What About It, welcome to the Cafe. We're nearly all TWI-survivors here and even those who aren't survivors have been affected in some way. This is a safe space for you to explore new ideas and you may find your ideas change quite a lot over the next few months. Your opinion will be respected, if you present it respectfully (it's even okay to be angry!). You may find threads on a lot of topics that you have questions about. The search function at the top of the page might help you locate those threads. Useful articles can be accessed via the front page, too. Prepare to be shocked at what you read.
Life's great! Confusing, but definitely better out than in. For the moment, have a cup of coffee and relax a while.
This 'bribe' thing has always killed me. It was after my time, but so typical. Just what were they supposed to be 'bribed' for ? Payment to not get your face melted every other day ? Courting favors from leaders? What kind of 'favors'? What a wonderful attitude to have towards all of God's people, to think that we were all looking to pull a 'fast one' or something.
It all just doesn't make any sense, yet it all made perverted Way sense.
Thanks, Twinky. I've read a bit here and there, but not a whole lot. I'm just figuring out the site. I finally understand all the food and coffee pics and quotes--now that's funny! I'll see what I can come up with, although imagination isn't my greatest asset. Hopefully GSC will help me sort a few things out and see how other people have gotten over it. One reason I'm here on GSC is for change, so I'd welcome my ideas changing in the next few months. I'm definitely not over it, but you're right--life is good and definitely better out than in.
This 'bribe' thing has always killed me. It was after my time, but so typical. Just what were they supposed to be 'bribed' for ? Payment to not get your face melted every other day ? Courting favors from leaders? What kind of 'favors'? What a wonderful attitude to have towards all of God's people, to think that we were all looking to pull a 'fast one' or something.
It all just doesn't make any sense, yet it all made perverted Way sense.
What a sick sick outfit.
Well most of the corps weren't being paid, and those that were were getting a pittance, This is the same fivehead (Oh c'mon it was more than four by that time - lol) that demanded allegiance I pledge allegiance to the Craig,...... Now if you're not buttering their bread, and demand their servitude, and you see some guy over there buttering their bread,...... Well that could screw up the entire arrangement! Dont'cha Know?
The "no gifts/bribe" policy came in when (field) people were offered old computers, sofas, old cars, etc, by members of their twigs, businesses they'd worked with, etc. It was aimed more at non-TWI people giving things to (in particular) field Corps.
Very unfair, because field Corps didn't have a lot of income to begin with. They had to be self-funding (before field Corps were taken onto the staff payroll...and shortly thereafter all taken off the staff payroll, LOL), but because of TWI responsibilities found it difficult to maintain well-paying jobs. They were not allowed to take full time jobs (why would you want to pursue a career, when the greatness of God's Word was at stake? And to pursue a career that the WC person might have had before WC was seen as "returning to vomit").
Very unfair, because only a few years earlier, being given equipment would have been seen as "God blessing you" and providing for your needs.
Very unfair, because this "no gifts" policy was to show those outside the Way that their contributions were not required. We're not beggars, you know! But in fact ... we were.
It was in this context that the bribes/devil spirits thing came in - in context of gifts (of physical things) from non-Wayfers to field Corps.
And so, instead of letting people just give where they had what would ease another's need, the giving from sheer generosity of heart was actively discouraged.
As to gifts for leaders, class coordinators, etc, from grateful Wayfers, that didn't come in till a couple of years later. And then LCM said that it was because gifts were getting too extravagant and it wasn't appropriate. (It sounded good at the time.) I've an idea that a limit on the value of such gifts was set. But who was it that was getting the gifts? You know it! Probably because his closet was full of fancy suits or his garage full of posh cars.
Unfair, because monetary gifts were still given to LCM, as a thank you even for taped classes, where his physical presence was never seen. Not to the coordinators of those classes, mind, who had done all the work.
It even morphed intonot being able to contribute as a group to buy anything foe anyone... For instance: someone wants to get a new married couple a wedding gift that is out of their price range, so they go in with another couple to purchase it. Nothing wrong with that, right??
