I don't recall a penny-rule in the Way but others may.
Really though - you're right. Money's money. It all spends the same.
Ministers generally prefer money that swishes though, not 'clinks'. The like the green not the brown stuff. Jefferson's - funk the coins. Tall dough, come ooooooon Big Stack !!!!!!
I don't remember a penny rule but I do remember Matth3w H@rmon, married to Lauri3 Weirwille, going into a tirade about people who give their ABS in CASH.
He complained about having to waste time going to get a money order and paying for said money order to send the ABS to HQ. He called those people selfish and inconsiderate.
He complained about having to waste time going to get a money order and paying for said money order to send the ABS to HQ.
It was a pain in the @$$. I did it for decades w/o complaining. For a while we would write a check to cover the cash to make it easier. However, TWI didn't like that at all. So we stopped. Which was complete BS too - we had to pay for the cost of the money order out of pocket. Sometimes if there was really low cash amounts we'd leave it for a week or two - usually if under $5.
None of that is the people giving's fault though. He should have directed his anger back at the genuine source of all the BS - the stupid rules surrounding this TWI had implemented. But that's classic Stepford behavior - give the offenders a pass, and come down on the little guy.
We didn't pay any rental for the charts and tapes during my time (72-86). We did have to sign them out, and had to travel sometimes to pick them up from whatever location the few sets were currently located.
There was an IRS reason for not allowing us to write a check for the cash in ABS. They were afraid someone would claim that amount as a tax deduction. Sometimes I would save the cash for several weeks rather than go get a money order each week. (Yeah, I just reported "no cash" on the blue form- bad bad twig coordinator) When that was questioned by the BC, I began to take the 50 cent Money order fee out of the cash ABS. sigh, no wonder I never had the abundant life while in TWI.
It just seemed silly for me to use my own 50 cents to get a money order for sometimes as little as a $1.50.
I remember being told at a TC meeting that we needed to get the ABS into HQ faster because Howard Allen said they were losing interest. It ....ed me off. Instead of being grateful, they were worried about interest.
There was an IRS reason for not allowing us to write a check for the cash in ABS. They were afraid someone would claim that amount as a tax deduction.
Not altogether unreasonable. For a business. And The Way straddled the fence on that issue for many years.
If it's a simple, friendly and ex officio function of the fellowship leader (as was advertised) there's no need for any of that. If however, income is being collected by formal process for a non-profit business then some form of controls are required by law, some minimal levels of record keeping and accounting for the money being collected, sent and spent.
it would have made much more sense looking back, to have local operations of the non-profit teaching and fellowship franchise to have accounts set up where deposits could be made into accounts and money rendered back into the Way Nash once a month, or at some regular interval, weekly, whatever. That way everyone knows what's going on all the time. I'm not saying it would have been the greatest idea but - hey, if you quack, walk and fly like a duck - be a duck.
It was a business. I'm not saying that's right or that's what everyone who got involved thought it was but rather, that's what was going on with this aspect of it. To treat it as otherwise doesn't make sense. But once treated as such there are issues that have to be dealt with and the "blue forms" method wasn't much of a method.
I once had a whole month or so of ABS that turned up in an envelope, in a branch I had been in, where it had never been mailed in. It created a lot of hassle getting it worked out, and at the time the Finance Dep't. at The Way Nash were extremely helpful and patient working through it. So I don't pretend to say that there's no "good way" to handle any or all of the possible variances and issues that might occur once you go down the road of embracing the business side of
this. But being in the middle and kinda sorta being a business- it doesn't work.
Not to mention that this ABS flow was, in fact,the primary income stream for the Way International for many years. I mean - come on. As an adult lo these many years now, I chuckle at the whole thingie, deal, stuff of it all. And stuff.
But for those who give and claim the IRS tax credit - fine. There's nothing wrong with that. But don't expect the "blessings" of God to roll out the window so huge you're drowned in greenbacks. Ain't gonna happen. You got your reward. Enjoy it.
