But let me get to my point. It's simples....this is WRONG! I spent years going through my excessively long "thank you" list only to lose all desire to pray............. I allowed this garbage to KILL my prayer life. Damnable heresy!
Oh yeah,.... Funny that, - When someone does something nice for you, always remember to thank them. But if someone thanks you for something you haven't done yet, don't they look the fool to you?
Well a "Wish List" is just unbiblical..... and we don't want it to sound as if we don't believe God, and with all those Ministry things you had to do...... well, you just never had the time to do much about the things on your "thank-you list". My experience teaches me that in life, the things that I don't spend any time on, God keeps in store for me for later on,.... But the things I openly pursue,.... God delightfully makes available to me somehow or another.
Oh yeah,.... Funny that, - When someone does something nice for you, always remember to thank them. But if someone thanks you for something you haven't done yet, don't they look the fool to you?
Geeesh, you think that would be "just good common horse sense."
Seriously, thanks for adding common sense into the mix. It helps.
So what about these guys like Steve Covey? He's real big on setting goals and stuff like that as are a lot of guys. I'm not rebuttling you by the way. I really want to know. I think about this a lot.
Also, have you ever heard of Neuro Linguistic Programming? What about that? Anybody have any experience with that? I've read a couple of books and I find NLP rather intriguing but then again, I've already proven my propensity to being pulled into a cult.
So what about these guys like Steve Covey? He's real big on setting goals and stuff like that as are a lot of guys. I'm not rebuttling you by the way. I really want to know. I think about this a lot.
I think there is nothing wrong with setting goals, visualizing them, focusing on them, etc. But to take those methods and say when prayers aren't answered it's your fault for not concentrating hard enough. Victor Paul Wierwille wrote in one of his books that if you allow something to break or detract your concentration then you will get blurred results to prayer.
The Bible teaches that God answers prayers and we are never told to concentrate on them, only to keep praying. God is God and knows what we want / need before we pray. He doesn't need us to concentrate until it happens. We need to trust him to answer out prayers. But to say that if your prayers aren't answered because you didn't concentrate hard enough is EVIL and un-biblical. So that leads a person to conclude that if my prayers are answered then I concentrated properly, thus answering my own prayer, thus claiming God's promises, or whatever.
Setting Goals is a vital part of succeeding. That's my opinion. But I say this because I know many successful people and I have always known them to set goals. But they also spend time working towards those goals, regardless of how wisely or stupidly they arrived there, none of them got there without doing something to get there.
As far as your Neurons go. They're yours to fire up as you wish, but no,... I've never seen any method work other than individual motivation to use those neurons,... But I've seen a lot of scams. That's where people other than you get rich off the stupidity, and/or gullibility of others --- Unless you're the one doing the scamming... if it was such a good deal - we'd all be doing it - the secret to success is no real secret - hard work and desire!
Nothing really replaces individual thoughts and actions in pursuit of a goal. If it's something God likes and you ask him for help, stuff happens if you pay attention, that really just shouldn't. After you learn to keep them peepers open you'll be thanking God more often, and it will be for what he's done for you. After repeating this procedure a few times, you'll get used to the pattern, and get better at it, and you'll start to understand Providence.
Like I said, That's my opinion. But I've succeeded, definitely not worried about bills anymore. What do I know...
Setting Goals is a vital part of succeeding. That's my opinion. But I say this because I know many successful people and I have always known them to set goals. But they also spend time working towards those goals, regardless of how wisely or stupidly they arrived there, none of them got there without doing something to get there.
As far as your Neurons go. They're yours to fire up as you wish, but no,... I've never seen any method work other than individual motivation to use those neurons,... But I've seen a lot of scams. That's where people other than you get rich off the stupidity, and/or gullibility of others --- Unless you're the one doing the scamming... if it was such a good deal - we'd all be doing it - the secret to success is no real secret - hard work and desire!
Nothing really replaces individual thoughts and actions in pursuit of a goal. If it's something God likes and you ask him for help, stuff happens if you pay attention, that really just shouldn't. After you learn to keep them peepers open you'll be thanking God more often, and it will be for what he's done for you. After repeating this procedure a few times, you'll get used to the pattern, and get better at it, and you'll start to understand Providence.
