True, and I'm sure it is of value to many people. But my ewf's belief is that SIT is an essential spiritual manifestation -- a critical indicator -- of acceptance of Jesus as savior, i.e, you know that you're "born again" when you SIT.
Abi's statement regarding "speaking in tongues" included a caveat.
"basically harmless as long as it isn't interfering with your ability to function in life."
For some people, it DID interfere with their ability to function in life.
People used "speaking in tongues" to try to solve all sorts of real-life problems that needed realistic intervention. Things like cancer, depression, poverty, homelessness, personal safety and more. It went hand in hand with the "law of believing". And there is hard core scientific evidence that it suppresses one's ability to think critically, thus leaving one in a state of mental vulnerability. We used it in TWI to self delude ourselves into a misguided allegiance to a corrupt organization.
Yet (correct me if I'm wrong) many people in TWI faked SIT when necessary to avoid criticism or embarassment, yet remained in the organization for quite some time regardless.
edit: No you didn't lose your voice, I just messed up the quote. :)
Yet (correct me if I'm wrong) many people in TWI faked SIT when necessary to avoid criticism or embarassment, yet remained in the organization for quite some time regardless.
Yes, that has been admitted here by many that were "in"..
Loshanta, lo shanta, lo shanta,.... you betcha! Hahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!
I'm not getting that.. Is "You betcha" the interpretation? Because it seems so much shorter than your lo shantas? Oh wait.. I guess the hahaha makes it the same length..
Abi's statement regarding "speaking in tongues" included a caveat.
"basically harmless as long as it isn't interfering with your ability to function in life."
For some people, it DID interfere with their ability to function in life.
People used "speaking in tongues" to try to solve all sorts of real-life problems that needed realistic intervention. Things like cancer, depression, poverty, homelessness, personal safety and more. It went hand in hand with the "law of believing". And there is hard core scientific evidence that it suppresses one's ability to think critically, thus leaving one in a state of mental vulnerability. We used it in TWI to self delude ourselves into a misguided allegiance to a corrupt organization.
I have seen those studies too, Waysider! TWI took everything to extremes. The Bible says things should be in moderation, but there was absolutely no moderation in TWI.
What are churches role in helping people recover from abusive organizations like TWI? Are they a mandatory step? Are they the only way to live a Christian life?
Discuss.
The poster has 3 questions. One is are churches a mandatory step in recovering from groups like TWI. I would say no, and I go to church by the way. I that churchis not mandatory, but being involved in some sort of community of people is. Isolation, at least for an extended period of time, is very bad for one's soul, I think. It's impossible to lead a healthy life outside of relationship. Humans are building for relationship. You know, the old poem that says, "No man is an island". I would assume no woman is either.
The poster also asks if churches are the only way to live a Christian life. I'm going to assume the poster means a successful Christian life. While I shy away from saying things like, "the only way", I would have to answer yes. Again, no one can live this life successfully while being cut off from others. If one wants to live a Christian life, they need to be around other Christians. They need to hear others' ideas, opinion. We all need others' input here and there. Otherwise we're in danger of living a fallacy if not a dream world.
Someone asked to be shown in the Bible where it says to go to church. I could throw out a number of verses, but I'm not going to because I'm tired of the war of Bible verses. My experience is that there is never a resolution when verses start being thrown back and forth in an argument. It rarely changes anyone's mind and I have found that minds are already made up prior to the Bible verse bullets. You don't want to go to church (I know. Church is a group of people and not a building blah blah blah) then don't go. If you're a Christian I think you're missing out, but who cares what I think? It's up to you. So, no, no Bible verses.
The question, "what is the church's role...." is very loaded. So I'll just say the church's role is to simply show the love of Christ to the hurting. Most churches know very little about cults and what someone goes through when they try to come out. You bring it up, and you get a lot of blank stares. If you need to talk about TWI, come here to Greasespot.
