another buncha crap. my "earthly" (as opposed to celestial) family has been there for me through everything even when i gave them up for twi, etc., etc.
another buncha crap. my "earthly" (as opposed to celestial) family has been there for me through everything even when i gave them up for twi, etc., etc.
another buncha crap. my "earthly" (as opposed to celestial) family has been there for me through everything even when i gave them up for twi, etc., etc.
You betcha, I agree 200%..
Course even if you believe in evolution, we all did come from the same bloodline.. Whether Adam or the ape.. So we are all the same family, so to speak.
Course, I would never trade my immediate family for their fake one..
Agree with everyone, 100% and more. I think it's another technique the way uses to isolate people from any ties whatsoever outside of the way so that people become so entrenched in the ministry that they almost cannot leave it. Some of us on GSC were in that group for 20+ and maybe even 30+ years. How hard was it to leave? My husband and I considered it for a long time before we actually took the plunge and left. And that was only the beginning of the cult-recovery process, because we believed the $h!t like this: spiritual family has stronger ties than earthly family. Trust me on this: your earthly family will be there for you much longer than your spiritual family of twi if you happen to think for yourself or, God forbid, have a differing opinion. In most circles, that's a healthy thing: it's called debate and it spurs productive thought. Not in the so-called spiritual family of twi, where everyone must think the same thing.
One of my siblings and I were talking about this very thing last night. I "marked and avoided" my family for five years after they were kicked out of the WC because I believed the lies Mosquito told me (he was on the phone with my LC the MOMENT he had them pack up their stuff and leave, and my LC was on the phone with me IMMEDIATELY after - they missed my parent's call to me by SECONDS... How is that for trying to break up a family??) They never specifially told me to M&A my family, but it was encouraged, and I remember having meetings with my LC where he told me that it would be "best" to limit my contact with them because it was effecting me spiritually.
Prior to this in preparation for inresidentured training as WC, my parents kicked my 16 year old brother out for being "rebellious"... kicked out as in threw him out on the street with NOTHING but the clothes on his back. He lived under a bridge for a while before he took up dealiing drugs to make enough money to live - because no one would hire a 16 year old at a legitimate job without an address or parents' permission. He is still recovering from that.
Well, it has been seven years since I reconciled with my family, and three years since I left TWI. My family is still effected by the whole situation - they keep major life events secret until they absolutely have to tell someone else (major life event like marriage, divorce, "I'm going overseas for the next six months and you can't contact me", major across country moves, etc.) The entire family is disconnected. We do love each other, and I have one brother I am very close with now, and for that I am thankful. But when you compare that to my husband's family (and according to TWI, we should NEVER compare!) my family is a tattered mess. See, my husband's family was never in TWI.... there is nothing more important to them than family - and that includes in-laws like me! Our child plays with her second and third cousins on a monthly if not weekly basis. FAMILY.... EARTHLY FAMILY is more important than any religious group.
And if any religious group tries to break up families, they have nothing to do with God.
And if any religious group tries to put down the importance of the family to GOD, then God is not in them,
GOD loves us - he is our Father (in Christian religions) and our Mother (in other religions)... God is the Ultimate Parent, the Designer of families. To try and pull those bonds apart that God built into our DNA is evil.
Then they cite a couple of isolated records that they wrest out of context. "Jesus came to bring a sword between families" "Let the city bury the dead" is another used to mean let the community care for your old parents.
Great points on the Wierwille / Kipp double standard. They make themselves sound as if they are some second rate "Christ line."
If "spirit" is thicker than blood how come they are so quick to boot people to the curb?
D@mn - that rhymed, for a moment I was a poet and didn't know it.
Oftentimes people were chastised for showing regard towards their families...I recall a "wow" gal that was told if she attended her sister's wedding, she would be booted from the wow field. She missed the wedding and caused great hurt within her family.
Produces harmony in the home?
...they expected us to turn our backs on our families but yet they showed zero loyalty to us in return.
People were summarily booted as if they were no more than employees that could be replaced without a second thought...spiritual family? Instead of "celebrating" at the roa, we should have marched upon them like the torch carrying villagers in a Frankenstein movie.
...and when Wierwille croaked, these "top leaders" showed their true colors as they bit and devoured each other trying to grab power from each other.I've seen corporate officers with more compassion.
I heard from a coworker today that she is giving her oldest daughter who has behavioral problems to a Christian home to be raised for a year - she will get counselling and help to overcome a lot of difficulties in her life from her mom's two failed marriages and being rejected by her father. It broke my heart. She won't be able to even have a phone conversation with her mom for 30 days. As a parent, this would kill me.