That's what envelopes with people's names on them are for. All the kids at the church I grew up in got envelopes with their names on them at the beginning of the year so we could give and get it counted towards us.
I never knew how the cash was dealt with in TWI. My first time I brought a dollar in pennies for a "love offering" - it was all I had. I got a couple of strange looks. Looking back I now wonder at the audacity of it all - invite me to something and expect me to pay, but it did serve a purpose of sorts.
There was an IRS reason for not allowing us to write a check for the cash in ABS. They were afraid someone would claim that amount as a tax deduction.
Not altogether unreasonable. For a business. And The Way straddled the fence on that issue for many years.
If it's a simple, friendly and ex officio function of the fellowship leader (as was advertised) there's no need for any of that. If however, income is being collected by formal process for a non-profit business then some form of controls are required by law, some minimal levels of record keeping and accounting for the money being collected, sent and spent.
it would have made much more sense looking back, to have local operations of the non-profit teaching and fellowship franchise to have accounts set up where deposits could be made into accounts and money rendered back into the Way Nash once a month, or at some regular interval, weekly, whatever. That way everyone knows what's going on all the time. I'm not saying it would have been the greatest idea but - hey, if you quack, walk and fly like a duck - be a duck.
It was a business. I'm not saying that's right or that's what everyone who got involved thought it was but rather, that's what was going on with this aspect of it. To treat it as otherwise doesn't make sense. But once treated as such there are issues that have to be dealt with and the "blue forms" method wasn't much of a method.
I once had a whole month or so of ABS that turned up in an envelope, in a branch I had been in, where it had never been mailed in. It created a lot of hassle getting it worked out, and at the time the Finance Dep't. at The Way Nash were extremely helpful and patient working through it. So I don't pretend to say that there's no "good way" to handle any or all of the possible variances and issues that might occur once you go down the road of embracing the business side of
this. But being in the middle and kinda sorta being a business- it doesn't work.
Not to mention that this ABS flow was, in fact,the primary income stream for the Way International for many years. I mean - come on. As an adult lo these many years now, I chuckle at the whole thingie, deal, stuff of it all. And stuff.
But for those who give and claim the IRS tax credit - fine. There's nothing wrong with that. But don't expect the "blessings" of God to roll out the window so huge you're drowned in greenbacks. Ain't gonna happen. You got your reward. Enjoy it.
One thing that's interesting to me reading through this is reflecting back on how boundaries are eroded by groups like TWI. This happens over time. It is never a choice that you have to make between "reasonable" and "completely morally wacky". It's always much smaller steps than that, a little at a time. "Well, it's just a little compromise, not a big deal".
For instance on all the BS logic regarding the IRS stuff above. They were afraid someone would claim the $1.27 in cash this week as a tax deduction? Really? And as a result of that it is reasonable to mandate that all TC's need to go out to either their bank, or a store, and purchase a 50 cent money order, which there is another rule that they are not allowed to be reimbursed for that?
I mean if we are talking real and logical fears here with respect to the handling of money, here are a few:
1) Accepting cash is untraceable, it could possibly come from a criminal enterprise and represent a money laundering scheme, opening up exposure to RICO charges.
2) Cash can be stolen
3) Cash can be kept by a TC and since there is no check cashed the person giving would never question it
4) Cash can be diverted to a different cause, same concerns.
Now each of those 4 represent at least as viable a risk as someone claiming the money for a tax deduction. But they never did anything about those risks? Why? Only the possible tax deduction one?
The why is that they are Pharisees. They place burdens upon people that they will not lift a little finger to help them with.
And for years and years I accepted the BS logic, the little compromises, until finally I found myself faced with the fact that all those little compromises added up over the years, and I wondered how I had got to that place.
Recommended Posts
socks
Rule like what? No pennies? No getting mad?
I'm curious, what mission was that and where was it? Do you remember about what year it was?
How mad did your "dude" get? Really mad, yelling, waving his hands, shaking his fist, shouting - that kind of mad?
Or just irritated, like "great - gotta go to the bank now...."
