There was guy in my advanced class that was asked to leave. I remember in a group setting he spoke up in front of LCM about whether there were more than 5 sonship rights. Is this what you meant by failing Jim?
I failed. Let me in anyway and sent me way disciple the following fall.
So you were the guy. Really the guy I was talking about had courage to stand up to Craig. I felt for him. But Craig being Craig just barked like a mad rottweiler and tore into this guy. He spat out all kinds of vennom and sent him packing. Way to go LCM. Tear down another believer and kick him while he's down because he had the conviction and dare say something that wasn't weirwillian.
I didn't fail the test but I got in huge trouble at my advanced class for asking a question about "seemingly" contradictory teachings on the same record. I asked in my AC twig, and no one knew the answer. And they had let us know that if you have any questions, ask in your twig, and if the twig doesn't know then the coord. will ask the forehead at their "special" meeting. So my coord. asks the forehead and apparently he was livid! Lesson learned: Just Don't Question The Teachings! If mark and avoid had been a policy back then, I'd prob. been sent packing. Hmmm...maybe that wouldn't have been so bad after all.
Lesson learned: Just Don't Question The Teachings! If mark and avoid had been a policy back then, I'd prob. been sent packing. Hmmm...maybe that wouldn't have been so bad after all.
Their question submission process is designed for the questions to get lost or forgotten in the process, IMO. That and to not bother the directors. We all know how busy they are arm wrestling with the devil or dwarf tossing or whatever the hell else they do in the chalet annex besides reshuffle their papers all day.
I actually did quite well on the test. (Human, at least when I took the AC, there was a test you had to take before registering. It tested your understanding indoctrination in areas of PFAL and other classes. Your response seems to indicate that the test was done away with in later years.) It's funny, actually, because I purposely "threw" some answers about the Trinity. I knew what answer was "correct," but I wasn't certain in my own mind at that time. As I understand it, "Jesus Christ Is not God" was a weak spot for MANY applicants that year ('79), which is why VPW hit the subject so hard in that AC.
The 'fun' was going over the answers with whoever was giving it. I felt like a 'dunce' and was treated like I was 5 years old for spacing on the Bible being our ONLY reference for faith and practice.
I learned over time, that anything a leader over you said carried as much authority as the Bible, anyway.
The 'fun' was going over the answers with whoever was giving it. I felt like a 'dunce' and was treated like I was 5 years old for spacing on the Bible being our ONLY reference for faith and practice.
I learned over time, that anything a leader over you said carried as much authority as the Bible, anyway.
What I remember of the AC tests many years ago was that they tested the ability to regurgitate the collaterals. Which is almost comical. The 'blue book', the 'orange book', the 'tan book', and the 'red book' were all just consolidations of VPW's sermons, put in writing. Once they got there, it was almost a 'canonization' process. They became larger than life.
I was involved in administering those for many years too. And grading home studies. Looking back, it was an exercise in making something appear academic that really wasn't. It was turning a class series into a curriculum of sorts for those not in education. If there actually was some outside 'accreditation' or involvement in developing the curriculum to ensure some kind of standards were upheld that would have been one thing. But since there was too much ego at the top to submit themselves to any such process, all in all it was a colossal waste of time.
I learned over time, that anything a leader over you said carried as much authority as the Bible, anyway.
I have long said that the Way Corps had practically turned the motto of "It Is Written" into "It Is Position".
They have long functionally replaced "chapter and verse" with "quote, person, and title".
They used to criticize the Roman Catholic church as functioning with the priorities 1) Ex Cathedra, 2) Traditions of the Elders, and 3) the Bible in everything. However, you will never hear that criticism in modern times because that is EXACTLY how TWI functions.
I have long said that the Way Corps had practically turned the motto of "It Is Written" into "It Is Position".
That's an awesome quote. When I had only been in the way ministry for a couple years I politely told my fellowship coordinator to quit being such a hardass. He was interim corpse at the time. His response? Even after we talked over Romans? Well, "I never saw Reverend Horney worry about being kind." Ya - it was that stupid.
Starting with my apprentice year I noticed trainees competing with each other to see who could be the biggest a$$ kiss. I told myself it would stop after we graduated. Guess what. It was worse in the way corpse household. And it's really screwed up too. The double talk is nasty. On one hand they quote Victor Paul Wierwille about it's the love in the work that gives it it's worth. Then they throw around spiritual responsibility (which is a farce) to denote the greater in God's eyes - as it they know.
Then you have "Major Assignments." They get a special announcement session all their own on the STS. You are salaamed as you climb the ladder and they sneer at you when you descend. I do not care what higher up position you hold and for what reason you vacate it. There will be whispers about what you did wrong to get the demotion. THANK GOD I LEFT THAT CRAP BEHIND!!!!
