I must confess in the 90's I bought into this teaching and prayed for wayfers first and foremost.I look back at that and think "How could I have believed such a lie and been so unloving.
Absolutely!
Establishing a sequence of priority was one of the key elements of "the lift list".
edit
Here's some food for thought.
1.Leaders were supposed to be at the top of the list.
2.You were only supposed to picture the person you were "lifting" in a positive light.
3.Speaking in tongues has been proven to decrease your level of resistance to suggestibility. (Reduces your ability to think on a critical level)
Well, don't feel too badly. It's never a bad thing to pray foy someone, after all. But I hear ya,... doing it to the exclusion of everyone else is pretty weird, when you think about it. Sort of like "God is Love,...... except to THOSE people,... those stupid Christians out there." Way believers have a hard time admitting that other Christians are even part of the same family. Hey if they're not ABSing to The Way (God's REAL Household) God isn't even spitting in their direction, right?
Once, years ago ( I have 11 siblings) I asked my dad (just to see what he would say) a question; I hoped up on his lap and hugged him and said "Dad,... you really love me the most, don't you?" The look on his face was priceless, Like I just didn't get it....
I must confess in the 90's I bought into this teaching and prayed for wayfers first and foremost.I look back at that and think "How could I have believed such a lie and been so unloving.
Yep. They like to quote Galatians 6:10 on that one and laud the "especially to the household of God" above the rest of the verse. Because the interpret that to mean not do good to hardly anyone, except their dear leaders and the organization known as the way international. In retrospect, I don't even know how they call themselves Christian. They give Christ a bad name - a man who taught loving your neighbor as yourself, loving your enemies, and then gave his life to atone for the sins of the world. That's ok though it will all come clean in the wash. It already has for those who want to see it.
WHat boggles MY mind is when you consider how many tens of thousands of people were praying for those leaders and the house hold at any given moment of every day.....day after day year after year ...decades where millions and millions of hours of heartfelt prayers for these people....ugh...how utterly rediculous and completely useless was that??
Oh yeah, lcm was so much into "the household" that everything he did was about people getting into TWI and staying in TWI. You had to stand, and you had to stand with him. Everything was so slanted toward "the household," and "the household" was always the Way, the whole Way, and nothing but the Way.
Aside from that, aren't prayers in TWI just another form of "our father who art in heaven"? At the time Jesus taught it, it was a personal, humble prayer between a single individual and his heavenly father. Then of course every church prays it so it becomes meaningless ritual. Kinda like "thank you father for the household of God. Thank you father for the board of directors. Thank you father for TWI. Thank you father for bringing me laryngitis just so I don't have to pray this stupid meaningless heartless prayer in front of everyone to look good in the eyes of 'the household' anymore."
Rosie made a prayer room in the OSC a few years ago, and we printed some new "lift lists" for this room. Of course, we had to go back to the lift lists of the 70s because she's all about resurrecting VeePee's teachings and creating everything anew in his image, possibly in the hopes that we can just forget about the great torturer of the 1990s, or possibly in the hopes that the reincarnated VP will actually be idolized even more so than the on that lived in the 70s (because he's not around to drink and screw anymore?). So those lift lists started with God, then second was You, then a few lines like Your Job, Your Family, etc., then we got on to the more important matters that filled the entire page: Board of Directors, then each name of the directors and the whole "trustee household", then ministry stuff like HQ, Gunnison, Way Corps, Way classes, AC specials, yada yada yada. Way everything. Maybe if our minds and hearts were more on "the things of others" like the Bible says, then God could have added more "others" to the household. Or, maybe He does and the household isn't TWI???
Rosie made a prayer room in the OSC a few years ago, and we printed some new "lift lists" for this room. Of course, we had to go back to the lift lists of the 70s because she's all about resurrecting VeePee's teachings and creating everything anew in his image, possibly in the hopes that we can just forget about the great torturer of the 1990s, or possibly in the hopes that the reincarnated VP will actually be idolized even more so than the on that lived in the 70s (because he's not around to drink and screw anymore?). So those lift lists started with God, then second was You, then a few lines like Your Job, Your Family, etc., then we got on to the more important matters that filled the entire page: Board of Directors, then each name of the directors and the whole "trustee household", then ministry stuff like HQ, Gunnison, Way Corps, Way classes, AC specials, yada yada yada. Way everything. Maybe if our minds and hearts were more on "the things of others" like the Bible says, then God could have added more "others" to the household. Or, maybe He does and the household isn't TWI???
