I don't think the poster is questioning the importance of ant colonies. I think the poster is questioning the purpose of all of life. Is the purpose of our lives simply to generate other lives? Is the purpose of this life simply to keep things going, maintain the status quo, so that another generation can rise up and repeat the process?
It all seems so pointless because if you strip everything down to its most basic component, everything and everyone around us is in the process of dying and decaying. (Well, I feel better now! Let's join hands and sing, "Kum bye yah!")
Fyodor Dostoyevsky, in is novel Brothers Karamazov makes a point in saying, "If there is no God, everything is permissable. Who's to say murder is bad? We'll all end up dead anyway. May as well help reduce the surface population, to borrow a phrase from Ebenezer Scrooge. Who's to say anything is bad? We've had our Hitlers and Stalins in the past. These are extreme examples of men who had to have everything their own way. "Good" to them, was whatever was good for them. Cross them, and you were executed. Were they wrong? How about the holocaust, was it wrong? Who's to say?
I don't agree with the poster who said that without God we are nothing more than an ant farm but I see his point. Without God, we simply follow a code for reasons that we're not sure of and like ants we don't question it. I don't think an ant farm is a good metaphor, though, it's insulting to the ants.
I agree with what you say about TWI's method of dehumanizing but I don't see how you make the jump from comparing life without God to abuse from TWI.
Fyodor Dostoyevsky, in is novel Brothers Karamazov makes a point in saying, "If there is no God, everything is permissable. Who's to say murder is bad? We'll all end up dead anyway. May as well help reduce the surface population, to borrow a phrase from Ebenezer Scrooge. Who's to say anything is bad? We've had our Hitlers and Stalins in the past. These are extreme examples of men who had to have everything their own way. "Good" to them, was whatever was good for them. Cross them, and you were executed. Were they wrong? How about the holocaust, was it wrong? Who's to say?
Well this certainly is very like the leadership in TWI. How many people have you known that have crossed them? What was their fate? While they were not executed, effectively they were excommunicated, blackballed, fired, given the "bum's rush", burned, marked and avoided, placed on "probation", and the like. To the Board of Dummies of TWI, there is no God. They are not restrained to do the evil that they imagine in their little minds.
well it was clear in my mind that the reason i did not include the name of the person that wrote what i quoted was so that nobody would think i was talking about what the person wrote or the person's point of view or anything like that, but something must have happened between my mind and what i wrote or something, so let me say it maybe a better way, ok? for the purpose of this discussion, i don't suppose to know or even want to know or even really care to know what the person that wrote what i quoted was thinking or trying to communicate because all that matters for the purpose of this discussion is what i thought about when i read what was written. now that being said, please recognize that i am isolating that itty bitty part of another discussion from its whole context for the purpose of not associating it with its context so that i can have a completely different discussion about what that itty bitty and very isolated part made me think about, and what it made me think about was the old way international mind set of "you can't offend a dead man" and the others i mentioned. if that isn't clear enough now, i don't know how to make it clearer. and it has nothing whatsoever to do with the discussion that i took the quote from in the first place.
excathedra, that's like the very second thing i thought about when i read that statement! how interesting that you and i picked up on that! :)
I apologize if I was offensive, I certainly didn't intend to be. Apparently I'm unclear as to what exactly the subject is here, and I don't wish to derail this post further by causing you to explain yourself anymore. It really is o.k. Obviously you have other posters who seem to be on track with you so I'll just leave this post to you all.
I look forward to dialoging with you on another post sometime.
I apologize if I was offensive, I certainly didn't intend to be. Apparently I'm unclear as to what exactly the subject is here, and I don't wish to derail this post further by causing you to explain yourself anymore. It really is o.k. Obviously you have other posters who seem to be on track with you so I'll just leave this post to you all.
I look forward to dialoging with you on another post sometime.
i thought i was the one being offensive by pulling that quote and i wanted to make sure that nobody thought i was trying to start in on somebody in a new discussion so i did an overexplanation thing. see how things can go sometimes? it is ok and i'm sorry i made you feel like you were offensive.
reading what others are saying there were so many excuses to abuse, weren't there? why i fell for them is one of the things that keeps me going back to therapy again and again because it just bugs the heck outta me because i have a thinking mind and i didn't fall for much in the way international, but to this day i am always wondering if i've given offense or caused someone else to "stumble in their believing". that's not my responsibility!!!!!!!!! why in the he!! did i ever fall for thinking that it is???? if i'm working with a child, then i know better than to tax their understanding, but when i'm working with adults, dang! they'd better be able to think for themselves! yes there are some exceptions, and it's not the ones most of us think are the exceptions because those most of us think are the exceptions would be pretty POed if we treated them with exceptions, but most adults in this world prefer to think for themselves, and those who don't really are not the type of people i want to have in my life because they tend to suck the soul right out of me. so when i find myself not thinking for myself i get really really upset and reach right down into the root of it and get it out of me but quick like and figure out why. and trending back to way international thinking is not thinking for myself.
