I would tell them to ask themselves if they are really truly happy with being in twi... Are they living the "more abundant life" and do they know of anyone who is? Is every day sweeter than the one before? Is fellowship a burden or a blessing? Is the love of God evident?
Are they learning anything?
And, if things have changed for the better, how come no one has ever apologized to those who were hurt?
Things I would say, can I have the floor and ramble?
1. Why have you given your free will to think for your self-over to Twi? Not God but the way international.
2. Why do you as an adult let leadership get involved in your life and influence where you live, where you work all so you can be close to a fellowship?
3. Why is there no growth in the fellowships? Are they still shrinking?
4. Do the Sts tapes put you to sleep? Can you name the last one that really got you excited about God, not the way int.? Is that person still standing?
5. Do the same people rehash the sts tapes and way mag? Is fellowship boring? Is it like it used to be where you were excited to go has it turned in to church?
6. If fellowship is so great why do you shrink in fear when its time to witness? When was the last time you went out and witnessed? Are you scared to witness?
7. When was the last time you have been to H.Q.? You will see the lifers on staff are getting older and the young people cannot wait to leave. Too much legalism.
8. When you hear Rosie speak, do you cringe? Is she so sappy and can only spout catch phrases and no depth to the word.
9. Is cancer and brain tumors still a devil spirit? Why did Donna have a brain tumor? Why does she have a job at hq? Why is she the prez asst when she has never done anything.? If she is so spiritual why could she not see he husband bopping everything that moved?
When I was still in, my family was made mark and avoid. They pressured me to get out... told me horrible stories about the abuses in TWI. Told me I was brainwashed, controlled, etc...
I would try and explain that I believed them, but that where I was was a nice place (which was true!)
My mother told me that I wasn't speaking for myself, that I was only speaking what The Way told me to speak. She told me that I was being controlled.
This is one of the things that led to me cutting off all contact with them when it was suggested I do so by my leadership... I felt like my mother and father DIDN'T RESPECT ME. That they thought I was an idiot. That they didn't believe I was capable of thinking for myself.
I was over at my mom's recently, and was talking about someone I know who is still in. My mom told me, "Wayfers are stupid. They have no brain. They are incapable of thinking for themselves!"
It still hurt to hear her say that. And then I realized something...
I LEFT OF MY OWN ACCORD.It was my OWN DECISION to leave. I didn't get kicked out or marked and avoided like my parents. I made the decision on my own. Even while in the cult, I HAD FREE WILL. Was I manipulated? Yes. Did I believe a lot of lies? Yes. And when I finally saw it for what it was, I LEFT.
I told my mom, "People in the Way still have their own minds. They can still think for themselves. They are just influenced by The Way... If they couldn't think for themselves, if they had 'no brains' then The Way wouldn't be losing followers left and right. People can make up their own minds, and they can see the hypocrisy if they choose to open their eyes."
Therein lies the rub - THEY have to CHOOSE for THEMSELVES.... and by telling them that they can't think for themselves you are implying that they are powerless, weakminded people... and it doesn't help them. It only diminishes you in their eyes.
Walk carefully with those who are still in. They are condemned enough by the TWI leadership machine. They are guilted enough. They are disrespected enough.
The best thing you can do for those who are in is show them there is another way, a way out. Show them that TWI's lies about what happens when you leave are false. Show them that the adversary will not send devil spirits to possess you if you leave. Show them they can be free and happy and blessed, and that God will not desert them. Just give them love without condemnation and conditions. They don't get that within TWI.
I realized during that same conversation with my mother that all those conversations where she told me how controlled I was, how brainwashed I was, how weak I was... It helped to drive me away from her and further into TWI. Not that any of that is my mother's fault. It's not... TWI is solely to blame for the schism in my family... but those conversations didn't help heal it.
I like the way you think newlife. Speaking of which...
