i absolutely appreciate your posts copenhagen and the truth facts whatever of them
and socks
Jim meant well and I loved him dearly. He had a huge impact on my life. But with Jim you had to know going in where he was at, and his limits. I will never regret knowing him and be thankful for the time we had together. He knew as I came to know, the reality of life.
You're welcome, xcelta. You know, Jim performed the wedding ceremony for the wif' and I. I think it was the 2nd or 3rd he'd done and only the second in our collective Northern Cal fellowship.
Donna - met her shortly after she came to the Hayward, CA fellowship of Pat and Nancy C. Nice, outgoing. Easy on the eyes as they say and always easy to be around. Passionate but reasonable with others.
Linder - never met him, don't know him or anything about him.
Shouting matches - this reminded me of a completely off topic event that occurred years ago with Jim, Classic Doop - you'll get a kick out of it. ( I may have told it before so excuse me if I did - old and all) Cookin' M ama was playing at the Lion S hare in Marin, CA. We played there a lot, and this was early on when both Jim and Steve were a team, the ol' Frick 'n' Frack of memory (for those who do remember) Fellowships were growing all over the Bay Area and lots of people in Alameda with Howie and the gang where we were from. There was this local character a lot of people knew, pretty rough character, took it upon himself to tattoo upside down crosses on his hands and his usual weirdness got focused on the Wayfers in the city for awhile. He showed up one night with a couple of buds at the club and during our break was in the back giving Paul H, who played sax, a boat load of grief. He knew Paul and he was doing a real number on him and everybody within earshot. Paul was trying to talk him down. We were all in the back stage area, off the parking lot, and Jim and Steve were there and this guy starts giving Jim some s--t, making fun of him. "Who are you? Who do you think you are? Jesus?" That kind of stuff.
Jim - tall and skinny, the big 'stache, smoking his cigarette and this other guy are kind of squaring off. The guy was huge, and definitely intimidating just walking around let alone carrying on like he was. The 'Share had a couple of big guys that worked there, but this was a place where it was very uncool to act like that so they were kind of checking in on us but probably assumed it would cool off on it's own and left. It didn't. So Steve's off to the side leaning against the wall, brim low just watching and we're thinking if this doesn't simmer down it's going to go south quick. The guy's yelling and swearing at Jim and Jim finally looks him straight in the eye and goes "PHFFFFT! F--k OFF!!!"
The nut case stops for a second like he can't believe it - "What did you say to me?" Jim takes a hit off his cigarette and blows smoke at the guy and says "You heard me! FU-UK OFF!!!"
The noise nut kinda pulls himself together, his bud's are drawing in close and I'm thinking this could get very weird - 3 of them in a small space and they do this for a hobby and think it's fun to bust heads. There's about 8 of us but this is about the last thing anybody wants to do during our break from the first set - get into a bloody fight and then go start playing for 45", right? And I can't believe Jim's just standing there, puffing away and smiling that big smile of his like he's playing cards and has 2 aces in his hand and one showing.
Boiled brain guy sticks a fist out and says "You know what I could do to you right now? I'm gonna rip your f--k-g head off!!!!" And Jim leans over and I swear this is true - he blows smoke at the guy and says "Do it!"
It's quiet for a sec' and the guy's just staring at Jim and Jim's drilling holes back in the guy's head. He's laughing! "Do IT!!!"
Sweaty crazy guy's veins are popping and finally he just kind of deflates and shakes his head and says....."You're crazy. You - are - f--k--g - crazy....." and leaves. His buds follow.
Jim just started laughing and everyone just went "Whewwww......" and took a breath. Didn't phase Jim at all. He had a few choice words and noted that "Greater is He that's in me than whoever's in that foot-h--e!!"
Jim was a lot of things to a lot of people and that's why - if that was the only time like that it would be one thing but it wasn't by a long shot. When push came to shove and it was time to lay 'em down on the line he was ready to go, right now. He truly had "faith".
"Do it".