Like I said, That's my opinion. But I've succeeded, definitely not worried about bills anymore. What do I know...
I love it, and respect what you have done and think it stands to speak on it's own.
Set goals, work toward them, be committed to succeed. Great stuff!
ASK for God's help in prayer and let him help, thank for what he did, not what he will do. That helps.
So what about these guys like Steve Covey? He's real big on setting goals and stuff like that as are a lot of guys. I'm not rebuttling you by the way. I really want to know. I think about this a lot.
Also, have you ever heard of Neuro Linguistic Programming? What about that? Anybody have any experience with that? I've read a couple of books and I find NLP rather intriguing but then again, I've already proven my propensity to being pulled into a cult.
Steve Covey, in particular, to me comes off as he is more big on selling books on setting goals. Of course, to publish books there are tons of goal setting deadlines involved. It's kind of a topic that isn't too hard to write on, and he makes a lot of money from it.
Never heard of NLP. But there are basic concepts most of these things work off of.
Positive affirmation, positive confession, positive visualization are all good things. Most successful top athletes, businessmen, people do some form of these things. The problem there gets into the over-emphasis on these things alone as opposed to the hard work that is necessary for success in each specific area. People make really stupid claims in these areas. Visualizing lifting weights doesn't build muscle. Visualizing running doesn't build cardio. Same with anything else worthwhile in life.
One interesting author, Malcolm Gladwell, in his book Outliers, talks about the "Law of 10,000". The concept being 10,000 hours being the minimum to master something. He gives examples like the Beatles and Bill Gates. Gates had access early on to 10,000 hours of computer time that was normally way too expensive for an individual. The Beatles played 10,000 hours of gigs in Liverpool. That book is not a bad one to check out as kind of a realism check on all the "mind picture" success books.
So what about these guys like Steve Covey? He's real big on setting goals and stuff like that as are a lot of guys. I'm not rebuttling you by the way. I really want to know. I think about this a lot.
Also, have you ever heard of Neuro Linguistic Programming? What about that? Anybody have any experience with that? I've read a couple of books and I find NLP rather intriguing but then again, I've already proven my propensity to being pulled into a cult.
As an unashamed self-help junkie, I have a whole collection of pretty much every motivational speaker and writer out there, including almost everything Steve Covey has written. There's something to glean from them all. I think NLP is fascinating and have looked into that as well. I've delved into Daniel Goleman's work on emotional intelligence. However, I have found Bruce Lipton's work in the biology of perception, belief, and spontaneous social evolution the most interesting to date.
I don't look at these things as being an end-all. They're tools. Personally, I think NLP's co-discoverer Bandler is crass in the way VPW was.
And that is my point exactly. I have no problem with any of the visualization techniques of their own merit. It's when they are sold as the "great key" to tapping the resources of God that get me started. If a person wants to meditate on what they desire in silent prayer I have no qualms. After all, it's their personal walk with God and the Lord - not mine. Just don't tell me my prayers were not answered because I did not visualize the outcome enough. Not that you have done any of these things, cause obviously you haven't. I just want to be clear what I started the thread about, etc. I enjoyed you post, btw!
Thank everybody. Those were all very helpful comments. I guess I was/am stuck in an either/or mindset. I'm going to check out the book you recommended Tzai. Chockful, I read Malcolm's book Outliers and found it fascinating as is his earlier book Blink: The Power of Thinking Without Thinking.
Ever notice how hard it is to make good stuff happen? Gotta get the camera angle just so, make sure the focus is crisp, allow for proper exposure time, yada--yada---yada---yada---yada
But for bad stuff?? piece of cake!! Just let your concentration get just a teensy bit out focus for just a second, speak a "negative" or two and--------BAM!! You got it, baby!
"What you're confessin', you're possessin'----What you look at, you become."