I doubt the average member of the Way of average intelligence and education, y'know, the average guy or gal, feels they've given up their free will or is brainwashed or secretly wonders about their fellowships shrinking. If they're involved in the day to day's they know what's going on in their immediate realm. If they accept it, they're fine with it. If they wonder "why" this or that they would only need to ask and if they're rebuffed in a manner they find offensive or dishonest, well there you go, process started.
I always recommend to people in general and it would apply here - it's healthy to remain somewhat independent from the influence of others, while allowing open range for relationships and learning. I've always been that way. It works - you can be as tight as blink in an eye with someone else and still be your own person.
I do agree, if I read you right - telling them someone else did something 30, 20, 10, 1 year ago may have little or no impact. Whatever matters to people most is what matters most - they're immediate affairs and what impacts them and those close to them.
I'm a big fan of leaving people alone - something that Americans have a hard time doing despite our death-grip on what we loosely call "freedom". It can be hard as hail though to actually find people who will do that. We all think it's in everyone's best interests to be bugging the crap out of each other, for our own good. We mean well, we want the "best" for everyone but isn't that.....well, doesn't it sound familiar in a reverse kind of way? .....
"This is in your best interests because if you only knew better you'd be better off. Like me."
The idea of making a decision "on their own" - they already have. If they're happy they're happy.
You're right (li'l joke there) - it's completely useless to impose a bunch of moral issues in a theoretical vacuum and hope anyone's going to care. Some maybe, to some extent but really, there's no solid outcome you can expect from it and if there is it's accidental.
Try asking the person what their own impressions are and their own feelings and thoughts about their participation. Then respond to that.
If they're within the laws of the land and accceptable social norm's for the society we live in and aren't harming small animals, I don't get into other people's shorts unless - important caveat - I feel they're/our/mine health and safety is at risk. I concede there's some subjectivity to that call.
That being the case I proceed respectfully, as you are, remembering to not impose my own highly enlightened and obviously superior ideas on them.
Well, not at first anyway. I wait till they like me, than I bomb them. :biglaugh:
I'd say to them: "Give up the old songbooks, give up the stale, passionless videos, let people take the teachings on the Internet like modern organizations do, door-to-door witnessing is not only outdated in our modern culture, but unsafe (I think about someone greeting me with a shotgun one day), the guy with the guitar is lame (M1k3 M4rt1n?), the dancing guy (what's his name?), even lamer" and on and on. Somehow, I doubt they'd listen.
I remember a few years ago I was considering ripping an STS dvd to my hard drive. I mentioned it to a fellow believer I thought was relatively "normal", but he got mad and told me we can't ever duplicate anything da ministry produces, except with permission. Even for personal private use.
Fair enough, but I've heard that point pressed on other occasions, including someone who wanted to copy the "Household Heartbeat".
Looking back, though, I'd ask them why they're so adamant about copyright infringement, when so much of their material is copied word-for-word from other sources.
I'm thankful I was on Staff. Had I not been, I wouldn't have seen the top leadership in action. It was while I was on Staff that I realized there really isn't a MOG. Anyone claiming that title is full of $h!t because they put their shoes on and think the same way anyone else does. I saw LCM's limitations, flaws, and eccentricities. They weren't pretty the majority of the time. Then Rozilla isn't so great either. She does not go out of her way to be friendly, and her lack of public appearance lead me to believe she was full of $h!t as well. Then when she personally chewed my arse, I knew she was no better than LCM.
My time at HQ and the leadership wanting to take control of my life once I left Staff made me realize I didn't want any part of them ever again.
I would quote "The Matrix". "You have a red pill, and a blue pill. The red pill is a link to GreaseSpot Cafe. The blue pill will take you back to your existence before this conversation. You can choose to take one or the other. But once you take the red pill, it will change reality for you, and you can never return".
What is the one, or two things that you would tell an "innie" so that they could decide for themselves.....
newlife.....for me, it all depends on who "an innie" is?
1) a staff person?
2) an innie on the field?
3) corps? adv class grad? newbie?
4) what experiences has this innie had with twi?
Giving broad-stroke suggestions or advice is of little value. Each person has a unique set of experiences that interlace with a backdrop of family, friends, education, social and spiritual networks, etc. There are plenty of scriptural references that give us understanding towards "a word fitly spoken."
