I haven't been following this thread much. I just read the first page when it started. But I'll put in my 2 cents worth.
I think Mrs. Wierwille might have seen a lot of the bad about her husband and twi. She just never said anything about it, for one reason or another, and it hurt her.
Much like Mary the mother of Jesus, except what Mary should have done was speak the truth. Don't hold it inside! Speak up with wisdom.
Luke 2:51b but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart.
Jesus gave the charge to his disciples to take care of his mother. And I'll bet they did too!
JPW is speaking up!! Thank God!!
It's time to speak up without fear!
Ask Questions for God's sake!
Demand Answers!
Don't Hold Back!
There is wrong upon wrong happening at TWI still. People are still being hurt and not speaking up because of the fear that TWI teaches and has taught for decades. Even after we got away from it, it still lingers like a nightmare.
What I am going to post is not going to be popular. But TWI has a point though most wouldn't see it that way. I don't like the tone of their letter and the comment about inheritence was low and uncalled for. But they may be right,to a point, that they cannot use Ministry assets to care for Mrs. Weirwille.
Here is why. A non-profit group may not use it's monies to benift board members or their faimlies. They may hire them and pay them a wage, and even give them housing as long as they are not paid for their work on the board. In other words they may hire someone on the board as a teacher, but that must be seperate from their duties as president of the board. The same guidelines apply to their families. This is IRS law as I understand it. Mrs. Weirwille may (I repeat may,) fall into this catagory. If so it really is very difficult for them to help, short of taking a special collection up for her and this collection would not be tax exempt for the those who gave. I should point out though, that since VPW is dead and she was never, as far as I know, a member of the board of trustees, this rule may not apply to her.
If Mrs Weirwille does not fall into that catagory they can help by giving money. But in most cases the government frowns on them doing so unless the person has no other means available, or these funds are not enough to provide the needed care.
Now that I've said all of this, before I get flamed I want to repeat that I found the letter insulting to all involved. I will also say, that since her care was VPW's wish they should have set up a means via insurance and other means long before this. That they are not easly able to provide this care for her indicates a lack of planning ahead on their part.
I am not offended either. There is room for everyone's opinion here at Greasespot.
That said, I maintain my original position. If twi cannot "figure it out" as to how to do the right thing as a corporation, then the responsibility lies firmly on the shoulders of the twi board of directors to "DO THE RIGHT THING," as individuals. Rosalie Rivenbark has enough personal reserves to liquidate some and pay for the care of Mrs. Wierwille in her sunset and final years.
Dorothea Kipp Wierwille's family property (The Kipp Farm) was purchased "for a song" by twi and then eventually sold off in the last ten years to defer expenses. (Can anyone say "PAY LEGAL BILLS?")
The current twi bod represent themselves ro their followers as "carrying on God's ministry" to the world. Is it wrong for those of us that invested (rightly or wrongly) years of our lives in that ministry to now request them to live up to their own PR?
This is simply a matter of doing what is right, what is moral, what is Godly.
I agree they should have done the right thing in the first place.
I am a member of a church board and I know their legal limitations. Still, I am a firm believer in doing what is right.
In a CPR/AED course I had it explained this way. If a child was drowning in a posted ?no swimming, violators to be fined.? Would you break the law and risk the fine to save the child?s life? Of course you would. This is the position that TWI has placed themselves in, they are just making the wrong decision.
To answer someone else?s question. I don?t think there is anything that would prevent them from returning the farm and land back to Mrs. Wierwille and/or her family?.except of course that that would mean giving up almost all the land TWI owns and with the improvements they have made, the property tax bills might force them to give it up again.
I agree with you and Radar on this one. They should have felt compelled to have figured something out for Mrs. Wierwille years ago, or at the very least, taken care of her out of their own pockets. Seeing as she is "of the household" and all. And seeing that they would have never had the lifestyle that they have now without her help financially and personally.
~ There are assets family and friends could put into a corservatorship trust to assist with the care of Mrs. Weirwille...I find it hard to believe that the bod haven't any personal assets ~ aside from their corporation ~ that could go into this trust.. along with Mrs. Weirwille's own personal assets...
The money CAN be used to augment her care...while not subjecting her to lose the benefits available to every senior today.
There is specific language to these type of trusts...but they can be done, and should have been considered before now.
It's not to late though...a lawyer files the properly worded trust...it's set up...her personal assets remain there...her care is augmented by dispersments ~ overseen by a trustee (not way person)...and she can live out her days with quality care and dignity.
This is something everyone neds to learn about..when dealing with aging parents, yourselves, whatever.
Think about your future...your resourses...don't leave it up to chance!
Things can still be done in this situation...and Harvey must already know it.
How much has the bod benefitted from Mrs. Weirwille?
Plenty.
