After LCM graduated from the 2nd corps, he was consistently assigned to hq-staff positions....ie corps director, president-elect, president. At NO interval was LCM sent on the field to run a Limb or Region (maybe Oklahoma, for a short year, ??)....to make his mark (mark off territory) and establish a loyal following like the other splinter guys.
Shr0yer...........Florida/Ohio
S33d..............California
Lynn..............Indiana
Finnig@n..........New York
C@rr..............New York
Geer..............New England area/International
S@nn..............Montana/Idaho
Many of the splinter guys were Region guys who simply STAYED IN THE REGIONS after Geer's poop paper hit the toilet. No stress, so strain......these guys just assumed "the top position" of new structures, new splinter groups.
LCM had NO "base camp" to return to.......he was NEVER on the field in any major position of authority. In many ways, he was an exception to the rule......most all other 'leaders' were sent on field assignments throughout their twi tenure.
Sky, wow!! I think you might be right. A lot of these men did lead Regions; and they did stay in their areas. Sky, I wonder why you didn't start your own group? You were a BMOC, in a way. If that question is too personal, please disregard.
Sky, wow!! I think you might be right. A lot of these men did lead Regions; and they did stay in their areas. Sky, I wonder why you didn't start your own group? You were a BMOC, in a way. If that question is too personal, please disregard.
Because his moral compass outweighed his ego IMO, unlike many of his peers. He is a good man.
Because his moral compass outweighed his ego IMO, unlike many of his peers. He is a good man.
Chock, I agree that Sky is a "good man". But, I think perhaps some of the Region leaders who stayed in their areas, are also " good men." I know a lot of people think Vince F. is garbage, which is their right. However, I attended his fellowship in the Albany area for years, and loved it. I think some of the Area Leaders stayed in their area, not because of ego, or greed, but because they saw a need to do so. I can only speak of what, I experienced. I think many people are/were thankful that Vince stayed, when TWI fell apart. Many people knew Vince, liked him, and trusted him. There might has been a huge void in the lives of many, many people if he had left. I know years ago, when I attended his fellowship, I went because I loved hearing him teach. My point is this; I believe that some Region Leaders stayed because they knew they were needed. The only Region Leader I really knew was Vince; perhaps others stayed for reasons unknown to me, or us.
Chock, I agree that Sky is a "good man". But, I think perhaps some of the Region leaders who stayed in their areas, are also " good men." I know a lot of people think Vince F. is garbage, which is their right. However, I attended his fellowship in the Albany area for years, and loved it. I think some of the Area Leaders stayed in their area, not because of ego, or greed, but because they saw a need to do so. I can only speak of what, I experienced. I think many people are/were thankful that Vince stayed, when TWI fell apart. Many people knew Vince, liked him, and trusted him. There might has been a huge void in the lives of many, many people if he had left. I know years ago, when I attended his fellowship, I went because I loved hearing him teach. My point is this; I believe that some Region Leaders stayed because they knew they were needed. The only Region Leader I really knew was Vince; perhaps others stayed for reasons unknown to me, or us.
Some people are happy in an alternate reality smaller Way-like group because that is their comfort zone. There are varying experiences I have heard of this. One example is a small branch like group that all walk in each others houses and totally financially support the leader. Of course the worse on the evil side of this is the river road group that has been in the news and the leader is in prison now. As far as Region Leaders, I don't really want to give them much attention. The vast majority of people I've met with that title have been tools. Don't know VF, but I don't see a whole lot of difference in what is up on his website than all the other ex-Way bigwigs with VP based ministries. I believe Timothy describes all of that as whom concerning faith have made shipwreck - instead of a genuine Christian community making up of the body of Christ including my Catholic neighbor, my Methodist other neighbor, and all of us with equal love and respect for one another, we have one more elitist seperatist "true household of God". That ironically accepts all that may benefit from their teachings. Sorry that is closer to the KKK crap going on in our country right now than it is to Christianity in my view. Just with a different label.
I have heard that rap way too often - "we're going to keep all the good things about the Way ministry that we love, but get rid of the politics". Yeah. Then 2 years down the road they are all receiving revelation of snakes coming out each others heads.
They don't work. They are not laying a foundation upon Jesus Christ. You can't have a foundation and not know who his body is.
DWBH aka RD saw the hypocisy in TWI when he was Trunk Leader in the 80's. He could have created his own splinter group but had the courage to reject everything that VPW taught. I have respect for Ralph, sorry it costed his marriage to Lori. Wish him well in his life.
The rest of the goon squad went on to start splinter groups that provide a "good" lifestyle for them selves...Shoenheit, Lynn, Finnigan, Geer,...and a host of others (including Dale Sides)...
...but not lcm...what gives loy? Thought you were committed?
How come loy never started another group?...was it part of the deal with the prosecutor?
On 8/3/2010 at 8:29 PM, skyrider said:
The difference is......
After LCM graduated from the 2nd corps, he was consistently assigned to hq-staff positions....ie corps director, president-elect, president. At NO interval was LCM sent on the field to run a Limb or Region (maybe Oklahoma, for a short year, ??)....to make his mark (mark off territory) and establish a loyal following like the other splinter guys.
