Oh yeah, from the very simple things in life, like the toilet paper must be folded a certain way, to some of the bigger issues, like believers must exercise our right to vote, and while we're there, vote Republican. Isn't that just a little too much to take on in life, anyway? To think that you must be the expert in all things? Run while you still can! If only I had ran sooner...
Oh yeah, from the very simple things in life, like the toilet paper must be folded a certain way, to some of the bigger issues, like believers must exercise our right to vote, and while we're there, vote Republican. Isn't that just a little too much to take on in life, anyway? To think that you must be the expert in all things? Run while you still can! If only I had ran sooner...
Welcome, What About It!! Glad to see you posting here!
Ya, the courtesy folds were repetitively ingrained in us while in-residence, if you had the misfortune to work housekeeping. Thinking oneself an expert in all things seems a lot like megalomania!
Yes, I think that was Doc Vic. Megalomaniac! It has left it's scars on me.
If you're talking about the organization's bod, they made themselves the experts. There isn't anybody as perfect as them.....don'cha know and besides.....somebody has to takek the lead and show all the young whippersnappers what "perfect" is.
I have a slightly different take on this. I think all of us (or at least many of us) made them the expert by allowing them to tell us how to live our lives. I am not condoning the terrible things perpetrated by some of the leaders in TWI, but we did give allegiance. So, when I was processing out of TWI one of the things I spent a lot of time working on, was understanding what it was about me that made it so easy for them. In doing so, I gained a better understanding of myself and that part of my life.
I have a slightly different take on this. I think all of us (or at least many of us) made them the expert by allowing them to tell us how to live our lives. I am not condoning the terrible things perpetrated by some of the leaders in TWI, but we did give allegiance. So, when I was processing out of TWI one of the things I spent a lot of time working on, was understanding what it was about me that made it so easy for them. In doing so, I gained a better understanding of myself and that part of my life.
I never thought of things this way, but maybe you have a good point. I'll re-think. Thanks Abi - - you almost never post without getting me to think about something!
So, when I was processing out of TWI one of the things I spent a lot of time working on, was understanding what it was about me that made it so easy for them. In doing so, I gained a better understanding of myself and that part of my life.
Yes. What exactly was it that allowed us to place ourselves under that kind of false spiritual authority? Because in reality when it comes to spiritual matters, people have no more authority over you than you allow.
Yes. What exactly was it that allowed us to place ourselves under that kind of false spiritual authority? Because in reality when it comes to spiritual matters, people have no more authority over you than you allow.
If I could get an answer on that I would be very very happy... I have a hard time understanding what it was about me that allowed for that... I'm a different person now and I don't let people walk on me BECAUSE of what happened in twi, but before? I don't know. I think I was too young when I got involved, and since my parents were in I just sort of replaced their authority over me with twi's authority.
Totally agree.....I've asked myself that question.....People don't walk over me any more, nor do I just "buy" something because someone says it's so. I have definitely looked at me before getting into TWI and what state I was in, what I believed, what I was actually "looking for" when I joined up, I've learned, since leaving, that people only have the power over you that you allow them to have. I really had no skills at living life and living it healthy. I didn't know healthy from unhealthy. At that time which was after the 60,s had breezed through, I thought life was suppose to be a party,only fun, anti establishment. And I definitely was anti the church as it stood then. I was naive, for one thing.....I didn't know anything about the bible...and so these people were experts, and biblical scholors so they said, and I said OK...teach me. And they did. I had nothing to compare it to...it sounded "right", it sounded "good"....definitely fed into my life style, which was yes you can smoke, yes you can drink and God is cool with that. I came from a home that was not a family and I definitely was looking what what I hadn't had growing up and TWI provided that "family". Unfortunately, it was also very disfunctional and I was blind to it. I don't know....I would love to lay the total blame at their feet, but that would not be the truth. The truth is that for some reason, I allowed them to do what they did in my life. I ignored the inbuilt red flags that came up many, many times because I didn't trust myself to know. I trusted them to know and them to tell me. I think I was "primed" for the experience due to my background. I was just food for their lunch.
Having said all that, there was so much evil going on, and I think it's been discussed here over and over and over again, so I don't have to reiterate all that has already been said, but it's a tragic, tragic story of how an organization of people (not all, but most) can take advantage of other human beings. Power is something human's love to have...and it has been shown how corrupt, sinful, and stripping it can be.
Today, I am in a good place, spiritually, and mentally. But, it's taken a lot of work on my part. I've learned the skills I didn't have when I signed the green card. I learned how to be true to me...to own my own power and not give it away like I did. Our lives have value...and I had to learn how to value it myself.