Maybe it's because I was separated from my family for so long (even though I was an adult, it was horrible)... I can't imagine being separated from my child like that! I suppose a lot of my concern in this category is caused by my experience in TWI. Maybe I will become too clingy to my kids in response. I hope not.
I heard from a coworker today that she is giving her oldest daughter who has behavioral problems to a Christian home to be raised for a year - she will get counselling and help to overcome a lot of difficulties in her life from her mom's two failed marriages and being rejected by her father. It broke my heart. She won't be able to even have a phone conversation with her mom for 30 days. As a parent, this would kill me.
Maybe it's because I was separated from my family for so long (even though I was an adult, it was horrible)... I can't imagine being separated from my child like that! I suppose a lot of my concern in this category is caused by my experience in TWI. Maybe I will become too clingy to my kids in response. I hope not.
Maybe her results will be different. My cousin did that after her daughter was raped at 14 and became pregnant and gave up the baby. The daughter became difficult to deal with, so she was sent to live with another family. Tragically, my cousin's daughter was found dead of asphyxiation. She had put a plastic bag over her head.
One of my siblings and I were talking about this very thing last night. I "marked and avoided" my family for five years after they were kicked out of the WC because I believed the lies Mosquito told me (he was on the phone with my LC the MOMENT he had them pack up their stuff and leave, and my LC was on the phone with me IMMEDIATELY after - they missed my parent's call to me by SECONDS... How is that for trying to break up a family??) They never specifially told me to M&A my family, but it was encouraged, and I remember having meetings with my LC where he told me that it would be "best" to limit my contact with them because it was effecting me spiritually.
Prior to this in preparation for inresidentured training as WC, my parents kicked my 16 year old brother out for being "rebellious"... kicked out as in threw him out on the street with NOTHING but the clothes on his back. He lived under a bridge for a while before he took up dealiing drugs to make enough money to live - because no one would hire a 16 year old at a legitimate job without an address or parents' permission. He is still recovering from that.
Well, it has been seven years since I reconciled with my family, and three years since I left TWI. My family is still effected by the whole situation - they keep major life events secret until they absolutely have to tell someone else (major life event like marriage, divorce, "I'm going overseas for the next six months and you can't contact me", major across country moves, etc.) The entire family is disconnected. We do love each other, and I have one brother I am very close with now, and for that I am thankful. But when you compare that to my husband's family (and according to TWI, we should NEVER compare!) my family is a tattered mess. See, my husband's family was never in TWI.... there is nothing more important to them than family - and that includes in-laws like me! Our child plays with her second and third cousins on a monthly if not weekly basis. FAMILY.... EARTHLY FAMILY is more important than any religious group.
And if any religious group tries to break up families, they have nothing to do with God.
And if any religious group tries to put down the importance of the family to GOD, then God is not in them,
GOD loves us - he is our Father (in Christian religions) and our Mother (in other religions)... God is the Ultimate Parent, the Designer of families. To try and pull those bonds apart that God built into our DNA is evil.
When West Nile Virus himself was expected to M&A his own kid-he suddenly no longer agreed with twi and left. Wonder if he has any remorse for how he treated other people and their families.
java, how is your 16-year-old brother today? oh man what a heartbreak
I would love to say that my brother has shaken it all off and is living a successful happy life. But I can't say that. He has been in and out of rehab and prison for most of his adult life, but has remained sober for over two years now and is going to back to college for his degree - that is good. He did manage to graduate high school on his own after he was kicked out. He is a good guy with a good heart, but he has an addiction problem which stems from what happened when he was a teenager. I think twi can be at least partially to blame for what happened to him.
Btw, exie - crazy clip!!! Did I see Donna in one bit of footage??
I would love to say that my brother has shaken it all off and is living a successful happy life. But I can't say that. He has been in and out of rehab and prison for most of his adult life, but has remained sober for over two years now and is going to back to college for his degree - that is good. He did manage to graduate high school on his own after he was kicked out. He is a good guy with a good heart, but he has an addiction problem which stems from what happened when he was a teenager. I think twi can be at least partially to blame for what happened to him.
Wow, that really hurts my heart for him. But good for him he has stayed sober for two years. Are your parents able to help him now? I can't imagine the guilt they must have gone through over this.
I know a lot of families that are a tattered mess because of twi. I'm sorry yours was one of them. But even so, as you said, you do love each other and that will help.
I personally knew one person given the responsibility of working on Wierwille's family history, and he was part of a team. Now was that a wise use of Abundant Sharing money or what?
