I ran what some might call a splinter group, (I didn't think of it that way) and had a large number of people stop coming when I said something along the following.
"I don't want to here Dr. Weirwilles name mentioned in any teaching. I don't want to hear 'Dr. said....' anyone new won't know who he is and won't care. If you can show it from the word of God, I don't want to hear it."
shows, without doubt, that most of us would have been made good Nazis.
Yeah, I thought of that a lot myself. Kind of makes you understand how a lot of the Nazi's became the way they were (not the top leaders) with their unquestioning loyalty and all. Looking at Nazism from the outside one becomes appalled at the insanity of it all. We would like to think that we would never be so fooled. But, if you're in the middle of something like that yourself, you see how people slowly become conformed to the groupthink one small step at a time. In time, people are giving their money their bodies, their futures, hopes, to the group, or the party, or the gang, or whatever.
Then, when the whole thing falls to pieces, when it becomes apparent that, "the emperor has no clothes", one defends it for a time. Then maybe tries to replicate it, then hangs onto parts of it until one realizes that the whole thing has been a ruse. That's hard to take, but it's necessary to realize if one is to move on healthily. That's my opinion anyway.
One of the reasons VP was "deified" is because of his and our relative ages. Ever notice how, with few exceptions, he did not surround himself with men his own age and status?
I used to study martial arts. I had an instructor who I believe was a 4th or 5th degree black belt. That's a pretty high rank for those of you not familiar with ranking. He started practicing as a young man, I came across him when he was in his late 30's. In other words he had practiced martial arts for quite some time. In his case, he devoted his entire life to the practicing and teaching of martial arts.
We students thought he was amazing, which he was. I would watch him, and I would just marvel at what he could do with his body. To me it looked almost super human. It wasn't super human. It was the result of someone who had done something day after day for several years.
Wierwille was in his 50's when most of us were in our early and mid-20's. We weren't very seasoned, we were kids really (not "keedz" yuch!). So Wierwille could sound real educated, academic, and he could sell his arguments to us easily. What the Hell did we know? People who talked to him would be amazed at how "detail-minded" he was; how "organized" he was, "disciplined" etc. He said things we thought were so insightful and wise.
Well,duh! He had 30 years of adulthood behind him, of course he seemed "amazing" to us! I'm telling you, if we ran across him or someone like him now at our ages, we would do what most of our parents did which was to go, "Who the heck are you?" And we wouldn't do that as a result of having been in TWI, we would have picked it up because of our maturity. That's why there were almost no 50+ aged people around at that time.
a gold statue of him stands in the lobby to greet everyone who comes in.
The Way is rotten from its foundation upwards. It's not going to get any better.
Hi Java, I think you mean a bronze statue. Nevertheless, it's there, overwhelming people as they enter the auditorium. I used to give tours of the auditorium, and I always felt awkward at this part, which was the very end of the tour. In fact, it started and stopped at his statue. But at the end we talked about him, and had to point out the already very obvious five "titles" of him that were inscribed at the statue base: Father in the Word President Teacher and a couple others I forget (was it Rapist and Plagairizer?). That was the part I couldn't stand. Part of me thought it was because I never knew him. But part of me knew...it's too much HIM and not enough of God's Word. Now I know even more: not enough Jesus Christ. Why? Because VPW takes the place of the (non-)"absent" Christ. Yep, that outfit def. not getting any better.
One of the reasons VP was "deified" is because of his and our relative ages.
That's great insight, Erkjohn. That helps explains a lot with the way international's appeal to the young folks. Yet, when Time magazine did their article they basically reported him as a crackpot, yet gave credence to his work because of the numbers involved. I suppose he just wasn't that impressive to the older, non-starry eyed.
Now his memory is definitely deified. Every other word around there as reflected in all the so called present truth is Dr. Wierwille [said, did]
Well,duh! He had 30 years of adulthood behind him, of course he seemed "amazing" to us! I'm telling you, if we ran across him or someone like him now at our ages, we would do what most of our parents did which was to go, "Who the heck are you?" And we wouldn't do that as a result of having been in TWI, we would have picked it up because of our maturity. That's why there were almost no 50+ aged people around at that time.
EXACTLY......wierwille was 12 years older than my Dad.
What ever happened to the old-timers who sat thru pfal classes in the late 50s/ early 60s? Even the 'excited' people that wierwille singled out...........Rosalind Rink3r? Dr. E.E. Higgins?
Even Peter J. W@de, whom wierwille highlighted W@de's little booklet in pfal......left in the early 70s. Guess all the hype and programs didn't persuade W@de to go corps.
