The books are not printed at TWI. They are printed by a vendor hired by TWI. I worked in Printing Services. The Way Rag and their boring anniversary posters are printed by a print shop in Lima, Ohio. At least that's the way it was when I worked there in the late 90s, early 2000s.
BTW: Teachmevp. "Book's" is not the plural of books. It's not a possessive or a contraction.
I think the Way Mag is printed in Dayton now. Here's a funny thing: before the big Y2K lawsuit, the Way Mag editor (a married man) and one of his staffers (who were all women) used to get a motel room and stay overnight for the press checks, when they'd have to go to the printer's shop every few hours to check the print runs. After the Y2K lawsuit, no, no, no. The editor would borrow a man from another department so that a woman and a man wouldn't be together in a hotel room overnight.
As far as the books, the book's, and the bookses' books', they're all done at printers in the area. None are actually printed at hq.
As of around 1980, the books were printed by outside contractors. There was a print shop in the northwest corner of the OSC building. They printed the "sensitive" material such as sylabuses and class handouts. They also collated and shrink wrapped the book packages for the various classes.
I was there when they were working on the Prevailing Word edition of Studies in Abundant Living. That project took years to finish. I'm almost sure they had to update doctrine based on new light. I took the manuscripts from the printer up to Way Publications, and there were always more changes, and I never looked at what was being changed. I wished I would have.
I remember going to a fellowship study night on Are the Dead Alive Now?. Some of us had old versions of the book, and other had a newer version which had updated doctrine in it. I remember it being very confusing because nobody knew it had been updated. There was a huge discussion, and then the coordinator just closed the meeting because it was causing too much havoc. They never had those meetings again. I wish I could remember the change in that book too.
I was there when they were working on the Prevailing Word edition of Studies in Abundant Living. That project took years to finish. I'm almost sure they had to update doctrine based on new light. I took the manuscripts from the printer up to Way Publications, and there were always more changes, and I never looked at what was being changed. I wished I would have.
Years to finish--yes, indeed. Rosie actually believes slower is better. She's in no hurry to get anything out. She said her goal as president is to get the new Way of Abundance and Power series out--Foundation, intermediate, and advanced. Yet she's been there for 10 years and hasn't been able to put out 3 classes yet. She's the picture of inefficiency. It was the same for these books. She lauds the two publications departments and lets them take as much time as they need (unless she needs something fast, then amazingly they can turn it around for her).
Update doctrine--no, they did not do that in the second editions of these books. Their take on it was that these were the great "Dr." Wierwille's books, and they shouldn't change any doctrine to line up with new teaching. The changes would have been petty things, maybe a word or two or punctuation, but not doctrine. (They talked a lot about "printed perfection"--that's actually what they think they do in the publications departments--they're the guardians of printed perfection! RUN!) So why did these books take so long to finish? Inefficiency, not "new light."
I understand the publications departments (way publications and presidents publications) don't use computers? They still edit with pencil and paper? Say it ain't so!
I understand the publications departments (way publications and presidents publications) don't use computers? They still edit with pencil and paper? Say it ain't so!
Oh yes, it's so! Colored pencils: red, green, and purple for the 1st three editors; then blue; after that, when their outdated system hasn't been efficient enough, they move on to brown and orange, maybe light blue or yellow, but these are a bit hard to read. Those manuscripts are less intelligible than the ugliest roadmaps you've ever seen. Computers just do things too fast, you know. Their perfect publications wouldn't be as accurate if they pumped them out faster and at much lower cost by using computers and eliminating an entire department (word processing). That's your abundant sharing at work, folks. All in outdated, inefficient processes.
Oh yes, it's so! Colored pencils: red, green, and purple for the 1st three editors; then blue; after that, when their outdated system hasn't been efficient enough, they move on to brown and orange, maybe light blue or yellow, but these are a bit hard to read. Those manuscripts are less intelligible than the ugliest roadmaps you've ever seen. Computers just do things too fast, you know. Their perfect publications wouldn't be as accurate if they pumped them out faster and at much lower cost by using computers and eliminating an entire department (word processing). That's your abundant sharing at work, folks. All in outdated, inefficient processes.
