What is a drag about VeePee, is how he used that spirit teaching the world has been pushing for years; could VeePee have gotten away with his power grab without that spirit teaching?
"Spiritual Intimidation"....."I've got the answers" suppresses questioning, murmurs, and uprisings. In pfal, wierwille took the victor role in his conquests over other "religious leaders and bible scholars" who knew very little about the keys to "the Word's interpretation." See how it works.......hahaha
Chris Geer took the stage after wierwille's death....and DID THE SAME.
Only Geer had the answers. Remember all those Region/Limb guys flying over to Gartmore to "hear the deeper truths that wierwille, on his deathbed, had imparted to Geer, and Geer alone." A classic power-grab.
When wierwille handed the mantle to martindale in 1982.....the staff at hq numbered around 580 or so (?). All those staff positions bloated the bureaucracy of twi to ridiculous levels. Meal timess and Staff meetings could hardly be contained in the OSC lunchroom. And, the holiday party, with open bar, was an extravaganza of months of planning.
Wierwille had three secretaries and a host of staff who would jump at his commands. Bodyguards and valets would assist wierwille 24/7. Motorcoaches and girls, food and drambuie, reverence and fear.......wierwille was the object of self-indulgence.
The power-grab was complete.
Wierwille's "biblical research work" was being heralded around the world.
Wierwille's hq was on the cutting edge of "word in culture."
Wierwille's roa tent was "the biggest tent in the world."
Wierwille's way productions had performed at the Grand Ole Opry.
Wierwille's teaching ministry and the "Victor Paul Wierwille Word Over the World Auditorium."
And, yet.........how quickly it all came crumbling down. Tyranny only works in an environment of fear and control. When wierwille was gone........so was the fear and control. Martindale tried the same, but it didn't work.
A cult without a charismatic cult leader......is like a ship without a rudder (or motor).
I think sometimes that VeePees stopped doing research because of that pope-excathedra-style was going to be exposed, John 10:10 VeePee used the wrong meaning of that word life, in that verse.
Why didn't VeePee tell Martindale his dying words, instead of this Greer dude.
Regarding Martindale........the "athletes of the spirit" production sealed his fate of growing disapproval.
By 1983/84.....the "athletes" analogy in Ephesians was gaining steam in twi teachings and way rag. Javelins and discuses were replacing spears and shields. And, martindale being the college jock that he claimed to be....just couldn't resist the temptation of running with this theme week after week.
With the new auditorium groundbreaking, and inresidence corps girls with dance experience and broadway performers, and visions of a stage with orchestra pit.......WHAT ABOUT A DANCE PRODUCTION IN THE NEW AUDITORIUM IN 1985?
And further, one of the dancers suggested........martindale NEEDS to be the lead dancer. By June/July 1984, martindale was working out with fitness coaches, nutrition experts, dance practices, all dancers were being summoned to hq, and there was a polar shift in wayworld....hahaha.
The new auditorium was opened March 17, 1985.
Wierwille headed to Gartmore after this opening.
Wierwille died May 20, 1985.
Martindale was the lead dancer in AOS Production Opener....one week later (?)
The dance production was over-the-top idolatry on the "man of god."
Too much devil spirit emphasis and costumes dominated over the "believers" costumes.
Can one say, that this stage time in this new auditorium became a issue, was their a power-grap like thing going on with this auditorium stage, could other people use the stage for their own plays, or music.
Can one say, that this stage time in this new auditorium became a issue, was their a power-grap like thing going on with this auditorium stage, could other people use the stage for their own plays, or music.
It was a little like with the "Corps Chalet",
where the stated purpose had nothing to do with what the usage ended up being.
With the "Corps Chalet", vpw promised it would be a place for visiting corps to stay.
Once it was completed, vpw announced he was giving it to lcm and donna.
With the Auditorium, supposedly, twi could draw real performers to show up
to a farm in the middle of freaking NOWHERE and perform onstage.
It ended up being for Sunday night teachings and whatever lcm wanted,
starting with the musical.
And that bs about others wanting lcm to play the lead....
The AOS short performance already had a male and a female lead.
They'd worked together, and he was the right height and had rhythm.
lcm just hinted around ad nauseum until someone uttered the words he wanted
them to say "Why don't you play the lead?" then ran with it and had
What was the hype for the auditorium to be built for in the first place?