I'm sure the excuse was, "it's to edify you, g*****it", but I hear a kid who was one of the few taking the last round of the foundational class didn't speak in tongues during the appointed session, and refused to in that setting. Apparently the f.c. who was running the class really laid into him about it, even went to his house one morning about it, with out so much as a phone call. It turns out he's not coming to a fellowship ever again. Way to go, no pun intended.
I just got an email from my f.c. about a discussion he had with the region coordinator. Evidently, he mentioned my wife and I have not been Abs'ing to the region guy. Ooooooh. The Email tried to sound all nice and concerned, but there was clearly veiled disapproval about the way me and my wife are doing things. Surely our hard times must be our fault. Not believing, and more importantly, not tithing. I shudder to think about my private business being discussed like that.
This guy is old school corps, from back in the mid/late eighties, so nothing has changed.
If there are any spies here, they may have enough now to "out" me, but I don't care.
I'm sure the excuse was, "it's to edify you, g*****it", but I hear a kid who was one of the few taking the last round of the foundational class didn't speak in tongues during the appointed session, and refused to in that setting. Apparently the f.c. who was running the class really laid into him about it, even went to his house one morning about it, with out so much as a phone call. It turns out he's not coming to a fellowship ever again. Way to go, no pun intended.
Ironic. The guy who ran the first class that I ever took was p!$$ed, because I already spoke in tongues.
I made the mistake of telling him that the Catholic Charismatics taught me about it. No "trophy" for twi at session 12 with me.
And I think that is all they were looking for.....a "trophy". If they had any hint about your worth, even as we here at GSC interact with you....they would never have treated you badly.
pass the horn a plenty and stand speak in tongues and interpret
Thanks, glad to be here.
I can't stand to even see one of those horns again. One of the way's religious symbols. It's a shame, I probably won't be around to see the new "yearly theme" and accompanying boring, predictable posters. A real shame.
I'm sure the excuse was, "it's to edify you, g*****it", but I hear a kid who was one of the few taking the last round of the foundational class didn't speak in tongues during the appointed session, and refused to in that setting. Apparently the f.c. who was running the class really laid into him about it, even went to his house one morning about it, with out so much as a phone call. It turns out he's not coming to a fellowship ever again. Way to go, no pun intended.
I just got an email from my f.c. about a discussion he had with the region coordinator. Evidently, he mentioned my wife and I have not been Abs'ing to the region guy. Ooooooh. The Email tried to sound all nice and concerned, but there was clearly veiled disapproval about the way me and my wife are doing things. Surely our hard times must be our fault. Not believing, and more importantly, not tithing. I shudder to think about my private business being discussed like that.
This guy is old school corps, from back in the mid/late eighties, so nothing has changed.
If there are any spies here, they may have enough now to "out" me, but I don't care.
I know I am out for sure now anyway...
FWIW, any class I was involved in mid 70's to mid 80's did not operate like that. One time we had someone who refused to "S.I.T." We just said, "free will" and left her alone. There were plenty of times someone didn't speak in tongues. We always felt like we were the ones "blowing it" because VPW says in his classes, "No one gets missed, just no one!"
I'm sorry about the ABS thing you and your wife are going through but I'm glad you're not buying it. I'm also sorry to say that TWI isn't the only organization that uses guilt to get their money. Does it feel good to start gaining control of your life again?
Don't get me wrong. I'm all for financially supporting your church/fellowship/whatever if someone feels so inclined.
Ironic. The guy who ran the first class that I ever took was p!$$ed, because I already spoke in tongues.
I made the mistake of telling him that the Catholic Charismatics taught me about it. No "trophy" for twi at session 12 with me.
I can't stand to even see one of those horns again. One of the way's religious symbols. It's a shame, I probably won't be around to see the new "yearly theme" and accompanying boring, predictable posters. A real shame.
i have to tell you -- and i mean this -- i get more out of some church billboards around here. i drive past them and they have some really cool message
of course i'll get back to you when i can remember them
I'm sorry about the ABS thing you and your wife are going through but I'm glad you're not buying it. I'm also sorry to say that TWI isn't the only organization that uses guilt to get their money. Does it feel good to start gaining control of your life again?