The whole deal with Jim E and VPW spoke to a whole side of Jim that probably represents his strongest and weakest points. We all have them and so did he and he made his choices. There weren't many like him and not many like him even today. Like I said, he knew whereof he spoke.
Really, my experiences with Donna was that she is a cold, calculating individual who has sold her soul (so to speak) in order to run the way international. She has no genuine concern for people. What concern she once had has been replaced with thinking she is caring for people by proxy through ministry decisions that are "best" for others. The benevolent dictator comes to mind. She knows what is best for you and if you give it time you will see the wisdom in hindsight. Really, I think she has ice water in her veins.
And the way international paid $29,000 for their football...oh and some lamo infomercial that MSNBC axed because they discovered they had promoted an abusive cult...
And the way international paid $29,000 for their football...oh and some lamo infomercial that MSNBC axed because they discovered they had promoted an abusive cult...
We really need a new stock image for "Your ABS at Work!!!!".
$29,000
Your ABS at Work!!!
You're welcome, xcelta. You know, Jim performed the wedding ceremony for the wif' and I. I think it was the 2nd or 3rd he'd done and only the second in our collective Northern Cal fellowship.
Donna - met her shortly after she came to the Hayward, CA fellowship of Pat and Nancy C. Nice, outgoing. Easy on the eyes as they say and always easy to be around. Passionate but reasonable with others.
Linder - never met him, don't know him or anything about him.
Shouting matches - this reminded me of a completely off topic event that occurred years ago with Jim, Classic Doop - you'll get a kick out of it. ( I may have told it before so excuse me if I did - old and all) Cookin' M ama was playing at the Lion S hare in Marin, CA. We played there a lot, and this was early on when both Jim and Steve were a team, the ol' Frick 'n' Frack of memory (for those who do remember) Fellowships were growing all over the Bay Area and lots of people in Alameda with Howie and the gang where we were from. There was this local character a lot of people knew, pretty rough character, took it upon himself to tattoo upside down crosses on his hands and his usual weirdness got focused on the Wayfers in the city for awhile. He showed up one night with a couple of buds at the club and during our break was in the back giving Paul H, who played sax, a boat load of grief. He knew Paul and he was doing a real number on him and everybody within earshot. Paul was trying to talk him down. We were all in the back stage area, off the parking lot, and Jim and Steve were there and this guy starts giving Jim some s--t, making fun of him. "Who are you? Who do you think you are? Jesus?" That kind of stuff.
Jim - tall and skinny, the big 'stache, smoking his cigarette and this other guy are kind of squaring off. The guy was huge, and definitely intimidating just walking around let alone carrying on like he was. The 'Share had a couple of big guys that worked there, but this was a place where it was very uncool to act like that so they were kind of checking in on us but probably assumed it would cool off on it's own and left. It didn't. So Steve's off to the side leaning against the wall, brim low just watching and we're thinking if this doesn't simmer down it's going to go south quick. The guy's yelling and swearing at Jim and Jim finally looks him straight in the eye and goes "PHFFFFT! F--k OFF!!!"
The nut case stops for a second like he can't believe it - "What did you say to me?" Jim takes a hit off his cigarette and blows smoke at the guy and says "You heard me! FU-UK OFF!!!"
The noise nut kinda pulls himself together, his bud's are drawing in close and I'm thinking this could get very weird - 3 of them in a small space and they do this for a hobby and think it's fun to bust heads. There's about 8 of us but this is about the last thing anybody wants to do during our break from the first set - get into a bloody fight and then go start playing for 45", right? And I can't believe Jim's just standing there, puffing away and smiling that big smile of his like he's playing cards and has 2 aces in his hand and one showing.
Boiled brain guy sticks a fist out and says "You know what I could do to you right now? I'm gonna rip your f--k-g head off!!!!" And Jim leans over and I swear this is true - he blows smoke at the guy and says "Do it!"
It's quiet for a sec' and the guy's just staring at Jim and Jim's drilling holes back in the guy's head. He's laughing! "Do IT!!!"
Sweaty crazy guy's veins are popping and finally he just kind of deflates and shakes his head and says....."You're crazy. You - are - f--k--g - crazy....." and leaves. His buds follow.
