R&X the book wasn't mid-80s, it was a bit later, late 80s or very early 90s, wasn't it? As to the R&X book - more like, Martindale was teaching his own personal experience. Projecting, reading into, "identifying with."
Maybe he was feeling a bit persecuted, got at. Not without justification: Geer had written PoP and slammed the Trustees badly, got them to sign the document "admitting" their "guilt" over VPW's death. LCM had been in his "fog years" stuff. Here he is, the new Prez, and here is this [other] wannabe Geer snapping at his heels.
Thinking how VPW pursued the Paul/Timothy image, with VPW/Paul as the leader and LCM as Timothy, and LCM's own teachings on how Timothy was weak and let things slide, can't you just see LCM seeing himself as Timothy ought (in LCM's mind) to have been - bold, strong and fearless, leading the ministry out in victory? Yet being harassed by that horrible usurper James/Geer, who "seemed to be" a leader in Jerusalem/Gartmore?
Or maybe LCM was just hero-worshipping VPW.
I don't remember reading that bit in the book. I'm glad about that.
Before this thread goes by the wayside, I wanted to make one more observation.
Wierwille made a major point out of I Timothy 1:15 where in the King James The Apostle Paul says, "All they which dwell in Asia be turned away from me." Regarding this, he "wrote" in The Word's Way that the first step on the road downward is turning away from "the Man of God." The implication was that people turned away from Paul and all was lost until God made it snow for young Victor. God did that as evidence of his promise to teach VPW the Word of God since it hadn't been known since the first century. Now The Great Mystery has been revealed and it's "Christ in you, the hope of glory (or GLOW-way)!
Very Little was said about any other teacher and in fact the original 12 Apostles were sort of considered as missing the mark, even Peter. Everyone, but Paul. As far as after Acts, the only other teacher ever mentioned with some degree of respect was Martin Luther. So it was the Apostle Paul, Martin Luther, V.P. Wierwille. This was all under VP's reign.
This sold well to kids who at the time were baby-boomers looking for a purpose. So, to disagree or go against Wierwille was akin to disagreeing with God Himself. On top of that, stories from the Bible such as Miriam in Exodus contracting leprosy for disobeying Moses were taught with the same implication that disobedience to Wierwille could have very dire consequences. That's why so many of us were afraid to leave. I mean, wasn't Moses a mere man? Yet, look what happened to people when they went against him. I'm just explaining the logic, I'm not agreeing with it at all. That's why Wierwille held so much power over people. One hears these crazy stories about how people were manipulated to do crazy stuff and it begs the question as to how seemingly intelligent people could just hand their very lives over to a crackpot.
If you were in the Corps or in that sort of ilk, you did what you were told and if you did, God would make sense out of it all later. Just do what you're told and it will all be clear someday. Even if the Man of God is wrong, God will still bless you for your obedience. If you disobey, especially Wierwille, they you were wide open for attack and God won't protect you because you've stepped out from under the "umbrella of believing".
Now Martindale took this to a whole different level with his teaching on the Book of Acts. In it, James was a traitor, Peter and Barnabus were nice guys but they were "softees". Pretty soon the church became pretty much milktoast and made compromises in the face of persecution. Both Wierwille and Martindale taught that early Christians were martyred because of their weakness of believing. All was lost until God talked to Wierwille. Once Wierwille passed, LCM was the man. I didn't hang around long after he took the reigns, but I remember how he was prior to becoming President. He was a zealot. He gave unflinching, unquestioning obedience to Wierwille and taught others to do the same. When he took over, he expected the same type of commitment to him. Someone else will have to speak about how he walked this stuff out. I've often felt that LCM missed his true calling. He would have done well as one of Hitler's "Brown Shirts", or as an officer in the SS.
These teachings in Acts had a huge impact on how TWI governed their "congregation" as it were. Much of the brokeness and pain many of us experienced from TWI have their roots in these "unique" teachings from Acts by Wierwille and Martindale.
