well with one exception, no matter how much money (if you want to equate that with God's favor) a person has, they all die. And "death is sickness in part or in whole". So what's the lesson,.... all rich people are evil, Some are. Some are really, really evil. Some aren't. Let's recap on How easy it is for a rich man to go to heaven, shall we? Like either a Rope or a Camel going through the eye of a needle,.... so NOT,.... right?
So Joseph (in the Old testament) is Surely going to Hell.....
You can twist this stuff around nine ways to Sunday, But the truth is I'm just going to follow Jesus' example regardless. Love God, do the best I know how to do in this life to keep his words, and place all my trust in the fact that God loves me and looks after me all the time. When People are mean to me, I still try to be nice.
I'm richer now (money-wise) than I ever thought I would be. That verse about a rich person not going to heaven weighs on me a lot sometimes,... sorry. Still it beats getting sent all over the world to get shot AT. hELL,... i DUNNO.....
I don't think that being rich makes you bad... I think the trick is not allowing success and wealth, all that good stuff that we have, to make us feel that we are superior to anyone else.
Still thinking... I got this ridiculous forwarded email that I had recieved before I left twi again recently... And it hit me completely differently than it did last time I got it. It's the one about how 911/Katrina/fill-in-the-disaster-of-the-moment emails where the author says the reason we have all these horrible thing happen in our country is because we dont't allow prayer in schools/too many homosexuals/liberals are evil. Back when I first got the email I thought, "yeah, that's right! It's all the unbelief!". Now I think, "Thatwas a horrible thing that happened to those people. No one deserves that. I should pray for them instead of thinking they did something to deserve this.". And then I delete the email.
well with one exception, no matter how much money (if you want to equate that with God's favor) a person has, they all die. And "death is sickness in part or in whole". So what's the lesson,.... all rich people are evil, Some are. Some are really, really evil. Some aren't. Let's recap on How easy it is for a rich man to go to heaven, shall we? Like either a Rope or a Camel going through the eye of a needle,.... so NOT,.... right?
So Joseph (in the Old testament) is Surely going to Hell.....
You can twist this stuff around nine ways to Sunday, But the truth is I'm just going to follow Jesus' example regardless. Love God, do the best I know how to do in this life to keep his words, and place all my trust in the fact that God loves me and looks after me all the time. When People are mean to me, I still try to be nice.
I'm richer now (money-wise) than I ever thought I would be. That verse about a rich person not going to heaven weighs on me a lot sometimes,... sorry. Still it beats getting sent all over the world to get shot AT. hELL,... i DUNNO.....
I don't think it should weigh you down Katie. I think the reason for those verses is the temptation of not needing God when we have plenty. But, God is able to prepare people's heart for wealth and to be able to handle it. It sounds, from your posts, like you do love and need the Lord. It sounds like you do serve Him with what He has blessed you with.
Wealth isn't always a blessing. Just look at people who have no need of God because they have all they could ever want. But, I really don't think that is the case with everyone....they just recognize their need for Him in other ways....
There is nothing wrong with enjoying the good things God has given you.....seems to me you are someone who can handle it.
I don't think it should weigh you down Gen-2. I think the reason for those verses is the temptation of not needing God when we have plenty. But, God is able to prepare people's heart for wealth and to be able to handle it. It sounds, from your posts, like you do love and need the Lord. It sounds like you do serve Him with what He has blessed you with.
Wealth isn't always a blessing. Just look at people who have no need of God because they have all they could ever want. But, I really don't think that is the case with everyone....they just recognize their need for Him in other ways....
Poor, rich, weak, strong, the diversity in Christ's body is important. And not one is loved less/more, blessed less/more. If anything, I tend to see that the more one has, the more responsibility comes with it. It is all God's and we are just stewards of what He has allowed us to steward. And I know I am only capable of stewarding so much responsibility. With any resource God gives, it's always a matter of how can I best utilize it for His glory. How can I use this wealth, this position, this oversight.. It can be pretty draining, thus "wealth isn't always a blessing" is definitely true. Add on top of all the responsibility, the fact that it makes it all that more easier to forget who actually owns it and be thankful and accountable to Him.
Sometimes people only see it from one side. The worlds eyes of, if I only had this or if I didn't have that problem.. The grass must be greener. Well, if it isn't this or that then it would be something else. So definitely God's point is to be thankful for what we have. And learn to use what we have for His purposes, because the more you have the more work you're given. So be thankful that God has kept your load light, or giving you the privilege to work overtime. It's all for HIM!
I read the stuff on Momentus a while back and it got me thinking about the whole mentality involved in categorizing people as victims or victors, winners or losers, and the "spiritual competition." I have also been struck recently by the same thought process in politics. That somehow those of us who are "victors" (successful, healthy, prosperous) are better people than those who are victims (unsuccessful, sick, and poor) - basically the "haves" are better than the "have nots"... So much of this thinking is involved in twi doctrine - God blesses us when we are good little believers... Bad stuff happens when we break fellowship. Break it down to its most simple form and it looks like this:
Yep, and if a person follows that logic too far outside it's own circular little bubble then Jesus, Peter, Paul and the like were some of the biggest losers out there. Crucified, thrown in jail, received public beatings, and much more. So by reason, those things happened to them when they were outside God's covering.