When PFAL '77 rolled around...........wierwille was 60 years old.
In the OSC buliding his geneology hangs in the lobby.
I remember at one time in 1984-86 it hung behind the door of one of the small rooms along the hall to the Library upstairs. I often worked in that room.
I remember many old Corps meetings when it would be clear VP was very proud of his heritage and used it, I think, to insinuate how God's hand was upon his lineage. He would harkened back to his grandfather's homeland in Ladbergen, Germany. The story goes that after hundreds of years in Ladbergen, his ancestors, who were part of the French Protestant group called Huguenots, arrived in Ohio in 1839.
Their hardship story of immigration and hard work was cast in tones that made it sound as if God's hand was upon them to eventually bring forth VP as the man of God for this day and time. One quote I happend to have from an unpublished Way tour script is this: "Most people would not have chosen this rural location for the Headquarters of a worldwide ministry; but this is the location that God prepared through His foreknowledge for the Headquarters of The Way International."
Propaganda like this was rampant and apparently still is.
Yes! I can attest to this first hand. Plus, they try to tie in some special symbolism because their coat of arms had doves in them or something.
Megalomaniac that old VeePee was. Like ole' Simon, the vicster made himself out to be some great one.
the story goes that the original coat of arms had swans on it, but VP changed it to doves because of the spiritual significance... That takes some ego to change your family's crest... Especially since it was generally given by royalty because of your family's accomplishments. I always thought that was messed up that he changed it. That it was disrespectful.
I remember at one time in 1984-86 it hung behind the door of one of the small rooms along the hall to the Library upstairs. I often worked in that room.
I remember many old Corps meetings when it would be clear VP was very proud of his heritage and used it, I think, to insinuate how God's hand was upon his lineage. He would harkened back to his grandfather's homeland in Ladbergen, Germany. The story goes that after hundreds of years in Ladbergen, his ancestors, who were part of the French Protestant group called Huguenots, arrived in Ohio in 1839.
Their hardship story of immigration and hard work was cast in tones that made it sound as if God's hand was upon them to eventually bring forth VP as the man of God for this day and time. One quote I happend to have from an unpublished Way tour script is this: "Most people would not have chosen this rural location for the Headquarters of a worldwide ministry; but this is the location that God prepared through His foreknowledge for the Headquarters of The Way International."
Propaganda like this was rampant and apparently still is.
Yes....it is.
As documented in Mrs. W's book, Born Again to Serve, the pontificating of the Wierwille heritage and the re-writing of twi's history lives on.
THE OPENING PARAGRAPH (after preface and acknowledgements)....."The Wierwille family ancestry can be traced as far back as the 1300s to a small town in northern France called Vierville-sur-Mer, translated "Wierwille by the Sea." These Viervilles were Huguenots, a group of French Protestants who staunchly resisted Roman Catholic attempts to dominate the religious and social life of France. In the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries, many Huguenots left France to escape religious persecution, the Viervilles among them." [Page 4]
<snip>
[Page 6] "The Wierwille family crest, which originated in norther France during the 1300's, was found by Dr. Wierwille in 1978 when he visited the Chateau de Creully near Vierville-sur-Mer. Dr. Wierwille slightly adapted the coat of arms by replacing three sea gulls with three doves. Otherwise, the design has remained the same for nearly seven hundred years, representing a family dedicated to God, freedom, and integrity."
See......when wierwille "slightly adapted" this family crest to ADD SPIRITUAL SIGNIFICANCE, he added, he changed it to something it was NOT.
If veepee could tweak the family crest, WHAT ELSE WAS TWEAKED FROM 1942-1982 ???
[Page 6] "The Wierwille family crest, which originated in norther France during the 1300's, was found by Dr. Wierwille in 1978 when he visited the Chateau de Creully near Vierville-sur-Mer. Dr. Wierwille slightly adapted the coat of arms by replacing three sea gulls with three doves. Otherwise, the design has remained the same for nearly seven hundred years, representing a family dedicated to God, freedom, and integrity."
I wasn't going to include Mrs. W's whole spiel on the wierwille family crest, but........
[Page 6]........"The crest bears six distinct horizontal stripes -- three blue and three silver. Blue, the color of the sky, represents God's canopy over the earth. It symbolizes fidelity, faithfulness, careful and exact observance of duty, and adherence to truth. Silver is one of the earth's precious metals and often represents treasure. Here, it symbolizes God's people, who hold His treasure (holy spirit) in earthen vessels."
