Many other faiths are authentic ways to approach, enjoy, and serve God.
Its refreshing to hear that from a christian.
I respect all faith traditions, to me they all have important things to offer. Trouble is but a few steps away when anyone adopts their own as the exclusive and only one.....been there/done that---no thanks
The last thing I would ever want is a "Click here!" religion
What annoys me about these sort of things on FB is that it puts pressure on people to make a display of their "faith" to others. I hate that sort of thing. My spiritual beliefs are my own, and I don't have to explain them to anyone since I am an citizen of the USA. Some of my beliefs would offend others, some would lead others to condemn me as a non-believer or devilish. I am Christian, but I believe as Christ said that I don't need to make a show of my beliefs - I can let the fruit of my life show instead.
Jesus said that others would know us by the love we have one toward another. Not by a "like" button someone presses without thinking... not by labels...
(And if you had to put a label on me, I would be a Buddho-Christian-Catholic-Charismatic with some Pagan tendencies. )
The thing is - - clicking on a FB page is not going to produce a revival of any kind. Perhaps so many thousands would click there desiring such a revival.....but clicking don't make it so...yano?! [ thanks Gen2]
The thing is - - clicking on a FB page is not going to produce a revival of any kind. Perhaps so many thousands would click there desiring such a revival.....but clicking don't make it so...yano?! [ thanks Gen2]
What annoys me about these sort of things on FB is that it puts pressure on people to make a display of their "faith" to others. I hate that sort of thing. My spiritual beliefs are my own, and I don't have to explain them to anyone since I am an citizen of the USA. Some of my beliefs would offend others, some would lead others to condemn me as a non-believer or devilish. I am Christian, but I believe as Christ said that I don't need to make a show of my beliefs - I can let the fruit of my life show instead.
Jesus said that others would know us by the love we have one toward another. Not by a "like" button someone presses without thinking... not by labels...
(And if you had to put a label on me, I would be a Buddho-Christian-Catholic-Charismatic with some Pagan tendencies. )
wait until you add "spiritualist" to the mix..
and add some "do gooder".. in a lot of ways..
and "won't put up with any more s*it" in a few others..
I think because we've grown up with it and it's familiar to us, we don't often really look at just what the tenets of Christianity are all about. If one takes a step back and takes a fresh look at just what the basis for Christian belief is, it's rather startling - at least it was for me. I mean, self-denial, human sacrifice, rejection of family and friends, and ritualized cannibalism?(!)
It's hardly the warm-and-fuzzy, "Kum-by-ya", "let's all just love everybody" sorta philosophy that it's pitched as. Rather, it seems a lot more primitive, judgemental, and guilt-based than the common sales-pitch. Almost like it was cobbled together by a primitive, ignorant, anal-retentive group of Iron-age control-freaks. Ya think?
I'm not so sure I would be quite as tough on the whole system overall. There are some behavioral tenets that parallel common sense, such as "Treat others with respect", "A soft answer turns away wrath." and so forth. On the other hand, there are the doctrinal tenets that deal with such things as people being raised from the dead, limitless supplies of food staples, miraculous healings and that sort of thing. Maybe it would be helpful to make a distinction between the doctrinal tenets and the behavioral tenets.
it seems a lot more primitive, judgmental, and guilt-based than the common sales-pitch. Almost like it was cobbled together by a primitive, ignorant, anal-retentive group of Iron-age control-freaks. Ya think?
George, sorry friend, were you talking about Christianity or Glenn Beck's followers?
self-denial, human sacrifice, rejection of family and friends, and ritualized cannibalism
George,
I opened a new thread re: "ritualized cannibalism" (just because I enjoy it so much)
"self-denial" well, the lack of a moderate self-denial has brought our home, this Earth, to the brink of destruction. Maybe a bit of fossil fuel self-denial is in order. I hope that Christianity sees stewardship of creation as paramount in importance.
"human sacrifice" You mean, because we refuse to end wars for profit? Guilty. All Christians should protest vehemently against wars of convenience for fat white guys. I'm really tired of seeing bodies of wonderful young boys and girls come home from abroad. Ya wanna wish "Happy Holidays" to THEIR families? -- 4,400 something from Iraq. Yes, that's Christian-sanctioned human sacrifice. Is that what you meant?