"If a man says, 'I'll be dead this time next year', guess what, he'll be dead. Have to be. Why? because it's a law. Works every time for saint and sinner alike. If I was a bettin' man, I'd put money on it."-----VP Wierwille (moderately paraphrased)
Thank everybody. Those were all very helpful comments. I guess I was/am stuck in an either/or mindset. I'm going to check out the book you recommended Tzai. Chockful, I read Malcolm's book Outliers and found it fascinating as is his earlier book Blink: The Power of Thinking Without Thinking.
Thanks again everyone!
There are a couple of things that no book is going to teach you that make all the difference. All those other books contain a lot of principles that can be helpful, but Enthusiasm and Ambition cannot be taught, and without them, I have seen people let their goals fritter away. Some of them lose patience and chase a new dream every so often (their ship is always coming in - next time's gonna be the ticket - etc.) while some stay rock-solid where they are claiming how "faithful" they are being in the storm of life - but they never get off their A$$ and chase their dream.
It's something you have to try on your own, something you have to strike your own balance on, but it's worth figuring out.
And one other thing:
To make money, you have to really like people, or you have to like taking ADVANTAGE of them (I've seen both work pretty equally). I'm not sure why God allows that, but He obviously does. But picking one or the other is essential to being successful financially.
Ever notice how hard it is to make good stuff happen? Gotta get the camera angle just so, make sure the focus is crisp, allow for proper exposure time, yada--yada---yada---yada---yada
I had never thought about that. But now that you mention it. I suppose if you follow the way international's logic it's because of the fall of man. Of course you would have to ignore their other teachings that say the believer had the advantage in the law of believing because of the spirit of God within. You'd also have to ignore scripture that says greater is he than he that is in the world. But, hey, contradictions are ok in the way international because we aren't supposed to exercise critical thinking in the first place. In fact we never want to be critical, it's just a negative confession.
Seriously though, it makes me wonder if that's just not part of the control the wield to keep us in fear and moving to the beat of the drummer. Keep us giving faithfully because "we just have to keep at it to see the results"...know what I mean?
I mean it wouldn't be because they magnify the devil or anything...
I know John Juedes covered this very well so I won't drag it on. But let me get to my point. It's simples....this is WRONG! I spent years going through my excessively long "thank you" list only to lose all desire to pray. I used to cringe in fellowship when others prayed their "thank you father" prayers. When I first got involved with the way international I used to love to pray. I asked much and asked often and thanked God for his goodness and praised him with an open heart. I allowed this garbage to KILL my prayer life. Damnable heresy!
O.K....done dancing on my soapbox now.
I really enjoyed this soapbox, it is something I personally relate to...and the difference between my prayer life now as opposed to what it was in TWI is similar to what you have described. Maybe, if there is a "key" to prayer, it is exactly what you have said.....an open heart. I don't think it is so much claiming the things of God, but believing that He is .....letting Him show us who He is....and knowing He is able. It isn't really about our needs IMO...but, about His will. Doesn't that come when we love Him....and know a tiny bit of His glory? We kinda of fade away in the face of God's majesty or see how short we fall and repent.
There is peace in faith....because it is God and He is... and He is able....so, no matter what...I can trust Him....I know He is faithful and He proves time and again.
I cringe a bit when I think of some of the things I "demanded" of God in TWI .... but, again, He is very patient and gracious!
There are a couple of things that no book is going to teach you that make all the difference. All those other books contain a lot of principles that can be helpful, but Enthusiasm and Ambition cannot be taught, and without them, I have seen people let their goals fritter away. Some of them lose patience and chase a new dream every so often (their ship is always coming in - next time's gonna be the ticket - etc.) while some stay rock-solid where they are claiming how "faithful" they are being in the storm of life - but they never get off their A$$ and chase their dream.
It's something you have to try on your own, something you have to strike your own balance on, but it's worth figuring out.
And one other thing:
To make money, you have to really like people, or you have to like taking ADVANTAGE of them (I've seen both work pretty equally). I'm not sure why God allows that, but He obviously does. But picking one or the other is essential to being successful financially.