Me and my wife figured it out at the same time, as well as realizing we didn't need to stay in "da ministry" to be God's children, and well favored. Funny, how it works out. We both had feelings things weren't right for a while. Reading the Word for myself, I saw that tithing belonged to the Law, and how the "literal translation according to usage" didn't sit right with my own research, and the word "pistis" is a verb. Among many other things.
Anyone remember the long, convoluted definition for agape? Here goes: "The love of God in the renewed mind in manifestation in the household". I love the "in the househould (Da Way)" part. Funny how nothing even remotely like that appears in any Greek lexicon I have ever seen.
It is like waking from a long dream, and seeing reality once again.
It is like waking from a long dream, and seeing reality once again.
In her book, Losing The Way, Kristen S. talks about that sensation of awakening. I highly recommend the book for any of you new arrivals. If you are not familiar with it, refer to THIS.
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Broken Arrow
I don't think the poster is questioning the importance of ant colonies. I think the poster is questioning the purpose of all of life. Is the purpose of our lives simply to generate other lives? Is the purpose of this life simply to keep things going, maintain the status quo, so that another generation can rise up and repeat the process?
It all seems so pointless because if you strip everything down to its most basic component, everything and everyone around us is in the process of dying and decaying. (Well, I feel better now! Let's join hands and sing, "Kum bye yah!")
Fyodor Dostoyevsky, in is novel Brothers Karamazov makes a point in saying, "If there is no God, everything is permissable. Who's to say murder is bad? We'll all end up dead anyway. May as well help reduce the surface population, to borrow a phrase from Ebenezer Scrooge. Who's to say anything is bad? We've had our Hitlers and Stalins in the past. These are extreme examples of men who had to have everything their own way. "Good" to them, was whatever was good for them. Cross them, and you were executed. Were they wrong? How about the holocaust, was it wrong? Who's to say?
I don't agree with the poster who said that without God we are nothing more than an ant farm but I see his point. Without God, we simply follow a code for reasons that we're not sure of and like ants we don't question it. I don't think an ant farm is a good metaphor, though, it's insulting to the ants.
I agree with what you say about TWI's method of dehumanizing but I don't see how you make the jump from comparing life without God to abuse from TWI.
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chockfull
Well this certainly is very like the leadership in TWI. How many people have you known that have crossed them? What was their fate? While they were not executed, effectively they were excommunicated, blackballed, fired, given the "bum's rush", burned, marked and avoided, placed on "probation", and the like. To the Board of Dummies of TWI, there is no God. They are not restrained to do the evil that they imagine in their little minds.
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excathedra
i am not sure about all this
the only thing that comes to mind is "go to the ant thou sluggard" ;)
sowwy
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brainfixed
well it was clear in my mind that the reason i did not include the name of the person that wrote what i quoted was so that nobody would think i was talking about what the person wrote or the person's point of view or anything like that, but something must have happened between my mind and what i wrote or something, so let me say it maybe a better way, ok? for the purpose of this discussion, i don't suppose to know or even want to know or even really care to know what the person that wrote what i quoted was thinking or trying to communicate because all that matters for the purpose of this discussion is what i thought about when i read what was written. now that being said, please recognize that i am isolating that itty bitty part of another discussion from its whole context for the purpose of not associating it with its context so that i can have a completely different discussion about what that itty bitty and very isolated part made me think about, and what it made me think about was the old way international mind set of "you can't offend a dead man" and the others i mentioned. if that isn't clear enough now, i don't know how to make it clearer. and it has nothing whatsoever to do with the discussion that i took the quote from in the first place.
excathedra, that's like the very second thing i thought about when i read that statement! how interesting that you and i picked up on that! :)
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Broken Arrow
I apologize if I was offensive, I certainly didn't intend to be. Apparently I'm unclear as to what exactly the subject is here, and I don't wish to derail this post further by causing you to explain yourself anymore. It really is o.k. Obviously you have other posters who seem to be on track with you so I'll just leave this post to you all.
I look forward to dialoging with you on another post sometime.
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waysider
The excuse I hated the most:
"You do want them to get blessed, now, don't you?"
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Nottawayfer
Would you be blessed to help scrub my toilets, wash my dishes, and baby-sit my bratty kids?
If I had a nickel for every time I was asked to be blessed to help......
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OldSkool
As if saying "no" wouldn't have been met with some scripture twisting confrontation!