I have concluded, personally, that life in The Way International was not a Christian experience. In my opinion, TWI wasn't an organization that was well-intended in the beginning and just went astray due to human frailty even though I believe there were individuals that were genuine. I also believe some people were Christians and wanted to do God's will. As far as the organization of TWI, I believe they were in error from the moment they were conceived and that the lifestyle they teach is not the same as what Jesus taught.
What makes it almost comically ironic is that the whole dechomai/lambano concept has been debunked
Depends on which one, there were actually several propouned over the Way's years. For instance lambano was supposed to mean to "receive into manifestation". Obviously this is a rather wide open translation which would be used to support spiritual matters. On the other hand lambano is used in the objective, in the Greek, and it is not a complete synonym with dechomai. Still, being objective, Lambano would be said to be discounted where the item received could not be held in one's hand, like love, joy peace etc.... Still God used it repeatedly concerning holy spirit, which you cannot hold in your hands. He must not know what he's doing. eh?
Weirewille played fast and loose with the definitions he gave in the class, sometimes quoting the wrong greek words or just sort of making up a definition to suit his needs. Enoch never seeing death with his own eyes, for instance. He also irritated me by mispronouncing Hebrew and Greek words.
Oh in the example of Paul being received in Jerusalem, suppose we take one of VPW's many definitions of Dechomai and see how easily the Wordsmith could have gone in any direction with his private interpretations,.... He could have said
That received (When we arrived at Jerusalem, the brothers received us warmly) meant:
Received subjectively - leading to their teaching that they didn't "openly" receive Paul, being internally deceptive towards him.
or they could use one of Wierwille's other definitions for dechomai
Received into one's heart - leading to the thought that they received Paul warmly into their hearts, in spite of the fact that he really was looking for trouble, just being in Jerusalem, they loved the man dearly and listened to him.
Wierwille's definitions were just that open to any need he might have.
Wierwille's definitions were just that open to any need he might have.
Personally, I think he embellished definitions to suit his teachings. I have tried to trace a lot of the definition into Thayer's, Strong's, and the like only to find that the definition cannot be traced and to be told by leadership that the definition resulted from research.
Personally, I think he embellished definitions to suit his teachings. I have tried to trace a lot of the definition into Thayer's, Strong's, and the like only to find that the definition cannot be traced and to be told by leadership that the definition resulted from research.
Weirwille's love for this started earlier on. Those who took PFAL will remember VPW going over Versions of the Bible and how he mentioned the English Revised Version (RV) circa 1884? and the American Standard Version of 1901 as being two of the most accurate versions on the whole. The Way Bookstore stocked those versions. They also, early on carried materials from Zondervan, a Bible and Christian book publisher.
Back in the days that TV was 3 channels and Black & White, Zondervan had the rights to the American Standard version of 1901. They were working with the Lockman Foundation on a "Literal Translation According to Usage" which was based on the ASV of 1901. They began in the early 1950's and published the first complete Amplified Bible in 1965. The Way along with all Christian clients on Zondervan's "Pastor's List" received advanced copies at the end of 1964. In the PFAL Class Wierwille put that Bible to advanced use as his very own "Literal Translations According to Usage". Sometimes they were slightly altered to suit his needs, but they formed the basis of much of his early "Research", along with other plagarized works.
What makes it almost comically ironic is that the whole dechomai/lambano concept has been debunked
I'm not sure debunked is the right word. I spent a lot of time going over those two words when I left TWI. I found the best definition for lambano was "to receive and make use of." I also found there were a lot of usages of the word lambano that where listed in the back of the RTHST book that were not the word lambano but had the word as a root. The prefex changes the whole meaing. There are also usages of the word decomai that implied the use of what was received and again prefexes change the meaning.
In regards to the basic teaching that Paul was not supposed to go to Jerusalem. Yes I believe a lot of the Christians in Jerusalem were caught up in the law. But that dosen't mean they were evil. Of course if you want to talk about being caught up in law and works, it seems TWI became just that.