I like this thread. 2 thumbs up!!!! There's a healthy balance between all the visualization and mental images of success, confessions, and the work necessary to succeed. To me, God and believing are involved because it's my personal relationship with God in prayer that's wrapped up in it. I get it straight with the Father what I should be pursuing first and get convinced. Then my prayer life is a continual source of motivation and inspiration. And then it's just a healthy dose of good 'ole fashioned hard work. Actually the more amazing thing to me lately is just how hard you should work at it. The people that are seeing success over their peers in endeavors I see putting in a SIGNIFICANT amount of work over and above.
The lie, the trap, the false premise that is portrayed by this "law of believing", as well as all the self-help mind-game philosophies and products is that it teaches people to focus their efforts in the wrong place, to translate the efforts into focus on the human mind as opposed to the actual endeavor. It's a pipe dream and fool's gold that people construct spending all their efforts on their 'perfect' visualization technique and mind game as opposed to spending the bulk of their effort 'getting after it' in what they are pursuing. Yes you can succeed, and yes it will take more effort to do so than you might have first thought.
And absolutely prayer life can be misguided in this fashion. God doesn't need endless repetition to understand the desires of our heart. I mean look at our relationship with our kids. They don't need to come up and say "daddy, daddy, daddy, mommy, mommy, mommy" 8 million times to have a conversation with us where we understand their needs and wants. If they bring it up in coversation 8 or 9 times during a 2 week period we pretty much get the picture what they are intersted in and looking for. God probably knows this even before we specifically address it with him. So IMO prayer life and believing shouldn't involve all this camera analogy mind game self help psychosis, but just be a healthy interpersonal relationship with our Father. And put your efforts into where they belong - the task at hand - what you are 'believing for, or to accomplish'.
If we want something from God, it behooves us to play our part, too. We can't just be a-prayin' about things. A bit like someone saying, I want good health, I want to be healed of such and such an illness ...but never bothering to wash oneself or clean one's teeth or do any kind of "preventive" work. We might say we want good health...but then our actions negate that.
And likewise, with other things, we can refuse to take appropriate action. We don't knock on the doors, don't write the letter, don't do our best in the job we've got... So we "claim" something with our mouths, but our actions (hearts) show otherwise.
It reminded me of this:
James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Were we, perhaps, tricked into saying to our own selves, "depart in peace, be warmed and filled" and not doing what was needful to our own bodies? Not doing what we needed, to get on in life? Not putting in the study, the hard work, the - whatever - to succeed in secular terms, but rather, expecting God to magically make what we wanted, come to pass? because we were so busy "studying the Word" (gag) which is more important?
So, then, as we did all that Bible study, weren't we "earning" a response from God, rather than allowing his grace to bring it to pass?
Shouldn't it be that, we get stuck into our normal daily life, or prepare for our activities, or whatever...always mindful of God's love and grace, always keeping him and what we perceive as his will, right in the forefront of our thinking and activities. That's just living "heartily as unto the Lord." And that gives God scope to bring us before those who can help us, to those who will open doors.
For example, Joseph in prison in Egypt probably prayed a lot for release - but he also got on with the business of helping others, getting involved in their lives, developing his people-skills. He didn't sit in his cell all day hiding from the world - or on his knees praying (Genesis 39-41).
Just think about that...do you reckon VPW got his eye removed...by a "believer" who believed God to "work in him" and move his fingers in the right place to carry out the surgery - or do you suppose the surgeon had practiced and practiced and practiced, and made sure he was as skillful as possible when he worked on patients?
I do believe that prayer works.
I do believe that God can go over and above anything that we pray for.
And I do believe that some prayers require considerable "input" from us.
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OldSkool
But where in the Bible does it ever say to hold mental pictures in concentration and the clearer you imagery the more powerful the results?
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chockfull
Actually, there is only one legitimate way that this will work. And since I've had my funny bone struck tonight, I will describe it.
First, you take the camera and shove it up your ...
Then, you take pictures.
Then, when the pictures are developed and you investigate them, you realize that where you are now is a lot better than where you could be.
Thus, you are released from your prisons.
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OldSkool
ROFLMAO!!!!
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Tzaia
Sounds kind of like a colonoscopy.
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OldSkool
At least that works.
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Gen-2
Oh yeah,.... Funny that, - When someone does something nice for you, always remember to thank them. But if someone thanks you for something you haven't done yet, don't they look the fool to you?
