I'm just curious ... How much are you required to give to them?
I remember the case of the NC doctor who sued the Way for insisting he tithe a large amount of money from a windfall source. Can't remember how that case turned out. But do they even go after inheritances, lottery winnings, bonuses, gifts?
And what is their financial circumstances now, considering the recession?
Well, if you don't even give 10%, they're disgusted with you. lcm used to say God
"won't even spit in your direction" at 9%.
15% is expected-and that's of EVERYTHING. If you put into a retirement fund, when you
get the money, they want 15% of that, and won't accept that you gave 15% when INVESTING
the money so they actually are expecting 30%.
Furthermore, there's the concept of "plurality giving." If they can talk you into it,
you are to keep a small amount to live on, and send them all the rest.
Of course, that doesn't apply to Rosa-lie, who owns a BOAT and has all sorts of luxuries.
She's not expected to give back everything she doesn't need.
Even though staff pretty much supplies her every whim-cleaning, cooking, etc.
So you're saying that if you receive money from investments, inheritances, lottery winnings, bonuses, gifts, etc ., they expect you to give them at least 30% of the money? That is incredible!
In Christians Should Be Prosperous, one of the pamphlets included with the PFAL class, it was established that the tithe (10%) was the "absolute minimum" requirement. That's why the term "abundant sharing" (ABS) came into existence. We weren't supposed to merely fulfill the minimum requirement, we were supposed to give "abundantly", which had its own minimum standard of 15%. But, Hey! Why stop at the minimum? Why not give 20, 30, 50%? Heck. If you don't absolutely need it, why keep anything? Yep. VPW even envisioned a day when people would amend their wills to make The Way International sole heir to their estates. (He made this statement in public, just in case anyone thinks I just make this stuff up.)
So you're saying that if you receive money from investments, inheritances, lottery winnings, bonuses, gifts, etc ., they expect you to give them at least 30% of the money? That is incredible!
Actually, that was at least 30% from investments-
because you paid them 15% on your salary before you invested any money.
When you get back the money from the investment, that was money you already
"tithed" on, but they expect 15% AGAIN,
which would make 30%.
At least 15% on everything else- and if you're giving 15%, why aren't you giving MORE?
twi doesn't believe in "good enough" for its peons-there's always another hoop to
jump through, more distance to "move the goalposts" so you can never STOP
You will be able to find others using the search function.
Peeler lost the case but it is extremely revealing to see Rosalie lying under oath and read the testimony of how they harassed Mr. Peeler for percentages of his court settlements.
In the 90s when Craig started "requiring" that lowly followers fully share with their leadership on most everything, people started asking exactly what needs to be tithed on and what doesn't, and do you tithe on your net or your gross income. They said that your "increase" should be tithed on, so if you tithed on your gross income and then received a tax refund, you didn't need to tithe on that because you already had--it's not your increase but was actually yours to begin with. I can't think of any other examples of receiving money that would not be your increase: gifts, winnings (which you shouldn't enter into lotteries anyway because they're evil), inheritances, etc.
They had to clarify "plurality giving" a bit for the legalists, who were stressing that they needed to give every last little thing to the ministry. They said that you need to plan for yourself in terms of retirement, savings, hobbies, family, etc., before you give the rest--"that the ministry be not blamed." That was their biggest concern--that someone would actually do what they said and then be regretful of it and blame the ministry.
Craig beat the money/giving topic into the ground so hard that it isn't taught on too much anymore, at least not when I was there 2 years ago, but you know the fear and guilt tactics still abound.
Tithing is God's absolute minimum law of financial liberty, prosperity and abundance.
------------
Tithing is our minimum financial insurance, health and accident insurance.
------------
Tithing is a divinely-assured income tax, paid freely in offerings with love.
------------
When we allow anyone or anything, such as our government, to take from our incomes before we have set aside at least one-tenth for the Lord's work, we are simply defeating ourselves and indicating by our actions that someone or something is ahead of God in our material life.
(This last paragraph answers the question of whether the tithe (The Way version) is based on gross or net.)
Page 36 states that the tithe is one-tenth of your net income, however, the example depicts it as being based on the gross.
"Do you know what the tithe is? It is one-tenth of your net income. If you earned a dollar, you have ten cents for the Lord. If you get $10.00, you have $1.00, if you have $100.00, it is $10.00."
Yes, TWI leadership collects information about how much followers give, and reviews and discusses it in leadership meetings. They will make comments and decisions regarding perceived "commitment" levels based upon this information.
In reality, with this type of behavior, they deserve to receive NOTHING. It's none of their f-ing business, what people decide to give as a freewill offering out of the love in their heart for God, and abusing that by playing little gods judging people as to amounts I'm certain makes God sick to His stomach. And yes, that's a figure of speech.