There certainly can be a return ~ now ~ if she needs it.
I don't know about anybody else, but I would have a lot of respect for TWI if they deeded the farm back to the Weirwilles. They can "believe G-d" for a new HQ site. They can start over. They apparently disassociate themselves from VPW, no longer calling him "our father in the Word"??? and don't welcome Weirwille family members to their ancestral home. Get a new home TWI!! It's easy!! Just "believe G-d"
maybe i just don'g get it. why are people expecting twi to do the right thing? they did what they have always done! USE PEOPLE!
when they are finished with you, and gotten all they can out of you, - you get dumped, by the roadside at night, m@a'd, lied about, or put in an institution. this is after they have seperated your family. welfare, social services, counselors, physicians and churches are left to pick up the crumbs of our lives. hopefully there is enough to rebuild.
like doc w. treated her right? --> so why should the corporation he started?
[This message was edited by cc ray on November 01, 2003 at 17:18.]
He surly wasn't my father in any thing nor a Dr. of any thing. Not unless u believe in Oz and a diploma mill to say he deserved being or did the work to become one. Not unless lieing and cheating and stealing is considered work.
[This message was edited by Danny on November 02, 2003 at 10:24.]
I have just become interested in Messianic believing (attended my 4th fellowship yesterday) and Messianics use this way to spell. We also use Yaweh. Are you Messianic? I know 3 Corp grads into this now.
TWI is doing the right thing in shooting themselves in the foot by posting a reply that everyone sees through, especially those that have spent more than a week away from the organizations cliche logic. Once again they are trying to put a dividing block between a family. This time it is JP and his sister. Same tactic, different day.
I haven't read all the posts on this thread, so if someone has already mentioned this, please don't roast me...
But I can't help but to be troubled by a comment that I read when this whole story broke, and that was that Mrs. W, did NOT seems to ge tthe medications she needed for her condition.
I KNOW there were some RNs on staff when I was there - it wasn't that long ago. WHY did she go without meds? It sounds as though there was awareness of her symptoms.
Has anyone addressed this?
(Or was no one authorized to go to Canada to get the cheaper meds because they'd be burning gas for a company with non-prof. status?)
I don't think there's a way to really address issues about why Mrs. W didn't get medication she needed. I left 2 years ago, and I could tell back then that she appeared to have symptoms of alzheimer's. twi was pretty secretive of things concerning her. I only know when they stopped letting her drive, they asked people on staff to let their dept. coord know that they would be willing to drive Mrs. W to places to shop (i.e., KMart, Wal-Mart, grocery store, etc.) I personally don't know anyone who actually did it though. Maybe they utilized her escort more for these things. I can't remember at that time whether Don W. was still alive or not. Even if he was, I'm sure he was too sick to do these kinds of things for her.
When I was first on Staff, we had 100% reimbursement of medical and prescription. When they told us we were taking a pay cut, they reduced the reimbursement to 80% for the staff, but it is my understanding that the trustee household was still reimbursed 100%. I can't see Mrs. W not falling in to remaining the 100% category. She should have been able to have meds she needed. So if she did not get them, there's no explanation for it. Maybe twi was just in denial that she actually had alzheimer's. It is a disease that affects the mind. Any discriminating wayfer would say that shouldn't happen to the household. After all you know, the Word you hold in your mind keeps you sharp. Sure it does, but there are also genetics and an adversary who does things we can't always control. And sometime .... just happens. Look at the first bot. They all died fairly young because of illnesses out of their control. I remember hearing that ermal owens knew he was going to die a year before it happened.
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socks
George, maybe it's becaue Mrs. W. couldn't "work" for the Way anymore. Which begs the question, just what does an 8 hour day of Harvey's "work" consist of? What do ANY of them do for "work"? I've bee
excathedra
jp decided to do that site and before that.... it was on here.... ?
excathedra
or did he lie in his opening sentence.... and if he lied in one place people....
does the whole letter fall apart ?
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
hey harvey are you in charge of way productions ? wasn't rosie (now my life is rosie, oh we'll be happy i know, with a girl like rosie) at one time ?
?
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Vertical Limit
I haven't been following this thread much. I just read the first page when it started. But I'll put in my 2 cents worth.
I think Mrs. Wierwille might have seen a lot of the bad about her husband and twi. She just never said anything about it, for one reason or another, and it hurt her.
Much like Mary the mother of Jesus, except what Mary should have done was speak the truth. Don't hold it inside! Speak up with wisdom.
Luke 2:51b but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart.
Jesus gave the charge to his disciples to take care of his mother. And I'll bet they did too!
JPW is speaking up!! Thank God!!
It's time to speak up without fear!
Ask Questions for God's sake!
Demand Answers!
Don't Hold Back!
