Once again, this is only my opinion... Take it or leave it.
Out of the three presidents of twi, the only one who personally harmed me and convinced me to do things I am still ashamed of and regret (marking and avoiding my family for five years) was LCM. Rosalie, although instrumental in my decision to leave twi, never hurt me personally. I have no personal anger directed at her, just general anger at twi and all cults. I post what I post here in effort to help others the way the posters at GSC helped me - by exposing the truths about twi and how it ruins lives, breaks up families, and is rotten from the source.
That being said, I have labeled Craig as simply duped by Weirwille. I actually have forgiven him for what happened with my family being torn apart. He was still wrong, his actions evil, but he was duped into thinking he was doing right.
I do not do the same in excusing Rosalie, because I think her motives differ. I believe she knows she does wrong and has selfish motivations. She is an adept liar and a master manipulator who learned her tricks from VP, the charlatan himself. She knows how to hide her motives behind a sweet mask.
I do not think this because it is easier for me to do so. For me (and everyone is different) it is harder to see that I was just plain old taken in by the con of an evil boring old woman. That it wasn't that they ACTUALLY had SOME heart for doing good and serving God means that I just fell for a blatant lie. All the good I thoughti saw, all the things that impressed me were just part of the mindf*@& they intentionally gave me... And I was eager to take the hook, to put myself in their power, to be a slave... It's hard to admit that I was had - not by someone who cared, or who was mistaken - but by a regular old con artist.
But once again, just my opinion. And a lot of you worked with her on a daily basis, unlike me!
Interesting remark earlier about how predators escalate, too!
You just don't get as high up in an organization as they did without knowing the true score. Wierwille was a poser from the very inception of his little religious scam.
My guess is many of use were hurt by the system they promote. It's just easier to see them with fangs sometimes. Personally, I would rather think they are doing what they do on purpose. Guess this is something we can only speculate about. Personally, I don't see how they can do what they do - but I really think they are past feeling.
Rare is the person who openly admits they screwed up - particularly when they took a lot of people along for the ride.
Well, it's been good dialog. Frau never struck me as being that smart. Educated yes, smart no. Is that a conundrum? Anyways. Suffice it to say no matter what they know they are utterly evil.
I don't give Craig Martinfail a pass. I know someone who spoke to him in the last few years. He doesn't believe he did anything wrong. That is the epitome of a conscience seared with a hot iron. He is a complete jack@$$ who knew what he was doing was wrong. He practiced error enough, he made it his doctrine.
Ironically, his very words "Practical error always leads to doctrinal error!!" helpe to led me outside the walls of TWI. I didn't trust the doctrine of adulterers anymore.
Having sat down and confronted her face to face for over an hour, I just don't know.. Maybe someday I'll upload the recording since I recorded my confrontations with Linder and the BOD so I could always listen back to why I left. But she kept ignoring every point I brought up and kept trying to say I lost the passion for truth..
Oh golly gosh, those'd be a good listen on GS Radio.
Did they know they were being recorded? If not, you probably couldn't upload. If they did know, it'd be good to hear.
Anyway, they were probably recording you - from stuff I've read on this board, they recorded everything.
Well, obviously I have a rather personal reason for not liking Rosalie, and it colors my views of her. Sure I believe she's deluded, I just don't see personal delusion as an excuse for evil. I don't care if the "sold out" years ago, or last week, because that doesn't make it all better, and they chose to be who they are. Conscience seared through? Sure. But even so, and even considering that, they walk without love towards people whom they decide to go after. They are devoid of compassion when they do so - and I don't really care how they justify themselves.
Oh, one other thing,... the kinder, gentler, Rosalie Administration,.... largely meant holding off a bit on being A$$es to people. For Rosalie, this took a hermitage of a sort, But can any of you that were close to Headquarters say that there was anything done, more than it was - to simply discontinue doing some things?
Oh, one other thing,... the kinder, gentler, Rosalie Administration,.... largely meant holding off a bit on being A$$es to people. For Rosalie, this took a hermitage of a sort, But can any of you that were close to Headquarters say that there was anything done, more than it was - to simply discontinue doing some things?
All that "being nice" was a show.. I remember after I had graduated Corps, one of my Corps brothers had brought an accusation against the coordinator (B01ch@k) because he thought he went overboard in things he said. Which honestly wasn't much different than what most of us heard, but this was personal (Actually it was more personal about his Corps "woman" he ended up marrying). Anyways, so the BOD get together in a private meeting with Bo1h@wk to figure out how to simmer my Corp bro down. It was probably the first I'd heard Rosalie actually having to tell our Corp Coordinator to apologize and to "let off" on the newbies being trained (That would have been you - OldSkool) for a few months. He was told to "be personal" and "kind" and then after a few months he could return to his "usual". lol.. I just had to laugh when I heard that.. What a farce!