Well a "Wish List" is just unbiblical..... and we don't want it to sound as if we don't believe God, and with all those Ministry things you had to do...... well, you just never had the time to do much about the things on your "thank-you list". My experience teaches me that in life, the things that I don't spend any time on, God keeps in store for me for later on,.... But the things I openly pursue,.... God delightfully makes available to me somehow or another.
What's the old Saying?
Wish in one hand and ____ in the other?
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OldSkool
Geeesh, you think that would be "just good common horse sense."
Seriously, thanks for adding common sense into the mix. It helps.
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Broken Arrow
So what about these guys like Steve Covey? He's real big on setting goals and stuff like that as are a lot of guys. I'm not rebuttling you by the way. I really want to know. I think about this a lot.
Also, have you ever heard of Neuro Linguistic Programming? What about that? Anybody have any experience with that? I've read a couple of books and I find NLP rather intriguing but then again, I've already proven my propensity to being pulled into a cult.
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OldSkool
I think there is nothing wrong with setting goals, visualizing them, focusing on them, etc. But to take those methods and say when prayers aren't answered it's your fault for not concentrating hard enough. Victor Paul Wierwille wrote in one of his books that if you allow something to break or detract your concentration then you will get blurred results to prayer.
The Bible teaches that God answers prayers and we are never told to concentrate on them, only to keep praying. God is God and knows what we want / need before we pray. He doesn't need us to concentrate until it happens. We need to trust him to answer out prayers. But to say that if your prayers aren't answered because you didn't concentrate hard enough is EVIL and un-biblical. So that leads a person to conclude that if my prayers are answered then I concentrated properly, thus answering my own prayer, thus claiming God's promises, or whatever.
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Gen-2
Setting Goals is a vital part of succeeding. That's my opinion. But I say this because I know many successful people and I have always known them to set goals. But they also spend time working towards those goals, regardless of how wisely or stupidly they arrived there, none of them got there without doing something to get there.
As far as your Neurons go. They're yours to fire up as you wish, but no,... I've never seen any method work other than individual motivation to use those neurons,... But I've seen a lot of scams. That's where people other than you get rich off the stupidity, and/or gullibility of others --- Unless you're the one doing the scamming... if it was such a good deal - we'd all be doing it - the secret to success is no real secret - hard work and desire!
Nothing really replaces individual thoughts and actions in pursuit of a goal. If it's something God likes and you ask him for help, stuff happens if you pay attention, that really just shouldn't. After you learn to keep them peepers open you'll be thanking God more often, and it will be for what he's done for you. After repeating this procedure a few times, you'll get used to the pattern, and get better at it, and you'll start to understand Providence.
Like I said, That's my opinion. But I've succeeded, definitely not worried about bills anymore. What do I know...
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OldSkool
I love it, and respect what you have done and think it stands to speak on it's own.
Set goals, work toward them, be committed to succeed. Great stuff!
ASK for God's help in prayer and let him help, thank for what he did, not what he will do. That helps.
That helps me a lot. Thanks!
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chockfull
Steve Covey, in particular, to me comes off as he is more big on selling books on setting goals. Of course, to publish books there are tons of goal setting deadlines involved. It's kind of a topic that isn't too hard to write on, and he makes a lot of money from it.
Never heard of NLP. But there are basic concepts most of these things work off of.
Positive affirmation, positive confession, positive visualization are all good things. Most successful top athletes, businessmen, people do some form of these things. The problem there gets into the over-emphasis on these things alone as opposed to the hard work that is necessary for success in each specific area. People make really stupid claims in these areas. Visualizing lifting weights doesn't build muscle. Visualizing running doesn't build cardio. Same with anything else worthwhile in life.
One interesting author, Malcolm Gladwell, in his book Outliers, talks about the "Law of 10,000". The concept being 10,000 hours being the minimum to master something. He gives examples like the Beatles and Bill Gates. Gates had access early on to 10,000 hours of computer time that was normally way too expensive for an individual. The Beatles played 10,000 hours of gigs in Liverpool. That book is not a bad one to check out as kind of a realism check on all the "mind picture" success books.
