I don't subscribe to all the spirit mumbo-jumbo anymore. As I recall, though, a familiar spirit is supposed to be a sort of surveillance spirit. In other words, they sneak around and secretly gather information that they expose at opportunistic moments..... like a spiritual phone tap
The way they explained it to me was that it was a spirit that was "famiiar" with someone, so they could imitate them after they were dead...
And, yeah... I don't believe most of what they taught about the spirit world anymore. In fact, I can't say I believe any of it... although I do have my own beliefs on the subject now. Now, however, I don't believe everyone who doesn't think like me is possessed.
The way they explained it to me was that it was a spirit that was "famiiar" with someone, so they could imitate them after they were dead...
And, yeah... I don't believe most of what they taught about the spirit world anymore. In fact, I can't say I believe any of it... although I do have my own beliefs on the subject now. Now, however, I don't believe everyone who doesn't think like me is possessed.
I don't recall ever hearing about a spirit that imitated. Familiar spirits were supposedly the ones that divulged information at seances, psychic readings and so forth.
I don't recall ever hearing about a spirit that imitated. Familiar spirits were supposedly the ones that divulged information at seances, psychic readings and so forth.
The way I was taught it (I only had LCM's Advanced Class) was that the familiar spirits operated at seances by imitating the dead because they were familiar with the dead person they were imitating. Does that make sense? (I mean from a twi standpoint, not for normal people - it makes no sense at all if you think about it without the KoolAid chaser!)
The way I was taught it (I only had LCM's Advanced Class) was that the familiar spirits operated at seances by imitating the dead because they were familiar with the dead person they were imitating. Does that make sense? (I mean from a twi standpoint, not for normal people - it makes no sense at all if you think about it without the KoolAid chaser!)
OK---I see what you're getting at.
edit:
That's still a long way from people morphing their physical appearance to resemble VPW.
I have heard the same tales over the years. In fact word for word of what you said. People who told these stories stayed after the fog years and supported L.C.M. and the people who changed in to V.P. were the cop outs. Thus further proof if you leave the way the boogie man gets you. I do not put much stock in wayfer stories. That being said your not alone I heard the tall ones to....
Been out for 23 years and so my mind has straightened out considerably. So hearing this, my first thought was, That is just crazy.....that people would believe something like people looking like VP because of a familiar spirit.
So, it just is so "far out there", my mind can't wrap itself around the idea....which tells me, my mind must be in pretty good shape!
I heard about it on the leadership tapes (when LCM said he saw VPW in CG's face), and I was also told in a phone call with MDF*rt that he saw VPW's face in T#m J's face at Emporia in 1986. I was still in TWI at the time and so were MDF (he still is) and TJ ... TJ was on staff there at the time and MDF was the Corps Coordinator there. I have never seen it myself, but those are the two folks I have heard about it from ...
Been out for 23 years and so my mind has straightened out considerably. So hearing this, my first thought was, That is just crazy.....that people would believe something like people looking like VP because of a familiar spirit.
So, it just is so "far out there", my mind can't wrap itself around the idea....which tells me, my mind must be in pretty good shape!
Yeah, I know... I was listening to some of the old GSC podcasts and it just popped into my head when I heard someone talk about how people would imitate VP's mannerisms (like yelling at people, etc...) and my brain went, "WTF?? Did someone ACTUALLY say that? And I actually believed it???"
I don't recall ever hearing about a spirit that imitated. Familiar spirits were supposedly the ones that divulged information at seances, psychic readings and so forth.
Yep. The Forehead's "Special Leadership Tapes". He talks about experiencing Chris Geer's head morphing into VPW while he was talking.
Which kind of reminds me of the "Haunted Mansion" ride at Disney World.
Although it just doesn't quite have the same entertainment value as the "dueling cat-fight visions" of CES.
Hmmm....kind of like when CES promotes their personal prophetic revelatons with "spiders coming out of" people's noses.
The reaction shouldn't be ... "Wow is that really prophecy?"
The reaction should be .... "Wait.....did you say you see spiders coming out of someone's nose....????"