And as you climb the ladder you will be treated differently. Some really feed on it. But to me it was isolation and I hated the hypocritical way I was reverenced. Mainly because I remember all the two faced comments I would hear people make about all the honchos. They are not too popular you know.
And of course the professional butt kissers are jealous...of what I have no idea. The desire the praise of men more than God.
I think (and thought at the time) that the advanced class test was just a test to see how indoctrinated you were already.
If you hadn't taken the bait so far, you were unlikely to do so with the Advanced Class. In fact, you might even see through it for the hocus-pocus that it was.
But if you "passed" the test, you were obviously a good candidate to feed more junk food and to lay more burdens upon.
Sorry to say but I don't remember any AC test. I do remember doing some home studies and possibly a test after that. It's probably better that I don't remember. I do remember having a crush on a person at the AC so that is where my main focus was as well as trying to find a little bit of privacy while sharing a room with 20 other people.
OldSkool - I found it interesting what you mentioned about Way Corps kissing up and being nasty. I often felt as though I could never be friends with Way Corps since I was only an AC grad. On Staff it seemed as though the Way Corps had their cliques. On Staff I felt as though I was back in high school again where I wasn't popular but I was faithful and I did what I needed to do. However, I was much more fearful of doing something wrong on Staff as I've seen the wrath that comes out when I opened my mouth.
I'm much more vocal now because I no longer fear anyone's verbal wrath. I can talk back or just leave.
Sorry to say but I don't remember any AC test. I do remember doing some home studies and possibly a test after that. It's probably better that I don't remember. I do remember having a crush on a person at the AC so that is where my main focus was as well as trying to find a little bit of privacy while sharing a room with 20 other people.
At a certain point they replaced the test with home studies.
And yes, for singles due to limited choice locally, many of those events are highly looked forward to from a romantic potential perspective. As well as billed as developing friends all over the world.
OldSkool - I found it interesting what you mentioned about Way Corps kissing up and being nasty. I often felt as though I could never be friends with Way Corps since I was only an AC grad. On Staff it seemed as though the Way Corps had their cliques. On Staff I felt as though I was back in high school again where I wasn't popular but I was faithful and I did what I needed to do. However, I was much more fearful of doing something wrong on Staff as I've seen the wrath that comes out when I opened my mouth.
When TWI is your employer as well as your spiritual authority, their control over individuals through fear is relatively comprehensive. It's highly likely that a number of those cliques exist for people to be able to speak freely with no fear of their words being reported up the chain.
I'm much more vocal now because I no longer fear anyone's verbal wrath. I can talk back or just leave.
Balanced
Casting off that yoke of bondage is a great thing. For those under their employment, it's hard. They've spent many years at times doing something on their resume that will not contribute towards gainful employment secularly. Some never rise above that.
OldSkool - I found it interesting what you mentioned about Way Corps kissing up and being nasty. I often felt as though I could never be friends with Way Corps since I was only an AC grad. On Staff it seemed as though the Way Corps had their cliques. On Staff I felt as though I was back in high school again where I wasn't popular but I was faithful and I did what I needed to do. However, I was much more fearful of doing something wrong on Staff as I've seen the wrath that comes out when I opened my mouth.
I'm much more vocal now because I no longer fear anyone's verbal wrath. I can talk back or just leave.
Balanced
Hiya! Welcome to the Cafe!!! Glad you are posting here!!! Woot Woot!
And you are correct. Most, not all, but most of the way corps I knew were very aware that there were seperate households within the one true household and way corpse was in the inner sanctum. One could never get too cozy with non-corps because the more religous corpse were overly-concerned about being good examples because they had no other leadership responsibilities. Some of the ones who blew off the rules wouldn't want non-corps to see them violate the two drink limit - to pick an example. It's not a level playing field and a person becomes VERY aware of the caste once they are exposed to it. It's cool to hear your perspective because I remember being treated the same when I was on Staff as apprentice corps and then how differently I was treated after I was Corpse.
Glad you are verbal, I am all ears.
When TWI is your employer as well as your spiritual authority, their control over individuals through fear is relatively comprehensive. It's highly likely that a number of those cliques exist for people to be able to speak freely with no fear of their words being reported up the chain.
Yes, I second, third , forth, infinity this statement.
I didn't fail the test but I got in huge trouble at my advanced class for asking a question about "seemingly" contradictory teachings on the same record.