What made you think he was a "nut" for not wanting pennies? Were there other things about his behavior
that were nutty? Or did it just bother you that he didn't want pennies?
I'm just interested, that's all. No biggie.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
teachmevp
That dude was mad about having to count them, bank them, his behavior became a shouting and shaking his fist on his disk, a nutty like madness.
Union Gospel Mission, they had this program I got on, I wanted to see the Trinity, and did I ever see the Trinity.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
Link to comment
Share on other sites
socks
Really though - you're right. Money's money. It all spends the same.
Ministers generally prefer money that swishes though, not 'clinks'. The like the green not the brown stuff. Jefferson's - funk the coins. Tall dough, come ooooooon Big Stack !!!!!!
Bringing pennies? -why.....that's just....
non cents.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
dmiller
Musicians too.
"Hey, hey, hey. How Y'all dooooooing tonight!!!??? If you've got any song requests,
Write em on the back of a 50 dollar bill, and send em right on up to the stage!"
Edited by dmillerLink to comment
Share on other sites
Belle
I don't remember a penny rule but I do remember Matth3w H@rmon, married to Lauri3 Weirwille, going into a tirade about people who give their ABS in CASH.
He complained about having to waste time going to get a money order and paying for said money order to send the ABS to HQ. He called those people selfish and inconsiderate.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
chockfull
It was a pain in the @$$. I did it for decades w/o complaining. For a while we would write a check to cover the cash to make it easier. However, TWI didn't like that at all. So we stopped. Which was complete BS too - we had to pay for the cost of the money order out of pocket. Sometimes if there was really low cash amounts we'd leave it for a week or two - usually if under $5.
None of that is the people giving's fault though. He should have directed his anger back at the genuine source of all the BS - the stupid rules surrounding this TWI had implemented. But that's classic Stepford behavior - give the offenders a pass, and come down on the little guy.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
GrouchoMarxJr
When twi asked me to stop giving cash...I did.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
dmiller
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Linda Z
They didn't have to ask me. I just stopped. No checks, either.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
teachmevp
I wonder if VeePee ever considered getting into the mission con?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
Yes. He called it the Word Over the World Ambassadors program.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
He made it turn a profit, too.
He charged people to enter the WOW program,
provided no transportation, provided no support,
and required them to find jobs and housing,
tithe from their income,
and spend days promoting his pfal class.
Each student's tuition was a tidy profit for vpw,
and any student who stayed meant more tithe money.
[Edit:
he provided no support to the WOWs- no housing, no job placement, etc
although local twi'ers may have been tapped to help on their own
time and out of their own pockets-
but he "provided" the tapes for pfal, which was always a net
profit for him.]
Edited by WordWolfLink to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
It's been so long now that I don't remember.
When we ran classes, did we pay some sort of rental or usage fee for the tapes and charts?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
HAPe4me
We didn't pay any rental for the charts and tapes during my time (72-86). We did have to sign them out, and had to travel sometimes to pick them up from whatever location the few sets were currently located.
There was an IRS reason for not allowing us to write a check for the cash in ABS. They were afraid someone would claim that amount as a tax deduction. Sometimes I would save the cash for several weeks rather than go get a money order each week. (Yeah, I just reported "no cash" on the blue form- bad bad twig coordinator) When that was questioned by the BC, I began to take the 50 cent Money order fee out of the cash ABS. sigh, no wonder I never had the abundant life while in TWI.
It just seemed silly for me to use my own 50 cents to get a money order for sometimes as little as a $1.50.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
Yeah, now it's coming back to me. We used to have to drive to the Limb HQ to pick-up/drop-off.
It was only a 300 mile round trip. Good thing they reimbursed us for gas. HaHaHaHaHaHa!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
outandabout
What ingrates.
I remember being told at a TC meeting that we needed to get the ABS into HQ faster because Howard Allen said they were losing interest. It ....ed me off. Instead of being grateful, they were worried about interest.