Shr0yer...........Florida/Ohio
S33d..............California
Lynn..............Indiana
Finnig@n..........New York
C@rr..............New York
Geer..............New England area/International
S@nn..............Montana/Idaho
Many of the splinter guys were Region guys who simply STAYED IN THE REGIONS after Geer's poop paper hit the toilet. No stress, so strain......these guys just assumed "the top position" of new structures, new splinter groups.
LCM had NO "base camp" to return to.......he was NEVER on the field in any major position of authority. In many ways, he was an exception to the rule......most all other 'leaders' were sent on field assignments throughout their twi tenure.
On 8/3/2010 at 8:00 PM, waysider said:
The opera ain't over 'til the fat dude in leotards sings.
On 8/4/2010 at 7:17 PM, excathedra said:
i hope it's because he realizes he's pppphhhhhuuuucccckkkkked
i'd like to see rosie and her mate go out there
Yup to all that !
That makes me wonder if the type of personality / skills required of a leader in charge of maintaining the lockstep in cultdom are quite different from those of leaders who have what it takes to attract new recruits....
ahhhhh yes ....it's all peachy keen during the courtship and honeymoon phase...but lo and behold there comes a time afterward when one wakes up and finds they're married to a royal a$$hole of a cult !
Oh and just in case some of the board of dolts actually reads this I thought I'd clarify comments about Timothy and shipwreck. Although those splinters are the shipwreck it is definitely you, Way International that are the Titanic.
DWBH aka RD saw the hypocisy in TWI when he was Trunk Leader in the 80's. He could have created his own splinter group but had the courage to reject everything that VPW taught. I have respect for Ralph, sorry it costed his marriage to Lori. Wish him well in his life.
Why do you have to try to expose a GSC poster's identity... if you really do wish him well in his life?
Finnegan is one of the dirtiest, guiltiest, rotten-to-the-core wierwille clones on the planet. The only time vinny-the-hitter ever ran a TWIt region was in 1977-78, while he was LC in NJ. That's the only place he was a limp coordinator until dictor paul fired him at placements in 1984, because he had a fight with Geer who refused to listen to the "worldwide outreach coordinator", who was his boss, when vinny-the-hitter went over to England to "confront" geer. Little ole Chrissy had a hissy fit and ratted vinny out to dictor paul.
I had already demanded to leave HQ and the trunk before placements, and dictor personally "handled" my assignment by letting me choose where I wanted to go. I asked to go to NY, and coordinate the limb and Northeast region from there. Going into placements, 1984, THAT was my assignment.
The "routine" at placements at that time, was to handle all the "major" assignments on the first day, and then work through each corpse from 1 to whatever, then the outgoing Interim corpse. In 1984, dictor had been "emeritus" for almost two years, and rarely came into placements except to "check up" on us "keedz" to make sure we were doing it right, or to pass around his prosthetic eyeball for us all to touch and worship. On the first day of the 1984 placements meetings, dictor showed up right after we started. He came in from the back room of the BRC in shorts with a lit cigarette and a coffee cup of Drambuie, and "asked" if he could stay and "share" some things. First thing he said was that Bo Reahard would be leaving HQ to run a twig in Atlanta where Bo was starting a computer business with some of his international outreach department staff. Then....the bombshell. He had decided that vinny was on an ego trip and he needed to go "back out on the field" to get a grip on himself and get back in touch with "the ministry". He said that I was supposed to go to NY and do the NEast region from there. He said that, that would not be happening. He said "because Vince is such a 'famous' guy in the ministry, with such a lofty position, he needs an 'impressive" assignment to avoid negative gossip." So, he put him in NY because, he said, "DWBH is the only man in the ministry that can handle Vince. So, DWBH, you pick any limb you want in the northeast and keep an eye on Vince for me." The room was dead silent. Everyone was stunned.
then, dictor went on a rampage about international outreach, especially in Europe and Africa. He said that Geer was digging up all sorts of garbage on how phucked up Europe was, and that he (Geer) would now be made European Outreach Coordinator and European Corpse Coordinator as soon as the deal was done on the location, which turned out to be Gartmore. That's when we all figured out what happened with Beence and Bo.
When POP blew up in April, 1986, I had to send Pat Hughes and Randy Feese to St. Mary's, where finnegan was in a suicidal ideation episode, because so much in POP was about how vinny and Gary Curtis had screwed up Europe and Africa. Geer read it at the special corpse meeting he called. He named names including, Don and Howard, Da forehead, finnegan, Gary Curtis, Tom Knupp, Gary Frederick and the IO staff, and others. That's what kicked off finnegan's "suicide run". Finnegan regained his composure and became a staunch geerite from that moment on.
In 1989, when the split with Geer and the board of Terrorists was finalized, Finnegan took the entire limb of NY, the buildings at the limb HQ which were owned by TWIt, all the bookstore materials, and, most importantly, all the $ he had on hand, and started his own thing with John McCave doing the same thing on Long Island and NYC and joining Finnegan in the grab. They started sending their money to Geer, but, that didn't last very long. The two monster egos clashed and Liberty in Christ Ministries International was born.