Twi had outgrown the BRC. In 1979, Way Builders was aggressively adding office space on the southside half of the OSC building....the north half was for warehousing, roa storage, food & freezer storage.
As office space was completed, whole departments began moving from the EOB building to the OSC. Each department was given a certain status of priority as the transition phase moved forward. By April 1980, food services areas and lunchroom were complete and regular meals in the BRC basement ceased. Within weeks, the Sunday Teaching Services were transitioned to the OSC "lunchroom" as well.
When twi purchased that land (40 acres?) just west of the way woods around 1980, it set wheels in motion to build a teaching center or auditorium. Several factors came into play: 1) The OSC lunchroom, with low ceilings, was just a temporary phase, 2) growth in twi, from 1978-84, was really bringing in the bucks, 3) twi shunned a church-syle building and seemed more acceptable to a "grand ole opry" type of building, 4) and besides, without a nice auditorium with a huge lobby for the statue of wierwille.....where else would twi put it for all the masses to see?
The auditorium, upon completion, was soon found to have major flaws. There were simply not enough bathroom facilities especially for the women. When twi used the auditorium for advanced classes and such.....the lines outside the women's bathrooms were horrendous. Many times, one of the men's bathrooms was sectioned off for the women.
Even Geer criticized twi's auditorium in stating the stage area was arrogant showmanship, too far removed from people and eye contact, and was more for entertainment than ministering to the people. So, for awhile, twi lowered the stage area for Sunday teachings to "come down to the level of the people."
Even wierwille, before his death remarked that the challenge of the auditorium would be to keep inspiring the people to come year after year. At a capacity of 1,440....it would challenge twi's president to keep those Sunday teachings hot and vibrant. I seriously doubt that wierwille never imagined Rosalie Fox Rivenbark to legislate 'script-reading' at twi's sunday reading services.
Today's twi.....far removed from 'research,' teaching and fellowship
........1) Re-searching and rehashing vpw's work
........2) Reading ministry (not teaching)
........3) Shunning & probation (no real fellowship)
What was the hype for the auditorium to be built for in the first place?
There was no "hype". The original BRC was basically a double-wide modular building, and a back extension was added in the 60's for more seating and held a Bookstore and small "A/V" room. It was small and overpacked the first time I visited there with friends from the West Coast, in '69. In fact, the local attendees were an entirely different crowd at that time - that's another story but it was over crowded already.
Building a larger meeting facility wasn't rocket science or particularly spiritual, on face value. Any similar organization would want to.do the same thing. Having been involved as a participant and contributor in many meetings and activities throughout those years into the 70's it was always obvious that The Way needed a permanent facility to do what we were attempting to do in piece meal form, constantly setting and resetting space for each meeting in cramped quarters, with no infrastructure and a grit-and-spit support philosophy. .
Other facilities were used for some things, like the "church" in New Bremen The Way bought. The Way Production concerts, coffee houses and recording studio were all there but The Way never used it for regular meetings. Parking was a factor, as it clogged the entire area on Saturday's and other days when there'd be events held there. I think the "Sydney House" was used for certain kinds of receptions and what-not but on average no one really gave a crap about that unless they were invited.
The entire process that produced the "new" auditorium out on The Way Woods property was something I wasn't involved in so I can't speak directly about it. Unfortunately it never became what I would have envisioned such a facility would be, looking towards the future in the 70's. I remember being on the periphery of some of the early discussions, hearing the progress, that kind of thing and it always seemed like a lot of hot air and reinvention of something that should have been very simple to do.
A lot of p.r. was done around the a/v install for instance and the company that put it all in. Odd - looking at it today on their videos it makes one wonder - "so where'd the time and money go?" The stage design is kind of "theater 101" and leaves a lot to be desired by all appearances considering what it's primarily used for. Hearing there was a shortage of bath rooms is hysterical, although my sympathies go to those who had to go.
What The Way did isn't unusual for churches though - versions of all stripe and type build huge monstrosities as testimonies to Their Great Brand of God so they can gather and feel good about their own wonderfulness, reflected in architectural grandeur because naturally it makes their gods happy. Somehow it seems completely true to form though that a great Place for Worship would be built without consideration for those might have to pee inbetween oblations.
Reznor sang it best:
God Money's not looking for the cure.
God Money's not concerned about the sick among the pure.
God Money, let's go dancing on the backs of the bruised.