"A red fascia (band) runs diagonally across the crest, binding the stripes together. The color red represents both life and death since it is the color of blood, which contains the life of the flesh."
"The doves on the center blue stripe represent God's gift of holy spirit. There are three because the number three signifies completeness. With God's gift of holy spirit given on the day of Pentecost, man can once again be complete, having body, soul, and spirit. The presence of God's spirit within the Wierwille family members is a key to their living victoriously from generation to generation until the return of Jesus Christ."
TRANSLATION.....the wierwille bloodline faithfully stood in God's presence to the fulfillment of time wherein victor paul wierwille gave his life for God's people.
All praise to docvic......for giving his eye, his life, his all.
TRANSLATION.....the wierwille bloodline faithfully stood in God's presence to the fulfillment of time wherein victor paul wierwille gave his life for God's people.
All praise to docvic......for giving his eye, his life, his all.
I feel a little sick...
Talk about comparing oneself to Jesus Christ. What, was VP GENETICALLY ENGINEERED BY GOD to be the MOGFODAT? Sounds a little like the whole "chosen race" Nazi thing to me.
Two can play this game of "the significance of the wierwille family crest."
"The Wierwille family crest, which originated in northern France during the 1300's, was found by Dr. Wierwille in 1978 when he visited the Chateau de Creully near Vierville-sur-Mer. Three seal gulls on the upper horizontal stripe represent the complete dedication of the Wierwille clan to salvage from the sea."
"The crest bears six distinct horizontal stripes -- three blue and three silver. Blue, the color of the sky, represents the open vastness from which the sea gull attacks his prey and the fisherman his catch. Silver is pocketed from the fisherman's toil and represents treasure. Together, the blue sea and silver treasure represnt the generations of wierwilles who toiled amongst the sea gulls."
"A red fascia (band) runs diagonally across the crest, binding the stripes together. The color red represents both life and death as fishermen were lost to the sea. Generation to generation the wierwilles were committed to the sea for their livlihood and their very very lives."
"The sea gulls on the center blue stripe represent the flight of life. There are three to represent the three generations of wierwilles completely dedicated to the sea. The fourth generation despised the sea and moved inland to the life of pig farming. Hence, the family crest was loathed for generations and forgotten....until a young wierwille from America 'restored' it. The generations of wierwilles by the sea is 'restored' by the cornfield clan far from the sea, far from its heritage."
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Keith
I ran what some might call a splinter group, (I didn't think of it that way) and had a large number of people stop coming when I said something along the following.
"I don't want to here Dr. Weirwilles name mentioned in any teaching. I don't want to hear 'Dr. said....' anyone new won't know who he is and won't care. If you can show it from the word of God, I don't want to hear it."
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Human without the bean
My Dad used to call him Dr. Werewolf when I was in TWI. If the name fits.
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Pax
I saw Victor sign Bibles for people. :P
He had a colossal inferiority complex (especially around the issue of IQ and scholarship).
He was NOT brilliant... he was pretty ordinary.
Most spiritually damning, he mistakenly believed he could mock God.
OK, maybe this is off topic,
let me 'get back on the ball.'
The deification of VPW....
shows, without doubt, that most of us would have been made good Nazis.
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Broken Arrow
Yeah, I thought of that a lot myself. Kind of makes you understand how a lot of the Nazi's became the way they were (not the top leaders) with their unquestioning loyalty and all. Looking at Nazism from the outside one becomes appalled at the insanity of it all. We would like to think that we would never be so fooled. But, if you're in the middle of something like that yourself, you see how people slowly become conformed to the groupthink one small step at a time. In time, people are giving their money their bodies, their futures, hopes, to the group, or the party, or the gang, or whatever.
Then, when the whole thing falls to pieces, when it becomes apparent that, "the emperor has no clothes", one defends it for a time. Then maybe tries to replicate it, then hangs onto parts of it until one realizes that the whole thing has been a ruse. That's hard to take, but it's necessary to realize if one is to move on healthily. That's my opinion anyway.
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Broken Arrow
One of the reasons VP was "deified" is because of his and our relative ages. Ever notice how, with few exceptions, he did not surround himself with men his own age and status?
I used to study martial arts. I had an instructor who I believe was a 4th or 5th degree black belt. That's a pretty high rank for those of you not familiar with ranking. He started practicing as a young man, I came across him when he was in his late 30's. In other words he had practiced martial arts for quite some time. In his case, he devoted his entire life to the practicing and teaching of martial arts.