That just goes to show how ignorant the computer hating Rozilla really is when it comes to efficiency. It's the de facto practice to use computers and a word processing program (like M$ Word) that has tracked changes features. I cannot believe they use pencils to handle their publications. Doesn't Rosalie use some logic about some special process happening when the hand touches the pencil to the paper?
Doesn't Rosalie use some logic about some special process happening when the hand touches the pencil to the paper?
OldSkool, I think you mean "illogic," but to answer your question, yes, she does. When the publications department coordinators (which also included the Way Mag dept.) were asked by Rosie to teach the Solution Seminar (which was a short taped class produced to teach the Way Corpse how to write a magazine article, and it morphed into a syllabus that they give to STS teachers as well), they taught to write your article with pen/pencil and paper. Why? Very vague, but it just does something, there's just something more there in it than if you're using a computer. (And the Pres. Pub. dept. coord (P0lly R0tund@) actually went online to find studies to back that up! I'd like to see her use pencil and paper to find studies to back that up. Too bad she didn't look for studies that show the savings in time and money by writing/editing on electronic files rather than hard copies. That could have actually benefited them.)
And their dishonest, one-way, twisted feedback system fed right into this also: We were asked to report on the seminar after we wrote our way mag articles. The question was worded just like this: "What did you like about writing with pen/pencil and paper?" It was all so they could give Rosie just the good, not the bad and the ugly. Not "what didn't you like." I wrote that I actually enjoyed it for the first paragraph, but then after that I just couldn't take it anymore and typed the rest of it on the computer. I emphasized that I found that much easier, faster, and more efficient for me, and that the pen and paper, which got me going in the initial writing process, actually held me back once I got going. But you know, they don't want to hear that because it doesn't agree with the headmistress.
Oh yes, it's so! Colored pencils: red, green, and purple for the 1st three editors; then blue; after that, when their outdated system hasn't been efficient enough, they move on to brown and orange, maybe light blue or yellow, but these are a bit hard to read. Those manuscripts are less intelligible than the ugliest roadmaps you've ever seen. Computers just do things too fast, you know. Their perfect publications wouldn't be as accurate if they pumped them out faster and at much lower cost by using computers and eliminating an entire department (word processing). That's your abundant sharing at work, folks. All in outdated, inefficient processes.
Hahahahaha.
That's what you get when you have a schoolteacher that's the CEO.
At one time, it WAS the farm. When they lost all that staff with everyone else
in 1989 (and thereabouts), that wasn't an option anymore.
There's some posters who've posted about working on the books,
or working with the people who worked on them, around here somewhere.
In 1984-1986 when I worked in the Research Dept. upstairs in the OSC, the Print Shop was downstairs right below us. In it was a huge printing press made in Germany. The guy who ran it was a 3rd Corps grad, ordained, and a friend of my ex-husband's. As far as I recall, as someone mentions in this thread, the "sensitive materials" like class syllabi etc. were printed there but I also think the Way Mag was, too, and possibly the books, although I don't think the hardcovers were put on the manuscripts at HQ...they may have been contracted out. Maybe someone else here has those details.
While I was involved during the 1970s and until 1987 when I left HQ, TWI printed materials and books under the name: The American Christian Press, with the address of HQ in New Knoxville.
An interesting topic and lest we forget there was a time when knowledge began it's journey through time verbally, passed down generation to generation.
The author of that article covers some of the ideas that I'd bet were part of RR's Editor's documentation. Some of the things like the engagement of the person to the media is interesting but me, I don't think the basic idea holds up across the board but clearly there is a process that we go through when we "write" so it's worthwhile to explore and understand it.
If a person thinks a certan way and acts on their preferences, then for them there are measurable differences that matter and the effect is tangible. For them there are preferences that would amount to a "right" and a "wrong" way to write, or perhaps a "preferred" and "better" way in relation to how they believe their product is affected.
This is something I've thought a lot about and studied a little over the years so I won't bore the topic track to tears - it's not surprising at all that there'd be a bias towards pen/pencil and paper by someone like RR. Another topic that's probably even more intersting in regards to RR and The Way would be "records" and the ethical retention of information, history and archiving. But that's another topic.
Good to remember though - pen and paper and the writing process is a learned skill, where expression is organized and funneled using the tools, hmmm, at hand. The brain, the thoughts, the emotions are all there already though.