Then Martindale's power-grabbing this auditorium, could be one of the things that left the door open for this Rosie chick, to make a move on Martindale.
I don't see it that way teach. It sounds like there's some sort of dark, evil plan. Craig didn't "power-grab" anything. He was the Prez of the Way Nash. The head CEO,
capo dei capi These are, were, garden variety average people involved. If it hadn't been Athletes of the Spirit, it would have been something else.
I don't see it as a series of moves and plays and "aha" moments that explain something that is evident on face value and doesn't require an explanation.
The Way Inc. was a business organization, one that in the best of all worlds was organized to support a teaching and outreach ministry. It was a tangible collection of people and "stuff".
Christianity requires none of that, at most a little bit goes a long way. The Way Inc. could have been here one day and gone the next and the Church of Christ wouldn't have been lost or damaged irreparably. Life goes on, until it doesn't.
God has a deep bench, there's a long history being lived out throughout all of this. The endless machinations of men and women in and around that to "do good" by their own intentions always causes the kind of results we can expect when men and when hmmm, "machinate", if you will. Some of it's worthwhile, we think. Some not.
It's like that old joke about jokes - was it funny?
Did anyone laugh? No? That answers that question.
But what's of value and worthwhile in this life is measured by the occupants. Other eyes are watching though. We would all do well to consider that perspective.
People plan, succeed, fail and accumulate a lifetime of what they hope will stack up to something, only to find what they already know - that when we leave this life for whatever comes next we leave it all behind. Whatever continues we hope and pray will have some value in the future but we are acutely aware that at that time we will have no control over the measurement so we do well to plan circumspectly. It's an interesting perspective, viewed that way. .
The auditorium? Power grabs? Does anyone really care or give a rats asz? These were little people doing little things viewed through eyes that magnify what they chose to see. It's the way of man.
I don't begrudge you or anyone else the time spent trying to postulate what this meant about that and what it meant to something else and how that caused whatever.
Looking back what if it was northing more than some mad scrum gone crazy. Whoever got the ball in the end - fine. Y'know? It's not my game.
An eloquent and poignant (did I spell either of those words correctly?)post by our beloved Socks...
...and of course I agree with his sentiments. The first time I entered the wow auditorium
I found it to be user unfriendly...it had a bad vibe to it. Even as Martindale pranced around
like Aquaman on speed, the facility itself seemed to lend itself to this egotistical performance.
After I witnessed the performance of atheletes of the underbelly, I knew that whatever I first involved myself with was nothing at all like I had perceived...everything began to unravel.
Recommended Posts
teachmevp
What is a drag about VeePee, is how he used that spirit teaching the world has been pushing for years; could VeePee have gotten away with his power grab without that spirit teaching?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
Intimidation is a well-used tool in this process.
"Spiritual Intimidation"....."I've got the answers" suppresses questioning, murmurs, and uprisings. In pfal, wierwille took the victor role in his conquests over other "religious leaders and bible scholars" who knew very little about the keys to "the Word's interpretation." See how it works.......hahaha
Chris Geer took the stage after wierwille's death....and DID THE SAME.
Only Geer had the answers. Remember all those Region/Limb guys flying over to Gartmore to "hear the deeper truths that wierwille, on his deathbed, had imparted to Geer, and Geer alone." A classic power-grab.
There are alpha males everywhere..........BEWARE.
Edited by skyriderLink to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
The power of twi was centralized at twi's hq.
When wierwille handed the mantle to martindale in 1982.....the staff at hq numbered around 580 or so (?). All those staff positions bloated the bureaucracy of twi to ridiculous levels. Meal timess and Staff meetings could hardly be contained in the OSC lunchroom. And, the holiday party, with open bar, was an extravaganza of months of planning.
Wierwille had three secretaries and a host of staff who would jump at his commands. Bodyguards and valets would assist wierwille 24/7. Motorcoaches and girls, food and drambuie, reverence and fear.......wierwille was the object of self-indulgence.
The power-grab was complete.
Wierwille's "biblical research work" was being heralded around the world.
Wierwille's hq was on the cutting edge of "word in culture."
Wierwille's roa tent was "the biggest tent in the world."
Wierwille's way productions had performed at the Grand Ole Opry.
Wierwille's teaching ministry and the "Victor Paul Wierwille Word Over the World Auditorium."
And, yet.........how quickly it all came crumbling down. Tyranny only works in an environment of fear and control. When wierwille was gone........so was the fear and control. Martindale tried the same, but it didn't work.