Here's a truth. Whenever anyone gets power, they abuse. The question isn't if someone is abusing their power...they are. The question is how bad is it? This is true in business, government, religion, education and all man-made institutions. By the way, all institutions are man-made. They're either man-made or they don't exist at all. So when someone comes along and says, "This (whatever) was built by God!" No, it wasn't! At best it was built by HUMANS for the GLORY of GOD. I'm not slamming man-made institutions. I'm slamming the idea that you can have ANY insitution on this earth that is not stained by a person's greediness and selfishness.
So what is the answer? I think I know though I may be arrogant. That is, love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength; and your neighbor as yourself. Develop healthy boundaries and don't be co-dependent. Learn to say two words; "no" and "oops".
What are churches role in helping people recover from abusive organizations like TWI? Are they a mandatory step? Are they the only way to live a Christian life?
Discuss.
>The church as a whole can have a very valuable role in helping people recover from abusive organizations – IF those needing help find the right church. (Y’all know what the wrong church is like.) Where you choose to go should feel safe, give you space to do what you need to do and be who you need to be, give you time to heal.
>No, they are not a mandatory step, but they can definitely help you settle into the wider Christian body and you can explore your beliefs with other people who are not of a cult mindset.
>They aren’t “the only way” to live a Christian life: the only way to do that is to love God, his son Jesus Christ, and to do your best to keep the commandments that are applicable to us. But going to a church can help us sort out what is appropriate behavior, and offer outlets – like involvement in different facets of “church life.”
For myself, I find the church I go to very healing. Often the sermon would cause me to weep. When I first went there, tears would flood my eyes, because of the gentle and caring way the vicar presented (for lack of a better expression) his “message.” The vicar is HIGHLY educated, incredibly intelligent, and is very gentle and humble, and takes great care not to be overbearing. That’s the way the whole church is run. There are no demands for money, though they are open about finances. It took me a long time to find an offertory box at the back of the church. There is time for spontaneity within the service – prayers, a “picture” that came to a member of the congregation, a verse that occurs to someone. It’s quite a large church (perhaps not by US standards).
There are a number of people in this congregation who themselves have survived abusive churches elsewhere or have been a part of church splits (splits in a bad way, not because of growth).
One time, the vicar felt compelled to apologize to people who had been sucked into cults. He apologized on behalf of the mainstream churches and said that it was because mainstream Christianity had failed to teach properly and accurately. If mainstream Christianity had done its job, the cults and abusive organizations wouldn’t have a look-in. (Enjoy the apology, folks, it may the only one you ever get. TWI ain’t gonna do it.)
The church has a series of house groups, each of about a dozen or so people. There is no compulsion to attend. I went to one for a couple of years, till it folded for various reasons. I was clearly very odd, and one of my friends from that group told me I was so much easier to talk to now – she said they never knew what strange thing would next come out of my mouth. It enabled me to explore some ideas from TWI (especially with regard to telling others what to do), and the incredulous looks that I got at times were startling to me.
I do not believe “like mindedly” with them – they are very “trinitarian” and that’s rubbish to me – but I enjoy their obvious love for God, desire to do what His will is, and their openness and their outreach to disadvantaged groups in my city. There’s a number of people who are on the mission field for longer or shorter periods, and they are remembered and prayed for regularly. I see lives of genuine Christian service in so many facets of life, both in this country and worldwide.
I don’t do anything I don’t want to and quite often turn up late for the service – BECAUSE I CAN. I am welcomed very kindly and nobody says a thing. I can offer suggestions, and some of these have been acted on (or are in process of being acted on).
Nobody has given me any specific "counselling" but help is always available. Had I wanted some specific counselling or guidance, it would have been available. I wasn't interested, having had TWI "leadership" demanding information or interfering far too much. The kindness and patience of people in the church and in the house group was enough; that and God working in my heart.
I celebrate what we as a congregation have in common. I enjoy seeing how God has worked in other people’s lives. I don’t explore the differences much, just mull them over in my mind.
This place is great for me right now. When it ceases to be great for me – I’ll move on and find somewhere that does suit better. I believe God led me to that church; and God will lead me from it when He’s ready. The difference is: this time I’ll listen better!