Someone on the field, depending on their experiences, classes taken, local leadership......the opportunity to share your suggestions or advice is far greater. But if the local corps goes on a yelling spree, it would be a safe bet that they might be giving you a phone call first. (hahaha)
In my opinion, the hq-staffer is ensnared more than any other "innie." Once again though, depending on the number of years on staff, level of involvement, degree of commitment, job satisfaction, your relationship with the staffer, etc.....it seems fair to say that few would listen you out. Unless.....you see it firsthand, and exit.
I'm thankful I was on Staff. Had I not been, I wouldn't have seen the top leadership in action. It was while I was on Staff that I realized there really isn't a MOG. Anyone claiming that title is full of $h!t because they put their shoes on and think the same way anyone else does. I saw LCM's limitations, flaws, and eccentricities. They weren't pretty the majority of the time. Then Rozilla isn't so great either. She does not go out of her way to be friendly, and her lack of public appearance lead me to believe she was full of $h!t as well. Then when she personally chewed my arse, I knew she was no better than LCM.
My time at HQ and the leadership wanting to take control of my life once I left Staff made me realize I didn't want any part of them ever again.
Ask them if having a 'multitude of counselors' is the same as being expected to obey every leader up the line in matters of your personal life? Ask them if that is Christlike--the hierarchy of leaders you must obey?
And if you don't obey the men above you in the ministry line, what are the ministry consequences?
I would tell them of my twi "credentials"...how I was a part of this organization for 13 years...
I would tell them how I went out wow and then into the corps...I would tell them how I personally knew VPW and LCM...and I would tell them that they are involved with an abusive cult and that they should run like hell.
I'm with Java. :) Telling me how wrong I am, how controlled (e.g. stoopid) and how TWI is ruining my life just pushes me further into the grasp of TWI.
My parents loved me and never talked about TWI or expressed their concerns to me - though I did find out after I left that they had considered hiring a deprogrammer but were afraid it would backfire (and it very well might have). What they did do was love me and encourage anything non-TWI related that I expressed interest in. They reminded me frequently of good times I had before TWI and the things I did well and did right prior to my involvement with TWI.
My mother sent me a book about girlfriends and it really pierced my heart. I realized I didn't have those kinds of good friends anymore and I certainly didn't have that kind of fun with the "friends" I had in TWI. I couldn't talk to TWI friends about anything and everything like I could my "real friends" I had dropped.
Some people may have nagging doubts about TWI and just need an excuse to leave - others aren't so uncomfortable with things enough to do something about it. Some are too scared to do something about it. Those who have been on staff forever don't see how they can survive in "the real world" and, for them, yah, it would be extremely difficult to adjust to making your own decisions and to get a job with the out dated skills of being on staff.
"A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still" is true. They have to really want to leave and come to that conclusion on their own - nothing you or I can say will change that. That's why so many who were kicked out join up with the offshoots. They didn't want to leave.
"A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still" is true. They have to really want to leave and come to that conclusion on their own - nothing you or I can say will change that. That's why so many who were kicked out join up with the offshoots. They didn't want to leave.
I believe you are correct...the true kool aid drinkers are, for the most part, "lost in space".
The first thing these folks want to do is give themselves a name and then hoist a flag.
It's all about egos, money and bulls **t...
...and for the followers... insecurities and the desire to do the right thing.
...and there's always somebody to exploit these good folks. Let's face it, not every turtle makes it to the sea. I'm hoping that our participation in this website makes a difference...and actually helps people.
I would tell them that Jesus does LOVE you and realizes your HEART was to know the bible but it was taught to you in a twisted manner,I would tell them if they want to continue to study the bible to take Precept classes from Precept Ministries because it is an indepth
teaching that will help straighten out the twisted scripture of The Way International and
I would tell them to talk to other people,or get therapy.
Some people like belonging to a church,some don't but get that Way Brain out of your head because it is trash and will keep you a SLAVE.