"rejection of family and friends" Well, that's kinda deep spiritual merde. One can't follow Jesus down life's dusty roads with one's hands holding on to momma's apron strings. One has to be ready to let go of one's worldly ties sometimes. "Forsaking" mother and father, sister and brother, in Jesus' admonition, might not have to mean, despising them. Love the crazy world of your family, but don't let them hold you back from your pilgrimage of self-denial, human sacrifice(?) and ritualistic cannibalism. huh?
I know you know these things, but the chance to discuss them is welcome. How do YOU see them as parts of Christianity?
No earthshattering epiphanies here I'm afraid. Just the normal agnostic sorta stance.
I see The Bible as simply a collection of a lot of mythology and superstitions that have been around since religions began, which I'm sure goes back to well before we even figured out how to live in caves.
Imagine how a primitive, ignorant, possibly even non-verbal people would react and try to survive in a very inhospitable environment. Wouldn't they naturally gravitate towards appeasing the elements around them so they would be shown favor by the forces that be? So soon they're doing whatever they can to make the gods that they imagine are controlling their fate, happy with them. But how could they do that? Well, by buying them off of course.
So they start making sacrifices of precious things to the gods, so that in return the gods will look kindly on them and allow them to live and eat, find food and shelter and clothing, and have abundant children, crops, and livestock. Eventually the crops, livestock, and even the children are sacrificed so the angry gods won't be so angry with them. And eventually a codified system of sacrifices and behaviors are drawn up, so that the people can be sure they're doing everything they can to keep on the right side of the gods.
And so we get - eventually - a Bible. Lots of myths, folklore, superstitions by the boatload, and even a little hardearned wisdom interspersed with all the blather. And the basic mindset is still that humanity is all f-ed up and needs a saviour. We start out from a guilty position and our only hope is that the gods will look kindly on us if we give up something in exchange for good things in this life AND especially in the one to come. So we give up our time, things we enjoy, our assets, and try to make all of what we experience on earth to be evil or at least inferior to what the gods have in store for us in the great beyond.
And we adopt really primitive, likely even prehistoric, rituals. So cannibalism and offerings and chanting are our gifts to those unseen forces to make sure life comes out right. And if the rituals were finally proven to be just a tad TOO primitive and uncivilized, well we compromise. We no longer feel comfortable offering up our own bodies - or our children's - for sacrifice to the gods. So we figure out a way that God Himself does it for us. HE offers up the PERFECT sacrifice. Isn't that just special?
But you've got to ask yourself (don't you?). What the hell kinda god would want to set things up in such a way that actual human sacrifice would be what is needed to make sure that mankind can survive? Just a tad bloodthirsty, no? (I know, God had no choice in the matter, He HAD to do it that way if He was a just God, right? [long sigh])
So yeah, I've got serious issues with the very basis of Christianity. I think it's ultimately a really violent, bloodthirsty, guilt-obsessed philosophy. It plays on one's sense of guilt and fear to make people act in the holy, prescribed manner. Denial of self, trivializing of familial and fraternal relationships, obeisance to a nebulous, vague, ill-defined power that's impossible to ever comprehend, and acceptance of barbaric, primitive rituals as some sort of holy rite. Yeah, I'm not much impressed with any of it anymore.
And the topper is the trumping of knowledge and the scientific method with vague scriptural admonitions and "revelations" of "holymen".
The results of such religious adherence is evident in the headlines most any morning...
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waysider
Reminds me of the plot to one of those old Mickey Rooney/Judy Garland movies.
"Hey, kids! Let's put on a stage show in the barn and win the war!"
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Pax
I mean if the Interpretation of "Jesus is Lord"
is that all people should be Christian...
I don't think so.
Those who want all people to be 'born again,'
ought to stick to just the one birth,
and try to grow up.
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mstar1
Its refreshing to hear that from a christian.