When I first got out I wanted NOTHING to do with any church,put my bible away and there it stayed for years,until I had a child and wanted him to know Jesus. I didn't go to church at first but watched some 700 club shows(secretly)I would turn it off when people would come over,then I started listening to Christian music which I think ministered more to me
than Church sermons at the time.
I really like Mylon Lefever and Broken Heart,Amy Grant,Twila Paris,Kathy Trocolli, Micheal
W. Smith,Chris Eaton(whom I met at a twig in Idaho,I remember that look on his face when he saw all of us wow's there (like we were just NUTS!)but also had that sorrow in his eyes.
(like we just didn't get IT!)
I suppose everyone rushed to him with a "Green Card" :wacko:
Anyhoo! Eventually I tried many churches,choking on a lot of stuff,sitting there in the back row broken,but willing to give it a shot!
Not agreeing with alot of stuff(relearning the bible and who Jesus Christ was as Diety)
Considered going to Carolina Bible College but was too busy with babies. Eventually I found a place a non denominational chuch that didn't look like a church but like a little radio staion building,and my kids went there and we learned together,but knowing the amount of bible I knew(suppose to anyway)the church wanted me to Teach the youth group.(so I did)
I played my music still written in "code WAY" speak and they loved it.
so....I was like healing..we moved soon after and I began going to bible studies on base for Women. A group called PWOC(Protestant Women of The Chapel)which was perfect because there you had all kinds of faith based woemn from differant denominations at the bible studies
I choose to take Precepts Ministries bible studies,starting with the book of JOHN!
The onto Lord(series)it was great REWIRING from The Ways Butchered was of teaching the bible.
Currently I am not into organized religon or any one preacher,I have a wide range of how
I look at things(but the Church did help me!)
I consider myself more of a humanitarian now,that enjoys the symbolism of the Catholic Church,the teachings of Dr. Clarrissa Pinkola Estess and Caroline Myss,but on the same note
I am an Advocate to for Education of Cults(no organization ,nothing to buy or sell)
Bible says, "forsake not the fellowship of the saints." To me that means we need to get ourselves where saints congregate, and today that's pretty much in churches.
After twi I have tried to get involved with other twi-related groups but haven't been very successful. I get the email from CFF in Tipp City OH but haven't been able to make it to any of their events. I have been strapped for cash and time so I haven't made it to any of the great travel-to events I used to love.
I attend(ed) and was baptized Pentecostal (UPC) and Assembly of God and some other churches, both here in Reno and in Sacramento. And had some really nice times there. Here in Reno I was going to a Baptist church but quit because the pastor there kept criticizing Catholics and I have had enough backbiting other Christians to last me five lifetimes at least.
I did and do enjoy going to different churches. It's a different face of the Lord at each place, different facets of His strengths and our weaknesses at each place. I go to church not so much for what I can get but for just being with the Body of Christ and maybe I can contribute something. Certainly I can always pray there.
it seems that I am ending up Catholic.
I went through the Catholic introductory class -- Rite of Catholic Initiation for Adults -- RCIA -- about 16 years ago, and it's the group that I am feeling most comfortable with as time goes on. Fred recently had a personal experience with the Lord and started going with me to church and has signed up to take the RCIA class. (He has always enjoyed the church suppers!)
-- I look for fruit -- you can tell a tree by its fruit -- Some of the nicest of twi people left the Catholic church -- the Catholic church cultivated that "niceness" in them.
-- The priest doesn't yell or criticize. One time I remember hearing a priest yell and criticize, but that was a convert to Catholicism and it was many years ago.
-- People are more concerned with their own walk than yours -- There generally 5 or more services on a weekend and 7 or 8 churches in town, so no one could try to keep track of whether you went to church or not.
-- Schools, hospitals, orphanages, small businesses, farms and gardens have been started by Catholics. Community service is a life blood of a Catholic (Mother Teresa was the real deal).
-- The weekly church handout also includes a budget note of how much was collected the previous week, how the church stands with their budget. No hidden agendas. I know how much is being paid for electricity, and how much the rummage sale, church supper, and bookstore earned and what the food pantry needs.