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Tzaia
As an unashamed self-help junkie, I have a whole collection of pretty much every motivational speaker and writer out there, including almost everything Steve Covey has written. There's something to glean from them all. I think NLP is fascinating and have looked into that as well. I've delved into Daniel Goleman's work on emotional intelligence. However, I have found Bruce Lipton's work in the biology of perception, belief, and spontaneous social evolution the most interesting to date.
I don't look at these things as being an end-all. They're tools. Personally, I think NLP's co-discoverer Bandler is crass in the way VPW was.
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OldSkool
And that is my point exactly. I have no problem with any of the visualization techniques of their own merit. It's when they are sold as the "great key" to tapping the resources of God that get me started. If a person wants to meditate on what they desire in silent prayer I have no qualms. After all, it's their personal walk with God and the Lord - not mine. Just don't tell me my prayers were not answered because I did not visualize the outcome enough. Not that you have done any of these things, cause obviously you haven't. I just want to be clear what I started the thread about, etc. I enjoyed you post, btw!
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Broken Arrow
Thank everybody. Those were all very helpful comments. I guess I was/am stuck in an either/or mindset. I'm going to check out the book you recommended Tzai. Chockful, I read Malcolm's book Outliers and found it fascinating as is his earlier book Blink: The Power of Thinking Without Thinking.
Thanks again everyone! :)
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waysider
Ever notice how hard it is to make good stuff happen? Gotta get the camera angle just so, make sure the focus is crisp, allow for proper exposure time, yada--yada---yada---yada---yada
But for bad stuff?? piece of cake!! Just let your concentration get just a teensy bit out focus for just a second, speak a "negative" or two and--------BAM!! You got it, baby!
"What you're confessin', you're possessin'----What you look at, you become."
"If a man says, 'I'll be dead this time next year', guess what, he'll be dead. Have to be. Why? because it's a law. Works every time for saint and sinner alike. If I was a bettin' man, I'd put money on it."-----VP Wierwille (moderately paraphrased)
Good stuff = hard to get
Bad stuff = easy to get
(It's spiritual.)
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Gen-2
There are a couple of things that no book is going to teach you that make all the difference. All those other books contain a lot of principles that can be helpful, but Enthusiasm and Ambition cannot be taught, and without them, I have seen people let their goals fritter away. Some of them lose patience and chase a new dream every so often (their ship is always coming in - next time's gonna be the ticket - etc.) while some stay rock-solid where they are claiming how "faithful" they are being in the storm of life - but they never get off their A$$ and chase their dream.
It's something you have to try on your own, something you have to strike your own balance on, but it's worth figuring out.
And one other thing:
To make money, you have to really like people, or you have to like taking ADVANTAGE of them (I've seen both work pretty equally). I'm not sure why God allows that, but He obviously does. But picking one or the other is essential to being successful financially.
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OldSkool
I had never thought about that. But now that you mention it. I suppose if you follow the way international's logic it's because of the fall of man. Of course you would have to ignore their other teachings that say the believer had the advantage in the law of believing because of the spirit of God within. You'd also have to ignore scripture that says greater is he than he that is in the world. But, hey, contradictions are ok in the way international because we aren't supposed to exercise critical thinking in the first place. In fact we never want to be critical, it's just a negative confession.
Seriously though, it makes me wonder if that's just not part of the control the wield to keep us in fear and moving to the beat of the drummer. Keep us giving faithfully because "we just have to keep at it to see the results"...know what I mean?
I mean it wouldn't be because they magnify the devil or anything...
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geisha779
I really enjoyed this soapbox, it is something I personally relate to...and the difference between my prayer life now as opposed to what it was in TWI is similar to what you have described. Maybe, if there is a "key" to prayer, it is exactly what you have said.....an open heart. I don't think it is so much claiming the things of God, but believing that He is .....letting Him show us who He is....and knowing He is able. It isn't really about our needs IMO...but, about His will. Doesn't that come when we love Him....and know a tiny bit of His glory? We kinda of fade away in the face of God's majesty or see how short we fall and repent.