I respect all faith traditions, to me they all have important things to offer. Trouble is but a few steps away when anyone adopts their own as the exclusive and only one.....been there/done that---no thanks
The last thing I would ever want is a "Click here!" religion
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JavaJane
What annoys me about these sort of things on FB is that it puts pressure on people to make a display of their "faith" to others. I hate that sort of thing. My spiritual beliefs are my own, and I don't have to explain them to anyone since I am an citizen of the USA. Some of my beliefs would offend others, some would lead others to condemn me as a non-believer or devilish. I am Christian, but I believe as Christ said that I don't need to make a show of my beliefs - I can let the fruit of my life show instead.
Jesus said that others would know us by the love we have one toward another. Not by a "like" button someone presses without thinking... not by labels...
(And if you had to put a label on me, I would be a Buddho-Christian-Catholic-Charismatic with some Pagan tendencies.
)
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Pax
There are 25+ ordained ministers
who are friends on my FB page
(explains SO MUCH about my life).
What do they respond to my post that resembles the start of this thread above?
Nothing.
They are ALL working on their sermons! :)
Or, they are Shocked
that I don't believe it's God's will
for every human
to become self-identified as Christian.
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Pax
JavaJane,
"Pagan tendencies" YES!
I wonder if anyone who is unaware of some pagan tendencies in themselves
isn't really all that self-aware.
Or... just WAY too religious.
hmmm?
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krys
The thing is - - clicking on a FB page is not going to produce a revival of any kind. Perhaps so many thousands would click there desiring such a revival.....but clicking don't make it so...yano?! [ thanks Gen2]
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Jbarrax
...what she said. :-)
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Ham
Just a small thought. I'll admit it's small..
If he is lord.. why does he need the assistance of ten kazillion youthful followers?
as if.. if he is what he claims to be.. and I have no empirical knowledge to deny it..
send some rain this way..
that's the big claim of the on campus zealots now. Something about Hosea.. I didn't look it up.
but by all means.. I could use some *rain* as well as anyone else..
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waysider
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GarthP2000
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Ham
wait until you add "spiritualist" to the mix..
and add some "do gooder".. in a lot of ways..
and "won't put up with any more s*it" in a few others..
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Ham
yeah.. its the "one birth" concept I think..
if the second is valid and all.. just come and get me..
or is it the nth birth concept..
I hope (hope not!) it is the last..
heh
the last one, leads to where I was before..
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Ham
Scary thought, isn't it..
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Ham
why would one want to run from oneself.. even if one happened to be a "nice guy".. I could understand, if one were totally obnoxious or something..
maybe that's the question..
well.. it's not *my* fault, or is it..
I'm just a bozo on the bus..
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George Aar
I think because we've grown up with it and it's familiar to us, we don't often really look at just what the tenets of Christianity are all about. If one takes a step back and takes a fresh look at just what the basis for Christian belief is, it's rather startling - at least it was for me. I mean, self-denial, human sacrifice, rejection of family and friends, and ritualized cannibalism?(!)
It's hardly the warm-and-fuzzy, "Kum-by-ya", "let's all just love everybody" sorta philosophy that it's pitched as. Rather, it seems a lot more primitive, judgemental, and guilt-based than the common sales-pitch. Almost like it was cobbled together by a primitive, ignorant, anal-retentive group of Iron-age control-freaks. Ya think?
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waysider
I'm not so sure I would be quite as tough on the whole system overall. There are some behavioral tenets that parallel common sense, such as "Treat others with respect", "A soft answer turns away wrath." and so forth. On the other hand, there are the doctrinal tenets that deal with such things as people being raised from the dead, limitless supplies of food staples, miraculous healings and that sort of thing. Maybe it would be helpful to make a distinction between the doctrinal tenets and the behavioral tenets.
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Pax
George, sorry friend, were you talking about Christianity or Glenn Beck's followers?
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George Aar
Ha! Well, there IS a bit of an overlap there, I'm afraid...
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Pax
George,
I opened a new thread re: "ritualized cannibalism" (just because I enjoy it so much)
"self-denial" well, the lack of a moderate self-denial has brought our home, this Earth, to the brink of destruction. Maybe a bit of fossil fuel self-denial is in order. I hope that Christianity sees stewardship of creation as paramount in importance.