Jim just started laughing and everyone just went "Whewwww......" and took a breath. Didn't phase Jim at all. He had a few choice words and noted that "Greater is He that's in me than whoever's in that foot-h--e!!"
Jim was a lot of things to a lot of people and that's why - if that was the only time like that it would be one thing but it wasn't by a long shot. When push came to shove and it was time to lay 'em down on the line he was ready to go, right now. He truly had "faith".
"Do it".
The whole deal with Jim E and VPW spoke to a whole side of Jim that probably represents his strongest and weakest points. We all have them and so did he and he made his choices. There weren't many like him and not many like him even today. Like I said, he knew whereof he spoke.
Socks, awesome stories man. Puts me right there - would have love to have been there. Jimmy must have been quite the man - never had the pleasure.
The whole deal with Jim E and VPW spoke to a whole side of Jim that probably represents his strongest and weakest points. We all have them and so did he and he made his choices. There weren't many like him and not many like him even today. Like I said, he knew whereof he spoke.
dear sockstonian
this intrigues me -- i'm not sure if you can answer -- but i'll put it out there
many people, i believe, feel this way about vpw, but for some reason i can't put him and jimmy into the same category
i'm sure it's because veepee hurt me greatly, but jim never did -- and i only knew him in his later days via phone
does that mean i'm missing something when it comes to strongest and weakest points?
some people think veepee was a great man of god, some people think jim was
should i go on? or do you understand what i don't understand?
thank you
--
maybe i should add that adultery and spiritual abuse -- to me -- are at different ends of the pole
i'm sure that will get me no points anywhere but i know what i mean
Dunno, exaltation. I wouldn't compare the two either, although there probably are comparisons to be made. And I'd agree, Jim wouldn't have had it in him to deliberately hurt someone, least not the years I knew him. I've heard from others closer to him in later years he struggled with his life, illness, other things, I can't speak to those things of course because the Jim I knew goes back many years, and at his best, was a good man. Yet he was very human in his faults and failings and did let others down at times. The one of us who can say they haven't or won't is free to step forward and take the Throne.
Jim and choices - far be it from me to second guess now why and how he came to the decisions he did. As with the "Way West" - Had he told VPW to "F-K OFF!!!" I doubt many would have argued with him. The night of the infamous "meeting" was something he could have very well avoided had he done that the week before, had he confided openly with others across the state. He certainly wasn't muscled out of his ministry by anyone - VPW, Howard, Del or anyone else. He was more than capable of standing anyone down at eye level. I know he was concerned about his family and keeping some semblance of peace. He wasn't a fighter in any sense of the word but he was impossible to knock down if he didn't want to go down. I have immense regard for his memory, no secret there.
To add: whatever anyone thinks of the Way and VPW, good or bad, in Jim's case his involvement later when he came back in in the mid-70's wasn't a good thing in the long run. It just never squared up right and by the time he went up to Maine, things changed. I really didn't understand him at that point and won't pretend to now.
The best way I could place his memory is that he sought a higher calling, a greater good, one that while he may not have lived up to (who does?) he gloried in the reality he knew was true, in his heart. That more than anything I believe rubbed off on those who had the opportunity to know him. A part of me is what it is because of him and his influence on me all those years ago, so I remember it - dunno, as if it were today because it is.
I don't deal today in the currency of "men of God" or "great men of God" and all of that so I can't speak in those terms - it's a phrase the carries too much baggage. To the degree anyone is great for God, I'll let that judgment come from Him.
I mostly lurk, but had to come out of "hiding" to ask a couple of questions ... I'm curious ... had not heard about Donna having a brain tumor, and was curious about mention of two of Donna's children (I am presuming the poster spoke of Timothy and Leah, in that order, in his post), but what about Dororthy Grace? I think she is away at college, isn't she?
I was in The Way for 23.5 years ... still have some curiosity about what's going on there.
