Maybe I'm giving Rosie a little too much credit, but I think she knows EXACTLY what she is doing and doesn't give a crap about God - just using that as a veneer as a way to be waited on hand and foot by servants who are paid less than minimum wage, and have $54,000,000.00 at her disposal tax free. Her house is more than comfortable, and all upkeep is handled by the Staff who worship her and will do anything she wants. She has her own little population of brainwashed people willing to do whatever she wants in the name of God. And it's all based on lies and hypocrisy.
Here is why I think this: Rosalie got involved a LONG time back, and she was older than most of those who got involved at that time. VP said that he respected her (which we know he rarely respected women at all.) She sat in the background, learning the con, manipulating and micromanaging the life out of everything. She fed LCM (and probably VP) women who she had helped coerce into sexual servitude - she knew it was wrong. Why did she do it? To curry favor. She laid in wait until LCM's debauchery (which she endorsed by her procurement of women for LCM) finally resulted in a lawsuit, allowing her to step in and take over. It is reported that she is a lesbian in a ministry that vehemently condemns homosexuality - once again a moral conundrum for her, which she seems to ignore. She stated at the beginning of her term as president that BOD positions would not be "lifetime" assignments - and they haven't been EXCEPT FOR HER. Another lie, more hypocrisy.
She has effectively weeded out all those who question her, who try to bring her back to "the Word"... she never had a conscience to sear, in my opinion. She is living high on the fat of the sacrifices of good people trying to do their best for God and she knows exactly what she is doing.
Where else other than a cult in the middle of a cornfield with a veneer of nice Christianity could someone get away with this?
As for her fellow directors, I think they are just as duped as the rest of the fold.
I agree completely. I think she knows exactly what she is doing too.
The others are extremely self-deluded.
Maybe I'm giving Rosie a little too much credit, but I think she knows EXACTLY what she is doing and doesn't give a crap about God - just using that as a veneer as a way to be waited on hand and foot by servants who are paid less than minimum wage, and have $54,000,000.00 at her disposal tax free. Her house is more than comfortable, and all upkeep is handled by the Staff who worship her and will do anything she wants. She has her own little population of brainwashed people willing to do whatever she wants in the name of God. And it's all based on lies and hypocrisy.
Here is why I think this: Rosalie got involved a LONG time back, and she was older than most of those who got involved at that time. VP said that he respected her (which we know he rarely respected women at all.) She sat in the background, learning the con, manipulating and micromanaging the life out of everything. She fed LCM (and probably VP) women who she had helped coerce into sexual servitude - she knew it was wrong. Why did she do it? To curry favor. She laid in wait until LCM's debauchery (which she endorsed by her procurement of women for LCM) finally resulted in a lawsuit, allowing her to step in and take over. It is reported that she is a lesbian in a ministry that vehemently condemns homosexuality - once again a moral conundrum for her, which she seems to ignore. She stated at the beginning of her term as president that BOD positions would not be "lifetime" assignments - and they haven't been EXCEPT FOR HER. Another lie, more hypocrisy.
She has effectively weeded out all those who question her, who try to bring her back to "the Word"... she never had a conscience to sear, in my opinion. She is living high on the fat of the sacrifices of good people trying to do their best for God and she knows exactly what she is doing.
Where else other than a cult in the middle of a cornfield with a veneer of nice Christianity could someone get away with this?
As for her fellow directors, I think they are just as duped as the rest of the fold.
I agree completely. I think she knows exactly what she is doing too.
The others are extremely self-deluded.
Having sat down and confronted her face to face for over an hour, I just don't know.. Maybe someday I'll upload the recording since I recorded my confrontations with Linder and the BOD so I could always listen back to why I left. But she kept ignoring every point I brought up and kept trying to say I lost the passion for truth.. Which actually in my mind was the reason I was leaving, because I was passionate about truth.. lol.. But I just don't know. If anything, I'd say she is definitely self-deluded, and with everyone giving allegiance to her and paying her tribute and agreeing, they only help her be more deluded...