-- I do like confession. It gives a clean start. ("Lord I am doing pretty good. I haven't hurt anyone. I haven't sinned any great sin, but I will be getting up out of bed now and I'll need your help in a big way from here on out.")
-- I do like rummage sales and church suppers and the food pantry. They do good community service and they are nice times to work with fellow church members.
-- The crucifix is a reminder that Jesus paid the price for our life. (I don't think you can successfully approach grace without His payment firmly engraved inside.
-- Each person, upon entering the Church, before he/she takes a seat, bows before the crucifix in humble acknowledgment of His paying the price for our being there.
-- Both Fred and I have Catholic backgrounds. His great grandma and grandma and my mom and her family.
What are churches role in helping people recover from abusive organizations like TWI? Are they a mandatory step? Are they the only way to live a Christian life?
Discuss.
Chock, I am not opposed to churches; if they help people. I am in a 12-Step Program, and I find it very helpful to my life. I have been in some churches that were horrible, and I have been in some that were wonderful.
For some, going to church is a wonderful thing. It offers community, a place to worship, a place to study, a place to give. However, I don't believe there is anything in the Bible that requires one to attend church.
I go to the synagogue when I am moved to do so. I am far more centered around my family, my immediate community and my friends. I am not particularly comfortable with joining a religious organization. Been there, done that. I have no desire to build my sense of community, my friendships, etc. upon little more than a common belief system. I want more common ground with my community. I want more diversity in my life. I want exposure to vastly differing opinions and beliefs.
I also do not want to feel contrained to a particular doctrine. I do not want to fear expressing a differing point of view regarding God, morals, ethics, rituals, etc.
That said, when I first left TWI, I attended a Vinyard Church for a time. I chose it specifically because I had already met the minister and he knew of TWI, what they were about, what they taught, etc. I was somewhat comfortable there, because I didn't have to explain my background, it was already understood. It was a very peaceful experience for me and I met some very kind people.
Abby, I don't want to be confined to a particular doctrine either. I want to live my life at peace with God, and others.
Abi's statement regarding "speaking in tongues" included a caveat.
"basically harmless as long as it isn't interfering with your ability to function in life."
For some people, it DID interfere with their ability to function in life.
People used "speaking in tongues" to try to solve all sorts of real-life problems that needed realistic intervention. Things like cancer, depression, poverty, homelessness, personal safety and more. It went hand in hand with the "law of believing". And there is hard core scientific evidence that it suppresses one's ability to think critically, thus leaving one in a state of mental vulnerability. We used it in TWI to self delude ourselves into a misguided allegiance to a corrupt organization.
Way, holy sheet!! You nailed it honey!! We were taught that SIT would solve most of our problems; what horse hockey!! I didn't know about the hard core scientific stuff; thanks for the information!!
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geisha779
Oh, it wasn't a sincere question? Sounded like one to me. Silly me....I must have answered sarcasm. Please continue littering up the place yourself. The last and only time I started a thread was month
chockfull
Geisha, I'm not going to get on you for sharing your Christian experience. It's a genuine experience. I am genuinely happy for you that you have found a genuine small group of Christians that you c
OldSkool
Yes, I litter up the About the Way section with topics....you guessed it, you rocket scientist you......here comes......About the Way. Even though this thread ties in somewhat. It's now pretty much an
waysider
Abi's statement regarding "speaking in tongues" included a caveat.
"basically harmless as long as it isn't interfering with your ability to function in life."
For some people, it DID interfere with their ability to function in life.
People used "speaking in tongues" to try to solve all sorts of real-life problems that needed realistic intervention. Things like cancer, depression, poverty, homelessness, personal safety and more. It went hand in hand with the "law of believing". And there is hard core scientific evidence that it suppresses one's ability to think critically, thus leaving one in a state of mental vulnerability. We used it in TWI to self delude ourselves into a misguided allegiance to a corrupt organization.