I mostly lurk, but had to come out of "hiding" to ask a couple of questions ... I'm curious ... had not heard about Donna having a brain tumor, and was curious about mention of two of Donna's children (I am presuming the poster spoke of Timothy and Leah, in that order, in his post), but what about Dororthy Grace? I think she is away at college, isn't she?
I was in The Way for 23.5 years ... still have some curiosity about what's going on there.
Ya - 3 kids and the youngest is college age by now.
Dunno, exaltation. I wouldn't compare the two either, although there probably are comparisons to be made. And I'd agree, Jim wouldn't have had it in him to deliberately hurt someone, least not the years I knew him. I've heard from others closer to him in later years he struggled with his life, illness, other things, I can't speak to those things of course because the Jim I knew goes back many years, and at his best, was a good man. Yet he was very human in his faults and failings and did let others down at times. The one of us who can say they haven't or won't is free to step forward and take the Throne.
Jim and choices - far be it from me to second guess now why and how he came to the decisions he did. As with the "Way West" - Had he told VPW to "F-K OFF!!!" I doubt many would have argued with him. The night of the infamous "meeting" was something he could have very well avoided had he done that the week before, had he confided openly with others across the state. He certainly wasn't muscled out of his ministry by anyone - VPW, Howard, Del or anyone else. He was more than capable of standing anyone down at eye level. I know he was concerned about his family and keeping some semblance of peace. He wasn't a fighter in any sense of the word but he was impossible to knock down if he didn't want to go down. I have immense regard for his memory, no secret there.
To add: whatever anyone thinks of the Way and VPW, good or bad, in Jim's case his involvement later when he came back in in the mid-70's wasn't a good thing in the long run. It just never squared up right and by the time he went up to Maine, things changed. I really didn't understand him at that point and won't pretend to now.
The best way I could place his memory is that he sought a higher calling, a greater good, one that while he may not have lived up to (who does?) he gloried in the reality he knew was true, in his heart. That more than anything I believe rubbed off on those who had the opportunity to know him. A part of me is what it is because of him and his influence on me all those years ago, so I remember it - dunno, as if it were today because it is.
I don't deal today in the currency of "men of God" or "great men of God" and all of that so I can't speak in those terms - it's a phrase the carries too much baggage. To the degree anyone is great for God, I'll let that judgment come from Him.
many thanks, socksmeister
even in his dying days his thoughts were with his family
he was very meek and guilt-ridden if that is the word
his humility no matter how hard i tried to argue with him was astounding
i really love him
good man no doubt
(i'm sorry to say, if i had ever said to vpw what i said to jim, i would have been blown off the earth)
I'm sure it meant a great deal to him that you confided in him and trusted in him. The trust that others invest in us helps us to define ourselves as we become the one worthy of that trust. You gave him a gift that was powerful, perhaps more than you knew at the time.
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What About It
My sentiments exactly!
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excathedra
i absolutely appreciate your posts copenhagen and the truth facts whatever of them
and socks
thanks for that
--
and linder ? where the f did he come from ?
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Ham
Maybe the question should be.. which rock was picked up first, when he made his appearance?
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socks
You're welcome, xcelta. You know, Jim performed the wedding ceremony for the wif' and I. I think it was the 2nd or 3rd he'd done and only the second in our collective Northern Cal fellowship.
Donna - met her shortly after she came to the Hayward, CA fellowship of Pat and Nancy C. Nice, outgoing. Easy on the eyes as they say and always easy to be around. Passionate but reasonable with others.
Linder - never met him, don't know him or anything about him.
Shouting matches - this reminded me of a completely off topic event that occurred years ago with Jim, Classic Doop - you'll get a kick out of it. ( I may have told it before so excuse me if I did - old and all) Cookin' M ama was playing at the Lion S hare in Marin, CA. We played there a lot, and this was early on when both Jim and Steve were a team, the ol' Frick 'n' Frack of memory (for those who do remember) Fellowships were growing all over the Bay Area and lots of people in Alameda with Howie and the gang where we were from. There was this local character a lot of people knew, pretty rough character, took it upon himself to tattoo upside down crosses on his hands and his usual weirdness got focused on the Wayfers in the city for awhile. He showed up one night with a couple of buds at the club and during our break was in the back giving Paul H, who played sax, a boat load of grief. He knew Paul and he was doing a real number on him and everybody within earshot. Paul was trying to talk him down. We were all in the back stage area, off the parking lot, and Jim and Steve were there and this guy starts giving Jim some s--t, making fun of him. "Who are you? Who do you think you are? Jesus?" That kind of stuff.