A cult without a charismatic cult leader......is like a ship without a rudder (or motor).
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Twinky
I don't think they're so much "alpha" males as laugh-a-males.
Or laughable males.
(Vomit icon anywhere?)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
For all of wierwille's catholic-bashing.......he sold a "pope-excathedra-style" mandating to his minions.
For all of wierwille's "research skills"......students slogged along by re-search wierwille's work.
For all the "study the scripture" mantras.....the way magazine was the "weekly standard" for branch coordinators.
For all the full-sharing friendships..........the mark and avoid shunning was instigated by the nod of the mog.
For all the "ground-swell of growth"..........only one stood holy-of-all at the top of the pyramid.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
teachmevp
I think sometimes that VeePees stopped doing research because of that pope-excathedra-style was going to be exposed, John 10:10 VeePee used the wrong meaning of that word life, in that verse.
Why didn't VeePee tell Martindale his dying words, instead of this Greer dude.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
His supposed dying words were to complain about martindale!
vpw groomed lcm for over a decade to replace him, finding him to be his
loyal drone, never challenging him, etc.
vpw made lcm the twi president over the objections of almost everyone.
lcm got the big chair and now felt safe to passive-aggressively ignore vpw
and encourage others to do so, since now HE had the big chair.
(Some didn't need encouragement- rosa-lie for years had been telling others
to tell vpw she wasn't in.)
vpw, the center of attention, was suddenly last weeks' news, his 15 minutes
up at last. He didn't like the direction things were going, AND he was
being ignored, so he went off to his OTHER drone, cg, the other man
who never challenged what vpw said or did. Naturally, he was able
to get the adulation and hero-worship he was suddenly missing.
His actual discussions were almost irrelevant.
Edited by WordWolfLink to comment
Share on other sites
teachmevp
I remember reading how this Greer dude got ownership of the way overseas, could that transaction have to do with this last words of VeePee thing?
I remember at the Rock of Unity, VeePee taught one night that he saw the seeds of something coming down the road, VeePee said, if we can't stand
together, then we need to stand alone, maybe VeePee was sitting this up back then, the last words of VeePee said to that Greer dude?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
Showboating.....eliciting loyalty
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Broken Arrow
How do you know this to be true? If most people objected, then who did most most support to assume the presidency?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
Regarding Martindale........the "athletes of the spirit" production sealed his fate of growing disapproval.
By 1983/84.....the "athletes" analogy in Ephesians was gaining steam in twi teachings and way rag. Javelins and discuses were replacing spears and shields. And, martindale being the college jock that he claimed to be....just couldn't resist the temptation of running with this theme week after week.
With the new auditorium groundbreaking, and inresidence corps girls with dance experience and broadway performers, and visions of a stage with orchestra pit.......WHAT ABOUT A DANCE PRODUCTION IN THE NEW AUDITORIUM IN 1985?
And further, one of the dancers suggested........martindale NEEDS to be the lead dancer. By June/July 1984, martindale was working out with fitness coaches, nutrition experts, dance practices, all dancers were being summoned to hq, and there was a polar shift in wayworld....hahaha.
The new auditorium was opened March 17, 1985.
Wierwille headed to Gartmore after this opening.
Wierwille died May 20, 1985.
Martindale was the lead dancer in AOS Production Opener....one week later (?)
The dance production was over-the-top idolatry on the "man of god."
Too much devil spirit emphasis and costumes dominated over the "believers" costumes.
Seeds of discontent were growing in twi.
..
Edited by skyriderLink to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
We just discussed this here:
"Why did vp choose lcm?"
As to the objections, posters have commented that they heard from
those who SUPPOSEDLY had a say in the process.
First of all, the idea of just anyone being nominated was a token
gesture meant to give the illusion of choice to the rank and file
whom vpw intended to ignore anyway.
(vpw knew how to play his audience like a harp from hell.)
Second of all, there were lots of COMPETENT people to draw from
in a talent pool. Walter C was the research head, which, for a
supposed RESEARCH ministry, seems an obvious choice. Several of
the previous Trunk Coordinators for the US and Regional Coordinators
were perfectly capable of taking over- they had experience, twi training,
and knew how to run things and handle people.
So, names like Lynn, Finnegan, Dubovsky and Townsend were tossed around
in addition to Cummins.
vpw had one choice, and was just going to hold on to his decision until
he wore everyone down, or just make the announcement by divine fiat.