Having sat down and confronted her face to face for over an hour, I just don't know.. Maybe someday I'll upload the recording since I recorded my confrontations with Linder and the BOD so I could always listen back to why I left. But she kept ignoring every point I brought up and kept trying to say I lost the passion for truth.. Which actually in my mind was the reason I was leaving, because I was passionate about truth.. lol.. But I just don't know. If anything, I'd say she is definitely self-deluded, and with everyone giving allegiance to her and paying her tribute and agreeing, they only help her be more deluded...
Well that is a toughie T&O. I really believe that she doesn't care about others unless there is some benefit to her to do so, and I'd have to say she definitely lives in her own little bubble there. Now whether that translates into her ignorance is another question. If she has it in her heart to screw someone over she certainly knows how to go and take care of business, and so far, the BOD ducklings waddle in her wake (and not vice versa).
Perhaps a case could be made either WAY, But either way,... she does not care about the people she affects, or the effect that she has on their lives via her "Declarations". She's a compassionless soul either way, and a true waste of skin.
That's not hard to believe. It happens all the time. Why should it be any different with them?
My guess is many of use were hurt by the system they promote. It's just easier to see them with fangs sometimes. Personally, I would rather think they are doing what they do on purpose. Guess this is something we can only speculate about. Personally, I don't see how they can do what they do - but I really think they are past feeling.
Read Rosalie's testamony,..... where she swears to tell the truth - the whole truth and nothing but the truth - so help her God.
And you'll see, she knows.
Oh, no doubt I know she is a liar and evidence alludes to her knowing about Craig years before 1998. I think she believes she is doing those things to save "Gawd's Ministry."
That's my point. I'm not saying that she isn't a heartless liar.
It could be, that with advanced age, she's lost that ability to know when to cover her A$$, but in the past she's known exactly when to NOT tell the whole truth. So at least at one time While Chairman of the Board, she knew. And in other threads many of you have said as much. How easily we tend to stuff things aside.
Oh, no doubt I know she is a liar and evidence alludes to her knowing about Craig years before 1998. I think she believes she is doing those things to save "Gawd's Ministry."
That's my point. I'm not saying that she isn't a heartless liar.
Ahhh that's a touch od semantics there, that is. I never meant that she didn't think the Way was God's One Ministry. I simply meant that she screwed many people over gleefully, well beyond "God's Needs" to see that individual or family, group etc,.... screwed over. And she enjoyed it. It's Her and God baby! and she knows exactly what's on God's mind.
Do they know? The answer to me is contained in scriptures, not in analyzing people with narcissistic personality disorders like Q-Tip and the Great Pineapple.
The core of the issue goes back to being sons of God. In the NIV, these scriptures highlight this:
I John 1:
5This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. 7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.
8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.
The subtlety in the actions of the BOD, and especially Frau Q-Tip is central to 1 John 1:8 - this is actually what they themselves have taught as "The Central Deception". Now if you question them directly of course they will say "I don't claim to be without sin". And yet when you examine how they operate that is exactly what they are doing. They use their positions of authority to frame any interaction to be about their authority, not about their actions. They never allow their actions, or the fruit of their lives, to be examined by anyone. Through their authority which they abuse regularly there is a great deal of sin. Yet because of this authority nobody is ever permitted to confront this sin. Every conversation is framed away from their sin - it is ignored.
Here's an example. Q-Tip, by public court records, was well aware of the sexual indiscretions of the previous president 5 years before the lawsuit. All the details of that, and the accusations of her playing a part in all of that were hidden away. In reality, all of this should be brought before the household to be handled. The sin, and the fruit of the sin is there. To admit it and get it handled and out in the open is what these verses are talking about. Yet they hide away their actions behind closed doors. They say to the household they are without sin. In interactions with others they say they are without sin. In this example, Rosalie confronted the Corps on not speaking up about this. This is sin. They frame conversations to never examine their fruit, but always to be about someone else. This is sin. This is hard-heartedness. This is evil. In this, the scriptures judge them. They deceive themselves. The truth is not in them.
They will eventually answer for their sin - by their fruit they make God out to be a liar, and His Word has no place in their lives. This is the truth of the matter, regardless of whether they are blabbering on about someone else "losing their passion for the truth" or whatever lie they are making up at the time.