Remember them reading A Day with the Wierwille's at Corps week?. They made thousands of us sit for hours in a tent and listen to a time when the Wierwille's all got together as a family and played in the snow at Gunnison. People, some with small kids, drove thousands of miles, spent days on the road, spent hundreds of dollars, sacrificed vacations, quit jobs etc. to sit around on a farm in humid Ohio and hear about VP meeting with his family. (Well, at least there were pictures.) If you were there, do you remember the great concluding statement, the great point of the whole story? Go get your barf bucket and I'll remind you. It was this: "If the Wierwille family does not stand together on The Word, the Word of God will not live in our day and time." Yessir, that was it! Our job as Corps was to take care of the Wierwille family. Not to herald the Word of God, but to take care of a "bless-ed holy family". That was the only way the Word was going to live, at least that was the implication. I was headed into my final year in residence then. I vividly remember walking across that bridge on Wierwille Rd. and being heartbroken. I couldn't believe what I'd just heard. There was no question it was a lie. But I was Corps which meant I believed VP was the Man of God which meant he didn't lie. I know now that I was starting to see that there was a serious flaw in the whole thing. I sort of just put the thing on the back burner. No one talked about it. At least not where I was present.
Meanwhile, everyone else's family line was completely irrelevant.
I personally knew one person given the responsibility of working on Wierwille's family history, and he was part of a team. Now was that a wise use of Abundant Sharing money or what?
Go get your barf bucket and I'll remind you. It was this: "If the Wierwille family does not stand, the Word of God will not live in our day and time." Yessir, that was it! Our job as Corps was to take care of the Wierwille family. Not to herald the Word of God, but to take care of a "bless-ed holy family". That was the only way the Word was going to live, at least that was the implication.
I should have listened to you and got the barf bucket first. Two questions:
Are there any family members "still standing?" Most of his kids and families seem to have distanced themselves decades ago.
What about the special prophesy he had about the one grandson? Did he ever do anything? Wasn't he supposed to be "the one"?
Wow, that really hurts my heart for him. But good for him he has stayed sober for two years. Are your parents able to help him now? I can't imagine the guilt they must have gone through over this.
I know a lot of families that are a tattered mess because of twi. I'm sorry yours was one of them. But even so, as you said, you do love each other and that will help.
My parents are still wracked with guilt over what happened to him. I still have slot of guilt for marking and avoiding my family, too, even though it was years ago and they have forgiven me. Just knowing you are capable of doing something so heartless to people who love you messes with your mind!
I had one friend who helped me a lot with this, though. I had told her that I was afraid that I could abandon my child at some point because I had abandoned my family (I was not yet a parent at this point) - my friend told me that I would be the last person she would expect to do that because I knew what it felt like to abandon those you love. She's absolutely right. It will never ever happen to me again!
My parents are still wracked with guilt over what happened to him. I still have slot of guilt for marking and avoiding my family, too, even though it was years ago and they have forgiven me. Just knowing you are capable of doing something so heartless to people who love you messes with your mind!
I had one friend who helped me a lot with this, though. I had told her that I was afraid that I could abandon my child at some point because I had abandoned my family (I was not yet a parent at this point) - my friend told me that I would be the last person she would expect to do that because I knew what it felt like to abandon those you love. She's absolutely right. It will never ever happen to me again!
A lesson hard learned. I think she is right. There is no way it will happen again because you do really know.
I didn't do it to my family, but I let go of really good friends who would have been better for me if I had stuck with them instead. But I chose the whackos.
I see now they had been true friends to me. Don't completely know why I didn't see it then. But I treasure the true frinds I have now and I know I'll never make that mistake again either.
It's not too late for your brother. It takes a lot of strength and determination to stay sober for two years. That really does say a lot about him. He probably will end up having a succesful life and be able to give the compassion he was denied. It just takes time to heal first.
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chockfull
With a family like TWI, who needs dysfunction?
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OldSkool
Great points on the Wierwille / Kipp double standard. They make themselves sound as if they are some second rate "Christ line."
If "spirit" is thicker than blood how come they are so quick to boot people to the curb?
D@mn - that rhymed, for a moment I was a poet and didn't know it.
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excathedra
another buncha crap. my "earthly" (as opposed to celestial) family has been there for me through everything even when i gave them up for twi, etc., etc.
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OldSkool
Same here.
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Human without the bean
:blink: But your feet showed it their long fellows. My guess size 16.
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TrustAndObey
You betcha, I agree 200%..
Course even if you believe in evolution, we all did come from the same bloodline.. Whether Adam or the ape.. So we are all the same family, so to speak.
Course, I would never trade my immediate family for their fake one..