I'm not sure debunked is the right word. I spent a lot of time going over those two words when I left TWI. I found the best definition for lambano was "to receive and make use of." I also found there were a lot of usages of the word lambano that where listed in the back of the RTHST book that were not the word lambano but had the word as a root. The prefex changes the whole meaing. There are also usages of the word decomai that implied the use of what was received and again prefexes change the meaning.
In regards to the basic teaching that Paul was not supposed to go to Jerusalem. Yes I believe a lot of the Christians in Jerusalem were caught up in the law. But that dosen't mean they were evil. Of course if you want to talk about being caught up in law and works, it seems TWI became just that.
This is a very good point Keith. Someone in another thread asked me about words in the LXX (Septuagint) concerning servant and serve. So I cracked the books open aqand looked at the words and passed them on to her (JavaJane) in one of her threads. I included the word she would have to find in Strongs Concordance that corresponded to the words I gave her. The concordance does not list every form of the word, just one basic form.
As an example, epilambano and lambano have different meanings But most of the time, strongs lists lambano for both - which is why I am convinced that VPW did his word studies through a concordance,.... because he always glossed over the fact that the mss might have an entitely different form of the word than Strong's or Young's Concordances listed. They generally just listed one basic form of the word, no matter what variation of it was in the mss.
I think when I went the dechomi/lambano verses using both a program called "on-line bible" and "Bibleworks 5" only about half of the usages of the word lambano were really lambano and there were usages of both words that were totally left out that really helped with understanding what they meant. Both of these are very good programs by the way and I recommend them. Bibleworks is a little more through, but costs $500. On-Line Bible is free and sometimes more versital unless you are really into the nitty-gritty of the languages.
Back to on-topic. I've often thought that TWI is almost exactly what they say Jame's ministry became.
I doubt that James' ministry had the "law of believing" saturating the thought and prayer life of those early church believers.
Were those Jerusalem guys "believing" for a camel parking spot near the temple?
Were they "believing" for 7 newbies to sign up for their Torah class?
Were they walking around the marketplaces "believing" to witness to others?
Did their "believing" stop the rains during major events?
Since it doesn't say much about them after the exodus...who knows.
Of course I was thinking more along the lines that TWI said Jerusalem had become very law and works oriented, and that seems to be exactly what TWI became. Different laws and works, but laws and works just the same.
Back to on-topic. I've often thought that TWI is almost exactly what they say Jame's ministry became.
The operative word here is "they say". What TWI SAID became of James' ministry. I don't buy that what they said is accurate at all. At best, they are projecting their own falleness into the Jerusalem. However, I think it was more to point that: First there was Jesus, the Peter but he sort of fell short, still a good man, though. Then there was Paul, a REAL man of God, then he died and the light of God's Word went with him, the church sunk into Catholocism, Martin Luther turned on a lightbulb but then...TA DA!! IT SNOWS FOR VICTOR AND WE'RE SAVED!! FINALLY, FOR THE FIRST TIME SINCE THE FIRST CENTURY, WE HAVE THE TRUE WORD OF GOD!! Good thing I'm not sarcastic or anything.
It was LCM, by the way, that emphasized that the word for "receive", when the believers in Jerusalem received Paul was dechomai. It was also LCM that said the use of dechomai indicated that Paul received a cold reception from James and the others. Wierwille never taught that. He didn't correct Martindale either and this teaching came out when VP was still prez.
This is a very good point Keith. Someone in another thread asked me about words in the LXX (Septuagint) concerning servant and serve. So I cracked the books open aqand looked at the words and passed them on to her (JavaJane) in one of her threads. I included the word she would have to find in Strongs Concordance that corresponded to the words I gave her. The concordance does not list every form of the word, just one basic form.