They lie. They deal in lies. The lies originate within themselves. And lies are opposite of the truth. God honors the truth. People that walk in the truth He talks with, guides, gives inspiration to them so that they can live for Him and honor Him. These are not like that. They construct false honor for themselves, which the fruit of their lives contradicts.
I don't disagree, she lies in sin. That the adversary is able to work through her. That her life is full of deceit and evil fruit. I don't think any of that is in question.. I think we all agree on this 100%. lol. They must be blind to not believe that.
But to me, the topic is more a question of where is their thinking. Do they really recognize their actions, what they are doing.. We all agree what they do is evil. What they continue to do is deceptive and the work that is anti God and Christ.. But do they realize that.. And that, I don't know.. definitely self deluded..
Gen-2,
Yup, she's a compassionless soul either way... Very sad.. She could do so much to help others, yet she won't.. Those in TWI could all be living joyously, yet they are weighted down with laws from the BOD only they don't recognize them as such. And she won't let them free, but rather does everything in her power to bind them up.. Compassionless to the very core.
But to me, the topic is more a question of where is their thinking. Do they really recognize their actions, what they are doing.. We all agree what they do is evil. What they continue to do is deceptive and the work that is anti God and Christ.. But do they realize that.. And that, I don't know.. definitely self deluded..
To me the scriptures describe them aptly as self deluded as you say.
Do they recognize their actions? Since they are the ones deceiving themselves do they recognize that what they are telling themselves are lies? Do they recognize the true depth of what's going on?
Another place scripture talks about it is "conscience seared with a hot iron". That would indicate someone is past feeling. There's a work of the flesh in the KJV called "menstealers" - which is more like traders in flesh or slave traders, which they do.
I guess to speak about the topic rationally there are couple approaches:
1) Scripturally
2) Psychologically
From a phsychological standpoint, if you study the behavior of predators, like serial killers, there is usually a progression involved, where the first evil acts performed there is evidence of a conscience and moral struggle, but later acts are without this. That perspective may apply also.
I make no defense for them. It's that the system they teach has a way of blinding followers to the obvious. How many times have we posted on GSC how we were deceived with this stuff at one point and felt stupid for not seeing it. Personally, I think VeePee knew what he was doing, numbed out his conscience with Drambuie, and justified his lusts and ego with scripture and half truths. Now what do cults do? They follow a central figure blindly. The Forehead was that central figure after VeePee and now it's Frau Q-tip. Only problem with Frau is she is talentless and bland. So, she points back at VeePee and puppeteers from the background.
But from my experiences working for them, and getting a glimpse at the inner workings of this thing these guys actually believe they are doing God's word and will. Right to the point of ruining someone's life by marking and avoiding someone who totally lives for the way international. Does this excuse them? No - it places them in greater condemnation because COUNTLESS people have told them of their errors, and I am one of the countless.
So the sickness of these people is they lie under oath, manipulate followers, bind heavy burdens on others backs, make laws and policies, ignore Christ the living head of the Church, horde money mindlessly, all the while thinking they are running the body of Christ on earth as da MOGFODAT / HOGFODAT.
As I said personally I would rather say they know they are screwing their followers, it makes for better reading. But in all honesty I cannot and I endeavor to be as honest as possible in recounting my experiences on GSC. I spent a lot of time working for them and I really believe they are delusional. Delusions of grandeur - megalomaniacs. In that perhaps I am deluded.
And please don't think I am defending them, just recounting things the best I know.
Also, please don't think I am arguing with you guys either cause that is not my intention.
To me the scriptures describe them aptly as self deluded as you say.
I guess to speak about the topic rationally there are couple approaches:
1) Scripturally
2) Psychologically
From a phsychological standpoint, if you study the behavior of predators, like serial killers, there is usually a progression involved, where the first evil acts performed there is evidence of a conscience and moral struggle, but later acts are without this. That perspective may apply also.
I think you have a great point there.. Probably more true than I understand myself, not being that "up" on psychology and all.. But certainly realizing myself, it came to that, when I was asked to do things my conscience said no.. Some I caved in cause I thought I was right, but ultimately I finally listened and I left..