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What About It
Agree with everyone, 100% and more. I think it's another technique the way uses to isolate people from any ties whatsoever outside of the way so that people become so entrenched in the ministry that they almost cannot leave it. Some of us on GSC were in that group for 20+ and maybe even 30+ years. How hard was it to leave? My husband and I considered it for a long time before we actually took the plunge and left. And that was only the beginning of the cult-recovery process, because we believed the $h!t like this: spiritual family has stronger ties than earthly family. Trust me on this: your earthly family will be there for you much longer than your spiritual family of twi if you happen to think for yourself or, God forbid, have a differing opinion. In most circles, that's a healthy thing: it's called debate and it spurs productive thought. Not in the so-called spiritual family of twi, where everyone must think the same thing.
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JavaJane
One of my siblings and I were talking about this very thing last night. I "marked and avoided" my family for five years after they were kicked out of the WC because I believed the lies Mosquito told me (he was on the phone with my LC the MOMENT he had them pack up their stuff and leave, and my LC was on the phone with me IMMEDIATELY after - they missed my parent's call to me by SECONDS... How is that for trying to break up a family??) They never specifially told me to M&A my family, but it was encouraged, and I remember having meetings with my LC where he told me that it would be "best" to limit my contact with them because it was effecting me spiritually.
Prior to this in preparation for inresidentured training as WC, my parents kicked my 16 year old brother out for being "rebellious"... kicked out as in threw him out on the street with NOTHING but the clothes on his back. He lived under a bridge for a while before he took up dealiing drugs to make enough money to live - because no one would hire a 16 year old at a legitimate job without an address or parents' permission. He is still recovering from that.
Well, it has been seven years since I reconciled with my family, and three years since I left TWI. My family is still effected by the whole situation - they keep major life events secret until they absolutely have to tell someone else (major life event like marriage, divorce, "I'm going overseas for the next six months and you can't contact me", major across country moves, etc.) The entire family is disconnected. We do love each other, and I have one brother I am very close with now, and for that I am thankful. But when you compare that to my husband's family (and according to TWI, we should NEVER compare!) my family is a tattered mess. See, my husband's family was never in TWI.... there is nothing more important to them than family - and that includes in-laws like me! Our child plays with her second and third cousins on a monthly if not weekly basis. FAMILY.... EARTHLY FAMILY is more important than any religious group.
And if any religious group tries to break up families, they have nothing to do with God.
And if any religious group tries to put down the importance of the family to GOD, then God is not in them,
GOD loves us - he is our Father (in Christian religions) and our Mother (in other religions)... God is the Ultimate Parent, the Designer of families. To try and pull those bonds apart that God built into our DNA is evil.
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OldSkool
Well said JJ!
Then they cite a couple of isolated records that they wrest out of context. "Jesus came to bring a sword between families" "Let the city bury the dead" is another used to mean let the community care for your old parents.
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GrouchoMarxJr
Oftentimes people were chastised for showing regard towards their families...I recall a "wow" gal that was told if she attended her sister's wedding, she would be booted from the wow field. She missed the wedding and caused great hurt within her family.
Produces harmony in the home?
...they expected us to turn our backs on our families but yet they showed zero loyalty to us in return.
People were summarily booted as if they were no more than employees that could be replaced without a second thought...spiritual family? Instead of "celebrating" at the roa, we should have marched upon them like the torch carrying villagers in a Frankenstein movie.
...and when Wierwille croaked, these "top leaders" showed their true colors as they bit and devoured each other trying to grab power from each other.I've seen corporate officers with more compassion.
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JavaJane
I heard from a coworker today that she is giving her oldest daughter who has behavioral problems to a Christian home to be raised for a year - she will get counselling and help to overcome a lot of difficulties in her life from her mom's two failed marriages and being rejected by her father. It broke my heart. She won't be able to even have a phone conversation with her mom for 30 days. As a parent, this would kill me.
Maybe it's because I was separated from my family for so long (even though I was an adult, it was horrible)... I can't imagine being separated from my child like that! I suppose a lot of my concern in this category is caused by my experience in TWI. Maybe I will become too clingy to my kids in response. I hope not.
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Tzaia
Maybe her results will be different. My cousin did that after her daughter was raped at 14 and became pregnant and gave up the baby. The daughter became difficult to deal with, so she was sent to live with another family. Tragically, my cousin's daughter was found dead of asphyxiation. She had put a plastic bag over her head.
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100% Free
When West Nile Virus himself was expected to M&A his own kid-he suddenly no longer agreed with twi and left. Wonder if he has any remorse for how he treated other people and their families.