We students thought he was amazing, which he was. I would watch him, and I would just marvel at what he could do with his body. To me it looked almost super human. It wasn't super human. It was the result of someone who had done something day after day for several years.
Wierwille was in his 50's when most of us were in our early and mid-20's. We weren't very seasoned, we were kids really (not "keedz" yuch!). So Wierwille could sound real educated, academic, and he could sell his arguments to us easily. What the Hell did we know? People who talked to him would be amazed at how "detail-minded" he was; how "organized" he was, "disciplined" etc. He said things we thought were so insightful and wise.
Well,duh! He had 30 years of adulthood behind him, of course he seemed "amazing" to us! I'm telling you, if we ran across him or someone like him now at our ages, we would do what most of our parents did which was to go, "Who the heck are you?" And we wouldn't do that as a result of having been in TWI, we would have picked it up because of our maturity. That's why there were almost no 50+ aged people around at that time.
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What About It
Hi Java, I think you mean a bronze statue. Nevertheless, it's there, overwhelming people as they enter the auditorium. I used to give tours of the auditorium, and I always felt awkward at this part, which was the very end of the tour. In fact, it started and stopped at his statue. But at the end we talked about him, and had to point out the already very obvious five "titles" of him that were inscribed at the statue base: Father in the Word
President 
Teacher 
and a couple others I forget (was it Rapist and Plagairizer?). That was the part I couldn't stand. Part of me thought it was because I never knew him. But part of me knew...it's too much HIM and not enough of God's Word. Now I know even more: not enough Jesus Christ. Why? Because VPW takes the place of the (non-)"absent" Christ. Yep, that outfit def. not getting any better.
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OldSkool
That's great insight, Erkjohn. That helps explains a lot with the way international's appeal to the young folks. Yet, when Time magazine did their article they basically reported him as a crackpot, yet gave credence to his work because of the numbers involved. I suppose he just wasn't that impressive to the older, non-starry eyed.
Now his memory is definitely deified. Every other word around there as reflected in all the so called present truth is Dr. Wierwille [said, did]
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skyrider
EXACTLY......wierwille was 12 years older than my Dad.
What ever happened to the old-timers who sat thru pfal classes in the late 50s/ early 60s? Even the 'excited' people that wierwille singled out...........Rosalind Rink3r? Dr. E.E. Higgins?
Even Peter J. W@de, whom wierwille highlighted W@de's little booklet in pfal......left in the early 70s. Guess all the hype and programs didn't persuade W@de to go corps.
When PFAL '77 rolled around...........wierwille was 60 years old.
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What About It
Hey OldSkool, what article did Time mag do?
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OldSkool
Religion: Fellow Traveling with Jesus Monday, Sep. 06, 1971
Thanks to Gen-2 for posting this elsewhere.
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Gen-2
Another Good Article is The Groovy Christians of Rye (Life Magazine May14 1971)
The Link here is to a PDF Version of the article on the Web so it will open to a PDF File (You need to have Adobe Reader)
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penworks
I remember at one time in 1984-86 it hung behind the door of one of the small rooms along the hall to the Library upstairs. I often worked in that room.
I remember many old Corps meetings when it would be clear VP was very proud of his heritage and used it, I think, to insinuate how God's hand was upon his lineage. He would harkened back to his grandfather's homeland in Ladbergen, Germany. The story goes that after hundreds of years in Ladbergen, his ancestors, who were part of the French Protestant group called Huguenots, arrived in Ohio in 1839.
Their hardship story of immigration and hard work was cast in tones that made it sound as if God's hand was upon them to eventually bring forth VP as the man of God for this day and time. One quote I happend to have from an unpublished Way tour script is this: "Most people would not have chosen this rural location for the Headquarters of a worldwide ministry; but this is the location that God prepared through His foreknowledge for the Headquarters of The Way International."
Propaganda like this was rampant and apparently still is.
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Steve Lortz
No doubt about it. The only thing left in the middle of that cornfield is the defication of V.P. Wierwille!
Love,
Steve
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OldSkool
Yes! I can attest to this first hand. Plus, they try to tie in some special symbolism because their coat of arms had doves in them or something.
Megalomaniac that old VeePee was. Like ole' Simon, the vicster made himself out to be some great one.
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JavaJane
the story goes that the original coat of arms had swans on it, but VP changed it to doves because of the spiritual significance... That takes some ego to change your family's crest... Especially since it was generally given by royalty because of your family's accomplishments. I always thought that was messed up that he changed it. That it was disrespectful.
