Why do people in the Way lie so easily to people outside the Way?

[citygirl99]

What do you think?

[GT]

You're missing an option.

The Way believes that the commandment to "lie not to one another" in Collossians is contained in the church epistles and is addressed solely to "the church". Since they claim to be the "one true church" and everyone outside of their organization is outside of the "household"-- they are under no obligation to tell you the truth.

They are wrong on every point, but that's what they choose to believe.

[Bolshevik]

The synchronized life . . . thoughts, words, and actions going in the wrong way. Misrepresent and claim a verse. Positive/negative believing. Secret knowledge. . . . Lie to yourself first, lying to everyone else becomes natural.

They live in a false-reality, it's where they are cozy.

[chockfull]

IMO the extreme teachings they have surrounding the "household" wall off the group and teach placing honesty to people outside that group as something that is lower priority. Also, in the higher ranks, justification for lies even to "the household" is made under the pretext that the dishonestly furthers the higher goals of the organization, for which the scripture "so the ministry is not blamed" is used to fuel the rationalization of that.

[Shellon]

Yup, I agree. Those outside are of a lower class and standing and not deserving of the same full sharing and disclosure as all their brilliance and information and consideration and care, clearly not worth of truth.

I'm a huge wisher that everyone would tell the truth and I accept that it just 'aint gonna be and it still hacks me off that it was such a slap in the face that a "church" would have such low, if any, respect for God's people as to go all over the spectrum of sugar coating to downright making the shi+ up to then making the one lied to feel they did something wrong.

More than a few time I thought I was losing something in my head when they insisted they'd not said something (lie) and I'd surely misunderstood (insult lie) then puke some new lie on top of all that. Took me 16 years to realize that.

Well, more than that but that's another hot dog.

[JavaJane]

More than a few time I thought I was losing something in my head when they insisted they'd not said something (lie) and I'd surely misunderstood (insult lie) then puke some new lie on top of all that. Took me 16 years to realize that.

oh, I remember those mindgames well... Usually happened when you followed their bizarre instructions without the desired result... Or if you were confronting someone in a leadership position.

[TrustAndObey]

Don't ruin their believing now..

If you make them say the truth, then their believing will be screwed up and it will be all your fault.. We can't have that!

[OldSkool]

Really, I think there are people who fit on all of the above listed categories and probably a few that aren't listed. But having been at HQ during all the "changes" rosie instituted at the way international's lawyers behest, I would say they are desperately trying to legitimize themselves with a thin veneer of corporate America's 501c3 non-profit style. So from my perspective, a lot of folks are embarrassed about all the crazy practices. Many, many things are kept very hush-hush by the staff. For example, the mandatory check in on Monday mornings by the staff to prove their attendance at the STS. I have never heard one word of that type of bull$h1t uttered at one of the community based events that happen every so often. Usually each year there is a concert where vendors, and other community folks are invited in for. During these events they put on the best smiley faces and really go out of their way to give off an air of legitimacy. If the community only knew what really goes on around there.

[citygirl99]

You're missing an option.

The Way believes that the commandment to "lie not to one another" in Collossians is contained in the church epistles and is addressed solely to "the church". Since they claim to be the "one true church" and everyone outside of their organization is outside of the "household"-- they are under no obligation to tell you the truth.

They are wrong on every point, but that's what they choose to believe.

Thanks for the input. I agree that is probably another good reason. As I'm hearing my "friend" lie, I'm astonished that they do it so assuredly (but not very believably). I know the truth about what she's lying about.

But their lying hurts others dramatically: financially, emotionally, and physically. And most unfortuntely you know you can't trust the person who is lying to you. It's both sad and scary.

[WordWolf]

In twi,

lying is, at worst, wrong if you get caught.

Rosa-lie lied in court. lcm lied in court.

R1c0 lied to the media.

twi has a long, proud tradition of lying to anyone and everyone,

starting with vpw lying to everyone on all sorts of subjects.

He once said he never had a cold or a headache in his entire life

(until possibly his 60s when he got sick and died, which was the context.)

Anyone here believe he NEVER got a headache his entire life?

vpw lied freely and at great length, all through his twi history,

and if that was the BEGINNING of his lying, I'd be shocked.

lcm and other have continued that all through twi history.

Ever hear a story of someone who left twi, from twi?

Was it ever "they didn't have any confidence in our current direction,

so we parted ways"? Or was it the usual "they are embracing evil and

their appetites so they're running out or we're kicking them out."

Whenever vpw raped a woman and she looked ready to talk to police,

she was sent home on a nice, slow bus while they savaged her reputation

at home with everyone she'd speak to-family, friends.

Slander, libel, fraud- all commonplace in twi.

Lying TO twi'ers is nothing, for that matter, and is the only way to

survive in twi eventually. Ever have a setback in life? Better lie

about it, or twi will rake you over the coals for "letting it happen"

"through negative believing."

Twi'ers (the top) lie to everyone, and force everyone to lie to them.

Why would lying to outsiders be a shock anymore?

[chockfull]

It's the same old story. Selling truth, and practicing lies.

Somehow that just doesn't seem to me what Christianity is all about.

[Nottawayfer]

I heard a Branch coordinator's wife contstantly say to other wayfers "You don't have to tell all you know."

She was a liar and a thief.

[skyrider]

vpw lied freely and at great length, all through his twi history,

and if that was the BEGINNING of his lying, I'd be shocked.

lcm and other have continued that all through twi history.

Ever hear a story of someone who left twi, from twi?