I have absolutely NO RESPECT for Finnegan. He is in the same exact class as Geer, Lynn, Wrenn, Seed, Goulet, Schoenheit, Sides, Rood, SOWERS, and every other trailer trash offshoot there is. He is a liar and a thief. I KNOW he has never repented from all the myriad horrors he committed while a BMOC for TWIt. Just last year, a poster here at GSC who was assaulted by her area "leader" in westchester county, NY in 1984, and witnessed the numerous extra-marital trysts he engaged in with the nubile single young girls who lived in his way home. That resulted in the fiancée of one of those girls coming to the house and beating the crap out of the "leader", leaving him lying and bleeding on his own doorstep! When the Greasespotter called to inform vinny-the-hitter, he did nothing but tell everyone they were "out of fellowship", and to never talk about this again. Well, last spring (2016!), she called vinny on the phone and confronted him about this all, and demanded an admission and an apology. He tried to yell and intimidate her, his usual "counseling" style. She had none of it. Finally, after nearly 15 minutes, vinny spat out a sarcastic "OK! I'm sorry! Is that what you wanted to hear?" Such humility and grace, eh?
So, Grace Valerie Claire, I don't care much for, and think much less of your pal finnegan. Liking the way someone teaches religious bullshit for filthy lucre's sake is not my idea of a "Christian" leader or teacher. He's no different than Joel Osteen. One man's ceiling is another man's floor..........peace.
Finnegan is one of the dirtiest, guiltiest, rotten-to-the-core wierwille clones on the planet. The only time vinny-the-hitter ever ran a TWIt region was in 1977-78, while he was LC in NJ. That's the only place he was a limp coordinator until dictor paul fired him at placements in 1984, because he had a fight with Geer who refused to listen to the "worldwide outreach coordinator", who was his boss, when vinny-the-hitter went over to England to "confront" geer. Little ole Chrissy had a hissy fit and ratted vinny out to dictor paul.
I had already demanded to leave HQ and the trunk before placements, and dictor personally "handled" my assignment by letting me choose where I wanted to go. I asked to go to NY, and coordinate the limb and Northeast region from there. Going into placements, 1984, THAT was my assignment.
The "routine" at placements at that time, was to handle all the "major" assignments on the first day, and then work through each corpse from 1 to whatever, then the outgoing Interim corpse. In 1984, dictor had been "emeritus" for almost two years, and rarely came into placements except to "check up" on us "keedz" to make sure we were doing it right, or to pass around his prosthetic eyeball for us all to touch and worship. On the first day of the 1984 placements meetings, dictor showed up right after we started. He came in from the back room of the BRC in shorts with a lit cigarette and a coffee cup of Drambuie, and "asked" if he could stay and "share" some things. First thing he said was that Bo Reahard would be leaving HQ to run a twig in Atlanta where Bo was starting a computer business with some of his international outreach department staff. Then....the bombshell. He had decided that vinny was on an ego trip and he needed to go "back out on the field" to get a grip on himself and get back in touch with "the ministry". He said that I was supposed to go to NY and do the NEast region from there. He said that, that would not be happening. He said "because Vince is such a 'famous' guy in the ministry, with such a lofty position, he needs an 'impressive" assignment to avoid negative gossip." So, he put him in NY because, he said, "DWBH is the only man in the ministry that can handle Vince. So, DWBH, you pick any limb you want in the northeast and keep an eye on Vince for me." The room was dead silent. Everyone was stunned.
then, dictor went on a rampage about international outreach, especially in Europe and Africa. He said that Geer was digging up all sorts of garbage on how phucked up Europe was, and that he (Geer) would now be made European Outreach Coordinator and European Corpse Coordinator as soon as the deal was done on the location, which turned out to be Gartmore. That's when we all figured out what happened with Beence and Bo.
When POP blew up in April, 1986, I had to send Pat Hughes and Randy Feese to St. Mary's, where finnegan was in a suicidal ideation episode, because so much in POP was about how vinny and Gary Curtis had screwed up Europe and Africa. Geer read it at the special corpse meeting he called. He named names including, Don and Howard, Da forehead, finnegan, Gary Curtis, Tom Knupp, Gary Frederick and the IO staff, and others. That's what kicked off finnegan's "suicide run". Finnegan regained his composure and became a staunch geerite from that moment on.
In 1989, when the split with Geer and the board of Terrorists was finalized, Finnegan took the entire limb of NY, the buildings at the limb HQ which were owned by TWIt, all the bookstore materials, and, most importantly, all the $ he had on hand, and started his own thing with John McCave doing the same thing on Long Island and NYC and joining Finnegan in the grab. They started sending their money to Geer, but, that didn't last very long. The two monster egos clashed and Liberty in Christ Ministries International was born.
I have absolutely NO RESPECT for Finnegan. He is in the same exact class as Geer, Lynn, Wrenn, Seed, Goulet, Schoenheit, Sides, Rood, SOWERS, and every other trailer trash offshoot there is. He is a liar and a thief. I KNOW he has never repented from all the myriad horrors he committed while a BMOC for TWIt. Just last year, a poster here at GSC who was assaulted by her area "leader" in westchester county, NY in 1984, and witnessed the numerous extra-marital trysts he engaged in with the nubile single young girls who lived in his way home. That resulted in the fiancée of one of those girls coming to the house and beating the crap out of the "leader", leaving him lying and bleeding on his own doorstep! When the Greasespotter called to inform vinny-the-hitter, he did nothing but tell everyone they were "out of fellowship", and to never talk about this again. Well, last spring (2016!), she called vinny on the phone and confronted him about this all, and demanded an admission and an apology. He tried to yell and intimidate her, his usual "counseling" style. She had none of it. Finally, after nearly 15 minutes, vinny spat out a sarcastic "OK! I'm sorry! Is that what you wanted to hear?" Such humility and grace, eh?