WRONG. Because the other couple was wing coerced into buying the present because it wasn't their idea. They wouldn't be giving freely.
And you also weren't supposed to put your wedding registry info in your invitations because it was asking for a gift.
And it just goes on and on... More and more legalism.
It may not have been to this extreme everywhere, but it was where I was. My husband and I got called on the carpet over the gift policy, and since my husband couldn't wrap his brain around how convoluted the whole thing was we heard every possible situation explained in detail.
The "no gifts/bribe" policy came in when (field) people were offered old computers, sofas, old cars, etc, by members of their twigs, businesses they'd worked with, etc. It was aimed more at non-TWI people giving things to (in particular) field Corps.
Very unfair, because field Corps didn't have a lot of income to begin with. They had to be self-funding (before field Corps were taken onto the staff payroll...and shortly thereafter all taken off the staff payroll, LOL), but because of TWI responsibilities found it difficult to maintain well-paying jobs. They were not allowed to take full time jobs (why would you want to pursue a career, when the greatness of God's Word was at stake? And to pursue a career that the WC person might have had before WC was seen as "returning to vomit").
Very unfair, because only a few years earlier, being given equipment would have been seen as "God blessing you" and providing for your needs.
Very unfair, because this "no gifts" policy was to show those outside the Way that their contributions were not required. We're not beggars, you know! But in fact ... we were.
It was in this context that the bribes/devil spirits thing came in - in context of gifts (of physical things) from non-Wayfers to field Corps.
And so, instead of letting people just give where they had what would ease another's need, the giving from sheer generosity of heart was actively discouraged.
As to gifts for leaders, class coordinators, etc, from grateful Wayfers, that didn't come in till a couple of years later. And then LCM said that it was because gifts were getting too extravagant and it wasn't appropriate. (It sounded good at the time.) I've an idea that a limit on the value of such gifts was set. But who was it that was getting the gifts? You know it! Probably because his closet was full of fancy suits or his garage full of posh cars.
Unfair, because monetary gifts were still given to LCM, as a thank you even for taped classes, where his physical presence was never seen. Not to the coordinators of those classes, mind, who had done all the work.
Been there, done that, have the Top Ramen packages. Well, actually no I don't. I threw those out.
...muzzle the Ox that treads the Corn... That's how it's done in the cornfield. You want a swimming pool? Maybe a nice sailboat... a sailboat would be nice, wouldn't it? a nice house? Oh, c'mon we need to use the ABS for the truly important things. So,... nothing's changed really. The Way doesn't pay anyone fairly enough to buy a house. I mean, a mortgage is out of the question, and a lifetime of service isn't enough to buy even a modest house.
Suppose you had a house. Someone would come up with the bright idea that you didn't need a house to live, and that you should sell it and give the money to the Way (not folow RR's example). I thought it was strange that the said mortgages were "debt",... so to be debt free you had to sell your house and rent, in which case you owed the landlord once a month, and had nothing to show for it at the end. Really backwards thinking.
So what do you do if God blesses you? give it all away and ask fo more? What is the point to that Way of Abundance? Ping-Pong with God?
Someone would come up with the bright idea that you didn't need a house to live...
Exactly! They say things like:
You don't need to own your own home--you just need a place to live [but it must be big enough to run classes and have adequate parking, because don't dare charge room rental fees to HQ for a class].
You don't need to own a new-model car--you just need to get from point A to point B reliably.
You don't need to own things when you can just borrow them from others [hmmm...others who OWN them???].
They say ownership is egotistical and that when you own more stuff then you have to invest the time and money into taking care of all that stuff. Oh, okay, so let's just borrow from other people and let them invest the time and money? That's really nice, huh? One of the goofiest things I ever read on home ownership was a newspaper quote of a Way Corps person who said that when you rent then you don't have to pay all the maintenance expenses and property taxes on your property. WTF??? Do you really think those expenses aren't getting passed on to you, you dumb a$$? As for me, I now own a home for the first time in my life (with my hubby of course), and it's the best feeling ever. I love having my very own place. We painted all the walls with color because I'm so sick of apartment-white walls that I could just choke.