"human sacrifice" You mean, because we refuse to end wars for profit? Guilty. All Christians should protest vehemently against wars of convenience for fat white guys. I'm really tired of seeing bodies of wonderful young boys and girls come home from abroad. Ya wanna wish "Happy Holidays" to THEIR families? -- 4,400 something from Iraq. Yes, that's Christian-sanctioned human sacrifice. Is that what you meant?
"rejection of family and friends" Well, that's kinda deep spiritual merde. One can't follow Jesus down life's dusty roads with one's hands holding on to momma's apron strings. One has to be ready to let go of one's worldly ties sometimes. "Forsaking" mother and father, sister and brother, in Jesus' admonition, might not have to mean, despising them. Love the crazy world of your family, but don't let them hold you back from your pilgrimage of self-denial, human sacrifice(?) and ritualistic cannibalism. huh?
I know you know these things, but the chance to discuss them is welcome. How do YOU see them as parts of Christianity?
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George Aar
How do I see them?
No earthshattering epiphanies here I'm afraid. Just the normal agnostic sorta stance.
I see The Bible as simply a collection of a lot of mythology and superstitions that have been around since religions began, which I'm sure goes back to well before we even figured out how to live in caves.
Imagine how a primitive, ignorant, possibly even non-verbal people would react and try to survive in a very inhospitable environment. Wouldn't they naturally gravitate towards appeasing the elements around them so they would be shown favor by the forces that be? So soon they're doing whatever they can to make the gods that they imagine are controlling their fate, happy with them. But how could they do that? Well, by buying them off of course.
So they start making sacrifices of precious things to the gods, so that in return the gods will look kindly on them and allow them to live and eat, find food and shelter and clothing, and have abundant children, crops, and livestock. Eventually the crops, livestock, and even the children are sacrificed so the angry gods won't be so angry with them. And eventually a codified system of sacrifices and behaviors are drawn up, so that the people can be sure they're doing everything they can to keep on the right side of the gods.
And so we get - eventually - a Bible. Lots of myths, folklore, superstitions by the boatload, and even a little hardearned wisdom interspersed with all the blather. And the basic mindset is still that humanity is all f-ed up and needs a saviour. We start out from a guilty position and our only hope is that the gods will look kindly on us if we give up something in exchange for good things in this life AND especially in the one to come. So we give up our time, things we enjoy, our assets, and try to make all of what we experience on earth to be evil or at least inferior to what the gods have in store for us in the great beyond.
And we adopt really primitive, likely even prehistoric, rituals. So cannibalism and offerings and chanting are our gifts to those unseen forces to make sure life comes out right. And if the rituals were finally proven to be just a tad TOO primitive and uncivilized, well we compromise. We no longer feel comfortable offering up our own bodies - or our children's - for sacrifice to the gods. So we figure out a way that God Himself does it for us. HE offers up the PERFECT sacrifice. Isn't that just special?
But you've got to ask yourself (don't you?). What the hell kinda god would want to set things up in such a way that actual human sacrifice would be what is needed to make sure that mankind can survive? Just a tad bloodthirsty, no? (I know, God had no choice in the matter, He HAD to do it that way if He was a just God, right? [long sigh])
So yeah, I've got serious issues with the very basis of Christianity. I think it's ultimately a really violent, bloodthirsty, guilt-obsessed philosophy. It plays on one's sense of guilt and fear to make people act in the holy, prescribed manner. Denial of self, trivializing of familial and fraternal relationships, obeisance to a nebulous, vague, ill-defined power that's impossible to ever comprehend, and acceptance of barbaric, primitive rituals as some sort of holy rite. Yeah, I'm not much impressed with any of it anymore.
And the topper is the trumping of knowledge and the scientific method with vague scriptural admonitions and "revelations" of "holymen".
The results of such religious adherence is evident in the headlines most any morning...
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Ham
I don't know if I'd include chanting here. That's just the way some of us try to deal with life's s*it sometimes..
"are you mumbling?"..
"no.. I'm chanting.."
I try to be as inconspicuous as possible..
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Ham
This is really "cool".. depending on your point of view I guess..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znLItt_WzwE&NR=1&feature=fvwp
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Ham
This is even "more cool"..
they did their chanting in a pro-active sense, before dealing with the good mayor daley's s*it..
is there something to this? I dunno..
looking over forty years back.. what good did it do..
some I hope..
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