A provable history of systematic financial giving was used as a requirement for acceptance into the Advanced Class.
Yes, quite true. To be "accepted" to take the advanced class, they have to faithfully attend fellowship, faithfully tithe, at the absolute minimum--emphasized on the application, be debt-free, subscribe to the Way Mag and to the STS tapes.
Great emphasis on obeying the letter of the law, huh? Where's the emphasis on heart and love? Well, I guess you can't expect them to have actually helped other people yet because they haven't taught them how to operate those "giving" manifestations yet--those are handled in the Advanced Class. Only problem is, they still aren't taught how to "operate" those manifestations--only how to live so legalistically that God's love is taken right out of the picture anyway.
Yes, quite true. To be "accepted" to take the advanced class, they have to faithfully attend fellowship, faithfully tithe, at the absolute minimum--emphasized on the application, be debt-free, subscribe to the Way Mag and to the STS tapes.
And that is one if the biggest reason, IMO, they can't get people to take that POS of a class. Maybe they can throw a few more "requisites" on that stupid class so less people will take it.
Back in my early twenties I was confronted by my twig coordinator on the amount of my tithing check. She was convinced that I wasn't giving at least ten percent of my income. At the time I was working as a salesperson at a store in the mall and making just above minimum wage. I actually showed her my check stub so that she would believe me. She then told me she didn't know how I could live on that amount and that I needed to find another job so that i could increase my giving so God could bless me more.
I used to condemn myself because by giving ten percent I was ALREADY living on a need basis and couldn't move on to ABS level, much less plurality giving!!
Back in my early twenties I was confronted by my twig coordinator on the amount of my tithing check. She was convinced that I wasn't giving at least ten percent of my income. At the time I was working as a salesperson at a store in the mall and making just above minimum wage. I actually showed her my check stub so that she would believe me. She then told me she didn't know how I could live on that amount and that I needed to find another job so that i could increase my giving so God could bless me more.
I used to condemn myself because by giving ten percent I was ALREADY living on a need basis and couldn't move on to ABS level, much less plurality giving!!
I remember the SNS which was canceled because LCM was in a rage. That's when he did the video on plurality giving. Knowing most of his lunch time sharings were based on things that recently ticked him off, he must have been p1$$ed off about the lack of abundant sharing.
BTW: any spiritual partnership of Way Corps could not be counted as abundant sharing. I remember our whole Branch had to listen to the tape and everyone had to share their thoughts on it. I was flabbergasted since I was already sharing 15% of my income, and now I had to share everything I didn't need? I didn't dare share my real feelings, yet I was disgusted with myself for not coming to terms with the MOG's idea.
In Christians Should Be Prosperous, one of the pamphlets included with the PFAL class, it was established that the tithe (10%) was the "absolute minimum" requirement. That's why the term "abundant sharing" (ABS) came into existence. We weren't supposed to merely fulfill the minimum requirement, we were supposed to give "abundantly", which had its own minimum standard of 15%. But, Hey! Why stop at the minimum? Why not give 20, 30, 50%? Heck. If you don't absolutely need it, why keep anything? Yep. VPW even envisioned a day when people would amend their wills to make The Way International sole heir to their estates. (He made this statement in public, just in case anyone thinks I just make this stuff up.)
I saw it advertised in the Way Mag.
Actually, that was at least 30% from investments-
because you paid them 15% on your salary before you invested any money.
When you get back the money from the investment, that was money you already
"tithed" on, but they expect 15% AGAIN,
which would make 30%.
At least 15% on everything else- and if you're giving 15%, why aren't you giving MORE?
twi doesn't believe in "good enough" for its peons-there's always another hoop to
jump through, more distance to "move the goalposts" so you can never STOP
giving them time and money.
The government doesn't even do that. Are you familiar with a Roth IRA?
So does the Way give the money it receives from its members to outside charities? I know churches and synagogues give money to charities or set up programs to help the less fortunate in this world. Does the Way?
So does the Way give the money it receives from its members to outside charities? I know churches and synagogues give money to charities or set up programs to help the less fortunate in this world. Does the Way?
As far as I know they give the donations to no one, but horde it away. Keep in mind that what they do with the donations is highly confidential. Don't most groups keep that info public?
What we know seems to come from the state of Arizona where they file reports. I imagine the reports are vague and may have significant details left out but they at least offer a snap shot.
Scroll down to the bottom of the page. 2008 had a detailed report while 2009 did not. It at least gives insight into a very secretive aspect of the way international. One would think transparency would be expected, but in the way international confidentiality rules the day and most followers accept it as necessary.
So does the Way give the money it receives from its members to outside charities? I know churches and synagogues give money to charities or set up programs to help the less fortunate in this world. Does the Way?