So, Grace Valerie Claire, I don't care much for, and think much less of your pal finnegan. Liking the way someone teaches religious .... for filthy lucre's sake is not my idea of a "Christian" leader or teacher. He's no different than Joel Osteen. One man's ceiling is another man's floor..........peace.
DWBH, OMG!!! I am so sorry!! I did NOT know all this about Vince; truly I did not! If I had, I would NEVER have defended him. My bad; please accept my apologies. Truly I apologize to everyone here at the GSC, for defending him!! If I had known all of this, I would have written him off years ago! Thanks DWBH, for your insight!!
No apology necessary at all GVC! I just gave you some facts and history you had no knowledge of. That's the mission of this site......to tell the other side of all the "stohries" and urban legends of TWIt's filthy underbelly. Again Grace, no need for any apology. Have a great day!..........peace.
No apology necessary at all GVC! I just gave you some facts and history you had no knowledge of. That's the mission of this site......to tell the other side of all the "stohries" and urban legends of TWIt's filthy underbelly. Again Grace, no need for any apology. Have a great day!..........peace.
"Then, dictor went on a rampage about international outreach, especially in Europe and Africa. He said that Geer was digging up all sorts of garbage on how phucked up Europe was, and that he (Geer) would now be made European Outreach Coordinator and European Corpse Coordinator as soon as the deal was done on the location, which turned out to be Gartmore. That's when we all figured out what happened with Beence and Bo.
When POP blew up in April, 1986, I had to send Pat Hughes and Randy Feese to St. Mary's, where finnegan was in a suicidal ideation episode, because so much in POP was about how vinny and Gary Curtis had screwed up Europe and Africa. Geer read it at the special corpse meeting he called. He named names including, Don and Howard, Da forehead, finnegan, Gary Curtis, Tom Knupp, Gary Frederick and the IO staff, and others. That's what kicked off finnegan's "suicide run". Finnegan regained his composure and became a staunch geerite from that moment on. "
Some time around early 1990, Geer put out "A Pivot Point in History", a 3-part tape set that claimed God was not All-Knowing, and did so in easy-to-refute claims and justifications. When I finally spoke to VInce about it, VInce (who should have figured it out LONG before I did since I heard about it several months later and by accident) used a half-@$$ed attempt to AGREE with it, and was only interested in me not going around discussing it with people. He wasn't interested in whether or not it was TRUE. He was interested in everyone saying the same thing. Was probably not that hard, for that matter- my Territory Coordinator at the time was parroting the same non-answers as everyone else. ("What God knows, He knows. What God doesn't know, He doesn't know.") I was actually preparing to mail little packets of crackers to people I'd heard parrot that sort of thing if I heard them do it again. (In the case of the Territory guy, he started to back off on the subject and it sounded like he was trying hard not to outright say he completely disagreed with it, so I never did mail it or hand him any. I was delighted.)
But that explains why Vince didn't sweat whether it was true, only that everyone got with the party line. If I'd realized that sooner, I'd not have bothered my other attempts to get Vince to think outside the party line (no, I'll leave that one private.)
Finnegan is one of the dirtiest, guiltiest, rotten-to-the-core wierwille clones on the planet. The only time vinny-the-hitter ever ran a TWIt region was in 1977-78, while he was LC in NJ. That's the only place he was a limp coordinator until dictor paul fired him at placements in 1984, because he had a fight with Geer who refused to listen to the "worldwide outreach coordinator", who was his boss, when vinny-the-hitter went over to England to "confront" geer. Little ole Chrissy had a hissy fit and ratted vinny out to dictor paul.
I had already demanded to leave HQ and the trunk before placements, and dictor personally "handled" my assignment by letting me choose where I wanted to go. I asked to go to NY, and coordinate the limb and Northeast region from there. Going into placements, 1984, THAT was my assignment.
The "routine" at placements at that time, was to handle all the "major" assignments on the first day, and then work through each corpse from 1 to whatever, then the outgoing Interim corpse. In 1984, dictor had been "emeritus" for almost two years, and rarely came into placements except to "check up" on us "keedz" to make sure we were doing it right, or to pass around his prosthetic eyeball for us all to touch and worship. On the first day of the 1984 placements meetings, dictor showed up right after we started. He came in from the back room of the BRC in shorts with a lit cigarette and a coffee cup of Drambuie, and "asked" if he could stay and "share" some things. First thing he said was that Bo Reahard would be leaving HQ to run a twig in Atlanta where Bo was starting a computer business with some of his international outreach department staff. Then....the bombshell. He had decided that vinny was on an ego trip and he needed to go "back out on the field" to get a grip on himself and get back in touch with "the ministry". He said that I was supposed to go to NY and do the NEast region from there. He said that, that would not be happening. He said "because Vince is such a 'famous' guy in the ministry, with such a lofty position, he needs an 'impressive" assignment to avoid negative gossip." So, he put him in NY because, he said, "DWBH is the only man in the ministry that can handle Vince. So, DWBH, you pick any limb you want in the northeast and keep an eye on Vince for me." The room was dead silent. Everyone was stunned.
then, dictor went on a rampage about international outreach, especially in Europe and Africa. He said that Geer was digging up all sorts of garbage on how phucked up Europe was, and that he (Geer) would now be made European Outreach Coordinator and European Corpse Coordinator as soon as the deal was done on the location, which turned out to be Gartmore. That's when we all figured out what happened with Beence and Bo.