"What was everyone told?
What did people think was the reason?
Or what was the reason?
I'll give you three for the price of one.
All based on what posters here have said over the years.
A) People were told, long before a choice was announced, that the search was on for the next
President, and to consider nominating their best choices. As they were told, potentially any
Advanced Class Grad was a candidate.
(However, even if the process was serious, it's obvious
it would have been an Advanced Class Grad who had been in no less than 5 years and more likely
more, who had previously or currently did hold a position of Limb Coordinator or higher.
At least, that's my opinion.)
So, people were nominating various top twi people for the position. Except lcm, since nobody
who was familiar with him thought he had the chops for the role- academic, presentation, etc.
(Someone like Walter C would have been an obvious choice if it was all about research.)
What I was personally told was that it was determined like in Acts 1, where the lot fell
upon Matthias- a vote. Obviously, this was a dirty lie someone had passed down. In reality,
the decision was up to vpw and ONLY up to him. Furthermore, a few people at the top gave all
their suggestions to him face to face, and NONE of them were lcm. In short, people were told
there was a process, but vpw had lcm selected long before he announced there WAS a process.
The "process" was yet another vpw lie. What a surprise! Who'd suspect vpw would lie to
everyone?
B) What some people thought was the thinking behind lcm's selection....
People discussing it among themselves were thinking it was something along the lines
of his Way Corps connections. lcm was a student in one of the early Corps (he's shown
as a student in the photos included in "The Way:Living in Love", leading people on a run-
which he was academically qualified to do because he was a jock in college, even though
he "rode the bench" on the football team.) Shortly after he finished that, he was put
briefly (IIRC) in charge of the WOW program, then was put in charge of the Corps overall.
With various Corps "vets" being familiar with him, perhaps the thinking was he'd have
their loyalty on that basis.
This was all speculation, and was all faulty. Those who were familiar with lcm were not
impressed with his demonstrated abilities. He wasn't even good at "running" the WOW
program or the Corps. This shouldn't be a huge surprise, since vpw took a guy hot out
of college and put him in charge of stuff and expected him to figure it all out.
lcm was never a smart man nor a scholar. He had no training in "figure it out", either.
So, he stumbled his way through his assignments. That's not really his fault- vpw put
him in positions time after time where and when he was fundamentally unprepared, and
did nothing to ameliorate that. There was never a "I will run this. I will show you how
this works. Pay close attention" and then a few years later "Now it's your turn."
So vpw sometimes corrected him AFTER THE FACT once lcm made a mistake.
Anyway, that was the guesswork. Since twi has a proud tradition of keeping its people in
the dark when it's not lying to them, and then announcing it's keeping them well-informed,
guesswork was all the AVERAGE peon on the field had. That and misinformation.
C) Someone in with vpw asked him right after lcm was announced-asked him why. vpw said that
lcm never questioned him- when vpw said to do something, lcm would just do it.
In other words, lcm had blind loyalty and a notable lack of thinking for himself.
This, in vpw's eyes, made him the ideal choice to replace himself as President.
Why?
We can only speculate why from here, but obviously it served vpw and not twi.
My guess is that he thought he'd be able to stay in charge whenever he wanted to,
but pulling lcm's strings like a puppet.
If so, that sure backfired. As soon as lcm had the big chair, he established that
he expected the blind loyalty to go to HIM. He had blind loyalty to the captain of
the ship, and now it was everyone else's turn to have that.
(We even know that because he TOLD one poster here. They asked if he was calling on
them to follow him BLINDLY, and he said that's what they already had been doing.
lcm was always a clueless jerk once vpw got his hooks into him.)
vpw eventually felt so neglected that he went to the other man who'd worshipped him
blindly- chris geer- and constructed a list of complaints about how twi was
SPIRITUALLY off ALL OF A SUDDEN and how it was all because they turned away from
vpw and did things without him.
(We weren't part of the discussions, but the main thrust was correct- vpw had also
spoken briefly to Ralph D on the way to visiting chris, and that general concept
was what was on his mind.)
===========================
lcm himself pretty much knew he was on the ministry "fast track" long before he
was announced. Go ahead and read his OWN account.