They announced, post-9/11, that they gave a donation.
Of course, that was major news.
Matthew 6:1
Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
I was in from 1994 till 2000 and I continually heard the sermon that you were expected to tithe no less than 10%. However, they also preached constantly that in the Book of Acts the people gave evverything above their need, which basically meant give them all your money after your bills were paid. I remember many sermons about Acts being "plurality giving." I also remember LCM saying - word for word "God won't even spit in your direction if you do not tithe at least 10%." Then they started preaching the whole no debt thing. They didn't even want you to have car or mortgage payments. At first I thought it made sense and from certain aspects, it does. But, being that it was at the same time they were really harping on the tithe & "abundant sharing" their motive was to have you completely debt free so you could literally give most of your money to them.
I too saw it in the Way rag an ad to leave money to the Way. It said "Remember The Way in Your Will". It kind of creeped me out. (even in my Way Brain)
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WordWolf
Well, if you don't even give 10%, they're disgusted with you. lcm used to say God
"won't even spit in your direction" at 9%.
15% is expected-and that's of EVERYTHING. If you put into a retirement fund, when you
get the money, they want 15% of that, and won't accept that you gave 15% when INVESTING
the money so they actually are expecting 30%.
Furthermore, there's the concept of "plurality giving." If they can talk you into it,
you are to keep a small amount to live on, and send them all the rest.
Of course, that doesn't apply to Rosa-lie, who owns a BOAT and has all sorts of luxuries.
She's not expected to give back everything she doesn't need.
Even though staff pretty much supplies her every whim-cleaning, cooking, etc.
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citygirl99
So you're saying that if you receive money from investments, inheritances, lottery winnings, bonuses, gifts, etc ., they expect you to give them at least 30% of the money? That is incredible!
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waysider
In Christians Should Be Prosperous, one of the pamphlets included with the PFAL class, it was established that the tithe (10%) was the "absolute minimum" requirement. That's why the term "abundant sharing" (ABS) came into existence. We weren't supposed to merely fulfill the minimum requirement, we were supposed to give "abundantly", which had its own minimum standard of 15%. But, Hey! Why stop at the minimum? Why not give 20, 30, 50%? Heck. If you don't absolutely need it, why keep anything? Yep. VPW even envisioned a day when people would amend their wills to make The Way International sole heir to their estates. (He made this statement in public, just in case anyone thinks I just make this stuff up.)
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WordWolf
Actually, that was at least 30% from investments-
because you paid them 15% on your salary before you invested any money.
When you get back the money from the investment, that was money you already
"tithed" on, but they expect 15% AGAIN,
which would make 30%.
At least 15% on everything else- and if you're giving 15%, why aren't you giving MORE?
twi doesn't believe in "good enough" for its peons-there's always another hoop to
jump through, more distance to "move the goalposts" so you can never STOP
giving them time and money.
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OldSkool
Threads on the Peeler case
You will be able to find others using the search function.
Peeler lost the case but it is extremely revealing to see Rosalie lying under oath and read the testimony of how they harassed Mr. Peeler for percentages of his court settlements.
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What About It
In the 90s when Craig started "requiring" that lowly followers fully share with their leadership on most everything, people started asking exactly what needs to be tithed on and what doesn't, and do you tithe on your net or your gross income. They said that your "increase" should be tithed on, so if you tithed on your gross income and then received a tax refund, you didn't need to tithe on that because you already had--it's not your increase but was actually yours to begin with. I can't think of any other examples of receiving money that would not be your increase: gifts, winnings (which you shouldn't enter into lotteries anyway because they're evil), inheritances, etc.
They had to clarify "plurality giving" a bit for the legalists, who were stressing that they needed to give every last little thing to the ministry. They said that you need to plan for yourself in terms of retirement, savings, hobbies, family, etc., before you give the rest--"that the ministry be not blamed." That was their biggest concern--that someone would actually do what they said and then be regretful of it and blame the ministry.
Craig beat the money/giving topic into the ground so hard that it isn't taught on too much anymore, at least not when I was there 2 years ago, but you know the fear and guilt tactics still abound.
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waysider
From Christians Should Be Prosperous:
(no copyright displayed/approximate date: 1971 )
Pgs. 10 &11
Tithing is God's absolute minimum law of financial liberty, prosperity and abundance.
------------
Tithing is our minimum financial insurance, health and accident insurance.
------------
Tithing is a divinely-assured income tax, paid freely in offerings with love.
------------
When we allow anyone or anything, such as our government, to take from our incomes before we have set aside at least one-tenth for the Lord's work, we are simply defeating ourselves and indicating by our actions that someone or something is ahead of God in our material life.
(This last paragraph answers the question of whether the tithe (The Way version) is based on gross or net.)