I don't blame them, but I sure hold them responsible. Like Abigail, I have had to go back and think a little about what made me so vulnerable to this sort of scam. Sad to say it appealed to the part of me that is just lazy. The idea of the bible just working and everything from God having been given for us to claim by our mental prowess was just appealing. That's at least part of it.
As for holding them responsible, they have an extra level of duty to be honest in the sight of God in how they conduct themselves. Yet they walk in falsehood and hypocrisy and are worthy of the greater damnation.
Thanks, newlife. I've been out for less than 2 years now, so I'm still sorting a lot of garbage out. I got in when I was 20--young and naive, like you were too. So I can relate to a lot of what you posted: nothing to compare it to, you're the scholars, etc. And I think I'm just getting a glimpse of the work I'm going to have to put into truly getting over it. I thought, at first, that I could just go on and continue to love God, but now I realize that I don't even know who He is and that I'm suspicious of everything I hear. But one thing is for sure: I definitely don't want any "experts" telling me how to live my life.
Thanks, newlife. I've been out for less than 2 years now, so I'm still sorting a lot of garbage out. I got in when I was 20--young and naive, like you were too. So I can relate to a lot of what you posted: nothing to compare it to, you're the scholars, etc. And I think I'm just getting a glimpse of the work I'm going to have to put into truly getting over it. I thought, at first, that I could just go on and continue to love God, but now I realize that I don't even know who He is and that I'm suspicious of everything I hear. But one thing is for sure: I definitely don't want any "experts" telling me how to live my life.
You are exactly where I was a couple of years back. It gets better. I rethought every thing I thought I knew about God and life after I left. I couldn't figure out how to pray to God, how to talk to him, what He/She/It even was - there were so many lies and wrong teachings that I just threw all of it out and decided to start over completely. My beliefs have changed pretty dramatically in the last two years, and continue to evolve. I started just talking to God instead of "thanking Him" for everything on my little wish list before I had it. It was really really hard to do. I also went back to the most basic truth I knew, something that twi didn't teach about.
Love God, love your neighbor as yourself.
For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son.
I knew those things were right. From there, I just let myself think about things - even things that twi would have considered evil. I considered them, I thought about them. I am still thinking. And I have some major changes in basic things that were taught by twi.
I try to be kind to everyone.
I have redefined what I think love is, and how to love people.
I put my family before anyone else.
I believe that I have no place in judging anyone else's beliefs.
I believe that all religions can be learned from, and that all have some points of truth within them.
I believe that God is both male and female, and neither male or female - that aspects of both are contained in God.
I believe in giving to those less fortunate than me.
lots of changes... and others as well. I pray to God in a more honest way now. Things overall are better - and I know I have a better relationship with God than I did before.
And I think I'm just getting a glimpse of the work I'm going to have to put into truly getting over it.
Work, schmirk----Just have some fun.
What's the hurry?
I'm not sure if you can ever totally get over it.
But, hey!----So What?
There are plenty of people here who can relate to your experience.
And don't forget, there is more to Greasespotcafe than just the forums. You can use the P.M.(private message) service and there is a chat room, as well.
Plus, there is a ton of very informative "stuff" that you can access from the home page.
Loved what you had to say Java Jane...I can relate to it all. My whole way of thinking has changed and my beliefs.
I remember a time shortly after exiting that I just didn't know who God was anymore. And I faced this question of how do I pray and to whom. (I,too, through out all the Thank you God for this, Thank you God for that) I finally got the idea I would pray to the father of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob!!! I figured He knew who he was so I couldn't go wrong in praying that way. Ha! There's no way anyone knows everything about God. God is infinite and we are finite.
It's a process and it does take effort to take an honest look at who I was back then and when I see who I am today....no comparison...none at all. I'm happy today and I don't know everything!!!
I think that getting hobbies/interests made a huge difference to hubby and I. In TWI our interests and talents didn't matter, and there was no time to pursue any. After we got out we both put sizeable amounts of time(and sometimes money) into new crafts/interests. It takes time to learn somthing, develop a skill, and can be a real source of satisfaction.
Seems like a small thing, but it semed to make a huge quality of life difference for us.
As far as why we allowed themto be authorities over us--I was a little girl in the sixties. I was raised to be compliant as many many girls were and still are. I wore white gloves to church on Sunday and ate with my napkin in my lap. Hubby was raised to respect authority. And in TWI, leaders were somewhat larger than life. We were saving the world...
As far as why we allowed themto be authorities over us--I was a little girl in the sixties. I was raised to be compliant as many many girls were and still are. I wore white gloves to church on Sunday and ate with my napkin in my lap. Hubby was raised to respect authority. And in TWI, leaders were somewhat larger than life. We were saving the world...
What an extremely powerful statement that really is Bramble..........!