When POP blew up in April, 1986, I had to send Pat Hughes and Randy Feese to St. Mary's, where finnegan was in a suicidal ideation episode, because so much in POP was about how vinny and Gary Curtis had screwed up Europe and Africa. Geer read it at the special corpse meeting he called. He named names including, Don and Howard, Da forehead, finnegan, Gary Curtis, Tom Knupp, Gary Frederick and the IO staff, and others. That's what kicked off finnegan's "suicide run". Finnegan regained his composure and became a staunch geerite from that moment on.
In 1989, when the split with Geer and the board of Terrorists was finalized, Finnegan took the entire limb of NY, the buildings at the limb HQ which were owned by TWIt, all the bookstore materials, and, most importantly, all the $ he had on hand, and started his own thing with John McCave doing the same thing on Long Island and NYC and joining Finnegan in the grab. They started sending their money to Geer, but, that didn't last very long. The two monster egos clashed and Liberty in Christ Ministries International was born.
I have absolutely NO RESPECT for Finnegan. He is in the same exact class as Geer, Lynn, Wrenn, Seed, Goulet, Schoenheit, Sides, Rood, SOWERS, and every other trailer trash offshoot there is. He is a liar and a thief. I KNOW he has never repented from all the myriad horrors he committed while a BMOC for TWIt. Just last year, a poster here at GSC who was assaulted by her area "leader" in westchester county, NY in 1984, and witnessed the numerous extra-marital trysts he engaged in with the nubile single young girls who lived in his way home. That resulted in the fiancée of one of those girls coming to the house and beating the crap out of the "leader", leaving him lying and bleeding on his own doorstep! When the Greasespotter called to inform vinny-the-hitter, he did nothing but tell everyone they were "out of fellowship", and to never talk about this again. Well, last spring (2016!), she called vinny on the phone and confronted him about this all, and demanded an admission and an apology. He tried to yell and intimidate her, his usual "counseling" style. She had none of it. Finally, after nearly 15 minutes, vinny spat out a sarcastic "OK! I'm sorry! Is that what you wanted to hear?" Such humility and grace, eh?
So, Grace Valerie Claire, I don't care much for, and think much less of your pal finnegan. Liking the way someone teaches religious .... for filthy lucre's sake is not my idea of a "Christian" leader or teacher. He's no different than Joel Osteen. One man's ceiling is another man's floor..........peace.
Cool stories bro.
Placements nowadays have changed. The Wizard of Roz and her little dog Donna now all decide them over tea and crumpets in Donna's apartment. Then they tell de Loser, who actually has a permanent place in the back of his head for Roz's hand to fit controlling things. It's so transparent that when used he is actually not aware of it.
Some of the lemmings are leaving. Others will follow over cliff to death.
On 8/25/2017 at 3:41 AM, DontWorryBeHappy said:
<snip> ...............
then, dictor went on a rampage about international outreach, especially in Europe and Africa. He said that Geer was digging up all sorts of garbage on how phucked up Europe was, and that he (Geer) would now be made European Outreach Coordinator and European Corpse Coordinator as soon as the deal was done on the location, which turned out to be Gartmore. That's when we all figured out what happened with Beence and Bo.
.........
Thanks DWBH.......
When ole wierwille went on a rampage about how phucked up Europe and Africa was.......did he give any specific? Hells Bells......the SAME THING was said about the USA way corps in 1986 by geer, two years later. Looking back on all this crap........wierwille and geer were dirty, lying, manipulating scoundrels.
Anything and everything wierwille claimed......is highly suspect. The guy was a bully and a fraud.
Any narcissist can bark orders, stomp out of a room.......and go back to his booze.
dictor said Zaire was all screwed up because Knupp and Gary Curtis, screwed up the French translation of piffle. Nevermind that there were thousands of people all over the poor country who became piffle grads by the hundreds every week! Geer also blamed translations for screwing up Europe with all the "different versions of the class" which were ALL different from "the ORIGINAL". Then he accused Finnegan, coward allen, Gary Frederick, and bo reahard of dismissing and dissing all international outreach by ignorantly attempting to "Americanize the ministry" in every country except Canada. He said that they were "bullying" people to do it "their way, and not God's". It was a whine-fest to cast aspersions at everyone as if they were coming by revelation from dictor paul straight from his waterlogged grave. EVERYBODY EVERYWHERE was "off da woid", "out of fellowship", or "influenced by debbil spurts" except for the busdriver and the "man-o-gawd". LOL! All POP was, was the psychotic ramblings of 2 sociopathic, paranoid narcissists on beer and drambuie in Scotland. What a fraud and a cruel joke with diabolical purpose. These morons are "bema bound"??? Pfffffffftttttttttttt!