I too have read here, but never heard from a live warm human being, that Craig and others said they saw Geer's facial features change into VPW's. Never heard it from their mouths mind you, just second hand, and here.
Years ago VPW had a thing about cutting back on his sleep. In fact, late in life he was going over a list he'd made at one time, of things he'd do differently over his lifetime. And one of those things was, get up an hour earlier everyday. He'd added up the number of "days" that would have added to his actual lifetime and it was significant.
Quality of life comes to mind n that regard, though - and health. If you only average 4 hours of sleep a night, which was what he proposed, you'll likely experience ill health as a result. It was and still is popular in a lot of circles to sleep less and get more up time. But you will go through some very strange mental, physical and emotional challenges if you do that over a long period. And 5 hours a night isn't healthy either. Some people or for awhile, perhaps - on average, no.
Which may account for people their seeing changes like this - seriously now, I'm only half-kidding. Sleep deprived and under extreme pressure Craig sees someone's facial features change.
No one should have wondered .... wowzzaa! something spiritual is going on.....they should have backed up slowly towards the door....
"Duh!!!"
Maybe him taking some time off, geting some rest and doing a personal - what were those? - "Check up from the neck up"...might have helped a little too.
But in general - "shape shifiting" as it's called in other circles is absolute b.s. Not to be confused with the lesser strength but completley effective normal B.S., the absolute stuff is pret-ty pungent.
But in general - "shape shifiting" as it's called in other circles is absolute b.s. Not to be confused with the lesser strength but completley effective normal B.S., the absolute stuff is pret-ty pungent.
Wait a minute...I thought I saw Wierwille turn into a whore house one night...
Regular sleep is probably one of the most basic elements of health, like being hydrated and breathing. When we're young, in our 20's, we're bullet proof (or think we are). We can stretch the limits and bounce back fully loaded and ready to go. That recovery time changes over our lifespans as we age. Still our bodies work with what they get and given all the hereditary factors that load into making us who we are we're able to manage a lot of variances in our environment.
I went through a period of a few years where I loved to jog and "run". I ran quite a bit in the 70's and reached a point where I could go out on a Saturday afternoon and run from The Way Nash driveway for 5-6 miles, as a "fun run", keeping a slow easy pace of 7 minutes a mile or so. I felt like I could keep going for another 5 easily and often just ran for time - an hour or so and then stop. I ate "healthy"and if I binged on a burger or a pizza here and there, it never mattered, it burned up and off.
That changed. My shins gave out, "shin splints" set in because I didn't manage the running and adjust as I aged.
Speaking in tongues changed too - in fact, I found it more of an effective means for private prayer and "meditation" for want of a better word, as the years went on. It's contributed to what I would call my own personal "insight" and awareness hugely. In my youth I tended to (thinking back now) to have a lot of other things going on when I would speak in tongues, not giving that practice the room emotionally that it needed to fully expand into my whole "soul life" and authenticate itself from other activities. I know many of you don't see any benefit to it and relegate it to wasted activity but I don't. Still, I can't fully transfer my own experience to anyone else so I accept it for what it is, for me, and leave it at that in relation to this board.
I can see now though that managing our own basic health routines factors greatly into how we think and our own perceptions. When we're tired and grouchy, piqued by this or that, we react one way. Rested and ready, another. Somewhere inbetween, a balance is achieved as we juggle the realities of day to day life.
My first advice to anyone seeing the visage of one change into another would be - get some rest. Particularly to those tired souls so whipped and battered by the Geer/Martindale parade. Look at how it affected Craig. He characterized a person on one long emotional merry go round, making one bad decision after another, unable or unwilling to disconnect, breathe deep and give it a rest, literally, for a time to evaluate and just live.
Hindsight = 20/20. Applied in real time today - "gold".
The reaction shouldn't be ... "Wow is that really prophecy?"
The reaction should be .... "Wait.....did you say you see spiders coming out of someone's nose....????"
No one should have wondered .... wowzzaa! something spiritual is going on.....they should have backed up slowly towards the door....
"Duh!!!"