Give a child some crayons and paper and what happens? :)
I usually put little marks on the paper as part of the process. Especially with an important or critical work.. its a process. "Write up" a draft, on the computer, make SEVERAL revisions before printing, make at least one print of the "close to the end" product, and mark it up with a pen. I can see the point here though.. there is a difference between thoughtful use of technology, and mindless use of technology.. and apparently rosie can't see the difference. It would seem though to me, that if "da best there is" on staff is da "best".. wouldn't they be trained in THOUGHTFUL use of technology?
Or are all the best they can find can't compose to begin with, and end up running something that looks like a chimpanzee's attempt at a Steinbeck novel through a spell checker?
I agree that pen and paper can be a valid preference to a writer in the creative process. But we are talking about copy editors and proof readers here. What value does it serve a copy editor to touch paper with colored pencils?
It doesn't make "lazy" writers as many contend. The same people who couldn't spell before can't because they don't use the dictionary and of course the real problem being more basic - how does anyone know a word is missspeld if they write what they think is correct to begin with?
Other eyes are required, "editors", proofers. Spell 'em checkers. Same deal all the way around.
Questions questions questions. Just remember - there are no stupid questions, only stupid people.
So am I getting it right - that proofers/editors aren't using something like MS Word and the tracking edit/changes and comments feature? They're making hard copy and scratching on it?
Hey, wuddever works. It's a minor point in the bigger picture of issues like who vacuums The Way Woods.
I usually put little marks on the paper as part of the process. Especially with an important or critical work.. its a process. "Write up" a draft, on the computer, make SEVERAL revisions before printing, make at least one print of the "close to the end" product, and mark it up with a pen.
That's pretty much what I do when I write something.
The process for editing someone else's writing is similar. I usually correct clearcut errors electronically, and then when I think I've ferreted out most of those little rascals, I print out the document and read it again on paper. It's amazing what you can miss when staring at a computer screen.
If I'm editing something that's extremely long, complex, and in extremely bad shape, I will clean up all the glaring errors--like misspellings, wrong format, bad punctuation, etc.--electonically, then print the whole mess out so that I can look over the organization, syntax, transitions, etc., more deliberately, mark the corrections, and then input and proof them.
As for where the books and Way Magazine were printed, when I was in Way Pub/Way Mag (from 1982-86), neither the mag nor the books were printed at HQ. They didn't have the right kind of press. What they're doing now I couldn't tell you. Doesn't sound like they're producing any books these days anyway.
In the 1980s, the books were printed by a big printer in Kingsport, TN. I don't remember where the mag was printed at that time.
I used to teach writing and humane letters to 7th-graders. I required that the drafts of the papers they turned in be hand-written, in cursive script, with black ink. I knew that this would be a one-school-year experience for them. They had used a hand written print script in grade school, and would use computers to print out papers beyond my class, but I wanted them to have an experiential knowledge of what writing has been for so many generations. I remember clearly seeing copies of the letters my great grandfathers wrote home from the Civil War.
My students also had to bring personal copies of dictionaries to class with them, and we had a lot of fun answering questions by looking things up in the dictionary.
When I started writing for publication, all those years ago, I had a manual, portable typewriter. I used it till there were no more shops to keep it in repair. Then I switched to a Brother word-processor with a daisy wheel printer. That's what I started writing Dispensing with Darby on. I used it till one of the keys on the daisy wheel broke, and I found out that I could not get daisy wheels anymore. So I got a Brother word-processor with an inkjet and used it till the "1!" key stopped working. That's what I used to finish Dispensing with Darby. When I tried to get a new word-processor, I found out that THEY were now obsolete, and I had to get a computer. I eventually got a Dell pre-loaded with MS Works, but I had to get Word also, since so many people require that material be submitted in Word.
I find composition to be much easier on a computer than it was by hand or on a typewriter. Some of my students would compose their papers on their computers, and then copy them out in longhand to turn in. That was fine by me, and they knew it. My class was an instructional situation, but I can no longer picture writing by hand or typewriter in a commercial or professional application. Composing and editing on a computer are much, much closer to the brain's "speed of thought."
I learned a new adjective watching Judge Jennine Pirro today, "redonkulous." By using obsolete methods of processing written materials, The Way International is just being redonkulous!