dictor said Zaire was all screwed up because Knupp and Gary Curtis, screwed up the French translation of piffle. Nevermind that there were thousands of people all over the poor country who became piffle grads by the hundreds every week! Geer also blamed translations for screwing up Europe with all the "different versions of the class" which were ALL different from "the ORIGINAL". Then he accused Finnegan, coward allen, Gary Frederick, and bo reahard of dismissing and dissing all international outreach by ignorantly attempting to "Americanize the ministry" in every country except Canada. He said that they were "bullying" people to do it "their way, and not God's". It was a whine-fest to cast aspersions at everyone as if they were coming by revelation from dictor paul straight from his waterlogged grave. EVERYBODY EVERYWHERE was "off da woid", "out of fellowship", or "influenced by debbil spurts" except for the busdriver and the "man-o-gawd". LOL! All POP was, was the psychotic ramblings of 2 sociopathic, paranoid narcissists on beer and drambuie in Scotland. What a fraud and a cruel joke with diabolical purpose. These morons are "bema bound"??? Pfffffffftttttttttttt!
those morons should have been bound and gagged to stave off the flow of bull$hit !
dictor said Zaire was all screwed up because Knupp and Gary Curtis, screwed up the French translation of piffle. Nevermind that there were thousands of people all over the poor country who became piffle grads by the hundreds every week! Geer also blamed translations for screwing up Europe with all the "different versions of the class" which were ALL different from "the ORIGINAL". Then he accused Finnegan, coward allen, Gary Frederick, and bo reahard of dismissing and dissing all international outreach by ignorantly attempting to "Americanize the ministry" in every country except Canada. He said that they were "bullying" people to do it "their way, and not God's". It was a whine-fest to cast aspersions at everyone as if they were coming by revelation from dictor paul straight from his waterlogged grave. EVERYBODY EVERYWHERE was "off da woid", "out of fellowship", or "influenced by debbil spurts" except for the busdriver and the "man-o-gawd". LOL! All POP was, was the psychotic ramblings of 2 sociopathic, paranoid narcissists on beer and drambuie in Scotland. What a fraud and a cruel joke with diabolical purpose. These morons are "bema bound"??? Pfffffffftttttttttttt!
Thanks DWBH..........
Seeing all the wierwille and geer schit that has hit the fan thru the years..........I'd be more inclined to side with Curtis and Knupp than the sociopaths and narcissists, wierwille and geer. The drambuie king and paranoid busdriver were shysters and con men with not an ounce of empathy for others.......
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Grace Valerie Claire
Sky, wow!! I think you might be right. A lot of these men did lead Regions; and they did stay in their areas. Sky, I wonder why you didn't start your own group? You were a BMOC, in a way. If that question is too personal, please disregard.
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chockfull
Because his moral compass outweighed his ego IMO, unlike many of his peers. He is a good man.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Chock, I agree that Sky is a "good man". But, I think perhaps some of the Region leaders who stayed in their areas, are also " good men." I know a lot of people think Vince F. is garbage, which is their right. However, I attended his fellowship in the Albany area for years, and loved it. I think some of the Area Leaders stayed in their area, not because of ego, or greed, but because they saw a need to do so. I can only speak of what, I experienced. I think many people are/were thankful that Vince stayed, when TWI fell apart. Many people knew Vince, liked him, and trusted him. There might has been a huge void in the lives of many, many people if he had left. I know years ago, when I attended his fellowship, I went because I loved hearing him teach. My point is this; I believe that some Region Leaders stayed because they knew they were needed. The only Region Leader I really knew was Vince; perhaps others stayed for reasons unknown to me, or us.
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chockfull
Some people are happy in an alternate reality smaller Way-like group because that is their comfort zone. There are varying experiences I have heard of this. One example is a small branch like group that all walk in each others houses and totally financially support the leader. Of course the worse on the evil side of this is the river road group that has been in the news and the leader is in prison now. As far as Region Leaders, I don't really want to give them much attention. The vast majority of people I've met with that title have been tools. Don't know VF, but I don't see a whole lot of difference in what is up on his website than all the other ex-Way bigwigs with VP based ministries. I believe Timothy describes all of that as whom concerning faith have made shipwreck - instead of a genuine Christian community making up of the body of Christ including my Catholic neighbor, my Methodist other neighbor, and all of us with equal love and respect for one another, we have one more elitist seperatist "true household of God". That ironically accepts all that may benefit from their teachings. Sorry that is closer to the KKK crap going on in our country right now than it is to Christianity in my view. Just with a different label.
I have heard that rap way too often - "we're going to keep all the good things about the Way ministry that we love, but get rid of the politics". Yeah. Then 2 years down the road they are all receiving revelation of snakes coming out each others heads.
They don't work. They are not laying a foundation upon Jesus Christ. You can't have a foundation and not know who his body is.
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
DWBH aka RD saw the hypocisy in TWI when he was Trunk Leader in the 80's. He could have created his own splinter group but had the courage to reject everything that VPW taught. I have respect for Ralph, sorry it costed his marriage to Lori. Wish him well in his life.
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T-Bone
Yup to all that !
That makes me wonder if the type of personality / skills required of a leader in charge of maintaining the lockstep in cultdom are quite different from those of leaders who have what it takes to attract new recruits....
ahhhhh yes ....it's all peachy keen during the courtship and honeymoon phase...but lo and behold there comes a time afterward when one wakes up and finds they're married to a royal a$$hole of a cult !
