Interesting. You were born again as a child and yet you grew into an "angry young man" who did drugs.
Yes I did. Part of that was rebellion against the hypocrisy in Southern Baptist beliefs. I figured if I was going to burn in hell I was going to have fun getting there. The anger was from socio-economic conditions and dysfunctional family issues as well. I did not have an easy go of things.
What is your thinking soul searcher? I was *born again* or *turned my life over to God* or *invited Jesus into my heart* as a child as well. How did that stop us from having sucky lives and being vulnerable to spiritual charlatans?
I sometimes wonder though if that isn`t one of the dividing lines or difference between people in twi...on how doctrine was peceived, who became abusers.who became victims...who later escaped and those who are stuck as lifers believing that there is no better way out there.
I sometimes wonder though if that isn`t one of the dividing lines or difference between people in twi...on how doctrine was peceived, who became abusers.who became victims...who later escaped and those who are stuck as lifers believing that there is no better way out there.
I wonder the same. I think there is a preferred "type" loosely defined by being quick to hear, slow to speak, and slower to question. Questions are welcome as long as it's understood that they will be answered by all of the way internationals proven ministry research. Vulnerable still comes to mind. Especially if you interpret "looking for people's needs" more honestly as honing in on people's vulnerability. And what is the de-facto reasoning when people keep their defenses up and refuse to be conned? They just aren't meek. We are looking for those that want to know. A.k.a - we are looking for the vulnerable that will do what we tell them.
What is your thinking soul searcher? I was *born again* or *turned my life over to God* or *invited Jesus into my heart* as a child as well. How did that stop us from having sucky lives and being vulnerable to spiritual charlatans?
It wasn't the vulnerability to spiritual charlatans that I was wondering about. I guess my thinking is that people can't control events around them but they can control their reaction to those events. And I always figured that being born again, if nothing else, puts you at peace with the world.
I have known people who had hard lives and then were born again and found peace through God. But I've never (personally) known anyone who was born again and then turned to drugs.
It wasn't the vulnerability to spiritual charlatans that I was wondering about. I guess my thinking is that people can't control events around them but they can control their reaction to those events. And I always figured that being born again, if nothing else, puts you at peace with the world.
I have known people who had hard lives and then were born again and found peace through God. But I've never (personally) known anyone who was born again and then turned to drugs.
Does that make sense at all?
Well, I don't mind being the exception. Being born again and living an evil life is explicitly stated as a reality we must work to avoid. Sadly, we are conditioned many times by organizations to think that being born again means we are instantly changed.
I had a rough upbringing with Church being a detour when I was a younger child. By the time my teens hit my sister had gotten me started into weed, alcohol, and huffing rubber cement. In my neighborhood there was little else except drugs, alcohol, and fighting. It's what we did. Church wasn't even a consideration at that point. So, as I said, socio-economic conditions played a significant factor.
I can say this much. God has healed me, lifted me up from the former shell of a human I was, re-payed me the lost years, and is repaying me what was lost to the way international.
Thanks for the clarification soul searcher. I understand what you are saying. I think that it would be too easy to pass off turning to drugs and alcohol as simply not really being born again...or a lack of accurate knowledge...etc.....but I know so many people that turn to God with all of their heart and strength, yet it doesn`t afford them peace or freedom from that which torments them.
Having a relationship with God seems to simply make their sufferings a little more bearable.
I can say this much. God has healed me, lifted me up from the former shell of a human I was, re-payed me the lost years, and is repaying me what was lost to the way international.
I can say this much. God has healed me, lifted me up from the former shell of a human I was, re-payed me the lost years, and is repaying me what was lost to the way international.
but I know so many people that turn to God with all of their heart and strength, yet it doesn`t afford them peace or freedom from that which torments them.
Yeah...I could possibly be in that category. I don't know. Not right now anyway.
Several doctrinal reasons capped off by the board of directors hypocrisy and mean spirited attitudes towards the way corps. This is by no means a complete list and it's in no order of importance.
I left because I found out first hand that all the power they claim to have is just an empty promise. I put my whole heart in their principles (that they falsely claim just work) on healing and found it to be riddled with lies. So in short, the way they approach God is from a heart of demanding something that is rightfully theirs. Like spoiled children. God resists the proud....anywho.
Also, they have virtually eliminated all things Jesus Christ and placed themselves as the head of the church in his supposed absence. That to me is a big one.
The tithe. All the bible says to the Christian is to give as they purpose in their heart and do it cheerfully. No where are we supposed to give to get God's blessings. That's just a plain old LIE! I believe God will bless you whether you give money or not and can back that one up with the simple truth of God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son. If you follow the way internationals pseudo-logic then that would be a response to the world giving at least 10% because God won't spit in our direction unless we give the minimum. By the way, they never recanted The Forehead's give until it hurts teachings in the late 90s so one has to assume they still stand. Sorry innies.