Love,
Steve
PS - When I told my 7th-graders the writing requirements, I told them they had to use ball-point pens. That was a matter of old habit. My teachers had always stipulated ball-points because fountain pens could be too messy. I was astonished when my students asked me what a ball-point pen was, because each and every one of them was holding a ball-point. Then I realized, none of them had ever used, or possibly even seen, a fountain pen. There had never been any occassion in their brief lives when they had needed to recognize that a ball-point pen is a ball-point pen!
And The Way International doesn't realize they are hopelessly outmoded!
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Bolshevik
I thought the tapes were grown there.
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teachmevp
I think that crop of Beta tapes, didn't make.
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Nottawayfer
The books are not printed at TWI. They are printed by a vendor hired by TWI. I worked in Printing Services. The Way Rag and their boring anniversary posters are printed by a print shop in Lima, Ohio. At least that's the way it was when I worked there in the late 90s, early 2000s.
BTW: Teachmevp. "Book's" is not the plural of books. It's not a possessive or a contraction.
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teachmevp
I always wonder where they made those books, I heard on the farm one time, thanks for teaching me about that.
I got stoned and missed that english class that day, thanks for the schooling.
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What About It
I think the Way Mag is printed in Dayton now. Here's a funny thing: before the big Y2K lawsuit, the Way Mag editor (a married man) and one of his staffers (who were all women) used to get a motel room and stay overnight for the press checks, when they'd have to go to the printer's shop every few hours to check the print runs. After the Y2K lawsuit, no, no, no. The editor would borrow a man from another department so that a woman and a man wouldn't be together in a hotel room overnight.
As far as the books, the book's, and the bookses' books', they're all done at printers in the area. None are actually printed at hq.
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WordWolf
At one time, it WAS the farm. When they lost all that staff with everyone else
in 1989 (and thereabouts), that wasn't an option anymore.
There's some posters who've posted about working on the books,
or working with the people who worked on them, around here somewhere.
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Jim
As of around 1980, the books were printed by outside contractors. There was a print shop in the northwest corner of the OSC building. They printed the "sensitive" material such as sylabuses and class handouts. They also collated and shrink wrapped the book packages for the various classes.
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Nottawayfer
I was there when they were working on the Prevailing Word edition of Studies in Abundant Living. That project took years to finish. I'm almost sure they had to update doctrine based on new light.
I took the manuscripts from the printer up to Way Publications, and there were always more changes, and I never looked at what was being changed. I wished I would have.
I remember going to a fellowship study night on Are the Dead Alive Now?. Some of us had old versions of the book, and other had a newer version which had updated doctrine in it. I remember it being very confusing because nobody knew it had been updated. There was a huge discussion, and then the coordinator just closed the meeting because it was causing too much havoc. They never had those meetings again. I wish I could remember the change in that book too.
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What About It
Years to finish--yes, indeed. Rosie actually believes slower is better. She's in no hurry to get anything out. She said her goal as president is to get the new Way of Abundance and Power series out--Foundation, intermediate, and advanced. Yet she's been there for 10 years and hasn't been able to put out 3 classes yet. She's the picture of inefficiency. It was the same for these books. She lauds the two publications departments and lets them take as much time as they need (unless she needs something fast, then amazingly they can turn it around for her).
Update doctrine--no, they did not do that in the second editions of these books. Their take on it was that these were the great "Dr." Wierwille's books, and they shouldn't change any doctrine to line up with new teaching. The changes would have been petty things, maybe a word or two or punctuation, but not doctrine. (They talked a lot about "printed perfection"--that's actually what they think they do in the publications departments--they're the guardians of printed perfection! RUN!) So why did these books take so long to finish? Inefficiency, not "new light."
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OldSkool
I understand the publications departments (way publications and presidents publications) don't use computers? They still edit with pencil and paper? Say it ain't so!
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What About It
Oh yes, it's so! Colored pencils: red, green, and purple for the 1st three editors; then blue; after that, when their outdated system hasn't been efficient enough, they move on to brown and orange, maybe light blue or yellow, but these are a bit hard to read. Those manuscripts are less intelligible than the ugliest roadmaps you've ever seen. Computers just do things too fast, you know. Their perfect publications wouldn't be as accurate if they pumped them out faster and at much lower cost by using computers and eliminating an entire department (word processing). That's your abundant sharing at work, folks. All in outdated, inefficient processes.