As I said personally I would rather say they know they are screwing their followers, it makes for better reading. But in all honesty I cannot and I endeavor to be as honest as possible in recounting my experiences on GSC. I spent a lot of time working for them and I really believe they are delusional. Delusions of grandeur - megalomaniacs. In that perhaps I am deluded.
And please don't think I am defending them, just recounting things the best I know.
Also, please don't think I am arguing with you guys either cause that is not my intention.
Yeah, they're probably clueless. Until the return which will be a huge wakeup call. You're not defending them or arguing, just presenting your viewpoint. There's actually room for more than one viewpoint outside of TWI.
Sinclair Lewis’s Elmer Gantry (New York, 1927) is a ferocious satire against Protestant fundamentalist religion in the American Midwest. It tells the story of a hypocritical, corrupt, but very successful preacher named Elmer Gantry. Elmer starts his career as a Baptist and then joins up with a charismatic but equally unprincipled female revivalist preacher. After her death, he joins the Methodist Church. Amoral and relentlessly ambitious, Elmer builds a statewide and national reputation as a fiery preacher who never tires of denouncing vice, while at the same time feeling no need to curb his own vices, particularly adultery. source: www.enotes.com/elmer-gantry
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OldSkool
Oh, I think that they believe that they are totally right with God. Crazy, huh?
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Bolshevik
as much money as they're raking in . . . it's a dull life . . . yes, they're as deluded as the rank and file. imo
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JavaJane
Maybe I'm giving Rosie a little too much credit, but I think she knows EXACTLY what she is doing and doesn't give a crap about God - just using that as a veneer as a way to be waited on hand and foot by servants who are paid less than minimum wage, and have $54,000,000.00 at her disposal tax free. Her house is more than comfortable, and all upkeep is handled by the Staff who worship her and will do anything she wants. She has her own little population of brainwashed people willing to do whatever she wants in the name of God. And it's all based on lies and hypocrisy.
Here is why I think this: Rosalie got involved a LONG time back, and she was older than most of those who got involved at that time. VP said that he respected her (which we know he rarely respected women at all.) She sat in the background, learning the con, manipulating and micromanaging the life out of everything. She fed LCM (and probably VP) women who she had helped coerce into sexual servitude - she knew it was wrong. Why did she do it? To curry favor. She laid in wait until LCM's debauchery (which she endorsed by her procurement of women for LCM) finally resulted in a lawsuit, allowing her to step in and take over. It is reported that she is a lesbian in a ministry that vehemently condemns homosexuality - once again a moral conundrum for her, which she seems to ignore. She stated at the beginning of her term as president that BOD positions would not be "lifetime" assignments - and they haven't been EXCEPT FOR HER. Another lie, more hypocrisy.
She has effectively weeded out all those who question her, who try to bring her back to "the Word"... she never had a conscience to sear, in my opinion. She is living high on the fat of the sacrifices of good people trying to do their best for God and she knows exactly what she is doing.
Where else other than a cult in the middle of a cornfield with a veneer of nice Christianity could someone get away with this?
As for her fellow directors, I think they are just as duped as the rest of the fold.
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Bolshevik
I thought I heard here family was killed in a car accident or something . . . maybe made her rather . . . idunno . . . stupid
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Gen-2
Oh they know,................
But they don't care. They have a Jack, but they will not help you, and they're teaching others to not-help-you too.
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chockfull
and bitter ..... ? vindictive ..... ?
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Bolshevik
easily influenced?
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shortfuse
I agree completely. I think she knows exactly what she is doing too.
The others are extremely self-deluded.
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TrustAndObey
Having sat down and confronted her face to face for over an hour, I just don't know.. Maybe someday I'll upload the recording since I recorded my confrontations with Linder and the BOD so I could always listen back to why I left. But she kept ignoring every point I brought up and kept trying to say I lost the passion for truth.. Which actually in my mind was the reason I was leaving, because I was passionate about truth.. lol.. But I just don't know. If anything, I'd say she is definitely self-deluded, and with everyone giving allegiance to her and paying her tribute and agreeing, they only help her be more deluded...