They even tried to control our conversations with God... how can you have a prayer from the heart when you have to include all this crap? How can you have time? Oh, yeah, I forgot... you just read the list and SIT, then you can get on with doing the five million other tasks you have to accomplish to be right with God.
Friends, that's exactly right. Absolutely! Gotta pray for these guys, the BoD, your TWI leadership at all levels, etc.
Wassmatter, didn't you ever read this verse?
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you
And who persecuted you more than the (TWI) household of God, and the leadership of TWI? <_<
And sure, it's right to pray for your leadership, your twig, your twig coordinator, and all the others...but NOT to the exclusion of everyone else.
When PoP was going down, of course I was in the dark, like so many others (though later I got some special information). I do recall praying in twig one night for (as it were) both the HQ lot and the Gartmore lot. That kinda drew some funny looks. What, I should have known about that vile paper by revelation, by telepathy, CG should have sent me a copy???
I remember a prayer list that was sooooo long. I don't remember how we got it, but everyone had one. It listed root locations, campus coords., leadership and wives names-then at the bottom of the list said "yourself." I never had enough time to get to me. I'm not a morning person.
I remember a prayer list that was sooooo long. I don't remember how we got it, but everyone had one. It listed root locations, campus coords., leadership and wives names-then at the bottom of the list said "yourself." I never had enough time to get to me. I'm not a morning person.
I remember a prayer list that was sooooo long. I don't remember how we got it, but everyone had one. It listed root locations, campus coords., leadership and wives names-then at the bottom of the list said "yourself." I never had enough time to get to me. I'm not a morning person.
makes ya wonder if that wasn't the point to the list....
You can tell us a bit about yourself in the My Story section (if you want to). You can find out a bit about some of us in the same place.
Have fun! The newspapers supplied free in this cafe are the Daily Wail, The Times of our Lives, USeful Today, the Bust'em Herald and the Wash-your-hands-of'em Post.
You can tell us a bit about yourself in the My Story section (if you want to). You can find out a bit about some of us in the same place.
Have fun! The newspapers supplied free in this cafe are the Daily Wail, The Times of our Lives, USeful Today, the Bust'em Herald and the Wash-your-hands-of'em Post.
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waysider
Absolutely!
Establishing a sequence of priority was one of the key elements of "the lift list".
edit
Here's some food for thought.
1.Leaders were supposed to be at the top of the list.
2.You were only supposed to picture the person you were "lifting" in a positive light.
3.Speaking in tongues has been proven to decrease your level of resistance to suggestibility. (Reduces your ability to think on a critical level)
Now do the math.
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Gen-2
Well, don't feel too badly. It's never a bad thing to pray foy someone, after all. But I hear ya,... doing it to the exclusion of everyone else is pretty weird, when you think about it. Sort of like "God is Love,...... except to THOSE people,... those stupid Christians out there." Way believers have a hard time admitting that other Christians are even part of the same family. Hey if they're not ABSing to The Way (God's REAL Household) God isn't even spitting in their direction, right?
Once, years ago ( I have 11 siblings) I asked my dad (just to see what he would say) a question; I hoped up on his lap and hugged him and said "Dad,... you really love me the most, don't you?" The look on his face was priceless, Like I just didn't get it....
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OldSkool
Yep. They like to quote Galatians 6:10 on that one and laud the "especially to the household of God" above the rest of the verse. Because the interpret that to mean not do good to hardly anyone, except their dear leaders and the organization known as the way international. In retrospect, I don't even know how they call themselves Christian. They give Christ a bad name - a man who taught loving your neighbor as yourself, loving your enemies, and then gave his life to atone for the sins of the world. That's ok though it will all come clean in the wash. It already has for those who want to see it.
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rascal
WHat boggles MY mind is when you consider how many tens of thousands of people were praying for those leaders and the house hold at any given moment of every day.....day after day year after year ...decades where millions and millions of hours of heartfelt prayers for these people....ugh...how utterly rediculous and completely useless was that??
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What About It
Oh yeah, lcm was so much into "the household" that everything he did was about people getting into TWI and staying in TWI. You had to stand, and you had to stand with him. Everything was so slanted toward "the household," and "the household" was always the Way, the whole Way, and nothing but the Way.