All that "being nice" was a show.. I remember after I had graduated Corps, one of my Corps brothers had brought an accusation against the coordinator (B01ch@k) because he thought he went overboard in things he said. Which honestly wasn't much different than what most of us heard, but this was personal (Actually it was more personal about his Corps "woman" he ended up marrying). Anyways, so the BOD get together in a private meeting with Bo1h@wk to figure out how to simmer my Corp bro down. It was probably the first I'd heard Rosalie actually having to tell our Corp Coordinator to apologize and to "let off" on the newbies being trained (That would have been you - OldSkool) for a few months. He was told to "be personal" and "kind" and then after a few months he could return to his "usual". lol.. I just had to laugh when I heard that.. What a farce!
Haha - put on the sheep's clothing for a few months so that the sheep don't get spooked by wolf-like behavior.
Oh, one other thing,... the kinder, gentler, Rosalie Administration,.... largely meant holding off a bit on being A$$es to people. For Rosalie, this took a hermitage of a sort, But can any of you that were close to Headquarters say that there was anything done, more than it was - to simply discontinue doing some things?
With her, this is just the facade, the front, the sugary sweet, North Carolina drawl, the act. Behind closed doors she plots acts of malicious destruction towards any who dare question her.
Is it kinder, gentler up front? Sure. You don't have a lunatic with a microphone and a tape subscription service broadcasting his lunacy.
But it's a facade. A counterfeit. Real Christianity is not kinder and gentler up front and vicious behind closed doors. Real Christianity is harmless as doves.
Right now I don't feel at all harmless. In fact I feel furious, miserable and aggressive. Been trying to get a job for ages, interview today, just got the No thanks call.
If that s0dding place had been honest in the first place, I would never have done what I did (enter the Corps) because that would have meant giving up on a career where I really thought I could help people, where people came to me for help. I thought I'd have been able to give them more help. But no - to return to one's profession is to return to vomit. Have to be sold out and work for the ministry.
Oh you didn't work hard enough. Let's just throw you out and rip all your self-confidence from you, any that was left. Oh, and as you do not pass go but do collect two hundred pounds of guilt and self-condemnation, we'll really push you down in the ditch;in fact, we will push you off a cliff into some deep sea so that you really can't get back on your feet. It's all your fault anyway.
Pah! Yes they knew they were manipulating people. They knew way before I ever entered; they knew whilst I was in rez, they know now.
And all the staff Corps know, even as they do menial jobs, yet they still encourage you to give up your good job and join them in meniality, sorry, the more abundant life.
:realmad: :realmad: and :mad2: :mad2: for good measure.
Thank God for Grease Spot. At least I now know that I know that I was manipulated and lied to.
I know how you feel. But just know that the true God, who we were praying to through all that mess, is faithful to restore the years that the worms have eaten. Unlike many, we've retained our integrity, despite the personal expense. Sometimes we need to change directions, reinvent ourselves in a fashion, change like with careers, social circles and such. But God is there with us to help with guidance, love, inspiration. And there's self-confidence and comfort in rebuilding.
In the famous words of Rob Schneider, established many times throughout Adam Sandler movies,
I know exactly how you feel. I just had a conversation about this with my husband this morning... we both gave up dreams, gave up successful carreers and money so that we could live this "more abundant life" to "serve" God in twi. And now we are starting over... and it takes a long time. My job pays the bills, but it isn't the six figure salary I would have had if I had stayed with my job and not gone Way Disciple. My husband's music career is on hold because he has problems playing due to twi crap.
But it does get better, and it will. God will provide.
Yeah, my head is right, and I'm so thankful. But the missing years in the CV don't disappear, and the experience that I should have gained doesn't miraculously appear. In my line of work, a break tends to be permanent.
I'm doing sideways shifts, looking at anything at all that might pay the bills. Like JJ, I won't ever get that big salary that I could have been earning, not that that was of major interest - but right now any salary would be of huge interest. Telling my mortgage lender and utilities suppliers that God will provide doesn't quite cut it with them :(.
(That would have been you - OldSkool) for a few months. He was told to "be personal" and "kind" and then after a few months he could return to his "usual". lol.. I just had to laugh when I heard that.. What a farce!
Pssst...Hey be nice for a few weeks then go back to being an a$$!! - priceless.
I'm doing sideways shifts, looking at anything at all that might pay the bills. Like JJ, I won't ever get that big salary that I could have been earning, not that that was of major interest - but right now any salary would be of huge interest. Telling my mortgage lender and utilities suppliers that God will provide doesn't quite cut it with them :(.