As an example, epilambano and lambano have different meanings But most of the time, strongs lists lambano for both - which is why I am convinced that VPW did his word studies through a concordance,.... because he always glossed over the fact that the mss might have an entitely different form of the word than Strong's or Young's Concordances listed. They generally just listed one basic form of the word, no matter what variation of it was in the mss.
I never considered that. Good point. So basically, learning the Word better than its been known since the first century was simply a country preacher doing word studies. If he saw that something had the same root, he assumed the meanings were the same. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say VP probably didn't even have a consultant that knew anything about Greek. He openly admitted that he didn't know Greek. It's on (or was on. I understand they're being edited) a SNS tape where he says he didn't know Greek. He did say, "you can't fool me on it". I remember that because I was new in the ministry at the time and was surprised that Wierwille himself was a scholar. I thought he had a doctorate in theology. This would have been sometime in 1975.
Only among (ex) Way believers could there be such a huge discussion about the (possible) meanings of two words meaning receive.
Not what the average church goer spends a lot of time thinking about. They'd rather just "receive" and "do" (or not) than spend time wondering what somebody 2000 years ago did (or not).
"you can't fool me on it". I remember that because I was new in the ministry at the time and was surprised that Wierwille himself was a scholar. I thought he had a doctorate in theology. This would have been sometime in 1975.
That's cause he sent others, like Walter Cummings to real colleges and they knew what he didn't. How many times in University of Life tapes did VeePee turn and say "Walter?"
And let's not forget that Wierwille made a point of mentioning "Greek' in the CF&S class.
(OK----maybe he actually did know about that one.)
And let's not forget that Wierwille made a point of mentioning "Greek' in the CF&S class.
(OK----maybe he actually did know about that one.)
Because after all, a little Greek along with showing illicit sex tapes with dogs and prostitutes from Tijuana really help educate people on that topic. You don't really need Biblically accurate teachings or anything.
Say what? (I didn't have VeePee or Lloyd's sex classes.)
There was a section in CF&S where VPP felt it was his obligation to make sure we were up to date on all the current slang terms relating to sex. (Including "Greek".) <_<
There was a section in CF&S where VPP felt it was his obligation to make sure we were up to date on all the current slang terms relating to sex. (Including "Greek".) <_<
Egads. Dirty old man bringing the keeds up to date...oh boy.
We watched Carolyn Rollins "New Life" class when I was in-residentured. They had several points in the class where some of the older pillars from VeePee's day would get up to coordinate the class sessions and tell really crude, dirty jokes. It was horribly inappropriate. I think that sort of thing in that context desensitizes the participants.
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Here's a little hint on how that one works. "Error in judgement" - that's the kind of error your leadership makes, even if it breaks the law. "Error in heart" - that's the kind of error you make, be
Broken Arrow
Now Martindale took this to a whole different level with his teaching on the Book of Acts. In it, James was a traitor, Peter and Barnabus were nice guys but they were "softees". Pretty soon the church
Twinky
Only among (ex) Way believers could there be such a huge discussion about the (possible) meanings of two words meaning receive. Not what the average church goer spends a lot of time thinking about.
Twinky
R&X the book wasn't mid-80s, it was a bit later, late 80s or very early 90s, wasn't it? As to the R&X book - more like, Martindale was teaching his own personal experience. Projecting, reading into, "identifying with."
Maybe he was feeling a bit persecuted, got at. Not without justification: Geer had written PoP and slammed the Trustees badly, got them to sign the document "admitting" their "guilt" over VPW's death. LCM had been in his "fog years" stuff. Here he is, the new Prez, and here is this [other] wannabe Geer snapping at his heels.
Thinking how VPW pursued the Paul/Timothy image, with VPW/Paul as the leader and LCM as Timothy, and LCM's own teachings on how Timothy was weak and let things slide, can't you just see LCM seeing himself as Timothy ought (in LCM's mind) to have been - bold, strong and fearless, leading the ministry out in victory? Yet being harassed by that horrible usurper James/Geer, who "seemed to be" a leader in Jerusalem/Gartmore?