I was actually thankful for the no gift policy when it came out.
I thought it was pretty stupid after the 10th time of taking PFAL or the new class that they still looked at you weird if you didn't contribute to the gift given to the class coord. and/or the MOG who taped it.
Then after the no-gift policy, even more stupid (for me) was making those home-made thank you cards.. Even when we were in Corpse training, every regurgitated class especially those you'd been through a zillion times (maybe minus one, lol) and you were expected to give a thank you card... Worthless in my opinion. Course while in-rez they went through my thank-you cards with a fine tooth comb and would give me a face melting over any misspelt word, punctuation, or they just thought it lacked heart..
Course, unfortunately, the no-gift ploicy didn't seem to include all those "extra" perks the Corpse "asked" you to help them with their household chores!
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Twinky
What About It, welcome to the Cafe. We're nearly all TWI-survivors here and even those who aren't survivors have been affected in some way. This is a safe space for you to explore new ideas and you may find your ideas change quite a lot over the next few months. Your opinion will be respected, if you present it respectfully (it's even okay to be angry!). You may find threads on a lot of topics that you have questions about. The search function at the top of the page might help you locate those threads. Useful articles can be accessed via the front page, too. Prepare to be shocked at what you read.
Life's great! Confusing, but definitely better out than in. For the moment, have a cup of coffee and relax a while.
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hiway29
This 'bribe' thing has always killed me. It was after my time, but so typical. Just what were they supposed to be 'bribed' for ? Payment to not get your face melted every other day ? Courting favors from leaders? What kind of 'favors'? What a wonderful attitude to have towards all of God's people, to think that we were all looking to pull a 'fast one' or something.
It all just doesn't make any sense, yet it all made perverted Way sense.
What a sick sick outfit.
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What About It
Thanks, Twinky. I've read a bit here and there, but not a whole lot. I'm just figuring out the site. I finally understand all the food and coffee pics and quotes--now that's funny! I'll see what I can come up with, although imagination isn't my greatest asset. Hopefully GSC will help me sort a few things out and see how other people have gotten over it. One reason I'm here on GSC is for change, so I'd welcome my ideas changing in the next few months. I'm definitely not over it, but you're right--life is good and definitely better out than in.
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waysider
A little welcoming "gift".
(You don't have to give it back.)
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What About It
Thanks, Waysider! But, do I have to write you a thank you card?
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waysider
NOPE!!
You don't even have to tell me it "blessed you" and you "learned a spiritual lesson from it".
In fact, please don't!
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Ham
I can understand this..
took bribes from ole rosie the supplier.. she sunk his sorry rear.. fed him a steady stream of women, and gawd knows what else..
not that he wouldn't have done it to himself eventually.. back in the good old days, apparently he could "fend" for himself..
what a lunatic. Is there any surprise he could come up with such "stoopid" ideas?
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Gen-2
Well most of the corps weren't being paid, and those that were were getting a pittance, This is the same fivehead (Oh c'mon it was more than four by that time - lol) that demanded allegiance I pledge allegiance to the Craig,...... Now if you're not buttering their bread, and demand their servitude, and you see some guy over there buttering their bread,...... Well that could screw up the entire arrangement! Dont'cha Know?
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Twinky
The "no gifts/bribe" policy came in when (field) people were offered old computers, sofas, old cars, etc, by members of their twigs, businesses they'd worked with, etc. It was aimed more at non-TWI people giving things to (in particular) field Corps.
Very unfair, because field Corps didn't have a lot of income to begin with. They had to be self-funding (before field Corps were taken onto the staff payroll...and shortly thereafter all taken off the staff payroll, LOL), but because of TWI responsibilities found it difficult to maintain well-paying jobs. They were not allowed to take full time jobs (why would you want to pursue a career, when the greatness of God's Word was at stake? And to pursue a career that the WC person might have had before WC was seen as "returning to vomit").
Very unfair, because only a few years earlier, being given equipment would have been seen as "God blessing you" and providing for your needs.