I think that getting hobbies/interests made a huge difference to hubby and I. In TWI our interests and talents didn't matter, and there was no time to pursue any. After we got out we both put sizeable amounts of time(and sometimes money) into new crafts/interests. It takes time to learn somthing, develop a skill, and can be a real source of satisfaction.
Seems like a small thing, but it semed to make a huge quality of life difference for us.
As far as why we allowed themto be authorities over us--I was a little girl in the sixties. I was raised to be compliant as many many girls were and still are. I wore white gloves to church on Sunday and ate with my napkin in my lap. Hubby was raised to respect authority. And in TWI, leaders were somewhat larger than life. We were saving the world...
Bramble: yes, yes and yes. I have a few new hobbies and they have helped immensely with self esteem and with just being generally peaceful (especially gardening for me - being with nature and enoying it as a part of being close to God helped a lot.)
And we did think we were saving the world. Like we were some sort of superheroes. We weren't. It doesn't mean we aren't still important or special. We are. We just have to find out who we are in reality, not in the made up world of twi.
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What About It
Oh yeah, from the very simple things in life, like the toilet paper must be folded a certain way, to some of the bigger issues, like believers must exercise our right to vote, and while we're there, vote Republican. Isn't that just a little too much to take on in life, anyway? To think that you must be the expert in all things? Run while you still can! If only I had ran sooner...
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OldSkool
Welcome, What About It!! Glad to see you posting here!
Ya, the courtesy folds were repetitively ingrained in us while in-residence, if you had the misfortune to work housekeeping. Thinking oneself an expert in all things seems a lot like megalomania!
Yes, I think that was Doc Vic. Megalomaniac! It has left it's scars on me.
Again, welcome to Da Spot!!
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krys
If you're talking about the organization's bod, they made themselves the experts. There isn't anybody as perfect as them.....don'cha know and besides.....somebody has to takek the lead and show all the young whippersnappers what "perfect" is.
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OldSkool
A page right out of Simon the Sorcerer's playbook!
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Abigail
I have a slightly different take on this. I think all of us (or at least many of us) made them the expert by allowing them to tell us how to live our lives. I am not condoning the terrible things perpetrated by some of the leaders in TWI, but we did give allegiance. So, when I was processing out of TWI one of the things I spent a lot of time working on, was understanding what it was about me that made it so easy for them. In doing so, I gained a better understanding of myself and that part of my life.
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chockfull
Dude, they taught us on a Corps playback how to read labels on cans. And I can't get that 2 hours of my life back.
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krys
I never thought of things this way, but maybe you have a good point. I'll re-think. Thanks Abi - - you almost never post without getting me to think about something!
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chockfull
Yes. What exactly was it that allowed us to place ourselves under that kind of false spiritual authority? Because in reality when it comes to spiritual matters, people have no more authority over you than you allow.
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JavaJane
If I could get an answer on that I would be very very happy... I have a hard time understanding what it was about me that allowed for that... I'm a different person now and I don't let people walk on me BECAUSE of what happened in twi, but before? I don't know. I think I was too young when I got involved, and since my parents were in I just sort of replaced their authority over me with twi's authority.
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newlife
Totally agree.....I've asked myself that question.....People don't walk over me any more, nor do I just "buy" something because someone says it's so. I have definitely looked at me before getting into TWI and what state I was in, what I believed, what I was actually "looking for" when I joined up, I've learned, since leaving, that people only have the power over you that you allow them to have. I really had no skills at living life and living it healthy. I didn't know healthy from unhealthy. At that time which was after the 60,s had breezed through, I thought life was suppose to be a party,only fun, anti establishment. And I definitely was anti the church as it stood then. I was naive, for one thing.....I didn't know anything about the bible...and so these people were experts, and biblical scholors so they said, and I said OK...teach me. And they did. I had nothing to compare it to...it sounded "right", it sounded "good"....definitely fed into my life style, which was yes you can smoke, yes you can drink and God is cool with that. I came from a home that was not a family and I definitely was looking what what I hadn't had growing up and TWI provided that "family". Unfortunately, it was also very disfunctional and I was blind to it. I don't know....I would love to lay the total blame at their feet, but that would not be the truth. The truth is that for some reason, I allowed them to do what they did in my life. I ignored the inbuilt red flags that came up many, many times because I didn't trust myself to know. I trusted them to know and them to tell me. I think I was "primed" for the experience due to my background. I was just food for their lunch.
Having said all that, there was so much evil going on, and I think it's been discussed here over and over and over again, so I don't have to reiterate all that has already been said, but it's a tragic, tragic story of how an organization of people (not all, but most) can take advantage of other human beings. Power is something human's love to have...and it has been shown how corrupt, sinful, and stripping it can be.
