Before I became involved in TWI, I had a years-long background in the psychic sciences including ESP. I also was a big believer in hypnosis. Once I became involved in TWI, I was made aware of the dangers of those things, so I stopped trying to read people's minds and made myself unavailable to suggestion. That meant I had to be told those things directly. No one ever told us to forgo health insurance or walk away from our families. The family thing may have been suggested, especially if a family event conflicted with a TWI event, but due to the suggestive nature, any suggestions to that effect were ignored.
We were point blank told about being on time after coming in late a few times due to circumstances beyond our control. There was no excuse as far as the twig leader was concerned, so I didn't sweat it anymore. If I knew I was going to be late, I just didn't go.
I think you were smart in your approach Tzaia... How did you deal with the whole "the suggestion of a leader is tantamount to a command" (or some such nonsense.) I was just a kid when I got involved (like 10 or 12) and I thought these people could walk on water. Gullible. Completely gullible.
I guess, in a way I never thought of, the power of suggestion goes pretty far as far as an ability to control people. I never thought of it that way before - I always just thought of it in terms of commercials making me want to go eat cheeseburgers or something, or someone reading body language while reading Tarot cards to tell if they are hitting the mark with their reading.
I never thought of the power of suggestion as being connected with ESP at all - I should rephrase - I never thought of it being a spiritual or supernatural thing that was dangerous (like twi taught about devil spirits)...
Sometimes I think what people *don't* say - what they express in body language and facial expressions, tone of voice, etc tells more truth about a person and their intention than any words they could say.
Of course, vpw (who knew nothing about the military) was fond of saying
"the suggestion of a General is tantamount to a command"
(while insinuating, implying, etc that he was this General he was speaking of.)
And of course the minions would use that one as well. I have had lowly fellowship coordinators pull that one me, following their master's lead - no doubt!
I was never TOLD to do many things I swore I was told to do by leadership...
For instance, I was never told I needed to cut off all contact with my family because they were Mark and Avoid... (nope, I just remembered the conversation wrong when I was informed that if I decided to do so I would be taking a stand for God and standing in the gap, thereby protecting my family from certain ruin and destruction from the Adversary... They didn't TELL ME specifically that I shouldn't talk to them....)
I was also never told that I shouldn't purchase health insurance from work (I was simply told that I could believe big enough that I wouldn't need it.)
I wasn't told that I couldn't be late for meetings (but sometimes they would lock the door if you did show up late.)
Yup, there was a lot of stuff the NEVER said.
It was all just free-will fellowshipping!
It's all part of our secret knowledge and understanding. You know what they really mean . . . but don't let the ministry be blamed. Take it on the chin like good team player.
Funny thing to consider. To me, it is like lying but there are some differences. It is total deception. The difference is that with lying people still have a conscience. With many of these clowns they may have had a conscience the first few times they did it, lied and justified it as advancing "the ministry", but over time their conscience has been seared with a hot iron, as described Biblically. They lie about things and never even consider that they are lying. It's their modus operandi and their self-importance in their own mind prevents them from acknowledging the falsehood. They have a vision that somehow what they are doing is "preserving the Word ™ for the next generation". It's a false vision. Like the false vision VP had when he was sexually molesting all those women. He thought he was "healing" them. Instead he was deeply and emotionally injuring them. Their morals are low, their lust for power is high, so that is ripe ground for false visions to be planted.
A false vision is a lie. It's just on a much more grandiose scale.
I think you were smart in your approach Tzaia... How did you deal with the whole "the suggestion of a leader is tantamount to a command" (or some such nonsense.) I was just a kid when I got involved (like 10 or 12) and I thought these people could walk on water. Gullible. Completely gullible.
I guess, in a way I never thought of, the power of suggestion goes pretty far as far as an ability to control people. I never thought of it that way before - I always just thought of it in terms of commercials making me want to go eat cheeseburgers or something, or someone reading body language while reading Tarot cards to tell if they are hitting the mark with their reading.
I never thought of the power of suggestion as being connected with ESP at all - I should rephrase - I never thought of it being a spiritual or supernatural thing that was dangerous (like twi taught about devil spirits)...
Sometimes I think what people *don't* say - what they express in body language and facial expressions, tone of voice, etc tells more truth about a person and their intention than any words they could say.
I was blissfully unaware of the whole suggestion of a leader is tantamount to a command nonsense. I didn't think the leadership could walk on water. Being the way I am did not make things easy back then because people were used to having their way with you, and they could be pretty nasty when you didn't let them. A few things happened that made me very aware of what I was dealing with, and that caused me to be even less likely to subject myself to behavior that I considered abusive. That probably saved me from a lot of what people report here.
Funny thing to consider. To me, it is like lying but there are some differences. It is total deception. The difference is that with lying people still have a conscience. With many of these clowns they may have had a conscience the first few times they did it, lied and justified it as advancing "the ministry", but over time their conscience has been seared with a hot iron, as described Biblically. They lie about things and never even consider that they are lying. It's their modus operandi and their self-importance in their own mind prevents them from acknowledging the falsehood. They have a vision that somehow what they are doing is "preserving the Word ™ for the next generation". It's a false vision. Like the false vision VP had when he was sexually molesting all those women. He thought he was "healing" them. Instead he was deeply and emotionally injuring them. Their morals are low, their lust for power is high, so that is ripe ground for false visions to be planted.
A false vision is a lie. It's just on a much more grandiose scale.
Wayfers at all levels do this . . . sometimes . . . they've got that smirk and look in their eye . . . there's licking of lips and a little drool (it appears) . . . "Well I never said . . ."
A wayfer loves watching another suffer. They get some kind of kick out of it.