Now, see, this is where you screwed up. You assumed that the AC was about the Bible and its various records. But, it was really about debuhl spurts and learning that the bogey man would gitcha if you ever left the safety of the fortress of da household. Yeah, too many pressing spiritual lessons to learn for us to be wasting time learning about the Bible and stuff. What were you thinking? That they were a research and teaching ministry? Shame on you, you rabble rousing troublemaker!
If I remember correctly, the Advanced Class exam was filled with several trick questions, which took people that knew the answers to give what they perceived to be incorrect answers. An example was "How many were crucfied with Christ? Normally as TWI members, the answer was four instead of the traditional two, but they said "two" because Wierwille research said two were crucified along with him at first and two added later. The whole idea of the question should have been the general answer to the entire issue - four. Incidently, I know and believe that theory to be incorrect anyway.
Regardless of scores, most were accepted, I believe, for monetary reasons to pay for the colleges they had at that time. That is my belief.
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outintexas
I forgot about that! What a racket.
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Human without the bean
There was guy in my advanced class that was asked to leave. I remember in a group setting he spoke up in front of LCM about whether there were more than 5 sonship rights. Is this what you meant by failing Jim?
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OldSkool
I failed. Let me in anyway and sent me way disciple the following fall.
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Human without the bean
So you were the guy. Really the guy I was talking about had courage to stand up to Craig. I felt for him. But Craig being Craig just barked like a mad rottweiler and tore into this guy. He spat out all kinds of vennom and sent him packing. Way to go LCM. Tear down another believer and kick him while he's down because he had the conviction and dare say something that wasn't weirwillian.
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waysider
Question #1
1. Do you faithfully ABS?
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OldSkool
Question #2
Do you set goals to consistently Abundantly Share (give more than 10%) ?
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What About It
I didn't fail the test but I got in huge trouble at my advanced class for asking a question about "seemingly" contradictory teachings on the same record. I asked in my AC twig, and no one knew the answer. And they had let us know that if you have any questions, ask in your twig, and if the twig doesn't know then the coord. will ask the forehead at their "special" meeting. So my coord. asks the forehead and apparently he was livid! Lesson learned: Just Don't Question The Teachings! If mark and avoid had been a policy back then, I'd prob. been sent packing. Hmmm...maybe that wouldn't have been so bad after all.
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OldSkool
Their question submission process is designed for the questions to get lost or forgotten in the process, IMO. That and to not bother the directors. We all know how busy they are arm wrestling with the devil or dwarf tossing or whatever the hell else they do in the chalet annex besides reshuffle their papers all day.
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GeorgeStGeorge
I actually did quite well on the test. (Human, at least when I took the AC, there was a test you had to take before registering. It tested your understanding indoctrination in areas of PFAL and other classes. Your response seems to indicate that the test was done away with in later years.) It's funny, actually, because I purposely "threw" some answers about the Trinity. I knew what answer was "correct," but I wasn't certain in my own mind at that time. As I understand it, "Jesus Christ Is not God" was a weak spot for MANY applicants that year ('79), which is why VPW hit the subject so hard in that AC.
George
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hiway29
The 'fun' was going over the answers with whoever was giving it. I felt like a 'dunce' and was treated like I was 5 years old for spacing on the Bible being our ONLY reference for faith and practice.
I learned over time, that anything a leader over you said carried as much authority as the Bible, anyway.
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chockfull
What I remember of the AC tests many years ago was that they tested the ability to regurgitate the collaterals. Which is almost comical. The 'blue book', the 'orange book', the 'tan book', and the 'red book' were all just consolidations of VPW's sermons, put in writing. Once they got there, it was almost a 'canonization' process. They became larger than life.
I was involved in administering those for many years too. And grading home studies. Looking back, it was an exercise in making something appear academic that really wasn't. It was turning a class series into a curriculum of sorts for those not in education. If there actually was some outside 'accreditation' or involvement in developing the curriculum to ensure some kind of standards were upheld that would have been one thing. But since there was too much ego at the top to submit themselves to any such process, all in all it was a colossal waste of time.
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OldSkool
And about as useful as a rubber crutch.
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chockfull
I have long said that the Way Corps had practically turned the motto of "It Is Written" into "It Is Position".
They have long functionally replaced "chapter and verse" with "quote, person, and title".
They used to criticize the Roman Catholic church as functioning with the priorities 1) Ex Cathedra, 2) Traditions of the Elders, and 3) the Bible in everything. However, you will never hear that criticism in modern times because that is EXACTLY how TWI functions.
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OldSkool
That's an awesome quote. When I had only been in the way ministry for a couple years I politely told my fellowship coordinator to quit being such a hardass. He was interim corpse at the time. His response? Even after we talked over Romans? Well, "I never saw Reverend Horney worry about being kind." Ya - it was that stupid.