Above all. They could care less about the way corps unless the corps are towing the line on what Rosalie wants for them. They will grudgingly work with you if your request is not to far out of line with Rosie's desires. But when you have an assignment request that you and your wife have decided is best the watch out. They will do anything in their power to get you into submissive obedience because they think they represent God in placing people in the body of Christ. (pssst....hey Rosie, Christ is the head of the church....not you...I know...try tending your garden a while...that'll keep you busy...) Eventually, she may even attack you directly like she did me and my wife. She even sent in one of her lap dog vice presidents to divide us, which failed. I saw her k9s up close and personal and know first hand that the people running the way international are not good people. In fact after my experiences I can say first hand they are EVIL!
Basically, isn't the love of money the root of all evil? Rosalie just has no real ambition compared to VPW, although she's not as blatently stupid as LCM. Any scheme that allows a person to "prosper" will be viewed as wonderful as long as it works to their good. if it works to your good and you don't feed their Gravy Train,... you must be living in the heart of Ill-gotten gain.
If you need help, believe (like they do to get your money). They won't admit to coveting what others have, but I doubt they'd turn down a sizable donation, after all, if it was "donated" you have no right to ask for anything from them. They don't see their greed as a problem as they don't see themselves as living off of you, or others like you. This is common with religious leaders, especially at the heirarchy of a cult. They just spew their version of God out, and wait for the affirmation and finances of others. If you aren't one of their devotees, you're just not seeing things the way they really are, yanno?
If you complain (and especially if it's true) ~ you're a problem. You'll initially be ignored, spoken against and perhaps expelled. It boils down to their love of money,... "Do you know how much pencils cost?" Later they'll be organizing a special Love offering to help them pay a mortgage or to retain what they might lose. That's when it's time for you to give generously. Another teaching on the tithe, or more... "Don't you love the Word of God we provide for you.
Buy this book, take this class, regularily share your income --- We might not have this Word of God nailed down, You know - Present Truth, and all.... But you should show God how much you appreciate our research buy giving generously,,... even if after 20 years (more or less for some people) you still aren't seeing the BIG harvest from God for believing,... No, for that you need to take more classes.... Register NOW. If you really kiss a$$ we might give you a salary. Just remember Malachi and know,... the Lord's House needs meat! so Give Give Give!
Feed me!
House me!
Don't make me uncomfortable!
It's the Word!
I joined GSC to try to understand people like this,... that hurt my father. And to learn to not be like them.
I've been trying to figure something out... The population of the GSC seems to be pretty varies as far as current belief systems. What was it that brought us all to twi?
A mixture of things. I knew of TWI for quite a few years before I became involved, because I had friends from high school who were involved. I finally made the decision to check them out when I hit rock bottom, so to speak. I was young, my mother was dying, I was trying to get clean and sober and find direction in my life, etc. etc. etc. So, when I wanted to know more about God, TWI sort of seemed like an obvious place to start. HA!
If you need help, believe (like they do to get your money). They won't admit to coveting what others have, but I doubt they'd turn down a sizable donation, after all, if it was "donated" you have no right to ask for anything from them.
Bingo!! You see, you are to give to the ministry that taught you the word and God will give to you. It's his job. The feel they have no fiduciary responsibilities beyond what human resources law mandates. And that is subject to interpretation by a lawyer or two.
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rascal
Naw, I`d say it was more like vulnerability that made us easily exploitable.
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OldSkool
Ya, for me it was vulnerability sprinkled with a dash of gullibility that resulted in a casserole of cynicism.
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soul searcher
Do you consider yourself "born again"? If so, when did it happen?
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OldSkool
I do. And in my childhood, Southern Baptist Church when I was led through Romans 10:9, and 10.
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soul searcher
Interesting. You were born again as a child and yet you grew into an "angry young man" who did drugs.
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OldSkool
Yes I did. Part of that was rebellion against the hypocrisy in Southern Baptist beliefs. I figured if I was going to burn in hell I was going to have fun getting there. The anger was from socio-economic conditions and dysfunctional family issues as well. I did not have an easy go of things.
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rascal
What is your thinking soul searcher? I was *born again* or *turned my life over to God* or *invited Jesus into my heart* as a child as well. How did that stop us from having sucky lives and being vulnerable to spiritual charlatans?
I sometimes wonder though if that isn`t one of the dividing lines or difference between people in twi...on how doctrine was peceived, who became abusers.who became victims...who later escaped and those who are stuck as lifers believing that there is no better way out there.