Or maybe LCM was just hero-worshipping VPW.
I don't remember reading that bit in the book. I'm glad about that.
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OldSkool
Did I ever mention just how nucking futts these screw balls are / were ?
<_<
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Broken Arrow
Before this thread goes by the wayside, I wanted to make one more observation.
Wierwille made a major point out of I Timothy 1:15 where in the King James The Apostle Paul says, "All they which dwell in Asia be turned away from me." Regarding this, he "wrote" in The Word's Way that the first step on the road downward is turning away from "the Man of God." The implication was that people turned away from Paul and all was lost until God made it snow for young Victor. God did that as evidence of his promise to teach VPW the Word of God since it hadn't been known since the first century. Now The Great Mystery has been revealed and it's "Christ in you, the hope of glory (or GLOW-way)!
Very Little was said about any other teacher and in fact the original 12 Apostles were sort of considered as missing the mark, even Peter. Everyone, but Paul. As far as after Acts, the only other teacher ever mentioned with some degree of respect was Martin Luther. So it was the Apostle Paul, Martin Luther, V.P. Wierwille. This was all under VP's reign.
This sold well to kids who at the time were baby-boomers looking for a purpose. So, to disagree or go against Wierwille was akin to disagreeing with God Himself. On top of that, stories from the Bible such as Miriam in Exodus contracting leprosy for disobeying Moses were taught with the same implication that disobedience to Wierwille could have very dire consequences. That's why so many of us were afraid to leave. I mean, wasn't Moses a mere man? Yet, look what happened to people when they went against him. I'm just explaining the logic, I'm not agreeing with it at all. That's why Wierwille held so much power over people. One hears these crazy stories about how people were manipulated to do crazy stuff and it begs the question as to how seemingly intelligent people could just hand their very lives over to a crackpot.
If you were in the Corps or in that sort of ilk, you did what you were told and if you did, God would make sense out of it all later. Just do what you're told and it will all be clear someday. Even if the Man of God is wrong, God will still bless you for your obedience. If you disobey, especially Wierwille, they you were wide open for attack and God won't protect you because you've stepped out from under the "umbrella of believing".
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waysider
Yes, I believe that just about sums up the "lesson" VPP was hoping we would take to heart.
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Broken Arrow
Now Martindale took this to a whole different level with his teaching on the Book of Acts. In it, James was a traitor, Peter and Barnabus were nice guys but they were "softees". Pretty soon the church became pretty much milktoast and made compromises in the face of persecution. Both Wierwille and Martindale taught that early Christians were martyred because of their weakness of believing. All was lost until God talked to Wierwille. Once Wierwille passed, LCM was the man. I didn't hang around long after he took the reigns, but I remember how he was prior to becoming President. He was a zealot. He gave unflinching, unquestioning obedience to Wierwille and taught others to do the same. When he took over, he expected the same type of commitment to him. Someone else will have to speak about how he walked this stuff out. I've often felt that LCM missed his true calling. He would have done well as one of Hitler's "Brown Shirts", or as an officer in the SS.
These teachings in Acts had a huge impact on how TWI governed their "congregation" as it were. Much of the brokeness and pain many of us experienced from TWI have their roots in these "unique" teachings from Acts by Wierwille and Martindale.
I have concluded, personally, that life in The Way International was not a Christian experience. In my opinion, TWI wasn't an organization that was well-intended in the beginning and just went astray due to human frailty even though I believe there were individuals that were genuine. I also believe some people were Christians and wanted to do God's will. As far as the organization of TWI, I believe they were in error from the moment they were conceived and that the lifestyle they teach is not the same as what Jesus taught.
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OldSkool
Great stuff, erkjohn!