I would tell them I love them and want to leave no former way believer behind,like in a war
zone I want to carry you wounded people to safety and get you OUT of the War (Spiritually speaking)that your in.
This is what I would add to what has already been written:
There are those in twi who keep telling you that if you leave them, you will walk out from underneath God's protection, and, therefore you'll be leaving yourself wide open to all kinds of assaults from the adversary!
"THAT", as they are fond of saying "is a lie from the pit of hell"...only they are the ones lying to you. All they hope to gain is to keep you under the weight of their fist of fear. All of us who are now "outies" can tell you that you just cannot walk away from God like that! Don't fall for their lie.
The ability to separate the Truth from the lies are very hard to do when you are in because you think everything is truth, based on what you have been taught. But inwardly, you know there have been times when you have said to yourself...."What?" "That doesn't make any sense" OR "I don't think that's right", or "Why do we have to do that" or "Why is it always "MY" fault" and leadership is ALWAYS right.
How can a human being ALWAYS be right? I think there was only one that was ALWAYS right. How can you absolutely believe you are right in a situation, (in fact, know you are right), but when someone else says, "No you are wrong and you should be humble because I am your leadership and I am spiritually in charge....Do you abandon yourself in favor of accepting "Their truth". Why do you not trust yourself any more. Do you even know who you are any more???
Have you abandoned what you loved before you entered into TWI?
the problem with talking with anybody that is still in the way international is that they have to shut out all voices but way international voices to remain in the way international, so unless they are already looking for a way out of the way international, there's not a thing anybody can say, except for the spirit that works within each person. but if somebody was at a point of considering things, i would ask them "the things you see going on around you all the time in the way international, if you take those things and put them in the setting of any church, would you point at those things and say "see! that's what's wrong with religion!"?"
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JavaJane
I would tell them to ask themselves if they are really truly happy with being in twi... Are they living the "more abundant life" and do they know of anyone who is? Is every day sweeter than the one before? Is fellowship a burden or a blessing? Is the love of God evident?
Are they learning anything?
And, if things have changed for the better, how come no one has ever apologized to those who were hurt?
***edite for spelling.
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copenhagen
Things I would say, can I have the floor and ramble?
1. Why have you given your free will to think for your self-over to Twi? Not God but the way international.
2. Why do you as an adult let leadership get involved in your life and influence where you live, where you work all so you can be close to a fellowship?
3. Why is there no growth in the fellowships? Are they still shrinking?
4. Do the Sts tapes put you to sleep? Can you name the last one that really got you excited about God, not the way int.? Is that person still standing?
5. Do the same people rehash the sts tapes and way mag? Is fellowship boring? Is it like it used to be where you were excited to go has it turned in to church?
6. If fellowship is so great why do you shrink in fear when its time to witness? When was the last time you went out and witnessed? Are you scared to witness?
7. When was the last time you have been to H.Q.? You will see the lifers on staff are getting older and the young people cannot wait to leave. Too much legalism.
8. When you hear Rosie speak, do you cringe? Is she so sappy and can only spout catch phrases and no depth to the word.
9. Is cancer and brain tumors still a devil spirit? Why did Donna have a brain tumor? Why does she have a job at hq? Why is she the prez asst when she has never done anything.? If she is so spiritual why could she not see he husband bopping everything that moved?
10. When was the last time you saw a miracle?
More later.
Copenhagen
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JavaJane
When I was still in, my family was made mark and avoid. They pressured me to get out... told me horrible stories about the abuses in TWI. Told me I was brainwashed, controlled, etc...
I would try and explain that I believed them, but that where I was was a nice place (which was true!)
My mother told me that I wasn't speaking for myself, that I was only speaking what The Way told me to speak. She told me that I was being controlled.
This is one of the things that led to me cutting off all contact with them when it was suggested I do so by my leadership... I felt like my mother and father DIDN'T RESPECT ME. That they thought I was an idiot. That they didn't believe I was capable of thinking for myself.