I don't think it should weigh you down Katie. I think the reason for those verses is the temptation of not needing God when we have plenty. But, God is able to prepare people's heart for wealth and to be able to handle it. It sounds, from your posts, like you do love and need the Lord. It sounds like you do serve Him with what He has blessed you with.
Yeah, Katie. It sounds like you are a person that absolutely must be a member of a church somewhere. After all, that's the only way the Lord functions.
Yeah, Katie. It sounds like you are a person that absolutely must be a member of a church somewhere. After all, that's the only way the Lord functions.
Yeah, Katie. It sounds like you are a person that absolutely must be a member of a church somewhere. After all, that's the only way the Lord functions.
You're taking a dig at me for what reason chockfull? I've made it pretty clear in the past that I don't attend any sort of church.
I don't think that's directed at you, Gen-2. Him and Geisha have had some lengthy discussions on the subject in the Jim Doop thread.
It was directed at me Gen-2....sorry you got caught in the fray. I am not going to derail this thread by responding or defending what I said. But, it was not you he was taking a swipe at...it was me.
You're taking a dig at me for what reason chockfull? I've made it pretty clear in the past that I don't attend any sort of church.
No digs at you. I realize you don't attend any sort of church, but geisha believes you need to in order to be a genuine Christian, and I was just trying to keep her honest when she uses flattering words like she said to you. She apparantly feels that is 'taking a swipe' at her, but I just feel that people should honestly communicate what they believe without flattering words.
Start another thread on what you think Geisha believes and why its wrong-- or "The Ultimate Fighting Final Showdown Thread" or something..
Then have it out there instead of everywhere
What Geisha believes is from her own words, pretty much all over the Jim Doop thread. I'll keep it contained to there for now out of courtesy to you guys. Actually the new thread is not a bad idea for general discussion.
I read the stuff on Momentus a while back and it got me thinking about the whole mentality involved in categorizing people as victims or victors, winners or losers, and the "spiritual competition." I have also been struck recently by the same thought process in politics. That somehow those of us who are "victors" (successful, healthy, prosperous) are better people than those who are victims (unsuccessful, sick, and poor) - basically the "haves" are better than the "have nots"... So much of this thinking is involved in twi doctrine - God blesses us when we are good little believers... Bad stuff happens when we break fellowship. Break it down to its most simple form and it looks like this:
Good behavior, good person = God's blessings = success, health, wealth (aka: The More Than Abundant Life)
simplify this further:
Success, health, wealth = good person who is blessed by God.
Now, compare to this:
Evil behavior, evil person = withholding of God's blessings = loss, sickness, poor
even simpler:
loss, sickness, poor = bad person, evil
so, pretty much God likes successful people and doesn't like poor people.
Same goes for sick people. (remember we were taught how sickness is caused by broken fellowship?)
Well, that philosophy sucks. And it is wrong, condemning, and unkind. And it's based on works, not grace. It's rooted in pride and arrogance. Might doesn't make right.
I was even told by one leader that in order for someone to be a murder victim, the victim had to be just as possessed as the murderer. Evil. This is evil. You do not blame the victim for the crime committed against them.
I guess it's convenient when you are Victor P W and you get to blame your own victims of rape. They needed it, they asked for it when they came to ask for counsel. I was healing them. Yup. Blame it on the victims.
I guess it took a Victor to make us all victims.
Although some "spiritual" people have been of the Honey & Locust crowd, living a very modest financial life. In doing so they place themselves in a position where believing God is required on a daily basis, just to get by - and to have enough to eat, and a safe place to sleep. Besides, the "starving preacher" thing brings in the donations. Some just play the role, and roll the dice: Momma needs a new pair of shoes,.... let's see if we can flex their generosity? Most preachers add in a little something, occasionally to show you how they're not rich (oh, no sir).
It's always a struggle to get the right balance of rich and poor, blessed and cursed, good and evil.
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waysider
Yes, always blame the victim.
It's such as handy, dandy way of excusing the perpetrator.
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waysider
In the news today.
"The First National Bank of Hoopyville Hts. was robbed at gunpoint today. They should have known better than to keep all that money in one place."
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Gen-2
well with one exception, no matter how much money (if you want to equate that with God's favor) a person has, they all die. And "death is sickness in part or in whole". So what's the lesson,.... all rich people are evil, Some are. Some are really, really evil. Some aren't. Let's recap on How easy it is for a rich man to go to heaven, shall we? Like either a Rope or a Camel going through the eye of a needle,.... so NOT,.... right?
So Joseph (in the Old testament) is Surely going to Hell.....
You can twist this stuff around nine ways to Sunday, But the truth is I'm just going to follow Jesus' example regardless. Love God, do the best I know how to do in this life to keep his words, and place all my trust in the fact that God loves me and looks after me all the time. When People are mean to me, I still try to be nice.
