldview

was monotheism? Trippe stuff, hope you are doing well?

[teachmevp]

It seems like Mississippi, I get a understanding of Mississippi, maybe I don't know everything

about Mississippi, but I see the heart of it; but then someone comes along, and starts talking

about Mrissippi? The Noahide covenant, did the greeks teach that covenant? Yahweh wrote that

story in the stars their in Genisus, during the fourth a day, about this second Adam, Genisus

3:15; but the story of the stars are not telling their story, once the gathering together happens,

the stars will start to tell their story? Just throwing it out, GreaseSpot learning?

[teachmevp]

I think I understand that the Romans would let conquered nations worship whatever, as

long as the Romans got their money, I thought I heard that the Romans would even

sacrifice to other conquered nations, just in case sacrifices so to speak? The Hellenistic

thing was already in place, the Romans left it alone? Alexander the great put it in place, I

posted a long time ago that it was Peter the great, sorry about that. The greeks have a cool

history, the story of the 300, just the training one of them 300 went through to be a 300; that

is mind-binding? Back in them days, to do anything, or be anything, one had to speak greek,

even the Israelites were faced with how much of that Hellenistic to get caught up in; like us with

the world, just how much world does one allow, kinda crazy? I think I understand what these men

were talking about, seems the Way is the same way, one has to speak what is approved, in order to

get anywhere, brown nosers? Could you imagine what Paul went through, but they reason the word

in two years and three months, over the known world, I think? What was being taught in this Hellenistic

circles became ingrained because of Alexander the great, I think he was the first one with a one world

view, logos was a ingrained thing at that time of Alexander? I wonder if the greek thinkers, they knew

the essence of a rock, but did they think about that tree of life, the life that tree produces, could make

that rock come alive? That noun of that life we are going to get, cool stuff.