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Gen-2
Depends on which one, there were actually several propouned over the Way's years. For instance lambano was supposed to mean to "receive into manifestation". Obviously this is a rather wide open translation which would be used to support spiritual matters. On the other hand lambano is used in the objective, in the Greek, and it is not a complete synonym with dechomai. Still, being objective, Lambano would be said to be discounted where the item received could not be held in one's hand, like love, joy peace etc.... Still God used it repeatedly concerning holy spirit, which you cannot hold in your hands. He must not know what he's doing. eh?
Weirewille played fast and loose with the definitions he gave in the class, sometimes quoting the wrong greek words or just sort of making up a definition to suit his needs. Enoch never seeing death with his own eyes, for instance. He also irritated me by mispronouncing Hebrew and Greek words.
Oh in the example of Paul being received in Jerusalem, suppose we take one of VPW's many definitions of Dechomai and see how easily the Wordsmith could have gone in any direction with his private interpretations,.... He could have said
That received (When we arrived at Jerusalem, the brothers received us warmly) meant:
Received subjectively - leading to their teaching that they didn't "openly" receive Paul, being internally deceptive towards him.
or they could use one of Wierwille's other definitions for dechomai
Received into one's heart - leading to the thought that they received Paul warmly into their hearts, in spite of the fact that he really was looking for trouble, just being in Jerusalem, they loved the man dearly and listened to him.
Wierwille's definitions were just that open to any need he might have.
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OldSkool
Personally, I think he embellished definitions to suit his teachings. I have tried to trace a lot of the definition into Thayer's, Strong's, and the like only to find that the definition cannot be traced and to be told by leadership that the definition resulted from research.
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Gen-2
Weirwille's love for this started earlier on. Those who took PFAL will remember VPW going over Versions of the Bible and how he mentioned the English Revised Version (RV) circa 1884? and the American Standard Version of 1901 as being two of the most accurate versions on the whole. The Way Bookstore stocked those versions. They also, early on carried materials from Zondervan, a Bible and Christian book publisher.
Back in the days that TV was 3 channels and Black & White, Zondervan had the rights to the American Standard version of 1901. They were working with the Lockman Foundation on a "Literal Translation According to Usage" which was based on the ASV of 1901. They began in the early 1950's and published the first complete Amplified Bible in 1965. The Way along with all Christian clients on Zondervan's "Pastor's List" received advanced copies at the end of 1964. In the PFAL Class Wierwille put that Bible to advanced use as his very own "Literal Translations According to Usage". Sometimes they were slightly altered to suit his needs, but they formed the basis of much of his early "Research", along with other plagarized works.
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Keith
I'm not sure debunked is the right word. I spent a lot of time going over those two words when I left TWI. I found the best definition for lambano was "to receive and make use of." I also found there were a lot of usages of the word lambano that where listed in the back of the RTHST book that were not the word lambano but had the word as a root. The prefex changes the whole meaing. There are also usages of the word decomai that implied the use of what was received and again prefexes change the meaning.
In regards to the basic teaching that Paul was not supposed to go to Jerusalem. Yes I believe a lot of the Christians in Jerusalem were caught up in the law. But that dosen't mean they were evil. Of course if you want to talk about being caught up in law and works, it seems TWI became just that.
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Gen-2
This is a very good point Keith. Someone in another thread asked me about words in the LXX (Septuagint) concerning servant and serve. So I cracked the books open aqand looked at the words and passed them on to her (JavaJane) in one of her threads. I included the word she would have to find in Strongs Concordance that corresponded to the words I gave her. The concordance does not list every form of the word, just one basic form.
As an example, epilambano and lambano have different meanings But most of the time, strongs lists lambano for both - which is why I am convinced that VPW did his word studies through a concordance,.... because he always glossed over the fact that the mss might have an entitely different form of the word than Strong's or Young's Concordances listed. They generally just listed one basic form of the word, no matter what variation of it was in the mss.