I was over at my mom's recently, and was talking about someone I know who is still in. My mom told me, "Wayfers are stupid. They have no brain. They are incapable of thinking for themselves!"
It still hurt to hear her say that. And then I realized something...
I LEFT OF MY OWN ACCORD. It was my OWN DECISION to leave. I didn't get kicked out or marked and avoided like my parents. I made the decision on my own. Even while in the cult, I HAD FREE WILL. Was I manipulated? Yes. Did I believe a lot of lies? Yes. And when I finally saw it for what it was, I LEFT.
I told my mom, "People in the Way still have their own minds. They can still think for themselves. They are just influenced by The Way... If they couldn't think for themselves, if they had 'no brains' then The Way wouldn't be losing followers left and right. People can make up their own minds, and they can see the hypocrisy if they choose to open their eyes."
Therein lies the rub - THEY have to CHOOSE for THEMSELVES.... and by telling them that they can't think for themselves you are implying that they are powerless, weakminded people... and it doesn't help them. It only diminishes you in their eyes.
Walk carefully with those who are still in. They are condemned enough by the TWI leadership machine. They are guilted enough. They are disrespected enough.
The best thing you can do for those who are in is show them there is another way, a way out. Show them that TWI's lies about what happens when you leave are false. Show them that the adversary will not send devil spirits to possess you if you leave. Show them they can be free and happy and blessed, and that God will not desert them. Just give them love without condemnation and conditions. They don't get that within TWI.
I realized during that same conversation with my mother that all those conversations where she told me how controlled I was, how brainwashed I was, how weak I was... It helped to drive me away from her and further into TWI. Not that any of that is my mother's fault. It's not... TWI is solely to blame for the schism in my family... but those conversations didn't help heal it.
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socks
I like the way you think newlife. Speaking of which...
I doubt the average member of the Way of average intelligence and education, y'know, the average guy or gal, feels they've given up their free will or is brainwashed or secretly wonders about their fellowships shrinking. If they're involved in the day to day's they know what's going on in their immediate realm. If they accept it, they're fine with it. If they wonder "why" this or that they would only need to ask and if they're rebuffed in a manner they find offensive or dishonest, well there you go, process started.
I always recommend to people in general and it would apply here - it's healthy to remain somewhat independent from the influence of others, while allowing open range for relationships and learning. I've always been that way. It works - you can be as tight as blink in an eye with someone else and still be your own person.
I do agree, if I read you right - telling them someone else did something 30, 20, 10, 1 year ago may have little or no impact. Whatever matters to people most is what matters most - they're immediate affairs and what impacts them and those close to them.
I'm a big fan of leaving people alone - something that Americans have a hard time doing despite our death-grip on what we loosely call "freedom". It can be hard as hail though to actually find people who will do that. We all think it's in everyone's best interests to be bugging the crap out of each other, for our own good. We mean well, we want the "best" for everyone but isn't that.....well, doesn't it sound familiar in a reverse kind of way? .....
"This is in your best interests because if you only knew better you'd be better off. Like me."
The idea of making a decision "on their own" - they already have. If they're happy they're happy.
You're right (li'l joke there) - it's completely useless to impose a bunch of moral issues in a theoretical vacuum and hope anyone's going to care. Some maybe, to some extent but really, there's no solid outcome you can expect from it and if there is it's accidental.
Try asking the person what their own impressions are and their own feelings and thoughts about their participation. Then respond to that.
If they're within the laws of the land and accceptable social norm's for the society we live in and aren't harming small animals, I don't get into other people's shorts unless - important caveat - I feel they're/our/mine health and safety is at risk. I concede there's some subjectivity to that call.
That being the case I proceed respectfully, as you are, remembering to not impose my own highly enlightened and obviously superior ideas on them.
Well, not at first anyway. I wait till they like me, than I bomb them.
:biglaugh:
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Calavicci
I'd say to them: "Give up the old songbooks, give up the stale, passionless videos, let people take the teachings on the Internet like modern organizations do, door-to-door witnessing is not only outdated in our modern culture, but unsafe (I think about someone greeting me with a shotgun one day), the guy with the guitar is lame (M1k3 M4rt1n?), the dancing guy (what's his name?), even lamer" and on and on. Somehow, I doubt they'd listen.
