They had all kinds of behavior-control devices in that Way toolbox. Guilt was the one that got the most use. Fear placed a close second.
Yeah, I remember how Wierwille used to claim he could get by on 2 or 3 hours of sleep a night because he spoke in tongues so much. I suppose repeating the same one or two phrases that he had memorized, for the other 20 hours must be what drove him crazy.......Lo shanta la maka see tay.......Lo shanta la maka see tay......Lo shanta la maka see tay.....Lo shanta la maka see tay......
......Lo shanta la maka see tay.......Lo shanta la maka see tay......Lo shanta la maka see tay.....Lo shanta la maka see tay......
WHOAH!!! Just reading that energized me and I only had .... uuhhh..... 2 hours sleep.....gonna go and RE-read that now....such spiritual words....whew....temperature of believing just gets hotter and hotter around here....
Well, the Bible never cost me anything. "The word" as taught by the way international cost me a budding music career, the prime of my life being spent on advancing an abusive cult's teachings, my place of residence that I truly loved at one point so I could move around in participation in their programs, many years of missing out on my family that I had forsaken to "move the word," my identity that I had whitewashed in casually nice clothing and cliches, and damn near my life. I spent a couple of years grinding through the law of believing in an effort to bring healing to my child. I nearly committed suicide on more than one occasion because I blamed myself for his illness and the mental, emotional state brought on by the denial inherent in the way international's twisted doctrines.
In all fairness, now I have left my life is getting constantly better. I have come to grips with the changed course, have a lovely wife, awesome child and we have a great life. God and the Lord are recompensing me what the way international's locusts have eaten. They can have what I gave and I have satisfaction in the hope that they have the greater damnation for using people to advance their doctrines, which is not another.
Here, to make sure everyone does their lo-shantas I made this sticker. It's my idea! Not anyone else's. I came up with it one day when I took all my stickers to the city dump, over 3000 of them to be exact. I had read equally great stickers by equally intelligent men who just seemed to come up with different stickers.
Well, I wouldn't call the way international's lifestyle Christian, I would say it has some Christian elements. Especially at a root locale. Perhaps I could say the root locale since there is only one left?
Hey OS I didn't say that TWI's lifestyle is Christian.
But it is the lifestyle I'm doing my best to live.
And, I guess, was - before a too-long diversion via Ohio.
Oh, I'm sorry I was not implying you were. Your post got me thinking for a minute to separate the things added by the way international to a Christian lifestyle. After re-reading my post I realize I could have said that more clearly. My apologies.
Now why didn't I think of that when they were asking me that very question! But in TWI they're always trying to one-up the other person for recognition or just to show how much you did or sacrificed for "the word." I think they're better off just going to the closet like Jesus taught on praying, and there bragging to God (b/c they would never dare speak to Jesus--that's idolatry, you know) about how much they did for Him. It's a bunch of arrogance. They're the most arrogant people I've ever met. I'm enjoying a truly humble life now.
Kinda turns the whole premise of salvation into "works" instead of "faith", eh?
You got that right. LCM was the best at that one--he even outright said: Only salvation is by believing--everything else is works. That pretty much sums up the whole ministry.
I wasn't around much, after LCM took "control". I think the "works" aspect was inherent in twi. "Believing equals receiving" (tell God what to do, and how to do it)/ the WOW program - - - "You Gotta Go, To Grow"/ that sort of thing. Everything they propounded, was based on "works". If you didn't ABS faithfully (and the way they told you to do so), that "hedge of protection" wouldn't be there for you. If one was desirous of "God spitting" in their direction, give a measly 10% instead of 15% or more.
All works - - - and nothing but . I got in in 1975, and now (hindsight is 20/20) I see it's always been that way.
Perhaps someone like Waysider (who was in earlier than I), could comment on this also.
I'm betting his testimony about twi wouldn't be much different than mine.
I'm still paying for my life in twi. therapy costs for me and kids are ongoing because my ex's bullying was so reinforced by cult life that we're still fighting his toxic belief that he's the head and whatever he wants should be the way it is regardless of how anyone else feels, and I divorced him years ago.
I back-burnered my talents and career to focus on his. then I worked two jobs while in twi so he could change careers. now I can't work because of PTSD and taking care of my special needs kid while ex has virtually no responsibilities and believes he should have none because I wanted the divorce. at the time I divorced him, I was afraid to ask for what was rightfully mine because of twi doctrine that the person who walks away shouldn't get squat and fear that twi would help my ex take my kids, even after his assault and battery of me and my child.
thing is, if it wasn't for twi, I would have divorced him six months into the marriage when his narcissism first became a problem, instead of sticking around for so many years because PFAL would fix our "marriage" if I was just submissive enough. if it wasn't for twi, I would not have worked so hard to erase my independence and individuality that they said was the problem in our marriage. I would not have given up my moral convictions and I would not have silenced my right to speak. the marriage would have ended as it should have, a few months after it started.
so, I've visited two food banks in the past two days to feed my kids.
still, my life is better than it was in twi because at least no one is screaming in my face over my "unbelief" that brought me so low as to need to get food from a food bank to feed my kids.
so, I've visited two food banks in the past two days to feed my kids.
still, my life is better than it was in twi because at least no one is screaming in my face over my "unbelief" that brought me so low as to need to get food from a food bank to feed my kids.