There is peace in faith....because it is God and He is... and He is able....so, no matter what...I can trust Him....I know He is faithful and He proves time and again.
I cringe a bit when I think of some of the things I "demanded" of God in TWI .... but, again, He is very patient and gracious!
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OldSkool
Amen!
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Broken Arrow
Thanks Gen! Great thread Olk Skool!
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chockfull
I like this thread. 2 thumbs up!!!! There's a healthy balance between all the visualization and mental images of success, confessions, and the work necessary to succeed. To me, God and believing are involved because it's my personal relationship with God in prayer that's wrapped up in it. I get it straight with the Father what I should be pursuing first and get convinced. Then my prayer life is a continual source of motivation and inspiration. And then it's just a healthy dose of good 'ole fashioned hard work. Actually the more amazing thing to me lately is just how hard you should work at it. The people that are seeing success over their peers in endeavors I see putting in a SIGNIFICANT amount of work over and above.
The lie, the trap, the false premise that is portrayed by this "law of believing", as well as all the self-help mind-game philosophies and products is that it teaches people to focus their efforts in the wrong place, to translate the efforts into focus on the human mind as opposed to the actual endeavor. It's a pipe dream and fool's gold that people construct spending all their efforts on their 'perfect' visualization technique and mind game as opposed to spending the bulk of their effort 'getting after it' in what they are pursuing. Yes you can succeed, and yes it will take more effort to do so than you might have first thought.
And absolutely prayer life can be misguided in this fashion. God doesn't need endless repetition to understand the desires of our heart. I mean look at our relationship with our kids. They don't need to come up and say "daddy, daddy, daddy, mommy, mommy, mommy" 8 million times to have a conversation with us where we understand their needs and wants. If they bring it up in coversation 8 or 9 times during a 2 week period we pretty much get the picture what they are intersted in and looking for. God probably knows this even before we specifically address it with him. So IMO prayer life and believing shouldn't involve all this camera analogy mind game self help psychosis, but just be a healthy interpersonal relationship with our Father. And put your efforts into where they belong - the task at hand - what you are 'believing for, or to accomplish'.
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OldSkool
You're welcome!
I have really learned a lot from all the responses. Thanks all! (not that we're done or anything.)
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Twinky
If we want something from God, it behooves us to play our part, too. We can't just be a-prayin' about things. A bit like someone saying, I want good health, I want to be healed of such and such an illness ...but never bothering to wash oneself or clean one's teeth or do any kind of "preventive" work. We might say we want good health...but then our actions negate that.
And likewise, with other things, we can refuse to take appropriate action. We don't knock on the doors, don't write the letter, don't do our best in the job we've got... So we "claim" something with our mouths, but our actions (hearts) show otherwise.
It reminded me of this:
Were we, perhaps, tricked into saying to our own selves, "depart in peace, be warmed and filled" and not doing what was needful to our own bodies? Not doing what we needed, to get on in life? Not putting in the study, the hard work, the - whatever - to succeed in secular terms, but rather, expecting God to magically make what we wanted, come to pass? because we were so busy "studying the Word" (gag) which is more important?
So, then, as we did all that Bible study, weren't we "earning" a response from God, rather than allowing his grace to bring it to pass?
Shouldn't it be that, we get stuck into our normal daily life, or prepare for our activities, or whatever...always mindful of God's love and grace, always keeping him and what we perceive as his will, right in the forefront of our thinking and activities. That's just living "heartily as unto the Lord." And that gives God scope to bring us before those who can help us, to those who will open doors.
For example, Joseph in prison in Egypt probably prayed a lot for release - but he also got on with the business of helping others, getting involved in their lives, developing his people-skills. He didn't sit in his cell all day hiding from the world - or on his knees praying (Genesis 39-41).
Just think about that...do you reckon VPW got his eye removed...by a "believer" who believed God to "work in him" and move his fingers in the right place to carry out the surgery - or do you suppose the surgeon had practiced and practiced and practiced, and made sure he was as skillful as possible when he worked on patients?
I do believe that prayer works.
I do believe that God can go over and above anything that we pray for.
And I do believe that some prayers require considerable "input" from us.
Our lives should be prayers in action.
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