It reminds me of people getting excited about lcm's rants. . . which (duh) had no substance . . . just him going off making fun of someone, some group, or something. When you don't have outsiders to make fun of . . . you've got to turn inward.
It reminds me of people getting excited about lcm's rants. . . which (duh) had no substance . . . just him going off making fun of someone, some group, or something. When you don't have outsiders to make fun of . . . you've got to turn inward.
Sad to say when I was new and had my way-goggles on I used to love his rants. In-residence, as I started to unravel, I went back and re-listened. The man was an idiot. You are so VERY correct about being devoid of substance. The sound bytes on Grease Spot's front page will prove the point.
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OldSkool
I call it disparity in actions and words.
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Gen-2
Is that like lying?
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OldSkool
Just like it! (only totally different.)
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Tzaia
Before I became involved in TWI, I had a years-long background in the psychic sciences including ESP. I also was a big believer in hypnosis. Once I became involved in TWI, I was made aware of the dangers of those things, so I stopped trying to read people's minds and made myself unavailable to suggestion. That meant I had to be told those things directly. No one ever told us to forgo health insurance or walk away from our families. The family thing may have been suggested, especially if a family event conflicted with a TWI event, but due to the suggestive nature, any suggestions to that effect were ignored.
We were point blank told about being on time after coming in late a few times due to circumstances beyond our control. There was no excuse as far as the twig leader was concerned, so I didn't sweat it anymore. If I knew I was going to be late, I just didn't go.
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JavaJane
I think you were smart in your approach Tzaia... How did you deal with the whole "the suggestion of a leader is tantamount to a command" (or some such nonsense.) I was just a kid when I got involved (like 10 or 12) and I thought these people could walk on water. Gullible. Completely gullible.
I guess, in a way I never thought of, the power of suggestion goes pretty far as far as an ability to control people. I never thought of it that way before - I always just thought of it in terms of commercials making me want to go eat cheeseburgers or something, or someone reading body language while reading Tarot cards to tell if they are hitting the mark with their reading.
I never thought of the power of suggestion as being connected with ESP at all - I should rephrase - I never thought of it being a spiritual or supernatural thing that was dangerous (like twi taught about devil spirits)...
Sometimes I think what people *don't* say - what they express in body language and facial expressions, tone of voice, etc tells more truth about a person and their intention than any words they could say.
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WordWolf
Of course, vpw (who knew nothing about the military) was fond of saying
"the suggestion of a General is tantamount to a command"
(while insinuating, implying, etc that he was this General he was speaking of.)
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OldSkool
And of course the minions would use that one as well. I have had lowly fellowship coordinators pull that one me, following their master's lead - no doubt!
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Gen-2
Hey then highest ranking officer I didn't jump for was a Colonel,.... They didn't let me near the Generals lol
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Bolshevik
It's all part of our secret knowledge and understanding. You know what they really mean . . . but don't let the ministry be blamed. Take it on the chin like good team player.
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chockfull
Funny thing to consider. To me, it is like lying but there are some differences. It is total deception. The difference is that with lying people still have a conscience. With many of these clowns they may have had a conscience the first few times they did it, lied and justified it as advancing "the ministry", but over time their conscience has been seared with a hot iron, as described Biblically. They lie about things and never even consider that they are lying. It's their modus operandi and their self-importance in their own mind prevents them from acknowledging the falsehood. They have a vision that somehow what they are doing is "preserving the Word ™ for the next generation". It's a false vision. Like the false vision VP had when he was sexually molesting all those women. He thought he was "healing" them. Instead he was deeply and emotionally injuring them. Their morals are low, their lust for power is high, so that is ripe ground for false visions to be planted.
A false vision is a lie. It's just on a much more grandiose scale.
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Tzaia
I was blissfully unaware of the whole suggestion of a leader is tantamount to a command nonsense. I didn't think the leadership could walk on water. Being the way I am did not make things easy back then because people were used to having their way with you, and they could be pretty nasty when you didn't let them. A few things happened that made me very aware of what I was dealing with, and that caused me to be even less likely to subject myself to behavior that I considered abusive. That probably saved me from a lot of what people report here.
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Bolshevik
Wayfers at all levels do this . . . sometimes . . . they've got that smirk and look in their eye . . . there's licking of lips and a little drool (it appears) . . . "Well I never said . . ."
A wayfer loves watching another suffer. They get some kind of kick out of it.
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OldSkool
As long as it's not another wayfer in good standing they usually use it a validation for their erroneous beliefs.
I told you so in other words. And they do enjoy it,
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Bolshevik
It reminds me of people getting excited about lcm's rants. . . which (duh) had no substance . . . just him going off making fun of someone, some group, or something. When you don't have outsiders to make fun of . . . you've got to turn inward.
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OldSkool
Sad to say when I was new and had my way-goggles on I used to love his rants. In-residence, as I started to unravel, I went back and re-listened. The man was an idiot. You are so VERY correct about being devoid of substance. The sound bytes on Grease Spot's front page will prove the point.
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Bolshevik
yeah me too . . . there's got to be some sort of adrenaline release . . . really . . . maybe someone knows a term for it.
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soul searcher
cathartic
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Bolshevik
I don't know . . . that sounds like a symptom
http://www.reference.com/browse/cathartic
like this?
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soul searcher
Yep, an emotional release; or a purging of emotions.
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Bolshevik
hmm, so we were trained to bottle them up all week . . . till the almighty forehead gave us the go . . .
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JavaJane
Ca-FART-ic. A purging of the gas caused by the casserole of cynicism.
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Bolshevik
*snort*
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soul searcher
That's pretty good -- the word cathartic also means purging of the bowels.
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OldSkool
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