Jim - tall and skinny, the big 'stache, smoking his cigarette and this other guy are kind of squaring off. The guy was huge, and definitely intimidating just walking around let alone carrying on like he was. The 'Share had a couple of big guys that worked there, but this was a place where it was very uncool to act like that so they were kind of checking in on us but probably assumed it would cool off on it's own and left. It didn't. So Steve's off to the side leaning against the wall, brim low just watching and we're thinking if this doesn't simmer down it's going to go south quick. The guy's yelling and swearing at Jim and Jim finally looks him straight in the eye and goes "PHFFFFT! F--k OFF!!!"
The nut case stops for a second like he can't believe it - "What did you say to me?" Jim takes a hit off his cigarette and blows smoke at the guy and says "You heard me! FU-UK OFF!!!"
The noise nut kinda pulls himself together, his bud's are drawing in close and I'm thinking this could get very weird - 3 of them in a small space and they do this for a hobby and think it's fun to bust heads. There's about 8 of us but this is about the last thing anybody wants to do during our break from the first set - get into a bloody fight and then go start playing for 45", right? And I can't believe Jim's just standing there, puffing away and smiling that big smile of his like he's playing cards and has 2 aces in his hand and one showing.
Boiled brain guy sticks a fist out and says "You know what I could do to you right now? I'm gonna rip your f--k-g head off!!!!" And Jim leans over and I swear this is true - he blows smoke at the guy and says "Do it!"
It's quiet for a sec' and the guy's just staring at Jim and Jim's drilling holes back in the guy's head. He's laughing! "Do IT!!!"
Sweaty crazy guy's veins are popping and finally he just kind of deflates and shakes his head and says....."You're crazy. You - are - f--k--g - crazy....." and leaves. His buds follow.
Jim just started laughing and everyone just went "Whewwww......" and took a breath. Didn't phase Jim at all. He had a few choice words and noted that "Greater is He that's in me than whoever's in that foot-h--e!!"
Jim was a lot of things to a lot of people and that's why - if that was the only time like that it would be one thing but it wasn't by a long shot. When push came to shove and it was time to lay 'em down on the line he was ready to go, right now. He truly had "faith".
"Do it".
The whole deal with Jim E and VPW spoke to a whole side of Jim that probably represents his strongest and weakest points. We all have them and so did he and he made his choices. There weren't many like him and not many like him even today. Like I said, he knew whereof he spoke.
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OldSkool
Really, my experiences with Donna was that she is a cold, calculating individual who has sold her soul (so to speak) in order to run the way international. She has no genuine concern for people. What concern she once had has been replaced with thinking she is caring for people by proxy through ministry decisions that are "best" for others. The benevolent dictator comes to mind. She knows what is best for you and if you give it time you will see the wisdom in hindsight. Really, I think she has ice water in her veins.
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Nottawayfer
Benevolent dictator? That sounds like an oxymoron to me!
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OldSkool
ya...lol! Maybe we just call her dick-tater.
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Bolshevik
That's what some say about Tom Brady . . . again we see . . . the football is the key . . .
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OldSkool
http://www.futurememories.com/tri-c10b31anr.html
And the way international paid $29,000 for their football...oh and some lamo infomercial that MSNBC axed because they discovered they had promoted an abusive cult...
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chockfull
We really need a new stock image for "Your ABS at Work!!!!".
$29,000
Your ABS at Work!!!
Socks, awesome stories man. Puts me right there - would have love to have been there. Jimmy must have been quite the man - never had the pleasure.