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brainfixed
i thought i was the one being offensive by pulling that quote and i wanted to make sure that nobody thought i was trying to start in on somebody in a new discussion so i did an overexplanation thing. see how things can go sometimes? it is ok and i'm sorry i made you feel like you were offensive.
reading what others are saying there were so many excuses to abuse, weren't there? why i fell for them is one of the things that keeps me going back to therapy again and again because it just bugs the heck outta me because i have a thinking mind and i didn't fall for much in the way international, but to this day i am always wondering if i've given offense or caused someone else to "stumble in their believing". that's not my responsibility!!!!!!!!! why in the he!! did i ever fall for thinking that it is???? if i'm working with a child, then i know better than to tax their understanding, but when i'm working with adults, dang! they'd better be able to think for themselves! yes there are some exceptions, and it's not the ones most of us think are the exceptions because those most of us think are the exceptions would be pretty POed if we treated them with exceptions, but most adults in this world prefer to think for themselves, and those who don't really are not the type of people i want to have in my life because they tend to suck the soul right out of me. so when i find myself not thinking for myself i get really really upset and reach right down into the root of it and get it out of me but quick like and figure out why. and trending back to way international thinking is not thinking for myself.
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Tzaia
"You can't offend a dead man."
The most miserable and elitist excuse I've ever heard.
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Ham
there is no problem urinating on his grave then, is there..
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waysider
It's the fountain of "making water".
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Broken Arrow
Ooo! I'd managed to forget that one...yech!
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krys
Ham - - Waysider......I love the way you think
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Calavicci
I'm sure the excuse was, "it's to edify you, g*****it", but I hear a kid who was one of the few taking the last round of the foundational class didn't speak in tongues during the appointed session, and refused to in that setting. Apparently the f.c. who was running the class really laid into him about it, even went to his house one morning about it, with out so much as a phone call. It turns out he's not coming to a fellowship ever again. Way to go, no pun intended.
I just got an email from my f.c. about a discussion he had with the region coordinator. Evidently, he mentioned my wife and I have not been Abs'ing to the region guy. Ooooooh. The Email tried to sound all nice and concerned, but there was clearly veiled disapproval about the way me and my wife are doing things. Surely our hard times must be our fault. Not believing, and more importantly, not tithing. I shudder to think about my private business being discussed like that.
This guy is old school corps, from back in the mid/late eighties, so nothing has changed.
If there are any spies here, they may have enough now to "out" me, but I don't care.
I know I am out for sure now anyway...
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dmiller
Ironic. The guy who ran the first class that I ever took was p!$$ed, because I already spoke in tongues.
I made the mistake of telling him that the Catholic Charismatics taught me about it. No "trophy" for twi at session 12 with me.
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krys
And I think that is all they were looking for.....a "trophy". If they had any hint about your worth, even as we here at GSC interact with you....they would never have treated you badly.
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excathedra
hi calavicci and welcome
pass the horn a plenty and stand speak in tongues and interpret
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Calavicci
Thanks, glad to be here.
I can't stand to even see one of those horns again. One of the way's religious symbols. It's a shame, I probably won't be around to see the new "yearly theme" and accompanying boring, predictable posters. A real shame.
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Broken Arrow
FWIW, any class I was involved in mid 70's to mid 80's did not operate like that. One time we had someone who refused to "S.I.T." We just said, "free will" and left her alone. There were plenty of times someone didn't speak in tongues. We always felt like we were the ones "blowing it" because VPW says in his classes, "No one gets missed, just no one!"
I'm sorry about the ABS thing you and your wife are going through but I'm glad you're not buying it. I'm also sorry to say that TWI isn't the only organization that uses guilt to get their money. Does it feel good to start gaining control of your life again?
Don't get me wrong. I'm all for financially supporting your church/fellowship/whatever if someone feels so inclined.
Oh how ridiculous!
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excathedra
i have to tell you -- and i mean this -- i get more out of some church billboards around here. i drive past them and they have some really cool message
of course i'll get back to you when i can remember them
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Calavicci
Me and my wife figured it out at the same time, as well as realizing we didn't need to stay in "da ministry" to be God's children, and well favored. Funny, how it works out. We both had feelings things weren't right for a while. Reading the Word for myself, I saw that tithing belonged to the Law, and how the "literal translation according to usage" didn't sit right with my own research, and the word "pistis" is a verb. Among many other things.
Anyone remember the long, convoluted definition for agape? Here goes: "The love of God in the renewed mind in manifestation in the household". I love the "in the househould (Da Way)" part. Funny how nothing even remotely like that appears in any Greek lexicon I have ever seen.
It is like waking from a long dream, and seeing reality once again.
It is very liberating indeed...
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JavaJane
The "in the household" part if that definition got me started in questioning the accuracy if what was taught as well...
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waysider
In her book, Losing The Way, Kristen S. talks about that sensation of awakening. I highly recommend the book for any of you new arrivals. If you are not familiar with it, refer to THIS.
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