It was in his book, "VP and Me."
http://www.greasespo...-in-wonderland/
http://www.greasespo.../vp-and-me.html "
Edited by WordWolfLink to comment
Share on other sites
teachmevp
Can one say, that this stage time in this new auditorium became a issue, was their a power-grap like thing going on with this auditorium stage, could other people use the stage for their own plays, or music.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Broken Arrow
Thanks WordWolf!
Edited by Broken ArrowLink to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
It was a little like with the "Corps Chalet",
where the stated purpose had nothing to do with what the usage ended up being.
With the "Corps Chalet", vpw promised it would be a place for visiting corps to stay.
Once it was completed, vpw announced he was giving it to lcm and donna.
With the Auditorium, supposedly, twi could draw real performers to show up
to a farm in the middle of freaking NOWHERE and perform onstage.
It ended up being for Sunday night teachings and whatever lcm wanted,
starting with the musical.
And that bs about others wanting lcm to play the lead....
The AOS short performance already had a male and a female lead.
They'd worked together, and he was the right height and had rhythm.
lcm just hinted around ad nauseum until someone uttered the words he wanted
them to say "Why don't you play the lead?" then ran with it and had
the nerve to suggest it was never his idea.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
(Sorry for stealing your line, excie.)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
teachmevp
What was the hype for the auditorium to be built for in the first place?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
Twi had outgrown the BRC. In 1979, Way Builders was aggressively adding office space on the southside half of the OSC building....the north half was for warehousing, roa storage, food & freezer storage.
As office space was completed, whole departments began moving from the EOB building to the OSC. Each department was given a certain status of priority as the transition phase moved forward. By April 1980, food services areas and lunchroom were complete and regular meals in the BRC basement ceased. Within weeks, the Sunday Teaching Services were transitioned to the OSC "lunchroom" as well.
When twi purchased that land (40 acres?) just west of the way woods around 1980, it set wheels in motion to build a teaching center or auditorium. Several factors came into play: 1) The OSC lunchroom, with low ceilings, was just a temporary phase, 2) growth in twi, from 1978-84, was really bringing in the bucks, 3) twi shunned a church-syle building and seemed more acceptable to a "grand ole opry" type of building, 4) and besides, without a nice auditorium with a huge lobby for the statue of wierwille.....where else would twi put it for all the masses to see?
The auditorium, upon completion, was soon found to have major flaws. There were simply not enough bathroom facilities especially for the women. When twi used the auditorium for advanced classes and such.....the lines outside the women's bathrooms were horrendous. Many times, one of the men's bathrooms was sectioned off for the women.
Even Geer criticized twi's auditorium in stating the stage area was arrogant showmanship, too far removed from people and eye contact, and was more for entertainment than ministering to the people. So, for awhile, twi lowered the stage area for Sunday teachings to "come down to the level of the people."
Even wierwille, before his death remarked that the challenge of the auditorium would be to keep inspiring the people to come year after year. At a capacity of 1,440....it would challenge twi's president to keep those Sunday teachings hot and vibrant. I seriously doubt that wierwille never imagined Rosalie Fox Rivenbark to legislate 'script-reading' at twi's sunday reading services.
Today's twi.....far removed from 'research,' teaching and fellowship
........1) Re-searching and rehashing vpw's work
........2) Reading ministry (not teaching)
........3) Shunning & probation (no real fellowship)
.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
Don't think that "research means you search again" and
"we search again what twi's already done"
were new to the 1990s.
People who left in 1989 were hearing that from corps grads
into the 1990s.
(Yes, I was hearing that-at least the second quote, not the first.
Others heard the first.)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
socks
What was the hype for the auditorium to be built for in the first place?
There was no "hype". The original BRC was basically a double-wide modular building, and a back extension was added in the 60's for more seating and held a Bookstore and small "A/V" room. It was small and overpacked the first time I visited there with friends from the West Coast, in '69. In fact, the local attendees were an entirely different crowd at that time - that's another story but it was over crowded already.
Building a larger meeting facility wasn't rocket science or particularly spiritual, on face value. Any similar organization would want to.do the same thing. Having been involved as a participant and contributor in many meetings and activities throughout those years into the 70's it was always obvious that The Way needed a permanent facility to do what we were attempting to do in piece meal form, constantly setting and resetting space for each meeting in cramped quarters, with no infrastructure and a grit-and-spit support philosophy. .