Was it ever "they didn't have any confidence in our current direction,

so we parted ways"? Or was it the usual "they are embracing evil and

their appetites so they're running out or we're kicking them out."

Whenever vpw raped a woman and she looked ready to talk to police,

she was sent home on a nice, slow bus while they savaged her reputation

at home with everyone she'd speak to-family, friends.

Slander, libel, fraud- all commonplace in twi.

Another title for wierwille.......the father of lies.

Uh, maybe not.....that title is already taken.

[chockfull]

I heard a Branch coordinator's wife contstantly say to other wayfers "You don't have to tell all you know."

She was a liar and a thief.

That's second cousin to the phrase "What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas". Or the more morbid TWI version "What happens on the motorcoach stays on the motorcoach".

Which brings up another common reason why people in the Way lie.

To cover things up.

[WordWolf]

Another title for wierwille.......the father of lies.

Uh, maybe not.....that title is already taken.

Go ahead and call him that. vpw's never been particularly original.

He ripped off the work and credit of others, and so on.

Ripping off a title like this would be appropriate.....

[Steve Lortz]

In twi,

lying is, at worst, wrong if you get caught.

Rosa-lie lied in court. lcm lied in court.

R1c0 lied to the media.

twi has a long, proud tradition of lying to anyone and everyone,

starting with vpw lying to everyone on all sorts of subjects.

He once said he never had a cold or a headache in his entire life

(until possibly his 60s when he got sick and died, which was the context.)

Anyone here believe he NEVER got a headache his entire life?

vpw lied freely and at great length, all through his twi history,

and if that was the BEGINNING of his lying, I'd be shocked.

lcm and other have continued that all through twi history.

Ever hear a story of someone who left twi, from twi?

Was it ever "they didn't have any confidence in our current direction,

so we parted ways"? Or was it the usual "they are embracing evil and

their appetites so they're running out or we're kicking them out."

Whenever vpw raped a woman and she looked ready to talk to police,

she was sent home on a nice, slow bus while they savaged her reputation

at home with everyone she'd speak to-family, friends.

Slander, libel, fraud- all commonplace in twi.

Lying TO twi'ers is nothing, for that matter, and is the only way to

survive in twi eventually. Ever have a setback in life? Better lie

about it, or twi will rake you over the coals for "letting it happen"

"through negative believing."

Twi'ers (the top) lie to everyone, and force everyone to lie to them.

Why would lying to outsiders be a shock anymore?

My answer to the question at the top of this thread is, because The Way International is, was, and always will be a cult.

Cult, cult, cult, cult.

WordWolf's entry that I just quoted is all the evidence any reasonable person would ever need to recognize that TWI is a cult!

Love,

Steve

[Belle]

Remember craiggers taught that it is OKAY to lie to those outside "the household" because the Judean midwives lied to the Egyptians when they were supposed to be killing babies. God BLESSED them FOR LYING!

Lying is just one more way TWI folks stay "in alignment & harmony".

Exodus 1:19-21

And the midwives said unto Pharaoh, Because the Hebrew women [are] not as the Egyptian women; for they [are] lively, and are delivered ere the midwives come in unto them.

Therefore God dealt well with the midwives: and the people multiplied, and waxed very mighty.

And it came to pass, because the midwives feared God, that he made them houses.

[soul searcher]

Based on a sample size of N=1 (i.e., the one and only Wayfer I ever knew) I'd have to go with #2.

But that certainly isn't the only reason she lied to me.

[And whatever she said to her family, I'll never know...blah blah blah It's not my business anyway.]

It's also easier to lie when live hundreds of miles away from someone.

[socks]

Hmmm....check this out.

Situational ethics were a hot topic in certain Way circles in the 80's.

There's an inherent conflict there though between SE and core Way teachings. Well, maybe not - but many of those in Way leadership roles have been very 2 dimensional thinkers and have difficulty seeing "principle" in application. The idea of pursuing a greater good requires a great deal of thought and consideration and isn't served well by flippant, shallow thinkers.

As to "lying", SE was flirted with in that context by at least some of the Way's leaders at one time, even those who disagreed with the idea on face value

and likely wouldn't have called it that.

For instance, to "not tell all you know" is commonly accepted as a wise thing to do, and certainly it could be practical. However, to not tell something or provide information knowing that could cause harm to another wouldn't be right, most would agree.

[skyrider]

Go ahead and call him that. vpw's never been particularly original.

He ripped off the work and credit of others, and so on.

Ripping off a title like this would be appropriate.....

Okay.

Wierwille........"the father of lies"

But look at the company he keeps....

Jhn 8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

[socks]

Sorry that's the case citygirl - myself, I can't pick one of those choices as I don't find that all those in the Way today fill those descriptions, certainly not the folks I know that are or still have a level of involvement.

People lie for a lot of reasons. Some people leave the Way and lie about what happened to them, I know that for a fact. Others sympathetic to their situation encourage them to lie about what happened or surpress facts that reflect favorably on the Way or don't support the "story" they'd like told. Unfortunately it's how it goes on all sides of the discussion. B---S--T knows no boundaries.

[waysider]

How Come People Act Like That?

[brainfixed]

I heard a Branch coordinator's wife contstantly say to other wayfers "You don't have to tell all you know."

She was a liar and a thief.

oh yes! just reading this took me from zero to rage in about 5 seconds!!!!! now i'm back down to about 1, but oh man life is pure he11 on what people don't tell you!!!! grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!