Socks, this is funny It's funny because it's so true! There was a lot of stuff that was said where a normal person, or I should say a person thinking normally would go, "Ummm...sure! I'm going to put this WOW burger down and get out of here!" But so many of us went "wooo, something spiritual!" Funny!
Speaking of "morphing" into Dr. Wierwille, I wasn't around after the Great Purge of 1989, but I saw plenty of people who were very insecure in their own person pick up VP's personal traits. It was very sad in retrospect. Talking to them was like talking to VP, and that's when Wierwille was alive. I don't think there were any familiar spirits involved, just a person who falsely thought that's the way they had to act to be spiritual. One of these people is now running an offshoot.
Others in the Corps did the same thing with LCM. I chalk it up to personal insecurity.
Speaking in tongues changed too - in fact, I found it more of an effective means for private prayer and "meditation" for want of a better word, as the years went on. It's contributed to what I would call my own personal "insight" and awareness hugely. In my youth I tended to (thinking back now) to have a lot of other things going on when I would speak in tongues, not giving that practice the room emotionally that it needed to fully expand into my whole "soul life" and authenticate itself from other activities.
Agreed. I have an affinity for SIT (these days), that I didn't have back in "the day".
The above post was a "tongue in cheek" joke. A bad one perhaps/ but tongue in cheek "joke" none-the-less.
SIT means more to me (also) now than it did back during twi daze. It's more of a reality than twi ever taught it to be.
I know there's several (maybe many) here that feel it to be false/ old wine/ coerced indoctrination/ etc.
Cool. Fine. Whatever floats your boat. Some folks think that man never went to, or stood on the moon.
I don't argue with them either. "Someone convinced against their will - - - - - -" (fill in the blank).
Adding to the actual topic at hand here (familiar spirits) - - - Yes.
I remember docvic teaching that they (familiar spirits) were those that were "familiar with the person".
If i recollect correct, the verse he used was I Samuel 28: 7 ff. I could be wrong about that though.
No - - now that I think about it, I'm not. He taught that in one-of-his-many-classes-but-don't-ask-me-which-one.
It was most likely PFAL 77/ or AC 1979. Shucks - - - It might have been in the original pfal, for all I know.
Anyone got a copy of the class, or the books? I don't.
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waysider
I don't subscribe to all the spirit mumbo-jumbo anymore. As I recall, though, a familiar spirit is supposed to be a sort of surveillance spirit. In other words, they sneak around and secretly gather information that they expose at opportunistic moments..... like a spiritual phone tap
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JavaJane
The way they explained it to me was that it was a spirit that was "famiiar" with someone, so they could imitate them after they were dead...
And, yeah... I don't believe most of what they taught about the spirit world anymore. In fact, I can't say I believe any of it... although I do have my own beliefs on the subject now. Now, however, I don't believe everyone who doesn't think like me is possessed.
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waysider
I don't recall ever hearing about a spirit that imitated. Familiar spirits were supposedly the ones that divulged information at seances, psychic readings and so forth.
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JavaJane
The way I was taught it (I only had LCM's Advanced Class) was that the familiar spirits operated at seances by imitating the dead because they were familiar with the dead person they were imitating. Does that make sense? (I mean from a twi standpoint, not for normal people - it makes no sense at all if you think about it without the KoolAid chaser!)
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waysider
OK---I see what you're getting at.
edit:
That's still a long way from people morphing their physical appearance to resemble VPW.
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JavaJane
Yup... I'm thinking it was LCM paranoia...
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copenhagen
JJ
I have heard the same tales over the years. In fact word for word of what you said. People who told these stories stayed after the fog years and supported L.C.M. and the people who changed in to V.P. were the cop outs. Thus further proof if you leave the way the boogie man gets you. I do not put much stock in wayfer stories. That being said your not alone I heard the tall ones to....
copenhagen
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newlife
Been out for 23 years and so my mind has straightened out considerably. So hearing this, my first thought was, That is just crazy.....that people would believe something like people looking like VP because of a familiar spirit.
So, it just is so "far out there", my mind can't wrap itself around the idea....which tells me, my mind must be in pretty good shape!