Other facilities were used for some things, like the "church" in New Bremen The Way bought. The Way Production concerts, coffee houses and recording studio were all there but The Way never used it for regular meetings. Parking was a factor, as it clogged the entire area on Saturday's and other days when there'd be events held there. I think the "Sydney House" was used for certain kinds of receptions and what-not but on average no one really gave a crap about that unless they were invited.
The entire process that produced the "new" auditorium out on The Way Woods property was something I wasn't involved in so I can't speak directly about it. Unfortunately it never became what I would have envisioned such a facility would be, looking towards the future in the 70's. I remember being on the periphery of some of the early discussions, hearing the progress, that kind of thing and it always seemed like a lot of hot air and reinvention of something that should have been very simple to do.
A lot of p.r. was done around the a/v install for instance and the company that put it all in. Odd - looking at it today on their videos it makes one wonder - "so where'd the time and money go?" The stage design is kind of "theater 101" and leaves a lot to be desired by all appearances considering what it's primarily used for. Hearing there was a shortage of bath rooms is hysterical, although my sympathies go to those who had to go.
What The Way did isn't unusual for churches though - versions of all stripe and type build huge monstrosities as testimonies to Their Great Brand of God so they can gather and feel good about their own wonderfulness, reflected in architectural grandeur because naturally it makes their gods happy. Somehow it seems completely true to form though that a great Place for Worship would be built without consideration for those might have to pee inbetween oblations.
Reznor sang it best:
God Money's not looking for the cure.
God Money's not concerned about the sick among the pure.
God Money, let's go dancing on the backs of the bruised.
God Money's not one to choose.
Bow down before the one you serve.
You're going to get what you deserve.
And that goes for everyone.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
teachmevp
Then Martindale's power-grabbing this auditorium, could be one of the things that left the door open for this Rosie chick, to make a move on Martindale.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
socks
I don't see it that way teach. It sounds like there's some sort of dark, evil plan. Craig didn't "power-grab" anything. He was the Prez of the Way Nash. The head CEO,
capo dei capi These are, were, garden variety average people involved. If it hadn't been Athletes of the Spirit, it would have been something else.
I don't see it as a series of moves and plays and "aha" moments that explain something that is evident on face value and doesn't require an explanation.
The Way Inc. was a business organization, one that in the best of all worlds was organized to support a teaching and outreach ministry. It was a tangible collection of people and "stuff".
Christianity requires none of that, at most a little bit goes a long way. The Way Inc. could have been here one day and gone the next and the Church of Christ wouldn't have been lost or damaged irreparably. Life goes on, until it doesn't.
God has a deep bench, there's a long history being lived out throughout all of this. The endless machinations of men and women in and around that to "do good" by their own intentions always causes the kind of results we can expect when men and when hmmm, "machinate", if you will. Some of it's worthwhile, we think. Some not.
It's like that old joke about jokes - was it funny?
Did anyone laugh? No? That answers that question.
But what's of value and worthwhile in this life is measured by the occupants. Other eyes are watching though. We would all do well to consider that perspective.
People plan, succeed, fail and accumulate a lifetime of what they hope will stack up to something, only to find what they already know - that when we leave this life for whatever comes next we leave it all behind. Whatever continues we hope and pray will have some value in the future but we are acutely aware that at that time we will have no control over the measurement so we do well to plan circumspectly. It's an interesting perspective, viewed that way. .
The auditorium? Power grabs? Does anyone really care or give a rats asz? These were little people doing little things viewed through eyes that magnify what they chose to see. It's the way of man.
I don't begrudge you or anyone else the time spent trying to postulate what this meant about that and what it meant to something else and how that caused whatever.
Looking back what if it was northing more than some mad scrum gone crazy. Whoever got the ball in the end - fine. Y'know? It's not my game.
That's just my .02, for what it's worth.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
teachmevp
Thanks for that, but it seems Martindale kicked some key people out around Oct. or Nov. of 1985, so I was trying to understand some of this, thanks.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
GrouchoMarxJr
An eloquent and poignant (did I spell either of those words correctly?)post by our beloved Socks...
...and of course I agree with his sentiments. The first time I entered the wow auditorium
I found it to be user unfriendly...it had a bad vibe to it. Even as Martindale pranced around
like Aquaman on speed, the facility itself seemed to lend itself to this egotistical performance.
After I witnessed the performance of atheletes of the underbelly, I knew that whatever I first involved myself with was nothing at all like I had perceived...everything began to unravel.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.