I hope you know you're loved.. And I'm glad you're out of those screaming fits. And if you need something, don't forget you still have a great big resource like the body of Christ that can help.. (I don't want to say just me, cause I know many on here share that same view, but I'm available if you need something).
The only thing I thought of when I say this topic was..The word didn't cost me anything, but it cost God his son.
Honestly if you are looking at your walk with God in terms of cost, you're look at the wrong thing.
"the word" as we were so many times told, was the ministry and the ministry was the word.
if it was simple as what's my walk with God cost, then nothing, of course (although I'm still a spiritual agnostic). if it was really about the Word of God, then none of us would be here and there wouldn't have been a purpose for GSC.
OldSkool, TrustAndObey
your encouragement is appreciated. it's easier to deal with life's lows without the fear of twi goons dissecting my life. I can analyze my mistakes all day long without their help (read: condemnation) but then I wouldn't get anywhere new, so yay for being out of twi!
right. not selling PFAL hard enough, and what frank said:
His point made us feel like we had not given enough,when in truth we gave everything time money youth job,family,for the "previlege" to hear the "truth".
basically, vpw and lcm insulted us to the very core by telling us we weren't really good enough to sell their snake oil, and that unless we gave it all up we were pathetic losers who didn't care.
I guess I took frank's post literally, because it struck me in hindsight that we paid very dearly for that snake oil. for some of us, it literally cost everything.
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waysider
You made some really great points, Frank.
They had all kinds of behavior-control devices in that Way toolbox. Guilt was the one that got the most use. Fear placed a close second.
Yeah, I remember how Wierwille used to claim he could get by on 2 or 3 hours of sleep a night because he spoke in tongues so much. I suppose repeating the same one or two phrases that he had memorized, for the other 20 hours must be what drove him crazy.......Lo shanta la maka see tay.......Lo shanta la maka see tay......Lo shanta la maka see tay.....Lo shanta la maka see tay......
Phew!
That's enough to drive a man to drink
.
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OldSkool
WHOAH!!! Just reading that energized me and I only had .... uuhhh..... 2 hours sleep.....gonna go and RE-read that now....such spiritual words....whew....temperature of believing just gets hotter and hotter around here....
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OldSkool
Well, the Bible never cost me anything. "The word" as taught by the way international cost me a budding music career, the prime of my life being spent on advancing an abusive cult's teachings, my place of residence that I truly loved at one point so I could move around in participation in their programs, many years of missing out on my family that I had forsaken to "move the word," my identity that I had whitewashed in casually nice clothing and cliches, and damn near my life. I spent a couple of years grinding through the law of believing in an effort to bring healing to my child. I nearly committed suicide on more than one occasion because I blamed myself for his illness and the mental, emotional state brought on by the denial inherent in the way international's twisted doctrines.
In all fairness, now I have left my life is getting constantly better. I have come to grips with the changed course, have a lovely wife, awesome child and we have a great life. God and the Lord are recompensing me what the way international's locusts have eaten. They can have what I gave and I have satisfaction in the hope that they have the greater damnation for using people to advance their doctrines, which is not another.
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OldSkool
Here, to make sure everyone does their lo-shantas I made this sticker. It's my idea! Not anyone else's. I came up with it one day when I took all my stickers to the city dump, over 3000 of them to be exact. I had read equally great stickers by equally intelligent men who just seemed to come up with different stickers.
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Twinky
Dunno what a Christian lifestyle has cost me.
But the price paid to TWI was huge.
Ever hear this one, or a variation on it? (Sometime said in church-y circles to uppity leaders/pastors....)
"The congregation already has a savior - and it's not the pastor!"
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OldSkool
Well, I wouldn't call the way international's lifestyle Christian, I would say it has some Christian elements. Especially at a root locale. Perhaps I could say the root locale since there is only one left?
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Twinky
Hey OS I didn't say that TWI's lifestyle is Christian.
But it is the lifestyle I'm doing my best to live.
And, I guess, was - before a too-long diversion via Ohio.
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OldSkool
Oh, I'm sorry I was not implying you were. Your post got me thinking for a minute to separate the things added by the way international to a Christian lifestyle. After re-reading my post I realize I could have said that more clearly. My apologies.
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frank123lol
Another one,"If I'da been God I'd never done it."Implying wierwille did not have the love,patience,longsuffering of the one(jesus)
he was supposedly following.The "word" I was refering to was actually the ways word,as that is where most of us learnt it.My heart hurts as I
see how much people were tore apart for the "word"."Just don't forget all his benefits"yeah pick and choose what you want.
If I have random thoughts,well I am on my way away from the way too.You all here are great.Hel@ greasespot is more Christian than the way ever was.