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excathedra
dear sockstonian
this intrigues me -- i'm not sure if you can answer -- but i'll put it out there
many people, i believe, feel this way about vpw, but for some reason i can't put him and jimmy into the same category
i'm sure it's because veepee hurt me greatly, but jim never did -- and i only knew him in his later days via phone
does that mean i'm missing something when it comes to strongest and weakest points?
some people think veepee was a great man of god, some people think jim was
should i go on? or do you understand what i don't understand?
thank you
--
maybe i should add that adultery and spiritual abuse -- to me -- are at different ends of the pole
i'm sure that will get me no points anywhere but i know what i mean
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Ham
I dunno..
I think it's because jim never WOULD..
does that make sense?
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excathedra
it makes sense to me
see, to me, people who use the bible to hurt people are different than people who are weak and have hearts
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leafytwiglet
The difference between VP and Jim FDoop is oobviously that Doop really chose to live with God's word
VP just told stroies about other peoples experiences and told them like they were his own experiences. I would rather walk witha Jim Doop
Than a VP..
excellent story Socks!
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socks
Dunno, exaltation. I wouldn't compare the two either, although there probably are comparisons to be made. And I'd agree, Jim wouldn't have had it in him to deliberately hurt someone, least not the years I knew him. I've heard from others closer to him in later years he struggled with his life, illness, other things, I can't speak to those things of course because the Jim I knew goes back many years, and at his best, was a good man. Yet he was very human in his faults and failings and did let others down at times. The one of us who can say they haven't or won't is free to step forward and take the Throne.
Jim and choices - far be it from me to second guess now why and how he came to the decisions he did. As with the "Way West" - Had he told VPW to "F-K OFF!!!" I doubt many would have argued with him. The night of the infamous "meeting" was something he could have very well avoided had he done that the week before, had he confided openly with others across the state. He certainly wasn't muscled out of his ministry by anyone - VPW, Howard, Del or anyone else. He was more than capable of standing anyone down at eye level. I know he was concerned about his family and keeping some semblance of peace. He wasn't a fighter in any sense of the word but he was impossible to knock down if he didn't want to go down. I have immense regard for his memory, no secret there.
To add: whatever anyone thinks of the Way and VPW, good or bad, in Jim's case his involvement later when he came back in in the mid-70's wasn't a good thing in the long run. It just never squared up right and by the time he went up to Maine, things changed. I really didn't understand him at that point and won't pretend to now.
The best way I could place his memory is that he sought a higher calling, a greater good, one that while he may not have lived up to (who does?) he gloried in the reality he knew was true, in his heart. That more than anything I believe rubbed off on those who had the opportunity to know him. A part of me is what it is because of him and his influence on me all those years ago, so I remember it - dunno, as if it were today because it is.
I don't deal today in the currency of "men of God" or "great men of God" and all of that so I can't speak in those terms - it's a phrase the carries too much baggage. To the degree anyone is great for God, I'll let that judgment come from Him.
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DogLover
I mostly lurk, but had to come out of "hiding" to ask a couple of questions ... I'm curious ... had not heard about Donna having a brain tumor, and was curious about mention of two of Donna's children (I am presuming the poster spoke of Timothy and Leah, in that order, in his post), but what about Dororthy Grace? I think she is away at college, isn't she?
I was in The Way for 23.5 years ... still have some curiosity about what's going on there.
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OldSkool
Ya - 3 kids and the youngest is college age by now.
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excathedra
many thanks, socksmeister
even in his dying days his thoughts were with his family
he was very meek and guilt-ridden if that is the word
his humility no matter how hard i tried to argue with him was astounding
i really love him
good man no doubt
(i'm sorry to say, if i had ever said to vpw what i said to jim, i would have been blown off the earth)
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socks
I'm sure it meant a great deal to him that you confided in him and trusted in him. The trust that others invest in us helps us to define ourselves as we become the one worthy of that trust. You gave him a gift that was powerful, perhaps more than you knew at the time.
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excathedra
i felt it was the other way around perhaps
but i thank you for that sockslove more than i can tell you
we are fragile human beings i think
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