I remember a few years ago I was considering ripping an STS dvd to my hard drive. I mentioned it to a fellow believer I thought was relatively "normal", but he got mad and told me we can't ever duplicate anything da ministry produces, except with permission. Even for personal private use.
Fair enough, but I've heard that point pressed on other occasions, including someone who wanted to copy the "Household Heartbeat".
Looking back, though, I'd ask them why they're so adamant about copyright infringement, when so much of their material is copied word-for-word from other sources.
Maybe that's why they're so sensitive about it.
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Nottawayfer
I'm thankful I was on Staff. Had I not been, I wouldn't have seen the top leadership in action. It was while I was on Staff that I realized there really isn't a MOG. Anyone claiming that title is full of $h!t because they put their shoes on and think the same way anyone else does. I saw LCM's limitations, flaws, and eccentricities. They weren't pretty the majority of the time. Then Rozilla isn't so great either. She does not go out of her way to be friendly, and her lack of public appearance lead me to believe she was full of $h!t as well. Then when she personally chewed my arse, I knew she was no better than LCM.
My time at HQ and the leadership wanting to take control of my life once I left Staff made me realize I didn't want any part of them ever again.
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chockfull
I would quote "The Matrix". "You have a red pill, and a blue pill. The red pill is a link to GreaseSpot Cafe. The blue pill will take you back to your existence before this conversation. You can choose to take one or the other. But once you take the red pill, it will change reality for you, and you can never return".
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skyrider
newlife.....for me, it all depends on who "an innie" is?
1) a staff person?
2) an innie on the field?
3) corps? adv class grad? newbie?
4) what experiences has this innie had with twi?
Giving broad-stroke suggestions or advice is of little value. Each person has a unique set of experiences that interlace with a backdrop of family, friends, education, social and spiritual networks, etc. There are plenty of scriptural references that give us understanding towards "a word fitly spoken."
Someone on the field, depending on their experiences, classes taken, local leadership......the opportunity to share your suggestions or advice is far greater. But if the local corps goes on a yelling spree, it would be a safe bet that they might be giving you a phone call first. (hahaha)
In my opinion, the hq-staffer is ensnared more than any other "innie." Once again though, depending on the number of years on staff, level of involvement, degree of commitment, job satisfaction, your relationship with the staffer, etc.....it seems fair to say that few would listen you out. Unless.....you see it firsthand, and exit.
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Broken Arrow
I would say hello and wish them well.
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waysider
I would remind them to rinse the mung bean sprouts frequently to avoid mold build-up.
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Twinky
Take it easy and slow, like Socks suggests.
But I'd wanna know:
>Do you feel loved there? Cared for? Valued? How does that feel...to you?
>How do you know leadership cares? How does that feel?
>Do you always feel slightly guilty for having done/not done something?
Aw, come on, let's go and hang out with some disreputable folks...like Jesus did.
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Bramble
Ask them if having a 'multitude of counselors' is the same as being expected to obey every leader up the line in matters of your personal life? Ask them if that is Christlike--the hierarchy of leaders you must obey?
And if you don't obey the men above you in the ministry line, what are the ministry consequences?
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GrouchoMarxJr
I'm a little more blunt than some...
I would tell them of my twi "credentials"...how I was a part of this organization for 13 years...
I would tell them how I went out wow and then into the corps...I would tell them how I personally knew VPW and LCM...and I would tell them that they are involved with an abusive cult and that they should run like hell.
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Belle
I'm with Java. :) Telling me how wrong I am, how controlled (e.g. stoopid) and how TWI is ruining my life just pushes me further into the grasp of TWI.
My parents loved me and never talked about TWI or expressed their concerns to me - though I did find out after I left that they had considered hiring a deprogrammer but were afraid it would backfire (and it very well might have). What they did do was love me and encourage anything non-TWI related that I expressed interest in. They reminded me frequently of good times I had before TWI and the things I did well and did right prior to my involvement with TWI.