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OldSkool
That just goes to show how ignorant the computer hating Rozilla really is when it comes to efficiency. It's the de facto practice to use computers and a word processing program (like M$ Word) that has tracked changes features. I cannot believe they use pencils to handle their publications. Doesn't Rosalie use some logic about some special process happening when the hand touches the pencil to the paper?
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What About It
OldSkool, I think you mean "illogic," but to answer your question, yes, she does. When the publications department coordinators (which also included the Way Mag dept.) were asked by Rosie to teach the Solution Seminar (which was a short taped class produced to teach the Way Corpse how to write a magazine article, and it morphed into a syllabus that they give to STS teachers as well), they taught to write your article with pen/pencil and paper. Why? Very vague, but it just does something, there's just something more there in it than if you're using a computer. (And the Pres. Pub. dept. coord (P0lly R0tund@) actually went online to find studies to back that up! I'd like to see her use pencil and paper to find studies to back that up. Too bad she didn't look for studies that show the savings in time and money by writing/editing on electronic files rather than hard copies. That could have actually benefited them.)
And their dishonest, one-way, twisted feedback system fed right into this also: We were asked to report on the seminar after we wrote our way mag articles. The question was worded just like this: "What did you like about writing with pen/pencil and paper?" It was all so they could give Rosie just the good, not the bad and the ugly. Not "what didn't you like." I wrote that I actually enjoyed it for the first paragraph, but then after that I just couldn't take it anymore and typed the rest of it on the computer. I emphasized that I found that much easier, faster, and more efficient for me, and that the pen and paper, which got me going in the initial writing process, actually held me back once I got going. But you know, they don't want to hear that because it doesn't agree with the headmistress.
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chockfull
Hahahahaha.
That's what you get when you have a schoolteacher that's the CEO.
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OldSkool
But it all sounds so nostalgic..
:biglaugh: 
:biglaugh: 
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penworks
In 1984-1986 when I worked in the Research Dept. upstairs in the OSC, the Print Shop was downstairs right below us. In it was a huge printing press made in Germany. The guy who ran it was a 3rd Corps grad, ordained, and a friend of my ex-husband's. As far as I recall, as someone mentions in this thread, the "sensitive materials" like class syllabi etc. were printed there but I also think the Way Mag was, too, and possibly the books, although I don't think the hardcovers were put on the manuscripts at HQ...they may have been contracted out. Maybe someone else here has those details.
While I was involved during the 1970s and until 1987 when I left HQ, TWI printed materials and books under the name: The American Christian Press, with the address of HQ in New Knoxville.
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socks
Hand versus keyboard - a thoughtful article on the topic.
An interesting topic and lest we forget there was a time when knowledge began it's journey through time verbally, passed down generation to generation.
The author of that article covers some of the ideas that I'd bet were part of RR's Editor's documentation. Some of the things like the engagement of the person to the media is interesting but me, I don't think the basic idea holds up across the board but clearly there is a process that we go through when we "write" so it's worthwhile to explore and understand it.
If a person thinks a certan way and acts on their preferences, then for them there are measurable differences that matter and the effect is tangible. For them there are preferences that would amount to a "right" and a "wrong" way to write, or perhaps a "preferred" and "better" way in relation to how they believe their product is affected.
This is something I've thought a lot about and studied a little over the years so I won't bore the topic track to tears - it's not surprising at all that there'd be a bias towards pen/pencil and paper by someone like RR. Another topic that's probably even more intersting in regards to RR and The Way would be "records" and the ethical retention of information, history and archiving. But that's another topic.
Good to remember though - pen and paper and the writing process is a learned skill, where expression is organized and funneled using the tools, hmmm, at hand. The brain, the thoughts, the emotions are all there already though.
Give a child some crayons and paper and what happens? :)
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Ham
I usually put little marks on the paper as part of the process. Especially with an important or critical work.. its a process. "Write up" a draft, on the computer, make SEVERAL revisions before printing, make at least one print of the "close to the end" product, and mark it up with a pen. I can see the point here though.. there is a difference between thoughtful use of technology, and mindless use of technology.. and apparently rosie can't see the difference. It would seem though to me, that if "da best there is" on staff is da "best".. wouldn't they be trained in THOUGHTFUL use of technology?