Ingrates.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
socks
There was an IRS reason for not allowing us to write a check for the cash in ABS. They were afraid someone would claim that amount as a tax deduction.
Not altogether unreasonable. For a business. And The Way straddled the fence on that issue for many years.
If it's a simple, friendly and ex officio function of the fellowship leader (as was advertised) there's no need for any of that. If however, income is being collected by formal process for a non-profit business then some form of controls are required by law, some minimal levels of record keeping and accounting for the money being collected, sent and spent.
it would have made much more sense looking back, to have local operations of the non-profit teaching and fellowship franchise to have accounts set up where deposits could be made into accounts and money rendered back into the Way Nash once a month, or at some regular interval, weekly, whatever. That way everyone knows what's going on all the time. I'm not saying it would have been the greatest idea but - hey, if you quack, walk and fly like a duck - be a duck.
It was a business. I'm not saying that's right or that's what everyone who got involved thought it was but rather, that's what was going on with this aspect of it. To treat it as otherwise doesn't make sense. But once treated as such there are issues that have to be dealt with and the "blue forms" method wasn't much of a method.
I once had a whole month or so of ABS that turned up in an envelope, in a branch I had been in, where it had never been mailed in. It created a lot of hassle getting it worked out, and at the time the Finance Dep't. at The Way Nash were extremely helpful and patient working through it. So I don't pretend to say that there's no "good way" to handle any or all of the possible variances and issues that might occur once you go down the road of embracing the business side of
this. But being in the middle and kinda sorta being a business- it doesn't work.
Not to mention that this ABS flow was, in fact,the primary income stream for the Way International for many years. I mean - come on. As an adult lo these many years now, I chuckle at the whole thingie, deal, stuff of it all. And stuff.
But for those who give and claim the IRS tax credit - fine. There's nothing wrong with that. But don't expect the "blessings" of God to roll out the window so huge you're drowned in greenbacks. Ain't gonna happen. You got your reward. Enjoy it.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tzaia
That's what envelopes with people's names on them are for. All the kids at the church I grew up in got envelopes with their names on them at the beginning of the year so we could give and get it counted towards us.
I never knew how the cash was dealt with in TWI. My first time I brought a dollar in pennies for a "love offering" - it was all I had. I got a couple of strange looks. Looking back I now wonder at the audacity of it all - invite me to something and expect me to pay, but it did serve a purpose of sorts.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
sometimes we took pennies out of horn 'a plenty and helped people -- please don't tell
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
Your secret's safe with me.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
chockfull
And due to them being such butt heads now WE have "lost interest".
Link to comment
Share on other sites
chockfull
One thing that's interesting to me reading through this is reflecting back on how boundaries are eroded by groups like TWI. This happens over time. It is never a choice that you have to make between "reasonable" and "completely morally wacky". It's always much smaller steps than that, a little at a time. "Well, it's just a little compromise, not a big deal".
For instance on all the BS logic regarding the IRS stuff above. They were afraid someone would claim the $1.27 in cash this week as a tax deduction? Really? And as a result of that it is reasonable to mandate that all TC's need to go out to either their bank, or a store, and purchase a 50 cent money order, which there is another rule that they are not allowed to be reimbursed for that?
I mean if we are talking real and logical fears here with respect to the handling of money, here are a few:
1) Accepting cash is untraceable, it could possibly come from a criminal enterprise and represent a money laundering scheme, opening up exposure to RICO charges.
2) Cash can be stolen
3) Cash can be kept by a TC and since there is no check cashed the person giving would never question it
4) Cash can be diverted to a different cause, same concerns.
Now each of those 4 represent at least as viable a risk as someone claiming the money for a tax deduction. But they never did anything about those risks? Why? Only the possible tax deduction one?
The why is that they are Pharisees. They place burdens upon people that they will not lift a little finger to help them with.
And for years and years I accepted the BS logic, the little compromises, until finally I found myself faced with the fact that all those little compromises added up over the years, and I wondered how I had got to that place.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
outandabout
ha ha good one!
Edited by outandaboutLink to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.