My mother sent me a book about girlfriends and it really pierced my heart. I realized I didn't have those kinds of good friends anymore and I certainly didn't have that kind of fun with the "friends" I had in TWI. I couldn't talk to TWI friends about anything and everything like I could my "real friends" I had dropped.
Some people may have nagging doubts about TWI and just need an excuse to leave - others aren't so uncomfortable with things enough to do something about it. Some are too scared to do something about it. Those who have been on staff forever don't see how they can survive in "the real world" and, for them, yah, it would be extremely difficult to adjust to making your own decisions and to get a job with the out dated skills of being on staff.
"A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still" is true. They have to really want to leave and come to that conclusion on their own - nothing you or I can say will change that.
That's why so many who were kicked out join up with the offshoots. They didn't want to leave.
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GrouchoMarxJr
I believe you are correct...the true kool aid drinkers are, for the most part, "lost in space".
The first thing these folks want to do is give themselves a name and then hoist a flag.
It's all about egos, money and bulls **t...
...and for the followers... insecurities and the desire to do the right thing.
...and there's always somebody to exploit these good folks. Let's face it, not every turtle makes it to the sea. I'm hoping that our participation in this website makes a difference...and actually helps people.
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cheranne
I would tell them that Jesus does LOVE you and realizes your HEART was to know the bible but it was taught to you in a twisted manner,I would tell them if they want to continue to study the bible to take Precept classes from Precept Ministries because it is an indepth
teaching that will help straighten out the twisted scripture of The Way International and
I would tell them to talk to other people,or get therapy.
Some people like belonging to a church,some don't but get that Way Brain out of your head because it is trash and will keep you a SLAVE.
I would tell them I love them and want to leave no former way believer behind,like in a war
zone I want to carry you wounded people to safety and get you OUT of the War (Spiritually speaking)that your in.
I would say Rest in Jesus and Never Give Up!
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krys
This is what I would add to what has already been written:
There are those in twi who keep telling you that if you leave them, you will walk out from underneath God's protection, and, therefore you'll be leaving yourself wide open to all kinds of assaults from the adversary!
"THAT", as they are fond of saying "is a lie from the pit of hell"...only they are the ones lying to you. All they hope to gain is to keep you under the weight of their fist of fear. All of us who are now "outies" can tell you that you just cannot walk away from God like that! Don't fall for their lie.
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excathedra
i just say a little prayer
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chockfull
The biggest lie is that walking away from TWI is walking away from God.
LIE
Every step away from TWI is a step toward God.
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excathedra
yes i would concur i think god is very loving
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newlife
Interesting posts........
The ability to separate the Truth from the lies are very hard to do when you are in because you think everything is truth, based on what you have been taught. But inwardly, you know there have been times when you have said to yourself...."What?" "That doesn't make any sense" OR "I don't think that's right", or "Why do we have to do that" or "Why is it always "MY" fault" and leadership is ALWAYS right.
How can a human being ALWAYS be right? I think there was only one that was ALWAYS right. How can you absolutely believe you are right in a situation, (in fact, know you are right), but when someone else says, "No you are wrong and you should be humble because I am your leadership and I am spiritually in charge....Do you abandon yourself in favor of accepting "Their truth". Why do you not trust yourself any more. Do you even know who you are any more???
Have you abandoned what you loved before you entered into TWI?
Can you answer these questions honestly?
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cheranne
Today is The First Day of The Rest of Your Life!
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brainfixed
the problem with talking with anybody that is still in the way international is that they have to shut out all voices but way international voices to remain in the way international, so unless they are already looking for a way out of the way international, there's not a thing anybody can say, except for the spirit that works within each person. but if somebody was at a point of considering things, i would ask them "the things you see going on around you all the time in the way international, if you take those things and put them in the setting of any church, would you point at those things and say "see! that's what's wrong with religion!"?"
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Grace Valerie Claire
BA, bingo!
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