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soul searcher
Yet (correct me if I'm wrong) many people in TWI faked SIT when necessary to avoid criticism or embarassment, yet remained in the organization for quite some time regardless.
edit: No you didn't lose your voice, I just messed up the quote. :)
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Gen-2
Loshanta, lo shanta, lo shanta,.... you betcha! Hahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!
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TrustAndObey
Yes, that has been admitted here by many that were "in"..
I'm not getting that.. Is "You betcha" the interpretation? Because it seems so much shorter than your lo shantas? Oh wait.. I guess the hahaha makes it the same length..
Carry on..
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Abigail
I have seen those studies too, Waysider! TWI took everything to extremes. The Bible says things should be in moderation, but there was absolutely no moderation in TWI.
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soul searcher
Yeah, that was one thing I never fully got...
The first time I heard her SIT, it really freaked me out. Made me wonder wtf I was doing (with her).
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Broken Arrow
The poster has 3 questions. One is are churches a mandatory step in recovering from groups like TWI. I would say no, and I go to church by the way. I that churchis not mandatory, but being involved in some sort of community of people is. Isolation, at least for an extended period of time, is very bad for one's soul, I think. It's impossible to lead a healthy life outside of relationship. Humans are building for relationship. You know, the old poem that says, "No man is an island". I would assume no woman is either.
The poster also asks if churches are the only way to live a Christian life. I'm going to assume the poster means a successful Christian life. While I shy away from saying things like, "the only way", I would have to answer yes. Again, no one can live this life successfully while being cut off from others. If one wants to live a Christian life, they need to be around other Christians. They need to hear others' ideas, opinion. We all need others' input here and there. Otherwise we're in danger of living a fallacy if not a dream world.
Someone asked to be shown in the Bible where it says to go to church. I could throw out a number of verses, but I'm not going to because I'm tired of the war of Bible verses. My experience is that there is never a resolution when verses start being thrown back and forth in an argument. It rarely changes anyone's mind and I have found that minds are already made up prior to the Bible verse bullets. You don't want to go to church (I know. Church is a group of people and not a building blah blah blah) then don't go. If you're a Christian I think you're missing out, but who cares what I think? It's up to you. So, no, no Bible verses.
The question, "what is the church's role...." is very loaded. So I'll just say the church's role is to simply show the love of Christ to the hurting. Most churches know very little about cults and what someone goes through when they try to come out. You bring it up, and you get a lot of blank stares. If you need to talk about TWI, come here to Greasespot.
,
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Broken Arrow
Here's a truth. Whenever anyone gets power, they abuse. The question isn't if someone is abusing their power...they are. The question is how bad is it? This is true in business, government, religion, education and all man-made institutions. By the way, all institutions are man-made. They're either man-made or they don't exist at all. So when someone comes along and says, "This (whatever) was built by God!" No, it wasn't! At best it was built by HUMANS for the GLORY of GOD. I'm not slamming man-made institutions. I'm slamming the idea that you can have ANY insitution on this earth that is not stained by a person's greediness and selfishness.
So what is the answer? I think I know though I may be arrogant. That is, love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength; and your neighbor as yourself. Develop healthy boundaries and don't be co-dependent. Learn to say two words; "no" and "oops".
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Twinky
>The church as a whole can have a very valuable role in helping people recover from abusive organizations – IF those needing help find the right church. (Y’all know what the wrong church is like.) Where you choose to go should feel safe, give you space to do what you need to do and be who you need to be, give you time to heal.
>No, they are not a mandatory step, but they can definitely help you settle into the wider Christian body and you can explore your beliefs with other people who are not of a cult mindset.
>They aren’t “the only way” to live a Christian life: the only way to do that is to love God, his son Jesus Christ, and to do your best to keep the commandments that are applicable to us. But going to a church can help us sort out what is appropriate behavior, and offer outlets – like involvement in different facets of “church life.”