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excathedra
oh how sad all of this is
java, how is your 16-year-old brother today? oh man what a heartbreak
--
i don't who the virus is since there are so many who could fit the bill, but what goes around comes around i guess
--
when victor and dotsie would talk about leaving their baby for their trip to india or somewhere, i thought how very strange and horrible
also, when these azzzes compared it to the military, i was always thinking, well i didn't join the military
you know all that commitment crapola
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OldSkool
I know all too well and that it's a one way street. I commit to them they discard me when needed.
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excathedra
<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="
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waysider
Thanks, excie.
Good find!
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JavaJane
I would love to say that my brother has shaken it all off and is living a successful happy life. But I can't say that. He has been in and out of rehab and prison for most of his adult life, but has remained sober for over two years now and is going to back to college for his degree - that is good. He did manage to graduate high school on his own after he was kicked out. He is a good guy with a good heart, but he has an addiction problem which stems from what happened when he was a teenager. I think twi can be at least partially to blame for what happened to him.
Btw, exie - crazy clip!!! Did I see Donna in one bit of footage??
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100% Free
Wow, that really hurts my heart for him. But good for him he has stayed sober for two years. Are your parents able to help him now? I can't imagine the guilt they must have gone through over this.
I know a lot of families that are a tattered mess because of twi. I'm sorry yours was one of them. But even so, as you said, you do love each other and that will help.
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Broken Arrow
I personally knew one person given the responsibility of working on Wierwille's family history, and he was part of a team. Now was that a wise use of Abundant Sharing money or what?
Remember them reading A Day with the Wierwille's at Corps week?. They made thousands of us sit for hours in a tent and listen to a time when the Wierwille's all got together as a family and played in the snow at Gunnison. People, some with small kids, drove thousands of miles, spent days on the road, spent hundreds of dollars, sacrificed vacations, quit jobs etc. to sit around on a farm in humid Ohio and hear about VP meeting with his family. (Well, at least there were pictures.) If you were there, do you remember the great concluding statement, the great point of the whole story? Go get your barf bucket and I'll remind you. It was this: "If the Wierwille family does not stand together on The Word, the Word of God will not live in our day and time." Yessir, that was it! Our job as Corps was to take care of the Wierwille family. Not to herald the Word of God, but to take care of a "bless-ed holy family". That was the only way the Word was going to live, at least that was the implication. I was headed into my final year in residence then. I vividly remember walking across that bridge on Wierwille Rd. and being heartbroken. I couldn't believe what I'd just heard. There was no question it was a lie. But I was Corps which meant I believed VP was the Man of God which meant he didn't lie. I know now that I was starting to see that there was a serious flaw in the whole thing. I sort of just put the thing on the back burner. No one talked about it. At least not where I was present.
Meanwhile, everyone else's family line was completely irrelevant.
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100% Free
I should have listened to you and got the barf bucket first. Two questions:
Are there any family members "still standing?" Most of his kids and families seem to have distanced themselves decades ago.
What about the special prophesy he had about the one grandson? Did he ever do anything? Wasn't he supposed to be "the one"?
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JavaJane
My parents are still wracked with guilt over what happened to him. I still have slot of guilt for marking and avoiding my family, too, even though it was years ago and they have forgiven me. Just knowing you are capable of doing something so heartless to people who love you messes with your mind!
I had one friend who helped me a lot with this, though. I had told her that I was afraid that I could abandon my child at some point because I had abandoned my family (I was not yet a parent at this point) - my friend told me that I would be the last person she would expect to do that because I knew what it felt like to abandon those you love. She's absolutely right. It will never ever happen to me again!
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100% Free
A lesson hard learned. I think she is right. There is no way it will happen again because you do really know.
I didn't do it to my family, but I let go of really good friends who would have been better for me if I had stuck with them instead. But I chose the whackos.
I see now they had been true friends to me. Don't completely know why I didn't see it then. But I treasure the true frinds I have now and I know I'll never make that mistake again either.
It's not too late for your brother. It takes a lot of strength and determination to stay sober for two years. That really does say a lot about him. He probably will end up having a succesful life and be able to give the compassion he was denied. It just takes time to heal first.
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skyrider
When you say "still standing"......you mean "still standing in lockstep with twi" right?
None of wierwille's five kids are in twi.
Don -- died at age 60, in 2000.
M@ry -- not involved since the early 70s (?)
K@ren - not involved, except help to edit Mrs. W's book in 1995.
J.P. - affiliates with CFF, the "half-sister of twi"
S@ra - on staff at CFF
The special prophesy of grandson Luke Som3rv1lle....totally bogus.
It was all hushed over and not spoken in public again.
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