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DogLover
Java Jane,
I heard about it on the leadership tapes (when LCM said he saw VPW in CG's face), and I was also told in a phone call with MDF*rt that he saw VPW's face in T#m J's face at Emporia in 1986. I was still in TWI at the time and so were MDF (he still is) and TJ ... TJ was on staff there at the time and MDF was the Corps Coordinator there. I have never seen it myself, but those are the two folks I have heard about it from ...
DogLover
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JavaJane
Yeah, I know... I was listening to some of the old GSC podcasts and it just popped into my head when I heard someone talk about how people would imitate VP's mannerisms (like yelling at people, etc...) and my brain went, "WTF?? Did someone ACTUALLY say that? And I actually believed it???"
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chockfull
Yep. The Forehead's "Special Leadership Tapes". He talks about experiencing Chris Geer's head morphing into VPW while he was talking.
Which kind of reminds me of the "Haunted Mansion" ride at Disney World.
Although it just doesn't quite have the same entertainment value as the "dueling cat-fight visions" of CES.
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waysider
Good Gravy!
What's next?
Maybe they could stand in front of a mirror, in a dark room, with a lit candle, spin around three times and chant.....
I believe in Mary Worth VP Wierwille.
I believe in Mary Worth VP Wierwille.
I believe in Mary Worth VP Wierwille.
HERE
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socks
Hmmm....kind of like when CES promotes their personal prophetic revelatons with "spiders coming out of" people's noses.
The reaction shouldn't be ... "Wow is that really prophecy?"
The reaction should be .... "Wait.....did you say you see spiders coming out of someone's nose....????"
I too have read here, but never heard from a live warm human being, that Craig and others said they saw Geer's facial features change into VPW's. Never heard it from their mouths mind you, just second hand, and here.
Years ago VPW had a thing about cutting back on his sleep. In fact, late in life he was going over a list he'd made at one time, of things he'd do differently over his lifetime. And one of those things was, get up an hour earlier everyday. He'd added up the number of "days" that would have added to his actual lifetime and it was significant.
Quality of life comes to mind n that regard, though - and health. If you only average 4 hours of sleep a night, which was what he proposed, you'll likely experience ill health as a result. It was and still is popular in a lot of circles to sleep less and get more up time. But you will go through some very strange mental, physical and emotional challenges if you do that over a long period. And 5 hours a night isn't healthy either. Some people or for awhile, perhaps - on average, no.
Which may account for people their seeing changes like this - seriously now, I'm only half-kidding. Sleep deprived and under extreme pressure Craig sees someone's facial features change.
No one should have wondered .... wowzzaa! something spiritual is going on.....they should have backed up slowly towards the door....
"Duh!!!"
Maybe him taking some time off, geting some rest and doing a personal - what were those? - "Check up from the neck up"...might have helped a little too.
But in general - "shape shifiting" as it's called in other circles is absolute b.s. Not to be confused with the lesser strength but completley effective normal B.S., the absolute stuff is pret-ty pungent.
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waysider
Dat's Riiigghht!
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GrouchoMarxJr
Wait a minute...I thought I saw Wierwille turn into a whore house one night...
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excathedra
if vp was going to get up earlier he would have to change what he did at night
pppffffttttt
what a jerk
ps. geer is scary enough without a new face
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waysider
You guys better be nice. You know darn well he spoke in tongues more than us all.
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excathedra
so why the f did he need any sleep at all
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waysider
So that he could prove he never dreamed.
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dmiller
Was that him, or the drambuie talking.
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socks
Regular sleep is probably one of the most basic elements of health, like being hydrated and breathing. When we're young, in our 20's, we're bullet proof (or think we are). We can stretch the limits and bounce back fully loaded and ready to go. That recovery time changes over our lifespans as we age. Still our bodies work with what they get and given all the hereditary factors that load into making us who we are we're able to manage a lot of variances in our environment.