Yeah, in this economy, specialization is key over commodity, in specific areas that are favorable under supply and demand economics. If you find the right angle on this combining skills with a niche you actually could wind up doing better. But the trial and error on that are a process. There's actually creative ways on a CV/resume to make a gap look a little less "gap-like" - check with a good head-hunter for suggestions on how to frame experience to show it in a little more "industry-like" example.
It's not too off-topic. More like "how to recover from the impact of the crap they did regardless of what they know".
Pssst...Hey be nice for a few weeks then go back to being an a$$!! - priceless.
I was really curious after hearing that if he really did what Rosalie asked him too.. It would have been the first few months of your first year in-rez... Just curious, did you see a difference? lol..
Yes. I did not know that was where it came from but he progressively chilled out over time. BUT - Rosalie is the one who micromanages that program and she is responsible for how horrible it is to date.
Rozilla chewed my arse over something really minute. I got a really good taste of her nastiness, and I figured out very quickly why I never cared for her.
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JavaJane
Once again, this is only my opinion... Take it or leave it.
Out of the three presidents of twi, the only one who personally harmed me and convinced me to do things I am still ashamed of and regret (marking and avoiding my family for five years) was LCM. Rosalie, although instrumental in my decision to leave twi, never hurt me personally. I have no personal anger directed at her, just general anger at twi and all cults. I post what I post here in effort to help others the way the posters at GSC helped me - by exposing the truths about twi and how it ruins lives, breaks up families, and is rotten from the source.
That being said, I have labeled Craig as simply duped by Weirwille. I actually have forgiven him for what happened with my family being torn apart. He was still wrong, his actions evil, but he was duped into thinking he was doing right.
I do not do the same in excusing Rosalie, because I think her motives differ. I believe she knows she does wrong and has selfish motivations. She is an adept liar and a master manipulator who learned her tricks from VP, the charlatan himself. She knows how to hide her motives behind a sweet mask.
I do not think this because it is easier for me to do so. For me (and everyone is different) it is harder to see that I was just plain old taken in by the con of an evil boring old woman. That it wasn't that they ACTUALLY had SOME heart for doing good and serving God means that I just fell for a blatant lie. All the good I thoughti saw, all the things that impressed me were just part of the mindf*@& they intentionally gave me... And I was eager to take the hook, to put myself in their power, to be a slave... It's hard to admit that I was had - not by someone who cared, or who was mistaken - but by a regular old con artist.
But once again, just my opinion. And a lot of you worked with her on a daily basis, unlike me!
Interesting remark earlier about how predators escalate, too!
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waysider
You just don't get as high up in an organization as they did without knowing the true score. Wierwille was a poser from the very inception of his little religious scam.
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Tzaia
Rare is the person who openly admits they screwed up - particularly when they took a lot of people along for the ride.
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OldSkool
Well, it's been good dialog. Frau never struck me as being that smart. Educated yes, smart no. Is that a conundrum? Anyways. Suffice it to say no matter what they know they are utterly evil.
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JavaJane
I agree with that OldSkool... Evil. And the fruit shows it.
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Nottawayfer
I don't give Craig Martinfail a pass. I know someone who spoke to him in the last few years. He doesn't believe he did anything wrong. That is the epitome of a conscience seared with a hot iron. He is a complete jack@$$ who knew what he was doing was wrong. He practiced error enough, he made it his doctrine.
Ironically, his very words "Practical error always leads to doctrinal error!!" helpe to led me outside the walls of TWI. I didn't trust the doctrine of adulterers anymore.
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Twinky
Oh golly gosh, those'd be a good listen on GS Radio.
Did they know they were being recorded? If not, you probably couldn't upload. If they did know, it'd be good to hear.
Anyway, they were probably recording you - from stuff I've read on this board, they recorded everything.
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Gen-2
Well, obviously I have a rather personal reason for not liking Rosalie, and it colors my views of her. Sure I believe she's deluded, I just don't see personal delusion as an excuse for evil. I don't care if the "sold out" years ago, or last week, because that doesn't make it all better, and they chose to be who they are. Conscience seared through? Sure. But even so, and even considering that, they walk without love towards people whom they decide to go after. They are devoid of compassion when they do so - and I don't really care how they justify themselves.
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Gen-2
Oh, one other thing,... the kinder, gentler, Rosalie Administration,.... largely meant holding off a bit on being A$$es to people. For Rosalie, this took a hermitage of a sort, But can any of you that were close to Headquarters say that there was anything done, more than it was - to simply discontinue doing some things?