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Gen-2
Well that is a toughie T&O. I really believe that she doesn't care about others unless there is some benefit to her to do so, and I'd have to say she definitely lives in her own little bubble there. Now whether that translates into her ignorance is another question. If she has it in her heart to screw someone over she certainly knows how to go and take care of business, and so far, the BOD ducklings waddle in her wake (and not vice versa).
Perhaps a case could be made either WAY, But either way,... she does not care about the people she affects, or the effect that she has on their lives via her "Declarations". She's a compassionless soul either way, and a true waste of skin.
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OldSkool
Perhaps I'm wrong, but my dealings with the BOD led me to think they really think they are working for God and carrying out his will to the letter.
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Tzaia
That's not hard to believe. It happens all the time. Why should it be any different with them?
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OldSkool
My guess is many of use were hurt by the system they promote. It's just easier to see them with fangs sometimes. Personally, I would rather think they are doing what they do on purpose. Guess this is something we can only speculate about. Personally, I don't see how they can do what they do - but I really think they are past feeling.
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Gen-2
Read Rosalie's testamony,..... where she swears to tell the truth - the whole truth and nothing but the truth - so help her God.
And you'll see, she knows.
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OldSkool
Oh, no doubt I know she is a liar and evidence alludes to her knowing about Craig years before 1998. I think she believes she is doing those things to save "Gawd's Ministry."
That's my point. I'm not saying that she isn't a heartless liar.
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Gen-2
It could be, that with advanced age, she's lost that ability to know when to cover her A$$, but in the past she's known exactly when to NOT tell the whole truth. So at least at one time While Chairman of the Board, she knew. And in other threads many of you have said as much. How easily we tend to stuff things aside.
Ahhh that's a touch od semantics there, that is. I never meant that she didn't think the Way was God's One Ministry. I simply meant that she screwed many people over gleefully, well beyond "God's Needs" to see that individual or family, group etc,.... screwed over. And she enjoyed it. It's Her and God baby! and she knows exactly what's on God's mind.
That's why said she knows.
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chockfull
Do they know? The answer to me is contained in scriptures, not in analyzing people with narcissistic personality disorders like Q-Tip and the Great Pineapple.
The core of the issue goes back to being sons of God. In the NIV, these scriptures highlight this:
I John 1:
5This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. 7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.
8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.
The subtlety in the actions of the BOD, and especially Frau Q-Tip is central to 1 John 1:8 - this is actually what they themselves have taught as "The Central Deception". Now if you question them directly of course they will say "I don't claim to be without sin". And yet when you examine how they operate that is exactly what they are doing. They use their positions of authority to frame any interaction to be about their authority, not about their actions. They never allow their actions, or the fruit of their lives, to be examined by anyone. Through their authority which they abuse regularly there is a great deal of sin. Yet because of this authority nobody is ever permitted to confront this sin. Every conversation is framed away from their sin - it is ignored.
Here's an example. Q-Tip, by public court records, was well aware of the sexual indiscretions of the previous president 5 years before the lawsuit. All the details of that, and the accusations of her playing a part in all of that were hidden away. In reality, all of this should be brought before the household to be handled. The sin, and the fruit of the sin is there. To admit it and get it handled and out in the open is what these verses are talking about. Yet they hide away their actions behind closed doors. They say to the household they are without sin. In interactions with others they say they are without sin. In this example, Rosalie confronted the Corps on not speaking up about this. This is sin. They frame conversations to never examine their fruit, but always to be about someone else. This is sin. This is hard-heartedness. This is evil. In this, the scriptures judge them. They deceive themselves. The truth is not in them.
They will eventually answer for their sin - by their fruit they make God out to be a liar, and His Word has no place in their lives. This is the truth of the matter, regardless of whether they are blabbering on about someone else "losing their passion for the truth" or whatever lie they are making up at the time.
They lie. They deal in lies. The lies originate within themselves. And lies are opposite of the truth. God honors the truth. People that walk in the truth He talks with, guides, gives inspiration to them so that they can live for Him and honor Him. These are not like that. They construct false honor for themselves, which the fruit of their lives contradicts.