I'm richer now (money-wise) than I ever thought I would be. That verse about a rich person not going to heaven weighs on me a lot sometimes,... sorry. Still it beats getting sent all over the world to get shot AT. hELL,... i DUNNO.....
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JavaJane
I don't think that being rich makes you bad... I think the trick is not allowing success and wealth, all that good stuff that we have, to make us feel that we are superior to anyone else.
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JavaJane
Still thinking... I got this ridiculous forwarded email that I had recieved before I left twi again recently... And it hit me completely differently than it did last time I got it. It's the one about how 911/Katrina/fill-in-the-disaster-of-the-moment emails where the author says the reason we have all these horrible thing happen in our country is because we dont't allow prayer in schools/too many homosexuals/liberals are evil. Back when I first got the email I thought, "yeah, that's right! It's all the unbelief!". Now I think, "Thatwas a horrible thing that happened to those people. No one deserves that. I should pray for them instead of thinking they did something to deserve this.". And then I delete the email.
Chance and circumstance happen to all of us.
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soul searcher
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geisha779
I don't think it should weigh you down Katie. I think the reason for those verses is the temptation of not needing God when we have plenty. But, God is able to prepare people's heart for wealth and to be able to handle it. It sounds, from your posts, like you do love and need the Lord. It sounds like you do serve Him with what He has blessed you with.
Wealth isn't always a blessing. Just look at people who have no need of God because they have all they could ever want. But, I really don't think that is the case with everyone....they just recognize their need for Him in other ways....
There is nothing wrong with enjoying the good things God has given you.....seems to me you are someone who can handle it.
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TrustAndObey
Poor, rich, weak, strong, the diversity in Christ's body is important. And not one is loved less/more, blessed less/more. If anything, I tend to see that the more one has, the more responsibility comes with it. It is all God's and we are just stewards of what He has allowed us to steward. And I know I am only capable of stewarding so much responsibility. With any resource God gives, it's always a matter of how can I best utilize it for His glory. How can I use this wealth, this position, this oversight.. It can be pretty draining, thus "wealth isn't always a blessing" is definitely true. Add on top of all the responsibility, the fact that it makes it all that more easier to forget who actually owns it and be thankful and accountable to Him.
Sometimes people only see it from one side. The worlds eyes of, if I only had this or if I didn't have that problem.. The grass must be greener. Well, if it isn't this or that then it would be something else. So definitely God's point is to be thankful for what we have. And learn to use what we have for His purposes, because the more you have the more work you're given. So be thankful that God has kept your load light, or giving you the privilege to work overtime. It's all for HIM!
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OldSkool
Yep, and if a person follows that logic too far outside it's own circular little bubble then Jesus, Peter, Paul and the like were some of the biggest losers out there. Crucified, thrown in jail, received public beatings, and much more. So by reason, those things happened to them when they were outside God's covering.
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chockfull
Yeah, Katie. It sounds like you are a person that absolutely must be a member of a church somewhere. After all, that's the only way the Lord functions.
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geisha779
Oh, you want to derail this thread too?
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mstar1
Im no expert but the bible talks a heckuva lot more about the poor and taking care of the poor than it does about any other group of people...
I don't see all that many "Blessed are the successful" type of statements
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Gen-2
You're taking a dig at me for what reason chockfull? I've made it pretty clear in the past that I don't attend any sort of church.
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OldSkool
I don't think that's directed at you, Gen-2. Him and Geisha have had some lengthy discussions on the subject in the Jim Doop thread.
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geisha779
It was directed at me Gen-2....sorry you got caught in the fray. I am not going to derail this thread by responding or defending what I said. But, it was not you he was taking a swipe at...it was me.
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Gen-2
Oh,.... Well I'm sorry you two are doing that. I like both of you ~ even if you two don't.
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geisha779
:)
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chockfull
No digs at you. I realize you don't attend any sort of church, but geisha believes you need to in order to be a genuine Christian, and I was just trying to keep her honest when she uses flattering words like she said to you. She apparantly feels that is 'taking a swipe' at her, but I just feel that people should honestly communicate what they believe without flattering words.
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mstar1
take it someplace else -
There's no reason to clog up this thread too.
Start another thread on what you think Geisha believes and why its wrong-- or "The Ultimate Fighting Final Showdown Thread" or something..
Then have it out there instead of everywhere
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JavaJane
I second Mstar...
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chockfull
What Geisha believes is from her own words, pretty much all over the Jim Doop thread. I'll keep it contained to there for now out of courtesy to you guys. Actually the new thread is not a bad idea for general discussion.
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Gen-2
Although some "spiritual" people have been of the Honey & Locust crowd, living a very modest financial life. In doing so they place themselves in a position where believing God is required on a daily basis, just to get by - and to have enough to eat, and a safe place to sleep. Besides, the "starving preacher" thing brings in the donations. Some just play the role, and roll the dice: Momma needs a new pair of shoes,.... let's see if we can flex their generosity? Most preachers add in a little something, occasionally to show you how they're not rich (oh, no sir).
It's always a struggle to get the right balance of rich and poor, blessed and cursed, good and evil.
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