Today, I am in a good place, spiritually, and mentally. But, it's taken a lot of work on my part. I've learned the skills I didn't have when I signed the green card. I learned how to be true to me...to own my own power and not give it away like I did. Our lives have value...and I had to learn how to value it myself.
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OldSkool
I enjoyed that newlife. Thanks!
I don't blame them, but I sure hold them responsible. Like Abigail, I have had to go back and think a little about what made me so vulnerable to this sort of scam. Sad to say it appealed to the part of me that is just lazy. The idea of the bible just working and everything from God having been given for us to claim by our mental prowess was just appealing. That's at least part of it.
As for holding them responsible, they have an extra level of duty to be honest in the sight of God in how they conduct themselves. Yet they walk in falsehood and hypocrisy and are worthy of the greater damnation.
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What About It
Thanks, newlife. I've been out for less than 2 years now, so I'm still sorting a lot of garbage out. I got in when I was 20--young and naive, like you were too. So I can relate to a lot of what you posted: nothing to compare it to, you're the scholars, etc. And I think I'm just getting a glimpse of the work I'm going to have to put into truly getting over it. I thought, at first, that I could just go on and continue to love God, but now I realize that I don't even know who He is and that I'm suspicious of everything I hear. But one thing is for sure: I definitely don't want any "experts" telling me how to live my life.
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Twinky
sorry wrong location for post
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JavaJane
You are exactly where I was a couple of years back. It gets better. I rethought every thing I thought I knew about God and life after I left. I couldn't figure out how to pray to God, how to talk to him, what He/She/It even was - there were so many lies and wrong teachings that I just threw all of it out and decided to start over completely. My beliefs have changed pretty dramatically in the last two years, and continue to evolve. I started just talking to God instead of "thanking Him" for everything on my little wish list before I had it. It was really really hard to do. I also went back to the most basic truth I knew, something that twi didn't teach about.
Love God, love your neighbor as yourself.
For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son.
I knew those things were right. From there, I just let myself think about things - even things that twi would have considered evil. I considered them, I thought about them. I am still thinking. And I have some major changes in basic things that were taught by twi.
I try to be kind to everyone.
I have redefined what I think love is, and how to love people.
I put my family before anyone else.
I believe that I have no place in judging anyone else's beliefs.
I believe that all religions can be learned from, and that all have some points of truth within them.
I believe that God is both male and female, and neither male or female - that aspects of both are contained in God.
I believe in giving to those less fortunate than me.
lots of changes... and others as well. I pray to God in a more honest way now. Things overall are better - and I know I have a better relationship with God than I did before.
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OldSkool
Thanks, JavaJane.
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waysider
Work, schmirk----Just have some fun.
What's the hurry?
I'm not sure if you can ever totally get over it.
But, hey!----So What?
There are plenty of people here who can relate to your experience.
And don't forget, there is more to Greasespotcafe than just the forums. You can use the P.M.(private message) service and there is a chat room, as well.
Plus, there is a ton of very informative "stuff" that you can access from the home page.
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newlife
Loved what you had to say Java Jane...I can relate to it all. My whole way of thinking has changed and my beliefs.
I remember a time shortly after exiting that I just didn't know who God was anymore. And I faced this question of how do I pray and to whom. (I,too, through out all the Thank you God for this, Thank you God for that) I finally got the idea I would pray to the father of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob!!! I figured He knew who he was so I couldn't go wrong in praying that way. Ha! There's no way anyone knows everything about God. God is infinite and we are finite.
It's a process and it does take effort to take an honest look at who I was back then and when I see who I am today....no comparison...none at all. I'm happy today and I don't know everything!!!
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Bramble
I think that getting hobbies/interests made a huge difference to hubby and I. In TWI our interests and talents didn't matter, and there was no time to pursue any. After we got out we both put sizeable amounts of time(and sometimes money) into new crafts/interests. It takes time to learn somthing, develop a skill, and can be a real source of satisfaction.
Seems like a small thing, but it semed to make a huge quality of life difference for us.
As far as why we allowed themto be authorities over us--I was a little girl in the sixties. I was raised to be compliant as many many girls were and still are. I wore white gloves to church on Sunday and ate with my napkin in my lap. Hubby was raised to respect authority. And in TWI, leaders were somewhat larger than life. We were saving the world...
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Gen-2
What an extremely powerful statement that really is Bramble..........!
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JavaJane
Bramble: yes, yes and yes. I have a few new hobbies and they have helped immensely with self esteem and with just being generally peaceful (especially gardening for me - being with nature and enoying it as a part of being close to God helped a lot.)
And we did think we were saving the world. Like we were some sort of superheroes. We weren't. It doesn't mean we aren't still important or special. We are. We just have to find out who we are in reality, not in the made up world of twi.
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