Starting with my apprentice year I noticed trainees competing with each other to see who could be the biggest a$$ kiss. I told myself it would stop after we graduated. Guess what. It was worse in the way corpse household. And it's really screwed up too. The double talk is nasty. On one hand they quote Victor Paul Wierwille about it's the love in the work that gives it it's worth. Then they throw around spiritual responsibility (which is a farce) to denote the greater in God's eyes - as it they know.
Then you have "Major Assignments." They get a special announcement session all their own on the STS. You are salaamed as you climb the ladder and they sneer at you when you descend. I do not care what higher up position you hold and for what reason you vacate it. There will be whispers about what you did wrong to get the demotion. THANK GOD I LEFT THAT CRAP BEHIND!!!!
And as you climb the ladder you will be treated differently. Some really feed on it. But to me it was isolation and I hated the hypocritical way I was reverenced. Mainly because I remember all the two faced comments I would hear people make about all the honchos. They are not too popular you know.
And of course the professional butt kissers are jealous...of what I have no idea. The desire the praise of men more than God.
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Twinky
I think (and thought at the time) that the advanced class test was just a test to see how indoctrinated you were already.
If you hadn't taken the bait so far, you were unlikely to do so with the Advanced Class. In fact, you might even see through it for the hocus-pocus that it was.
But if you "passed" the test, you were obviously a good candidate to feed more junk food and to lay more burdens upon.
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Guest Balanced
Sorry to say but I don't remember any AC test. I do remember doing some home studies and possibly a test after that. It's probably better that I don't remember. I do remember having a crush on a person at the AC so that is where my main focus was as well as trying to find a little bit of privacy while sharing a room with 20 other people.
OldSkool - I found it interesting what you mentioned about Way Corps kissing up and being nasty. I often felt as though I could never be friends with Way Corps since I was only an AC grad. On Staff it seemed as though the Way Corps had their cliques. On Staff I felt as though I was back in high school again where I wasn't popular but I was faithful and I did what I needed to do. However, I was much more fearful of doing something wrong on Staff as I've seen the wrath that comes out when I opened my mouth.
I'm much more vocal now because I no longer fear anyone's verbal wrath. I can talk back or just leave.
Balanced
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chockfull
At a certain point they replaced the test with home studies.
And yes, for singles due to limited choice locally, many of those events are highly looked forward to from a romantic potential perspective. As well as billed as developing friends all over the world.
When TWI is your employer as well as your spiritual authority, their control over individuals through fear is relatively comprehensive. It's highly likely that a number of those cliques exist for people to be able to speak freely with no fear of their words being reported up the chain.
Casting off that yoke of bondage is a great thing. For those under their employment, it's hard. They've spent many years at times doing something on their resume that will not contribute towards gainful employment secularly. Some never rise above that.
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OldSkool
Hiya! Welcome to the Cafe!!! Glad you are posting here!!! Woot Woot!
And you are correct. Most, not all, but most of the way corps I knew were very aware that there were seperate households within the one true household and way corpse was in the inner sanctum. One could never get too cozy with non-corps because the more religous corpse were overly-concerned about being good examples because they had no other leadership responsibilities. Some of the ones who blew off the rules wouldn't want non-corps to see them violate the two drink limit - to pick an example. It's not a level playing field and a person becomes VERY aware of the caste once they are exposed to it. It's cool to hear your perspective because I remember being treated the same when I was on Staff as apprentice corps and then how differently I was treated after I was Corpse.
Glad you are verbal, I am all ears.
Yes, I second, third , forth, infinity this statement.
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waysider
Now, see, this is where you screwed up. You assumed that the AC was about the Bible and its various records. But, it was really about debuhl spurts and learning that the bogey man would gitcha if you ever left the safety of the fortress of da household. Yeah, too many pressing spiritual lessons to learn for us to be wasting time learning about the Bible and stuff. What were you thinking? That they were a research and teaching ministry? Shame on you, you rabble rousing troublemaker!
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Eagle
If I remember correctly, the Advanced Class exam was filled with several trick questions, which took people that knew the answers to give what they perceived to be incorrect answers. An example was "How many were crucfied with Christ? Normally as TWI members, the answer was four instead of the traditional two, but they said "two" because Wierwille research said two were crucified along with him at first and two added later. The whole idea of the question should have been the general answer to the entire issue - four. Incidently, I know and believe that theory to be incorrect anyway.
Regardless of scores, most were accepted, I believe, for monetary reasons to pay for the colleges they had at that time. That is my belief.
Eagle
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OldSkool
Good insight, Eagle.
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