I went through a period of a few years where I loved to jog and "run". I ran quite a bit in the 70's and reached a point where I could go out on a Saturday afternoon and run from The Way Nash driveway for 5-6 miles, as a "fun run", keeping a slow easy pace of 7 minutes a mile or so. I felt like I could keep going for another 5 easily and often just ran for time - an hour or so and then stop. I ate "healthy"and if I binged on a burger or a pizza here and there, it never mattered, it burned up and off.
That changed. My shins gave out, "shin splints" set in because I didn't manage the running and adjust as I aged.
Speaking in tongues changed too - in fact, I found it more of an effective means for private prayer and "meditation" for want of a better word, as the years went on. It's contributed to what I would call my own personal "insight" and awareness hugely. In my youth I tended to (thinking back now) to have a lot of other things going on when I would speak in tongues, not giving that practice the room emotionally that it needed to fully expand into my whole "soul life" and authenticate itself from other activities. I know many of you don't see any benefit to it and relegate it to wasted activity but I don't. Still, I can't fully transfer my own experience to anyone else so I accept it for what it is, for me, and leave it at that in relation to this board.
I can see now though that managing our own basic health routines factors greatly into how we think and our own perceptions. When we're tired and grouchy, piqued by this or that, we react one way. Rested and ready, another. Somewhere inbetween, a balance is achieved as we juggle the realities of day to day life.
My first advice to anyone seeing the visage of one change into another would be - get some rest. Particularly to those tired souls so whipped and battered by the Geer/Martindale parade. Look at how it affected Craig. He characterized a person on one long emotional merry go round, making one bad decision after another, unable or unwilling to disconnect, breathe deep and give it a rest, literally, for a time to evaluate and just live.
Hindsight = 20/20. Applied in real time today - "gold".
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Broken Arrow
Socks, this is funny
It's funny because it's so true! There was a lot of stuff that was said where a normal person, or I should say a person thinking normally would go, "Ummm...sure! I'm going to put this WOW burger down and get out of here!" But so many of us went "wooo, something spiritual!" Funny!
Speaking of "morphing" into Dr. Wierwille, I wasn't around after the Great Purge of 1989, but I saw plenty of people who were very insecure in their own person pick up VP's personal traits. It was very sad in retrospect. Talking to them was like talking to VP, and that's when Wierwille was alive. I don't think there were any familiar spirits involved, just a person who falsely thought that's the way they had to act to be spiritual. One of these people is now running an offshoot.
Others in the Corps did the same thing with LCM. I chalk it up to personal insecurity.
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dmiller
Agreed.
I have an affinity for SIT (these days), that I didn't have back in "the day".
The above post was a "tongue in cheek" joke. A bad one perhaps/ but tongue in cheek "joke" none-the-less.
SIT means more to me (also) now than it did back during twi daze. It's more of a reality than twi ever taught it to be.
I know there's several (maybe many) here that feel it to be false/ old wine/ coerced indoctrination/ etc.
Cool. Fine. Whatever floats your boat.
Some folks think that man never went to, or stood on the moon.
I don't argue with them either. "Someone convinced against their will - - - - - -" (fill in the blank).
Adding to the actual topic at hand here (familiar spirits) - - - Yes.
I remember docvic teaching that they (familiar spirits) were those that were "familiar with the person".
If i recollect correct, the verse he used was I Samuel 28: 7 ff. I could be wrong about that though.
No - - now that I think about it, I'm not. He taught that in one-of-his-many-classes-but-don't-ask-me-which-one.
It was most likely PFAL 77/ or AC 1979. Shucks - - - It might have been in the original pfal, for all I know.
Anyone got a copy of the class, or the books? I don't.
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Ham
ah yes.. seeing da clone's face morph into herr victer's..
I've had a few experiences that might be described as a waking or wide awake dream..
it's even worked with a couple of rather hard math problems I've been working on..
so the brain goes into some kind of *sober* dream state.. tries to interpret the information in some kind of semi-logical way..
It's really a gift, when it happens.
So what was the lady really seeing when she saw chrissy poos face morph to herr doc..?
I think the interpretation was.. "he is (was) (going to be) the same set of nonsense.."
and it may have been just that simple of an explanation. No familiar spirits or anything else of the sort..
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