Or are all the best they can find can't compose to begin with, and end up running something that looks like a chimpanzee's attempt at a Steinbeck novel through a spell checker?
that WOULD explain a lot of loy's nonsense..
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OldSkool
I agree that pen and paper can be a valid preference to a writer in the creative process. But we are talking about copy editors and proof readers here. What value does it serve a copy editor to touch paper with colored pencils?
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socks
Spell check is a great point.
It doesn't make "lazy" writers as many contend. The same people who couldn't spell before can't because they don't use the dictionary and of course the real problem being more basic - how does anyone know a word is missspeld if they write what they think is correct to begin with?
Other eyes are required, "editors", proofers. Spell 'em checkers. Same deal all the way around.
Questions questions questions. Just remember - there are no stupid questions, only stupid people.
(that's a joke. ..... .
..... or is it????) :unsure:
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chockfull
If they have elementary school age children they can buy them in bulk for work and school?
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socks
So am I getting it right - that proofers/editors aren't using something like MS Word and the tracking edit/changes and comments feature? They're making hard copy and scratching on it?
Hey, wuddever works. It's a minor point in the bigger picture of issues like who vacuums The Way Woods.
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Linda Z
Ham said:
That's pretty much what I do when I write something.
The process for editing someone else's writing is similar. I usually correct clearcut errors electronically, and then when I think I've ferreted out most of those little rascals, I print out the document and read it again on paper. It's amazing what you can miss when staring at a computer screen.
If I'm editing something that's extremely long, complex, and in extremely bad shape, I will clean up all the glaring errors--like misspellings, wrong format, bad punctuation, etc.--electonically, then print the whole mess out so that I can look over the organization, syntax, transitions, etc., more deliberately, mark the corrections, and then input and proof them.
As for where the books and Way Magazine were printed, when I was in Way Pub/Way Mag (from 1982-86), neither the mag nor the books were printed at HQ. They didn't have the right kind of press. What they're doing now I couldn't tell you. Doesn't sound like they're producing any books these days anyway.
In the 1980s, the books were printed by a big printer in Kingsport, TN. I don't remember where the mag was printed at that time.
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Steve Lortz
I used to teach writing and humane letters to 7th-graders. I required that the drafts of the papers they turned in be hand-written, in cursive script, with black ink. I knew that this would be a one-school-year experience for them. They had used a hand written print script in grade school, and would use computers to print out papers beyond my class, but I wanted them to have an experiential knowledge of what writing has been for so many generations. I remember clearly seeing copies of the letters my great grandfathers wrote home from the Civil War.
My students also had to bring personal copies of dictionaries to class with them, and we had a lot of fun answering questions by looking things up in the dictionary.
When I started writing for publication, all those years ago, I had a manual, portable typewriter. I used it till there were no more shops to keep it in repair. Then I switched to a Brother word-processor with a daisy wheel printer. That's what I started writing Dispensing with Darby on. I used it till one of the keys on the daisy wheel broke, and I found out that I could not get daisy wheels anymore. So I got a Brother word-processor with an inkjet and used it till the "1!" key stopped working. That's what I used to finish Dispensing with Darby. When I tried to get a new word-processor, I found out that THEY were now obsolete, and I had to get a computer. I eventually got a Dell pre-loaded with MS Works, but I had to get Word also, since so many people require that material be submitted in Word.
I find composition to be much easier on a computer than it was by hand or on a typewriter. Some of my students would compose their papers on their computers, and then copy them out in longhand to turn in. That was fine by me, and they knew it. My class was an instructional situation, but I can no longer picture writing by hand or typewriter in a commercial or professional application. Composing and editing on a computer are much, much closer to the brain's "speed of thought."
I learned a new adjective watching Judge Jennine Pirro today, "redonkulous." By using obsolete methods of processing written materials, The Way International is just being redonkulous!
Love,
Steve
PS - When I told my 7th-graders the writing requirements, I told them they had to use ball-point pens. That was a matter of old habit. My teachers had always stipulated ball-points because fountain pens could be too messy. I was astonished when my students asked me what a ball-point pen was, because each and every one of them was holding a ball-point. Then I realized, none of them had ever used, or possibly even seen, a fountain pen. There had never been any occassion in their brief lives when they had needed to recognize that a ball-point pen is a ball-point pen!
And The Way International doesn't realize they are hopelessly outmoded!
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