There is wrong upon wrong happening at TWI still. People are still being hurt and not speaking up because of the fear that TWI teaches and has taught for decades. Even after we got away from it, it still lingers like a nightmare.
Give 'em Hell JPW!
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Keith
What I am going to post is not going to be popular. But TWI has a point though most wouldn't see it that way. I don't like the tone of their letter and the comment about inheritence was low and uncalled for. But they may be right,to a point, that they cannot use Ministry assets to care for Mrs. Weirwille.
Here is why. A non-profit group may not use it's monies to benift board members or their faimlies. They may hire them and pay them a wage, and even give them housing as long as they are not paid for their work on the board. In other words they may hire someone on the board as a teacher, but that must be seperate from their duties as president of the board. The same guidelines apply to their families. This is IRS law as I understand it. Mrs. Weirwille may (I repeat may,) fall into this catagory. If so it really is very difficult for them to help, short of taking a special collection up for her and this collection would not be tax exempt for the those who gave. I should point out though, that since VPW is dead and she was never, as far as I know, a member of the board of trustees, this rule may not apply to her.
If Mrs Weirwille does not fall into that catagory they can help by giving money. But in most cases the government frowns on them doing so unless the person has no other means available, or these funds are not enough to provide the needed care.
Now that I've said all of this, before I get flamed I want to repeat that I found the letter insulting to all involved. I will also say, that since her care was VPW's wish they should have set up a means via insurance and other means long before this. That they are not easly able to provide this care for her indicates a lack of planning ahead on their part.
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excathedra
i'm not offended
would anything prevent them from deeding the house and/or farm back over to her ?
?
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Radar OReilly
Keith,
I am not offended either. There is room for everyone's opinion here at Greasespot.
That said, I maintain my original position. If twi cannot "figure it out" as to how to do the right thing as a corporation, then the responsibility lies firmly on the shoulders of the twi board of directors to "DO THE RIGHT THING," as individuals. Rosalie Rivenbark has enough personal reserves to liquidate some and pay for the care of Mrs. Wierwille in her sunset and final years.
Dorothea Kipp Wierwille's family property (The Kipp Farm) was purchased "for a song" by twi and then eventually sold off in the last ten years to defer expenses. (Can anyone say "PAY LEGAL BILLS?")
The current twi bod represent themselves ro their followers as "carrying on God's ministry" to the world. Is it wrong for those of us that invested (rightly or wrongly) years of our lives in that ministry to now request them to live up to their own PR?
This is simply a matter of doing what is right, what is moral, what is Godly.
Radar
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Keith
I agree they should have done the right thing in the first place.
I am a member of a church board and I know their legal limitations. Still, I am a firm believer in doing what is right.
In a CPR/AED course I had it explained this way. If a child was drowning in a posted ?no swimming, violators to be fined.? Would you break the law and risk the fine to save the child?s life? Of course you would. This is the position that TWI has placed themselves in, they are just making the wrong decision.
To answer someone else?s question. I don?t think there is anything that would prevent them from returning the farm and land back to Mrs. Wierwille and/or her family?.except of course that that would mean giving up almost all the land TWI owns and with the improvements they have made, the property tax bills might force them to give it up again.
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excathedra
thank you keith
love,
someone
just teasing
;)-->
?
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shazdancer
Hi, Keith, and welcome to da 'Spot.
I agree with you and Radar on this one. They should have felt compelled to have figured something out for Mrs. Wierwille years ago, or at the very least, taken care of her out of their own pockets. Seeing as she is "of the household" and all. And seeing that they would have never had the lifestyle that they have now without her help financially and personally.
And isn't it convenient that they now invoke their 501©(3) status, when they seem to have overlooked it when they wanted Staff to make their beds and do their laundry....
Regards,
Shaz
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excathedra
this is what is so sad, really, shaz
you don't "all of a sudden" become legalistic by the book when it suits you
compassion or the love of god should be a consideration
?
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Ginger Tea
~ There are assets family and friends could put into a corservatorship trust to assist with the care of Mrs. Weirwille...I find it hard to believe that the bod haven't any personal assets ~ aside from their corporation ~ that could go into this trust.. along with Mrs. Weirwille's own personal assets...
The money CAN be used to augment her care...while not subjecting her to lose the benefits available to every senior today.
There is specific language to these type of trusts...but they can be done, and should have been considered before now.
It's not to late though...a lawyer files the properly worded trust...it's set up...her personal assets remain there...her care is augmented by dispersments ~ overseen by a trustee (not way person)...and she can live out her days with quality care and dignity.
This is something everyone neds to learn about..when dealing with aging parents, yourselves, whatever.
Think about your future...your resourses...don't leave it up to chance!
Things can still be done in this situation...and Harvey must already know it.
How much has the bod benefitted from Mrs. Weirwille?
Plenty.