Aside from that, aren't prayers in TWI just another form of "our father who art in heaven"? At the time Jesus taught it, it was a personal, humble prayer between a single individual and his heavenly father. Then of course every church prays it so it becomes meaningless ritual. Kinda like "thank you father for the household of God. Thank you father for the board of directors. Thank you father for TWI. Thank you father for bringing me laryngitis just so I don't have to pray this stupid meaningless heartless prayer in front of everyone to look good in the eyes of 'the household' anymore."
Rosie made a prayer room in the OSC a few years ago, and we printed some new "lift lists" for this room. Of course, we had to go back to the lift lists of the 70s because she's all about resurrecting VeePee's teachings and creating everything anew in his image, possibly in the hopes that we can just forget about the great torturer of the 1990s, or possibly in the hopes that the reincarnated VP will actually be idolized even more so than the on that lived in the 70s (because he's not around to drink and screw anymore?). So those lift lists started with God, then second was You, then a few lines like Your Job, Your Family, etc., then we got on to the more important matters that filled the entire page: Board of Directors, then each name of the directors and the whole "trustee household", then ministry stuff like HQ, Gunnison, Way Corps, Way classes, AC specials, yada yada yada. Way everything. Maybe if our minds and hearts were more on "the things of others" like the Bible says, then God could have added more "others" to the household. Or, maybe He does and the household isn't TWI???
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OldSkool
Sounds closer to things!
Great post!
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JavaJane
They even tried to control our conversations with God... how can you have a prayer from the heart when you have to include all this crap? How can you have time? Oh, yeah, I forgot... you just read the list and SIT, then you can get on with doing the five million other tasks you have to accomplish to be right with God.
What a load of poop.
Prayer is so much better now that I am out.
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chockfull
+100
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Tzaia
I pray for the "household of God" first and foremost - to have eyes to see and ears to hear to break free from the bondage that holds them in a cult.
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Twinky
Friends, that's exactly right. Absolutely! Gotta pray for these guys, the BoD, your TWI leadership at all levels, etc.
Wassmatter, didn't you ever read this verse?
And who persecuted you more than the (TWI) household of God, and the leadership of TWI? <_<
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Ham
so why didn't it work? I mean.. look at rosie. Didn't change her spots any..
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Twinky
What, zackly, were you praying for, Ham? (And were you around to pray for Rosie?)
Who knows how bad they could have been WITHOUT prayers?
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Ham
No, I wasn't around to pray for the "dear".
I just don't see how she could be worse.. or any uglier..
just sayin..
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Twinky
And sure, it's right to pray for your leadership, your twig, your twig coordinator, and all the others...but NOT to the exclusion of everyone else.
When PoP was going down, of course I was in the dark, like so many others (though later I got some special information). I do recall praying in twig one night for (as it were) both the HQ lot and the Gartmore lot. That kinda drew some funny looks. What, I should have known about that vile paper by revelation, by telepathy, CG should have sent me a copy???
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Ham
reminds me of Abrahams' prayer for Sodom..
interesting.. their ugliness was not abated one bit..
so God answers the prayer, and Lot finds himself on the outside of the city walls..
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100% Free
I remember a prayer list that was sooooo long. I don't remember how we got it, but everyone had one. It listed root locations, campus coords., leadership and wives names-then at the bottom of the list said "yourself." I never had enough time to get to me. I'm not a morning person.
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OldSkool
I hear ya!
And Welcome 100% Free, glad to have you here!!
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Gen-2
makes ya wonder if that wasn't the point to the list....
Welcome to the GreaseSpot Cafe 100% Free
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100% Free
Thanks Old School and Gen-2.
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JavaJane
Welcome, 100%!! We'll get a new pot of coffee on for you. Sit down and stay a while!
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100% Free
Thanks! Better make it decaf....... : :)
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Twinky
Hi 100%. Welcome, and have a coffee and cake.
Have you been a lurker for a while?
You can tell us a bit about yourself in the My Story section (if you want to). You can find out a bit about some of us in the same place.
Have fun! The newspapers supplied free in this cafe are the Daily Wail, The Times of our Lives, USeful Today, the Bust'em Herald and the Wash-your-hands-of'em Post.
Heh heh.
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100% Free
Thanks for the coffee and cake! Delicious!
I'll take a look at the My story section. Thanks!
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waysider
Welcome aboard!
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