"
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What About It
Now why didn't I think of that when they were asking me that very question! But in TWI they're always trying to one-up the other person for recognition or just to show how much you did or sacrificed for "the word." I think they're better off just going to the closet like Jesus taught on praying, and there bragging to God (b/c they would never dare speak to Jesus--that's idolatry, you know) about how much they did for Him. It's a bunch of arrogance. They're the most arrogant people I've ever met. I'm enjoying a truly humble life now.
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dmiller
Kinda turns the whole premise of salvation into "works" instead of "faith", eh?
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What About It
You got that right. LCM was the best at that one--he even outright said: Only salvation is by believing--everything else is works. That pretty much sums up the whole ministry.
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dmiller
I wasn't around much, after LCM took "control". I think the "works" aspect was inherent in twi. "Believing equals receiving" (tell God what to do, and how to do it)/ the WOW program - - - "You Gotta Go, To Grow"/ that sort of thing. Everything they propounded, was based on "works". If you didn't ABS faithfully (and the way they told you to do so), that "hedge of protection" wouldn't be there for you. If one was desirous of "God spitting" in their direction, give a measly 10% instead of 15% or more.
All works - - - and nothing but . I got in in 1975, and now (hindsight is 20/20) I see it's always been that way.
Perhaps someone like Waysider (who was in earlier than I), could comment on this also.
I'm betting his testimony about twi wouldn't be much different than mine.
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waysider
As Ed McMahon (or his imitators) would have said,
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potato
I'm still paying for my life in twi. therapy costs for me and kids are ongoing because my ex's bullying was so reinforced by cult life that we're still fighting his toxic belief that he's the head and whatever he wants should be the way it is regardless of how anyone else feels, and I divorced him years ago.
I back-burnered my talents and career to focus on his. then I worked two jobs while in twi so he could change careers. now I can't work because of PTSD and taking care of my special needs kid while ex has virtually no responsibilities and believes he should have none because I wanted the divorce. at the time I divorced him, I was afraid to ask for what was rightfully mine because of twi doctrine that the person who walks away shouldn't get squat and fear that twi would help my ex take my kids, even after his assault and battery of me and my child.
thing is, if it wasn't for twi, I would have divorced him six months into the marriage when his narcissism first became a problem, instead of sticking around for so many years because PFAL would fix our "marriage" if I was just submissive enough. if it wasn't for twi, I would not have worked so hard to erase my independence and individuality that they said was the problem in our marriage. I would not have given up my moral convictions and I would not have silenced my right to speak. the marriage would have ended as it should have, a few months after it started.
so, I've visited two food banks in the past two days to feed my kids.
still, my life is better than it was in twi because at least no one is screaming in my face over my "unbelief" that brought me so low as to need to get food from a food bank to feed my kids.
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OldSkool
I am so sorry to hear that. Please keep moving forward and keep up the good work!
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TrustAndObey
I hope you know you're loved.. And I'm glad you're out of those screaming fits. And if you need something, don't forget you still have a great big resource like the body of Christ that can help.. (I don't want to say just me, cause I know many on here share that same view, but I'm available if you need something).
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Keith
The only thing I thought of when I say this topic was..The word didn't cost me anything, but it cost God his son.
Honestly if you are looking at your walk with God in terms of cost, you're look at the wrong thing.
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frank123lol
It was what wierwille said,It was said that way to make us feel guilty,to stay inside said abusive cult.
My walk with God,Well if you love God with allyour heart that pretty much takes care of it.
The abusive cult left it's damage maybe it did not affect you,well good for you,read the posts ,abusive husband,unrealistic
and unhealthy lifestyle.
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potato
"the word" as we were so many times told, was the ministry and the ministry was the word.
if it was simple as what's my walk with God cost, then nothing, of course (although I'm still a spiritual agnostic). if it was really about the Word of God, then none of us would be here and there wouldn't have been a purpose for GSC.
OldSkool, TrustAndObey
your encouragement is appreciated. it's easier to deal with life's lows without the fear of twi goons dissecting my life. I can analyze my mistakes all day long without their help (read: condemnation) but then I wouldn't get anywhere new, so yay for being out of twi!
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Gen-2
In the Beginning was the Ministry and the Ministry was with God, and the Ministry was God....
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waysider
"What has the word cost you?"
Isn't this really a euphemistic way of saying, "Your efforts to sell PFAL are currently substandard. Step it up"
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potato
right. not selling PFAL hard enough, and what frank said:
basically, vpw and lcm insulted us to the very core by telling us we weren't really good enough to sell their snake oil, and that unless we gave it all up we were pathetic losers who didn't care.
I guess I took frank's post literally, because it struck me in hindsight that we paid very dearly for that snake oil. for some of us, it literally cost everything.
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excathedra
of course it did, dear potato. you are so right and so smart and so wonderful -- and so will your kids be. f him and the harley he rode in on
i couldn't even open this post it made me so sick
love you -- so many prayers and kind thoughts for you -- you are amazing you sweet potato
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