There certainly can be a return ~ now ~ if she needs it.
Harvey ~ not everyone was born yesterday!
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krys
I agree, it should be...however it never was before - - so why spoil a perfect record at this point in time.
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Kit Sober
Followers of Jesus Christ, the true disciples of Jesus Christ, will be known for the love they have one toward another. -- Is this so difficult?
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CircleGame
I don't know about anybody else, but I would have a lot of respect for TWI if they deeded the farm back to the Weirwilles. They can "believe G-d" for a new HQ site. They can start over. They apparently disassociate themselves from VPW, no longer calling him "our father in the Word"??? and don't welcome Weirwille family members to their ancestral home. Get a new home TWI!! It's easy!! Just "believe G-d"
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wyteduv58
HHHHHmmmmmm Dr. w. not the father in the word?
Who is then.....surely not Loy
Dovey....proud owner of two low riders...Dovey's Doxies...... Dovey
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cc ray
maybe i just don'g get it. why are people expecting twi to do the right thing? they did what they have always done! USE PEOPLE!
when they are finished with you, and gotten all they can out of you, - you get dumped, by the roadside at night, m@a'd, lied about, or put in an institution. this is after they have seperated your family. welfare, social services, counselors, physicians and churches are left to pick up the crumbs of our lives. hopefully there is enough to rebuild.
like doc w. treated her right?
--> so why should the corporation he started?
[This message was edited by cc ray on November 01, 2003 at 17:18.]
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Danny
He surly wasn't my father in any thing nor a Dr. of any thing. Not unless u believe in Oz and a diploma mill to say he deserved being or did the work to become one. Not unless lieing and cheating and stealing is considered work.
[This message was edited by Danny on November 02, 2003 at 10:24.]
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DamitJanet
I have just become interested in Messianic believing (attended my 4th fellowship yesterday) and Messianics use this way to spell. We also use Yaweh. Are you Messianic? I know 3 Corp grads into this now.
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Tumbleweed Kid
cc ray
TWI is doing the right thing in shooting themselves in the foot by posting a reply that everyone sees through, especially those that have spent more than a week away from the organizations cliche logic. Once again they are trying to put a dividing block between a family. This time it is JP and his sister. Same tactic, different day.
Loves Buffalo Wings and Hot Sauce!!!
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CircleGame
I use "believe G-d" because I was being sarcastic (using the Way saying)
What are messianic teachings DamitJanet?
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Tumbleweed Kid
DAmitjanet and Imablr? your getting way off topic. I know this is a high traffic thread, but can't you take it to a separate thread.
Loves Buffalo Wings and Hot Sauce!!!
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excathedra
don't mind me
?
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wasway
nah probably shouldn't. look on the testing site if you want to see the post
CLICK HERE
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ChasUFarley
**DISCLAIMER**
I haven't read all the posts on this thread, so if someone has already mentioned this, please don't roast me...
But I can't help but to be troubled by a comment that I read when this whole story broke, and that was that Mrs. W, did NOT seems to ge tthe medications she needed for her condition.
I KNOW there were some RNs on staff when I was there - it wasn't that long ago. WHY did she go without meds? It sounds as though there was awareness of her symptoms.
Has anyone addressed this?
(Or was no one authorized to go to Canada to get the cheaper meds because they'd be burning gas for a company with non-prof. status?)
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Nottawayfer
I don't think there's a way to really address issues about why Mrs. W didn't get medication she needed. I left 2 years ago, and I could tell back then that she appeared to have symptoms of alzheimer's. twi was pretty secretive of things concerning her. I only know when they stopped letting her drive, they asked people on staff to let their dept. coord know that they would be willing to drive Mrs. W to places to shop (i.e., KMart, Wal-Mart, grocery store, etc.) I personally don't know anyone who actually did it though. Maybe they utilized her escort more for these things. I can't remember at that time whether Don W. was still alive or not. Even if he was, I'm sure he was too sick to do these kinds of things for her.
When I was first on Staff, we had 100% reimbursement of medical and prescription. When they told us we were taking a pay cut, they reduced the reimbursement to 80% for the staff, but it is my understanding that the trustee household was still reimbursed 100%. I can't see Mrs. W not falling in to remaining the 100% category. She should have been able to have meds she needed. So if she did not get them, there's no explanation for it. Maybe twi was just in denial that she actually had alzheimer's. It is a disease that affects the mind. Any discriminating wayfer would say that shouldn't happen to the household. After all you know, the Word you hold in your mind keeps you sharp. Sure it does, but there are also genetics and an adversary who does things we can't always control. And sometime .... just happens. Look at the first bot. They all died fairly young because of illnesses out of their control. I remember hearing that ermal owens knew he was going to die a year before it happened.
Laughter is a tranquilizer with no side effects.
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