Very unfair, because this "no gifts" policy was to show those outside the Way that their contributions were not required. We're not beggars, you know! But in fact ... we were.
It was in this context that the bribes/devil spirits thing came in - in context of gifts (of physical things) from non-Wayfers to field Corps.
And so, instead of letting people just give where they had what would ease another's need, the giving from sheer generosity of heart was actively discouraged.
As to gifts for leaders, class coordinators, etc, from grateful Wayfers, that didn't come in till a couple of years later. And then LCM said that it was because gifts were getting too extravagant and it wasn't appropriate. (It sounded good at the time.) I've an idea that a limit on the value of such gifts was set. But who was it that was getting the gifts? You know it! Probably because his closet was full of fancy suits or his garage full of posh cars.
Unfair, because monetary gifts were still given to LCM, as a thank you even for taped classes, where his physical presence was never seen. Not to the coordinators of those classes, mind, who had done all the work.
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JavaJane
It even morphed intonot being able to contribute as a group to buy anything foe anyone... For instance: someone wants to get a new married couple a wedding gift that is out of their price range, so they go in with another couple to purchase it. Nothing wrong with that, right??
WRONG. Because the other couple was wing coerced into buying the present because it wasn't their idea. They wouldn't be giving freely.
And you also weren't supposed to put your wedding registry info in your invitations because it was asking for a gift.
And it just goes on and on... More and more legalism.
It may not have been to this extreme everywhere, but it was where I was. My husband and I got called on the carpet over the gift policy, and since my husband couldn't wrap his brain around how convoluted the whole thing was we heard every possible situation explained in detail.
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chockfull
Been there, done that, have the Top Ramen packages. Well, actually no I don't. I threw those out.
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Gen-2
...muzzle the Ox that treads the Corn... That's how it's done in the cornfield. You want a swimming pool? Maybe a nice sailboat... a sailboat would be nice, wouldn't it? a nice house? Oh, c'mon we need to use the ABS for the truly important things. So,... nothing's changed really. The Way doesn't pay anyone fairly enough to buy a house. I mean, a mortgage is out of the question, and a lifetime of service isn't enough to buy even a modest house.
Suppose you had a house. Someone would come up with the bright idea that you didn't need a house to live, and that you should sell it and give the money to the Way (not folow RR's example). I thought it was strange that the said mortgages were "debt",... so to be debt free you had to sell your house and rent, in which case you owed the landlord once a month, and had nothing to show for it at the end. Really backwards thinking.
So what do you do if God blesses you? give it all away and ask fo more? What is the point to that Way of Abundance? Ping-Pong with God?
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What About It
Exactly! They say things like:
They say ownership is egotistical and that when you own more stuff then you have to invest the time and money into taking care of all that stuff. Oh, okay, so let's just borrow from other people and let them invest the time and money? That's really nice, huh? One of the goofiest things I ever read on home ownership was a newspaper quote of a Way Corps person who said that when you rent then you don't have to pay all the maintenance expenses and property taxes on your property. WTF??? Do you really think those expenses aren't getting passed on to you, you dumb a$$? As for me, I now own a home for the first time in my life (with my hubby of course), and it's the best feeling ever. I love having my very own place. We painted all the walls with color because I'm so sick of apartment-white walls that I could just choke.
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TrustAndObey
I was actually thankful for the no gift policy when it came out.
I thought it was pretty stupid after the 10th time of taking PFAL or the new class that they still looked at you weird if you didn't contribute to the gift given to the class coord. and/or the MOG who taped it.
Then after the no-gift policy, even more stupid (for me) was making those home-made thank you cards.. Even when we were in Corpse training, every regurgitated class especially those you'd been through a zillion times (maybe minus one, lol) and you were expected to give a thank you card... Worthless in my opinion. Course while in-rez they went through my thank-you cards with a fine tooth comb and would give me a face melting over any misspelt word, punctuation, or they just thought it lacked heart..
Course, unfortunately, the no-gift ploicy didn't seem to include all those "extra" perks the Corpse "asked" you to help them with their household chores!
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