For myself, I find the church I go to very healing. Often the sermon would cause me to weep. When I first went there, tears would flood my eyes, because of the gentle and caring way the vicar presented (for lack of a better expression) his “message.” The vicar is HIGHLY educated, incredibly intelligent, and is very gentle and humble, and takes great care not to be overbearing. That’s the way the whole church is run. There are no demands for money, though they are open about finances. It took me a long time to find an offertory box at the back of the church. There is time for spontaneity within the service – prayers, a “picture” that came to a member of the congregation, a verse that occurs to someone. It’s quite a large church (perhaps not by US standards).
There are a number of people in this congregation who themselves have survived abusive churches elsewhere or have been a part of church splits (splits in a bad way, not because of growth).
One time, the vicar felt compelled to apologize to people who had been sucked into cults. He apologized on behalf of the mainstream churches and said that it was because mainstream Christianity had failed to teach properly and accurately. If mainstream Christianity had done its job, the cults and abusive organizations wouldn’t have a look-in. (Enjoy the apology, folks, it may the only one you ever get. TWI ain’t gonna do it.)
The church has a series of house groups, each of about a dozen or so people. There is no compulsion to attend. I went to one for a couple of years, till it folded for various reasons. I was clearly very odd, and one of my friends from that group told me I was so much easier to talk to now – she said they never knew what strange thing would next come out of my mouth. It enabled me to explore some ideas from TWI (especially with regard to telling others what to do), and the incredulous looks that I got at times were startling to me.
I do not believe “like mindedly” with them – they are very “trinitarian” and that’s rubbish to me – but I enjoy their obvious love for God, desire to do what His will is, and their openness and their outreach to disadvantaged groups in my city. There’s a number of people who are on the mission field for longer or shorter periods, and they are remembered and prayed for regularly. I see lives of genuine Christian service in so many facets of life, both in this country and worldwide.
I don’t do anything I don’t want to and quite often turn up late for the service – BECAUSE I CAN. I am welcomed very kindly and nobody says a thing. I can offer suggestions, and some of these have been acted on (or are in process of being acted on).
Nobody has given me any specific "counselling" but help is always available. Had I wanted some specific counselling or guidance, it would have been available. I wasn't interested, having had TWI "leadership" demanding information or interfering far too much. The kindness and patience of people in the church and in the house group was enough; that and God working in my heart.
I celebrate what we as a congregation have in common. I enjoy seeing how God has worked in other people’s lives. I don’t explore the differences much, just mull them over in my mind.
This place is great for me right now. When it ceases to be great for me – I’ll move on and find somewhere that does suit better. I believe God led me to that church; and God will lead me from it when He’s ready. The difference is: this time I’ll listen better!
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cheranne
When I first got out I wanted NOTHING to do with any church,put my bible away and there it stayed for years,until I had a child and wanted him to know Jesus. I didn't go to church at first but watched some 700 club shows(secretly)I would turn it off when people would come over,then I started listening to Christian music which I think ministered more to me
than Church sermons at the time.
I really like Mylon Lefever and Broken Heart,Amy Grant,Twila Paris,Kathy Trocolli, Micheal
W. Smith,Chris Eaton(whom I met at a twig in Idaho,I remember that look on his face when he saw all of us wow's there (like we were just NUTS!)but also had that sorrow in his eyes.
(like we just didn't get IT!)
I suppose everyone rushed to him with a "Green Card" :wacko:
Anyhoo! Eventually I tried many churches,choking on a lot of stuff,sitting there in the back row broken,but willing to give it a shot!
Not agreeing with alot of stuff(relearning the bible and who Jesus Christ was as Diety)
Considered going to Carolina Bible College but was too busy with babies. Eventually I found a place a non denominational chuch that didn't look like a church but like a little radio staion building,and my kids went there and we learned together,but knowing the amount of bible I knew(suppose to anyway)the church wanted me to Teach the youth group.(so I did)
I played my music still written in "code WAY" speak and they loved it.
so....I was like healing..we moved soon after and I began going to bible studies on base for Women. A group called PWOC(Protestant Women of The Chapel)which was perfect because there you had all kinds of faith based woemn from differant denominations at the bible studies
I choose to take Precepts Ministries bible studies,starting with the book of JOHN!