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Bolshevik
There is no reason.
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OldSkool
I wonder the same. I think there is a preferred "type" loosely defined by being quick to hear, slow to speak, and slower to question. Questions are welcome as long as it's understood that they will be answered by all of the way internationals proven ministry research. Vulnerable still comes to mind. Especially if you interpret "looking for people's needs" more honestly as honing in on people's vulnerability. And what is the de-facto reasoning when people keep their defenses up and refuse to be conned? They just aren't meek. We are looking for those that want to know. A.k.a - we are looking for the vulnerable that will do what we tell them.
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soul searcher
It wasn't the vulnerability to spiritual charlatans that I was wondering about. I guess my thinking is that people can't control events around them but they can control their reaction to those events. And I always figured that being born again, if nothing else, puts you at peace with the world.
I have known people who had hard lives and then were born again and found peace through God. But I've never (personally) known anyone who was born again and then turned to drugs.
Does that make sense at all?
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OldSkool
Well, I don't mind being the exception. Being born again and living an evil life is explicitly stated as a reality we must work to avoid. Sadly, we are conditioned many times by organizations to think that being born again means we are instantly changed.
I had a rough upbringing with Church being a detour when I was a younger child. By the time my teens hit my sister had gotten me started into weed, alcohol, and huffing rubber cement. In my neighborhood there was little else except drugs, alcohol, and fighting. It's what we did. Church wasn't even a consideration at that point. So, as I said, socio-economic conditions played a significant factor.
I can say this much. God has healed me, lifted me up from the former shell of a human I was, re-payed me the lost years, and is repaying me what was lost to the way international.
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rascal
Thanks for the clarification soul searcher. I understand what you are saying. I think that it would be too easy to pass off turning to drugs and alcohol as simply not really being born again...or a lack of accurate knowledge...etc.....but I know so many people that turn to God with all of their heart and strength, yet it doesn`t afford them peace or freedom from that which torments them.
Having a relationship with God seems to simply make their sufferings a little more bearable.
Amen and seconded!
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soul searcher
Dude, I'm happy to hear that, man. Rock on.
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soul searcher
Yeah...I could possibly be in that category. I don't know. Not right now anyway.
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OldSkool
Thanks!
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Gen-2
Basically, isn't the love of money the root of all evil? Rosalie just has no real ambition compared to VPW, although she's not as blatently stupid as LCM. Any scheme that allows a person to "prosper" will be viewed as wonderful as long as it works to their good. if it works to your good and you don't feed their Gravy Train,... you must be living in the heart of Ill-gotten gain.
If you need help, believe (like they do to get your money). They won't admit to coveting what others have, but I doubt they'd turn down a sizable donation, after all, if it was "donated" you have no right to ask for anything from them. They don't see their greed as a problem as they don't see themselves as living off of you, or others like you. This is common with religious leaders, especially at the heirarchy of a cult. They just spew their version of God out, and wait for the affirmation and finances of others. If you aren't one of their devotees, you're just not seeing things the way they really are, yanno?
If you complain (and especially if it's true) ~ you're a problem. You'll initially be ignored, spoken against and perhaps expelled. It boils down to their love of money,... "Do you know how much pencils cost?" Later they'll be organizing a special Love offering to help them pay a mortgage or to retain what they might lose. That's when it's time for you to give generously. Another teaching on the tithe, or more... "Don't you love the Word of God we provide for you.
Buy this book, take this class, regularily share your income --- We might not have this Word of God nailed down, You know - Present Truth, and all.... But you should show God how much you appreciate our research buy giving generously,,... even if after 20 years (more or less for some people) you still aren't seeing the BIG harvest from God for believing,... No, for that you need to take more classes.... Register NOW. If you really kiss a$$ we might give you a salary. Just remember Malachi and know,... the Lord's House needs meat! so Give Give Give!
Feed me!
House me!
Don't make me uncomfortable!
It's the Word!
I joined GSC to try to understand people like this,... that hurt my father. And to learn to not be like them.
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Abigail
A mixture of things. I knew of TWI for quite a few years before I became involved, because I had friends from high school who were involved. I finally made the decision to check them out when I hit rock bottom, so to speak. I was young, my mother was dying, I was trying to get clean and sober and find direction in my life, etc. etc. etc. So, when I wanted to know more about God, TWI sort of seemed like an obvious place to start. HA!
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OldSkool
Bingo!! You see, you are to give to the ministry that taught you the word and God will give to you. It's his job. The feel they have no fiduciary responsibilities beyond what human resources law mandates. And that is subject to interpretation by a lawyer or two.
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