Page 36 states that the tithe is one-tenth of your net income, however, the example depicts it as being based on the gross.
"Do you know what the tithe is? It is one-tenth of your net income. If you earned a dollar, you have ten cents for the Lord. If you get $10.00, you have $1.00, if you have $100.00, it is $10.00."
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chockfull
Yes, TWI leadership collects information about how much followers give, and reviews and discusses it in leadership meetings. They will make comments and decisions regarding perceived "commitment" levels based upon this information.
In reality, with this type of behavior, they deserve to receive NOTHING. It's none of their f-ing business, what people decide to give as a freewill offering out of the love in their heart for God, and abusing that by playing little gods judging people as to amounts I'm certain makes God sick to His stomach. And yes, that's a figure of speech.
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waysider
A provable history of systematic financial giving was used as a requirement for acceptance into the Advanced Class.
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What About It
Yes, quite true. To be "accepted" to take the advanced class, they have to faithfully attend fellowship, faithfully tithe, at the absolute minimum--emphasized on the application, be debt-free, subscribe to the Way Mag and to the STS tapes.
Great emphasis on obeying the letter of the law, huh? Where's the emphasis on heart and love? Well, I guess you can't expect them to have actually helped other people yet because they haven't taught them how to operate those "giving" manifestations yet--those are handled in the Advanced Class. Only problem is, they still aren't taught how to "operate" those manifestations--only how to live so legalistically that God's love is taken right out of the picture anyway.
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OldSkool
And that is one if the biggest reason, IMO, they can't get people to take that POS of a class. Maybe they can throw a few more "requisites" on that stupid class so less people will take it.
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JavaJane
Back in my early twenties I was confronted by my twig coordinator on the amount of my tithing check. She was convinced that I wasn't giving at least ten percent of my income. At the time I was working as a salesperson at a store in the mall and making just above minimum wage. I actually showed her my check stub so that she would believe me. She then told me she didn't know how I could live on that amount and that I needed to find another job so that i could increase my giving so God could bless me more.
I used to condemn myself because by giving ten percent I was ALREADY living on a need basis and couldn't move on to ABS level, much less plurality giving!!
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OldSkool
Where was your believing?
:biglaugh: 
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Nottawayfer
I remember the SNS which was canceled because LCM was in a rage. That's when he did the video on plurality giving. Knowing most of his lunch time sharings were based on things that recently ticked him off, he must have been p1$$ed off about the lack of abundant sharing.
BTW: any spiritual partnership of Way Corps could not be counted as abundant sharing. I remember our whole Branch had to listen to the tape and everyone had to share their thoughts on it. I was flabbergasted since I was already sharing 15% of my income, and now I had to share everything I didn't need? I didn't dare share my real feelings, yet I was disgusted with myself for not coming to terms with the MOG's idea.
I was a MAJOR Koolaid drinker.
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Broken Arrow
I saw it advertised in the Way Mag.
The government doesn't even do that. Are you familiar with a Roth IRA?
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citygirl99
So does the Way give the money it receives from its members to outside charities? I know churches and synagogues give money to charities or set up programs to help the less fortunate in this world. Does the Way?
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OldSkool
As far as I know they give the donations to no one, but horde it away. Keep in mind that what they do with the donations is highly confidential. Don't most groups keep that info public?
What we know seems to come from the state of Arizona where they file reports. I imagine the reports are vague and may have significant details left out but they at least offer a snap shot.
http://starpas.azcc.gov/scripts/cgiip.exe/WService=wsbroker1/names-detail.p?name-id=F00256060&type=CORPORATION
Scroll down to the bottom of the page. 2008 had a detailed report while 2009 did not. It at least gives insight into a very secretive aspect of the way international. One would think transparency would be expected, but in the way international confidentiality rules the day and most followers accept it as necessary.
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WordWolf
They announced, post-9/11, that they gave a donation.
Of course, that was major news.
Matthew 6:1
Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
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Vyctorya911
I was in from 1994 till 2000 and I continually heard the sermon that you were expected to tithe no less than 10%. However, they also preached constantly that in the Book of Acts the people gave evverything above their need, which basically meant give them all your money after your bills were paid. I remember many sermons about Acts being "plurality giving." I also remember LCM saying - word for word "God won't even spit in your direction if you do not tithe at least 10%." Then they started preaching the whole no debt thing. They didn't even want you to have car or mortgage payments. At first I thought it made sense and from certain aspects, it does. But, being that it was at the same time they were really harping on the tithe & "abundant sharing" their motive was to have you completely debt free so you could literally give most of your money to them.
Vyctorya
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outandabout
I too saw it in the Way rag an ad to leave money to the Way. It said "Remember The Way in Your Will". It kind of creeped me out. (even in my Way Brain)
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