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chockfull
Oh and just in case some of the board of dolts actually reads this I thought I'd clarify comments about Timothy and shipwreck. Although those splinters are the shipwreck it is definitely you, Way International that are the Titanic.
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Rocky
Why do you have to try to expose a GSC poster's identity... if you really do wish him well in his life?
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DontWorryBeHappy
Grace Valerie Claire, Hi!
Finnegan is one of the dirtiest, guiltiest, rotten-to-the-core wierwille clones on the planet. The only time vinny-the-hitter ever ran a TWIt region was in 1977-78, while he was LC in NJ. That's the only place he was a limp coordinator until dictor paul fired him at placements in 1984, because he had a fight with Geer who refused to listen to the "worldwide outreach coordinator", who was his boss, when vinny-the-hitter went over to England to "confront" geer. Little ole Chrissy had a hissy fit and ratted vinny out to dictor paul.
I had already demanded to leave HQ and the trunk before placements, and dictor personally "handled" my assignment by letting me choose where I wanted to go. I asked to go to NY, and coordinate the limb and Northeast region from there. Going into placements, 1984, THAT was my assignment.
The "routine" at placements at that time, was to handle all the "major" assignments on the first day, and then work through each corpse from 1 to whatever, then the outgoing Interim corpse. In 1984, dictor had been "emeritus" for almost two years, and rarely came into placements except to "check up" on us "keedz" to make sure we were doing it right, or to pass around his prosthetic eyeball for us all to touch and worship. On the first day of the 1984 placements meetings, dictor showed up right after we started. He came in from the back room of the BRC in shorts with a lit cigarette and a coffee cup of Drambuie, and "asked" if he could stay and "share" some things. First thing he said was that Bo Reahard would be leaving HQ to run a twig in Atlanta where Bo was starting a computer business with some of his international outreach department staff. Then....the bombshell. He had decided that vinny was on an ego trip and he needed to go "back out on the field" to get a grip on himself and get back in touch with "the ministry". He said that I was supposed to go to NY and do the NEast region from there. He said that, that would not be happening. He said "because Vince is such a 'famous' guy in the ministry, with such a lofty position, he needs an 'impressive" assignment to avoid negative gossip." So, he put him in NY because, he said, "DWBH is the only man in the ministry that can handle Vince. So, DWBH, you pick any limb you want in the northeast and keep an eye on Vince for me." The room was dead silent. Everyone was stunned.
then, dictor went on a rampage about international outreach, especially in Europe and Africa. He said that Geer was digging up all sorts of garbage on how phucked up Europe was, and that he (Geer) would now be made European Outreach Coordinator and European Corpse Coordinator as soon as the deal was done on the location, which turned out to be Gartmore. That's when we all figured out what happened with Beence and Bo.
When POP blew up in April, 1986, I had to send Pat Hughes and Randy Feese to St. Mary's, where finnegan was in a suicidal ideation episode, because so much in POP was about how vinny and Gary Curtis had screwed up Europe and Africa. Geer read it at the special corpse meeting he called. He named names including, Don and Howard, Da forehead, finnegan, Gary Curtis, Tom Knupp, Gary Frederick and the IO staff, and others. That's what kicked off finnegan's "suicide run". Finnegan regained his composure and became a staunch geerite from that moment on.
In 1989, when the split with Geer and the board of Terrorists was finalized, Finnegan took the entire limb of NY, the buildings at the limb HQ which were owned by TWIt, all the bookstore materials, and, most importantly, all the $ he had on hand, and started his own thing with John McCave doing the same thing on Long Island and NYC and joining Finnegan in the grab. They started sending their money to Geer, but, that didn't last very long. The two monster egos clashed and Liberty in Christ Ministries International was born.
I have absolutely NO RESPECT for Finnegan. He is in the same exact class as Geer, Lynn, Wrenn, Seed, Goulet, Schoenheit, Sides, Rood, SOWERS, and every other trailer trash offshoot there is. He is a liar and a thief. I KNOW he has never repented from all the myriad horrors he committed while a BMOC for TWIt. Just last year, a poster here at GSC who was assaulted by her area "leader" in westchester county, NY in 1984, and witnessed the numerous extra-marital trysts he engaged in with the nubile single young girls who lived in his way home. That resulted in the fiancée of one of those girls coming to the house and beating the crap out of the "leader", leaving him lying and bleeding on his own doorstep! When the Greasespotter called to inform vinny-the-hitter, he did nothing but tell everyone they were "out of fellowship", and to never talk about this again. Well, last spring (2016!), she called vinny on the phone and confronted him about this all, and demanded an admission and an apology. He tried to yell and intimidate her, his usual "counseling" style. She had none of it. Finally, after nearly 15 minutes, vinny spat out a sarcastic "OK! I'm sorry! Is that what you wanted to hear?" Such humility and grace, eh?
So, Grace Valerie Claire, I don't care much for, and think much less of your pal finnegan. Liking the way someone teaches religious bullshit for filthy lucre's sake is not my idea of a "Christian" leader or teacher. He's no different than Joel Osteen. One man's ceiling is another man's floor..........peace.