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TrustAndObey
All that "being nice" was a show.. I remember after I had graduated Corps, one of my Corps brothers had brought an accusation against the coordinator (B01ch@k) because he thought he went overboard in things he said. Which honestly wasn't much different than what most of us heard, but this was personal (Actually it was more personal about his Corps "woman" he ended up marrying). Anyways, so the BOD get together in a private meeting with Bo1h@wk to figure out how to simmer my Corp bro down. It was probably the first I'd heard Rosalie actually having to tell our Corp Coordinator to apologize and to "let off" on the newbies being trained (That would have been you - OldSkool) for a few months. He was told to "be personal" and "kind" and then after a few months he could return to his "usual". lol.. I just had to laugh when I heard that.. What a farce!
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chockfull
Haha - put on the sheep's clothing for a few months so that the sheep don't get spooked by wolf-like behavior.
With her, this is just the facade, the front, the sugary sweet, North Carolina drawl, the act. Behind closed doors she plots acts of malicious destruction towards any who dare question her.
Is it kinder, gentler up front? Sure. You don't have a lunatic with a microphone and a tape subscription service broadcasting his lunacy.
But it's a facade. A counterfeit. Real Christianity is not kinder and gentler up front and vicious behind closed doors. Real Christianity is harmless as doves.
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Twinky
Harmless as doves? See my tag line!!
Right now I don't feel at all harmless. In fact I feel furious, miserable and aggressive. Been trying to get a job for ages, interview today, just got the No thanks call.
If that s0dding place had been honest in the first place, I would never have done what I did (enter the Corps) because that would have meant giving up on a career where I really thought I could help people, where people came to me for help. I thought I'd have been able to give them more help. But no - to return to one's profession is to return to vomit. Have to be sold out and work for the ministry.
Oh you didn't work hard enough. Let's just throw you out and rip all your self-confidence from you, any that was left. Oh, and as you do not pass go but do collect two hundred pounds of guilt and self-condemnation, we'll really push you down in the ditch;in fact, we will push you off a cliff into some deep sea so that you really can't get back on your feet. It's all your fault anyway.
Pah! Yes they knew they were manipulating people. They knew way before I ever entered; they knew whilst I was in rez, they know now.
And all the staff Corps know, even as they do menial jobs, yet they still encourage you to give up your good job and join them in meniality, sorry, the more abundant life.
Thank God for Grease Spot. At least I now know that I know that I was manipulated and lied to.
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chockfull
Twinky,
I know how you feel. But just know that the true God, who we were praying to through all that mess, is faithful to restore the years that the worms have eaten. Unlike many, we've retained our integrity, despite the personal expense. Sometimes we need to change directions, reinvent ourselves in a fashion, change like with careers, social circles and such. But God is there with us to help with guidance, love, inspiration. And there's self-confidence and comfort in rebuilding.
In the famous words of Rob Schneider, established many times throughout Adam Sandler movies,
"You can do it"
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JavaJane
Twinky
!
I know exactly how you feel. I just had a conversation about this with my husband this morning... we both gave up dreams, gave up successful carreers and money so that we could live this "more abundant life" to "serve" God in twi. And now we are starting over... and it takes a long time. My job pays the bills, but it isn't the six figure salary I would have had if I had stayed with my job and not gone Way Disciple. My husband's music career is on hold because he has problems playing due to twi crap.
But it does get better, and it will. God will provide.
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Twinky
:offtopic:Thanks, chockfull and JJ.
Yeah, my head is right, and I'm so thankful. But the missing years in the CV don't disappear, and the experience that I should have gained doesn't miraculously appear. In my line of work, a break tends to be permanent.
I'm doing sideways shifts, looking at anything at all that might pay the bills. Like JJ, I won't ever get that big salary that I could have been earning, not that that was of major interest - but right now any salary would be of huge interest. Telling my mortgage lender and utilities suppliers that God will provide doesn't quite cut it with them :(.
Now back to the regularly scheduled topic.
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OldSkool
Pssst...Hey be nice for a few weeks then go back to being an a$$!! - priceless.
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chockfull
Yeah, in this economy, specialization is key over commodity, in specific areas that are favorable under supply and demand economics. If you find the right angle on this combining skills with a niche you actually could wind up doing better. But the trial and error on that are a process. There's actually creative ways on a CV/resume to make a gap look a little less "gap-like" - check with a good head-hunter for suggestions on how to frame experience to show it in a little more "industry-like" example.
It's not too off-topic. More like "how to recover from the impact of the crap they did regardless of what they know".
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TrustAndObey
I was really curious after hearing that if he really did what Rosalie asked him too.. It would have been the first few months of your first year in-rez... Just curious, did you see a difference? lol..
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OldSkool
Yes. I did not know that was where it came from but he progressively chilled out over time. BUT - Rosalie is the one who micromanages that program and she is responsible for how horrible it is to date.
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Nottawayfer
Rozilla chewed my arse over something really minute. I got a really good taste of her nastiness, and I figured out very quickly why I never cared for her.
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