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TrustAndObey
Chockfull,
I don't disagree, she lies in sin. That the adversary is able to work through her. That her life is full of deceit and evil fruit. I don't think any of that is in question.. I think we all agree on this 100%. lol. They must be blind to not believe that.
But to me, the topic is more a question of where is their thinking. Do they really recognize their actions, what they are doing.. We all agree what they do is evil. What they continue to do is deceptive and the work that is anti God and Christ.. But do they realize that.. And that, I don't know.. definitely self deluded..
Gen-2,
Yup, she's a compassionless soul either way... Very sad.. She could do so much to help others, yet she won't.. Those in TWI could all be living joyously, yet they are weighted down with laws from the BOD only they don't recognize them as such. And she won't let them free, but rather does everything in her power to bind them up.. Compassionless to the very core.
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chockfull
To me the scriptures describe them aptly as self deluded as you say.
Do they recognize their actions? Since they are the ones deceiving themselves do they recognize that what they are telling themselves are lies? Do they recognize the true depth of what's going on?
Another place scripture talks about it is "conscience seared with a hot iron". That would indicate someone is past feeling. There's a work of the flesh in the KJV called "menstealers" - which is more like traders in flesh or slave traders, which they do.
I guess to speak about the topic rationally there are couple approaches:
1) Scripturally
2) Psychologically
From a phsychological standpoint, if you study the behavior of predators, like serial killers, there is usually a progression involved, where the first evil acts performed there is evidence of a conscience and moral struggle, but later acts are without this. That perspective may apply also.
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OldSkool
I make no defense for them. It's that the system they teach has a way of blinding followers to the obvious. How many times have we posted on GSC how we were deceived with this stuff at one point and felt stupid for not seeing it. Personally, I think VeePee knew what he was doing, numbed out his conscience with Drambuie, and justified his lusts and ego with scripture and half truths. Now what do cults do? They follow a central figure blindly. The Forehead was that central figure after VeePee and now it's Frau Q-tip. Only problem with Frau is she is talentless and bland. So, she points back at VeePee and puppeteers from the background.
But from my experiences working for them, and getting a glimpse at the inner workings of this thing these guys actually believe they are doing God's word and will. Right to the point of ruining someone's life by marking and avoiding someone who totally lives for the way international. Does this excuse them? No - it places them in greater condemnation because COUNTLESS people have told them of their errors, and I am one of the countless.
So the sickness of these people is they lie under oath, manipulate followers, bind heavy burdens on others backs, make laws and policies, ignore Christ the living head of the Church, horde money mindlessly, all the while thinking they are running the body of Christ on earth as da MOGFODAT / HOGFODAT.
As I said personally I would rather say they know they are screwing their followers, it makes for better reading. But in all honesty I cannot and I endeavor to be as honest as possible in recounting my experiences on GSC. I spent a lot of time working for them and I really believe they are delusional. Delusions of grandeur - megalomaniacs. In that perhaps I am deluded.
And please don't think I am defending them, just recounting things the best I know.
Also, please don't think I am arguing with you guys either cause that is not my intention.
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TrustAndObey
I think you have a great point there.. Probably more true than I understand myself, not being that "up" on psychology and all.. But certainly realizing myself, it came to that, when I was asked to do things my conscience said no.. Some I caved in cause I thought I was right, but ultimately I finally listened and I left..
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chockfull
Yeah, they're probably clueless. Until the return which will be a huge wakeup call. You're not defending them or arguing, just presenting your viewpoint. There's actually room for more than one viewpoint outside of TWI.
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OldSkool
I start having flashbacks sometimes.
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citygirl99
Sinclair Lewis’s Elmer Gantry (New York, 1927) is a ferocious satire against Protestant fundamentalist religion in the American Midwest. It tells the story of a hypocritical, corrupt, but very successful preacher named Elmer Gantry. Elmer starts his career as a Baptist and then joins up with a charismatic but equally unprincipled female revivalist preacher. After her death, he joins the Methodist Church. Amoral and relentlessly ambitious, Elmer builds a statewide and national reputation as a fiery preacher who never tires of denouncing vice, while at the same time feeling no need to curb his own vices, particularly adultery. source: www.enotes.com/elmer-gantry
History repeats itself ... now doesn't it ...
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