The onto Lord(series)it was great REWIRING from The Ways Butchered was of teaching the bible.
Currently I am not into organized religon or any one preacher,I have a wide range of how
I look at things(but the Church did help me!)
I consider myself more of a humanitarian now,that enjoys the symbolism of the Catholic Church,the teachings of Dr. Clarrissa Pinkola Estess and Caroline Myss,but on the same note
I am an Advocate to for Education of Cults(no organization ,nothing to buy or sell)
I just wish Peace in the hearts of people.
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Kit Sober
Bible says, "forsake not the fellowship of the saints." To me that means we need to get ourselves where saints congregate, and today that's pretty much in churches.
After twi I have tried to get involved with other twi-related groups but haven't been very successful. I get the email from CFF in Tipp City OH but haven't been able to make it to any of their events. I have been strapped for cash and time so I haven't made it to any of the great travel-to events I used to love.
I attend(ed) and was baptized Pentecostal (UPC) and Assembly of God and some other churches, both here in Reno and in Sacramento. And had some really nice times there. Here in Reno I was going to a Baptist church but quit because the pastor there kept criticizing Catholics and I have had enough backbiting other Christians to last me five lifetimes at least.
I did and do enjoy going to different churches. It's a different face of the Lord at each place, different facets of His strengths and our weaknesses at each place. I go to church not so much for what I can get but for just being with the Body of Christ and maybe I can contribute something. Certainly I can always pray there.
it seems that I am ending up Catholic.
I went through the Catholic introductory class -- Rite of Catholic Initiation for Adults -- RCIA -- about 16 years ago, and it's the group that I am feeling most comfortable with as time goes on. Fred recently had a personal experience with the Lord and started going with me to church and has signed up to take the RCIA class. (He has always enjoyed the church suppers!)
-- I look for fruit -- you can tell a tree by its fruit -- Some of the nicest of twi people left the Catholic church -- the Catholic church cultivated that "niceness" in them.
-- The priest doesn't yell or criticize. One time I remember hearing a priest yell and criticize, but that was a convert to Catholicism and it was many years ago.
-- People are more concerned with their own walk than yours -- There generally 5 or more services on a weekend and 7 or 8 churches in town, so no one could try to keep track of whether you went to church or not.
-- Schools, hospitals, orphanages, small businesses, farms and gardens have been started by Catholics. Community service is a life blood of a Catholic (Mother Teresa was the real deal).
-- The weekly church handout also includes a budget note of how much was collected the previous week, how the church stands with their budget. No hidden agendas. I know how much is being paid for electricity, and how much the rummage sale, church supper, and bookstore earned and what the food pantry needs.
-- I do like confession. It gives a clean start. ("Lord I am doing pretty good. I haven't hurt anyone. I haven't sinned any great sin, but I will be getting up out of bed now and I'll need your help in a big way from here on out.")
-- I do like rummage sales and church suppers and the food pantry. They do good community service and they are nice times to work with fellow church members.
-- The crucifix is a reminder that Jesus paid the price for our life. (I don't think you can successfully approach grace without His payment firmly engraved inside.
-- Each person, upon entering the Church, before he/she takes a seat, bows before the crucifix in humble acknowledgment of His paying the price for our being there.
-- Both Fred and I have Catholic backgrounds. His great grandma and grandma and my mom and her family.
Edited by Kit SoberLink to comment
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Human without the bean
That's great. If it feels right for you and makes you happy that's all that matters.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Chock, I am not opposed to churches; if they help people. I am in a 12-Step Program, and I find it very helpful to my life. I have been in some churches that were horrible, and I have been in some that were wonderful.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Steve, a Free-Range Babtist is what??
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Grace Valerie Claire
Bol, but I do!!
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Grace Valerie Claire
Abby, I don't want to be confined to a particular doctrine either. I want to live my life at peace with God, and others.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Abby, we have a winner!!
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Grace Valerie Claire
Way, holy sheet!! You nailed it honey!! We were taught that SIT would solve most of our problems; what horse hockey!! I didn't know about the hard core scientific stuff; thanks for the information!!
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