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Grace Valerie Claire
DWBH, OMG!!! I am so sorry!! I did NOT know all this about Vince; truly I did not! If I had, I would NEVER have defended him. My bad; please accept my apologies. Truly I apologize to everyone here at the GSC, for defending him!! If I had known all of this, I would have written him off years ago! Thanks DWBH, for your insight!!
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DontWorryBeHappy
No apology necessary at all GVC! I just gave you some facts and history you had no knowledge of. That's the mission of this site......to tell the other side of all the "stohries" and urban legends of TWIt's filthy underbelly. Again Grace, no need for any apology. Have a great day!..........peace.
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Grace Valerie Claire
DWBH, thanks again for the information. Shalom!!
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WordWolf
"Then, dictor went on a rampage about international outreach, especially in Europe and Africa. He said that Geer was digging up all sorts of garbage on how phucked up Europe was, and that he (Geer) would now be made European Outreach Coordinator and European Corpse Coordinator as soon as the deal was done on the location, which turned out to be Gartmore. That's when we all figured out what happened with Beence and Bo.
When POP blew up in April, 1986, I had to send Pat Hughes and Randy Feese to St. Mary's, where finnegan was in a suicidal ideation episode, because so much in POP was about how vinny and Gary Curtis had screwed up Europe and Africa. Geer read it at the special corpse meeting he called. He named names including, Don and Howard, Da forehead, finnegan, Gary Curtis, Tom Knupp, Gary Frederick and the IO staff, and others. That's what kicked off finnegan's "suicide run". Finnegan regained his composure and became a staunch geerite from that moment on. "
===========================================================
That explains a lot. Specifically, for me......
Some time around early 1990, Geer put out "A Pivot Point in History", a 3-part tape set that claimed God was not All-Knowing, and did so in easy-to-refute claims and justifications. When I finally spoke to VInce about it, VInce (who should have figured it out LONG before I did since I heard about it several months later and by accident) used a half-@$$ed attempt to AGREE with it, and was only interested in me not going around discussing it with people. He wasn't interested in whether or not it was TRUE. He was interested in everyone saying the same thing. Was probably not that hard, for that matter- my Territory Coordinator at the time was parroting the same non-answers as everyone else. ("What God knows, He knows. What God doesn't know, He doesn't know.") I was actually preparing to mail little packets of crackers to people I'd heard parrot that sort of thing if I heard them do it again. (In the case of the Territory guy, he started to back off on the subject and it sounded like he was trying hard not to outright say he completely disagreed with it, so I never did mail it or hand him any. I was delighted.)
But that explains why Vince didn't sweat whether it was true, only that everyone got with the party line. If I'd realized that sooner, I'd not have bothered my other attempts to get Vince to think outside the party line (no, I'll leave that one private.)
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chockfull
Cool stories bro.
Placements nowadays have changed. The Wizard of Roz and her little dog Donna now all decide them over tea and crumpets in Donna's apartment. Then they tell de Loser, who actually has a permanent place in the back of his head for Roz's hand to fit controlling things. It's so transparent that when used he is actually not aware of it.
Some of the lemmings are leaving. Others will follow over cliff to death.
.
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skyrider
Thanks DWBH.......
When ole wierwille went on a rampage about how phucked up Europe and Africa was.......did he give any specific? Hells Bells......the SAME THING was said about the USA way corps in 1986 by geer, two years later. Looking back on all this crap........wierwille and geer were dirty, lying, manipulating scoundrels.
Anything and everything wierwille claimed......is highly suspect. The guy was a bully and a fraud.
Any narcissist can bark orders, stomp out of a room.......and go back to his booze.
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waysider
Summarized version:
Nothing and nobody was ever quite good enough to satisfy "leadership".
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DontWorryBeHappy
Hi Skyrider!
dictor said Zaire was all screwed up because Knupp and Gary Curtis, screwed up the French translation of piffle. Nevermind that there were thousands of people all over the poor country who became piffle grads by the hundreds every week! Geer also blamed translations for screwing up Europe with all the "different versions of the class" which were ALL different from "the ORIGINAL". Then he accused Finnegan, coward allen, Gary Frederick, and bo reahard of dismissing and dissing all international outreach by ignorantly attempting to "Americanize the ministry" in every country except Canada. He said that they were "bullying" people to do it "their way, and not God's". It was a whine-fest to cast aspersions at everyone as if they were coming by revelation from dictor paul straight from his waterlogged grave. EVERYBODY EVERYWHERE was "off da woid", "out of fellowship", or "influenced by debbil spurts" except for the busdriver and the "man-o-gawd". LOL! All POP was, was the psychotic ramblings of 2 sociopathic, paranoid narcissists on beer and drambuie in Scotland. What a fraud and a cruel joke with diabolical purpose. These morons are "bema bound"??? Pfffffffftttttttttttt!
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T-Bone
those morons should have been bound and gagged to stave off the flow of bull$hit !
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DontWorryBeHappy
LOL T-Bone!
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skyrider
Thanks DWBH..........
Seeing all the wierwille and geer schit that has hit the fan thru the years..........I'd be more inclined to side with Curtis and Knupp than the sociopaths and narcissists, wierwille and geer. The drambuie king and paranoid busdriver were shysters and con men with not an ounce of empathy for others.......
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Grace Valerie Claire
WW, yes!! I thought LCM was a terrible teacher; I thought his teachings were boring.
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