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Keith
I think when I went the dechomi/lambano verses using both a program called "on-line bible" and "Bibleworks 5" only about half of the usages of the word lambano were really lambano and there were usages of both words that were totally left out that really helped with understanding what they meant. Both of these are very good programs by the way and I recommend them. Bibleworks is a little more through, but costs $500. On-Line Bible is free and sometimes more versital unless you are really into the nitty-gritty of the languages.
Back to on-topic. I've often thought that TWI is almost exactly what they say Jame's ministry became.
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I doubt that James' ministry had the "law of believing" saturating the thought and prayer life of those early church believers.
Were those Jerusalem guys "believing" for a camel parking spot near the temple?
Were they "believing" for 7 newbies to sign up for their Torah class?
Were they walking around the marketplaces "believing" to witness to others?
Did their "believing" stop the rains during major events?
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Keith
Since it doesn't say much about them after the exodus...who knows.
Of course I was thinking more along the lines that TWI said Jerusalem had become very law and works oriented, and that seems to be exactly what TWI became. Different laws and works, but laws and works just the same.
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Broken Arrow
The operative word here is "they say". What TWI SAID became of James' ministry. I don't buy that what they said is accurate at all. At best, they are projecting their own falleness into the Jerusalem. However, I think it was more to point that: First there was Jesus, the Peter but he sort of fell short, still a good man, though. Then there was Paul, a REAL man of God, then he died and the light of God's Word went with him, the church sunk into Catholocism, Martin Luther turned on a lightbulb but then...TA DA!! IT SNOWS FOR VICTOR AND WE'RE SAVED!! FINALLY, FOR THE FIRST TIME SINCE THE FIRST CENTURY, WE HAVE THE TRUE WORD OF GOD!! Good thing I'm not sarcastic or anything.
It was LCM, by the way, that emphasized that the word for "receive", when the believers in Jerusalem received Paul was dechomai. It was also LCM that said the use of dechomai indicated that Paul received a cold reception from James and the others. Wierwille never taught that. He didn't correct Martindale either and this teaching came out when VP was still prez.
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Broken Arrow
I never considered that. Good point. So basically, learning the Word better than its been known since the first century was simply a country preacher doing word studies. If he saw that something had the same root, he assumed the meanings were the same. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say VP probably didn't even have a consultant that knew anything about Greek. He openly admitted that he didn't know Greek. It's on (or was on. I understand they're being edited) a SNS tape where he says he didn't know Greek. He did say, "you can't fool me on it". I remember that because I was new in the ministry at the time and was surprised that Wierwille himself was a scholar. I thought he had a doctorate in theology. This would have been sometime in 1975.
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Twinky
Not what the average church goer spends a lot of time thinking about. They'd rather just "receive" and "do" (or not) than spend time wondering what somebody 2000 years ago did (or not).
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Gen-2
Heck, I'm surprised that no one ever came up with a Greek word ready reference pamphlet listing all the Greek Words used in PFAL
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waysider
And let's not forget that Wierwille made a point of mentioning "Greek' in the CF&S class.
(OK----maybe he actually did know about that one.)
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OldSkool
That's cause he sent others, like Walter Cummings to real colleges and they knew what he didn't. How many times in University of Life tapes did VeePee turn and say "Walter?"
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chockfull
Because after all, a little Greek along with showing illicit sex tapes with dogs and prostitutes from Tijuana really help educate people on that topic. You don't really need Biblically accurate teachings or anything.
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OldSkool
Say what? (I didn't have VeePee or Lloyd's sex classes.)
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waysider
There was a section in CF&S where VPP felt it was his obligation to make sure we were up to date on all the current slang terms relating to sex. (Including "Greek".) <_<
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OldSkool
Egads. Dirty old man bringing the keeds up to date...oh boy.
We watched Carolyn Rollins "New Life" class when I was in-residentured. They had several points in the class where some of the older pillars from VeePee's day would get up to coordinate the class sessions and tell really crude, dirty jokes. It was horribly inappropriate. I think that sort of thing in that context desensitizes the participants.
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