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OldSkool
What a dildo.
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skyrider
Yes....it is.
As documented in Mrs. W's book, Born Again to Serve, the pontificating of the Wierwille heritage and the re-writing of twi's history lives on.
THE OPENING PARAGRAPH (after preface and acknowledgements)....."The Wierwille family ancestry can be traced as far back as the 1300s to a small town in northern France called Vierville-sur-Mer, translated "Wierwille by the Sea." These Viervilles were Huguenots, a group of French Protestants who staunchly resisted Roman Catholic attempts to dominate the religious and social life of France. In the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries, many Huguenots left France to escape religious persecution, the Viervilles among them." [Page 4]
<snip>
[Page 6] "The Wierwille family crest, which originated in norther France during the 1300's, was found by Dr. Wierwille in 1978 when he visited the Chateau de Creully near Vierville-sur-Mer. Dr. Wierwille slightly adapted the coat of arms by replacing three sea gulls with three doves. Otherwise, the design has remained the same for nearly seven hundred years, representing a family dedicated to God, freedom, and integrity."
See......when wierwille "slightly adapted" this family crest to ADD SPIRITUAL SIGNIFICANCE, he added, he changed it to something it was NOT.
If veepee could tweak the family crest, WHAT ELSE WAS TWEAKED FROM 1942-1982 ???
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OldSkool
It would seem that Wierwille was tweaked. That sort of thing just isn't normal.
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JavaJane
I am now wondering what the symbolism is behind a sea gull.... opportunistic garbage eater?
(Like I should talk - one side of my family's crest has severed boar's heads as its device. I guess we liked to eat a lot even way back then.)
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OldSkool
I don't know, but I could speculate "from the sea?"
near the sea?
I do like your version better. It's fitting.
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skyrider
I wasn't going to include Mrs. W's whole spiel on the wierwille family crest, but........
[Page 6]........"The crest bears six distinct horizontal stripes -- three blue and three silver. Blue, the color of the sky, represents God's canopy over the earth. It symbolizes fidelity, faithfulness, careful and exact observance of duty, and adherence to truth. Silver is one of the earth's precious metals and often represents treasure. Here, it symbolizes God's people, who hold His treasure (holy spirit) in earthen vessels."
"A red fascia (band) runs diagonally across the crest, binding the stripes together. The color red represents both life and death since it is the color of blood, which contains the life of the flesh."
"The doves on the center blue stripe represent God's gift of holy spirit. There are three because the number three signifies completeness. With God's gift of holy spirit given on the day of Pentecost, man can once again be complete, having body, soul, and spirit. The presence of God's spirit within the Wierwille family members is a key to their living victoriously from generation to generation until the return of Jesus Christ."
TRANSLATION.....the wierwille bloodline faithfully stood in God's presence to the fulfillment of time wherein victor paul wierwille gave his life for God's people.
All praise to docvic......for giving his eye, his life, his all.
<_<
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JavaJane
I feel a little sick...
Talk about comparing oneself to Jesus Christ. What, was VP GENETICALLY ENGINEERED BY GOD to be the MOGFODAT? Sounds a little like the whole "chosen race" Nazi thing to me.
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OldSkool
It's just twisted.
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skyrider
How about this?........
Two can play this game of "the significance of the wierwille family crest."
"The Wierwille family crest, which originated in northern France during the 1300's, was found by Dr. Wierwille in 1978 when he visited the Chateau de Creully near Vierville-sur-Mer. Three seal gulls on the upper horizontal stripe represent the complete dedication of the Wierwille clan to salvage from the sea."
"The crest bears six distinct horizontal stripes -- three blue and three silver. Blue, the color of the sky, represents the open vastness from which the sea gull attacks his prey and the fisherman his catch. Silver is pocketed from the fisherman's toil and represents treasure. Together, the blue sea and silver treasure represnt the generations of wierwilles who toiled amongst the sea gulls."
"A red fascia (band) runs diagonally across the crest, binding the stripes together. The color red represents both life and death as fishermen were lost to the sea. Generation to generation the wierwilles were committed to the sea for their livlihood and their very very lives."
"The sea gulls on the center blue stripe represent the flight of life. There are three to represent the three generations of wierwilles completely dedicated to the sea. The fourth generation despised the sea and moved inland to the life of pig farming. Hence, the family crest was loathed for generations and forgotten....until a young wierwille from America 'restored' it. The generations of wierwilles by the sea is 'restored' by the cornfield clan far from the sea, far from its heritage."
<_<
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