As I said elsewhere, HERE you can find a document from the group he splintered off from, when he left to start his own little cult. Actually, if one reads this letter in the context of James opening post in this thread it would appear he was difellowshipped from one group, started his own group and was eventually disfellowshipped from that group as well. So, he has moved on to starting yet another group. LCM could learn from this guy!
It is interesting to me, that the Messianic Jewish movement is considered to be something of a fringe group anyway, and even they have disavowed Trimm. His group is considered a fringe group even by the fringe groups!
Here are a few excepts from the link:
"But he is misleading the public because he doesn't want you to realize that the men he hand
picked and chose to be the elders he would be responsible to in ministry removed
him from his position."
In other words, even the people he hand picked could no longer tolerate him. Gee, sounds familiar.
Part of the dispute, if I am understanding the docment correctly, stemmed from the fact that people paid James to send them materials and then he failed to follow through with the delivery. "James not delivering ministry materials to people that had already sent him their money." and " . . . and the Beit Din unanimously asked James Trimm to step down from the Beit Din until he had shipped all materials. Turning down help when so many people where being refused what they requested was notacceptable to us, and we took action. With the threat of removing James from office, James accepted that help and worked out an agreeable approach to do so."
Again, this may sound familiar to some: "In August 2006 three new members were admitted to the INBD from the
UoNYC. One quit shortly thereafter. Another quit in September of 2007 when
James Trimm attempted to wrest control of the UNJS from its rightful council and
admitted to the Beit Din of infidelity towards his wife."
Also interesting: "on Sept 19th, James Trimm files papers
declaring the right to use the name "International Nazarene Beit Din" as a business
name in Tarrant County Texas SEVERAL DAYS AFTER the International Nazarene
Beit Din had removed him from office, a highly dishonest move."
Hmmm is this not similar to the allegations TWI made against him? And keep in mind, TWI settled. Do we know the terms of that settlement? Because a settlment, in and of itself, does not give indication of guilt or innocence. Often, parties settle because it is cheaper than putting on a trial. Remember TWI settled in the Allen case, they would have lost. In this case, Trimm settled with TWI, why? What were the terms?
I dunno. This is not directed at you in anyway Abigail and I appreciate the link and your posts.
But the content in the link just makes me want to run off and barf. I am so tired of in-fighting from organizations that are in themselves of little value. Men come along and build their towers of babel to impress God with the works of their own hands and then demand allegiance from others. Claiming an overstated importance all the way that WE HAVE THE IMPORTANT TRUTH and OUR WAY IS THE WAY! Then the splinters happen and they throw scriptural references to condemn the other. What a travesty and what a testimony to the futility of man's works versus accepting God's righteousness by faith.
Again, perhaps this content can be moved to another subsection? I would rather stick to About the Way in this section, even though I wander astray from time to time.
OldSkool, I think this is very fitting for About The Way. If you take the time to research James you will see his tactics are not so very different from the ones we saw in TWI. The lying, thieving, manipulating, even adultery. Oh and the wordsmithing to make himself sound scholarly - it really is straining at gnats, just like we experienced in TWI.
In some ways, he is even better at it than Martindale was. But, like many who are corrupt, his need for control and his greed eventually get the better of him. Hence, the people he hand picked as leaders in his own religious sect kicked him out.
Check out the links, read the ones Geisha posted in the other thread. What you will begin to see is a pattern. He researches his mark, he did it with the Messianic Jews who eventually kicked him out. He did it with the Mormons. Now he is here researching TWI.
Check out some of the threads in doctrinal if you want to see more. Interestingly, I confronted him on an error wherein he essentially stated that all are required to attend the synogogue weekly for the reading of the Torah. When I pointed out that even the Jewish people are under no such obligation and that synogogues and even the Temple did not exist when the Mosaic Laws were given, he decided he no longer wished to participate in the doctrinal forum.
He is here to peddle his wares. He will research his mark, but when he is proven to be the con man he is, he will leave.
Those are my opinions. Take em or leave em, it is really up to you. But, forewarned is forearmed.
Strikes me Abigail might be right - research your mark, then make a move.
James Trimm sure is starting a lot of topics here, more than any other new poster. But they are nearly all really long posts, excerpts from his other printed matter. Does not properly address points made; does not dialog with other posters. Others have complained that his posts are so long that interest is lost before the point (if there is one) is reached.
His "why I left the cult" is so very reminiscent of "why I left the church in Van Wert" and like tales. Not really about why he left, but about self-aggrandisement. Self-glorification.
Uh...didn't we all already sit through long and boring chunks of "theology" getting pushed at us with no opportunity to question, or to dialog with the presenter or those in the presenter's stead? Something that looked good until you started to think more about the inconsistencies, the things that weren't explained satisfactorily? Didn't we get beaten into submission once already?
Oh lordy me...I greeted a wannabe MoG, not met him before, who buttonholed me and gobbled on and on at me for 25 or 30 minutes without a single acknowledgment of me, or my greeting, or a very minor point I'd made about an error in grammar that he had repeated from PFAL. I let him go on so long just to see if he would ever pause for breath. After that 25 or 30 minutes it was obvious he was never going to respond to me...so I got up and walked away, probably quite rudely, but how rude is it to gobble on and on like that? He is now "ordained" by CFFM and has his own "ministry." (Twinky runs away holding head in hands.)
And is James doing anything different?
There's a name for someone who just preaches at you and doesn't respond.
Or that new person you just met at a party, who buttonholes you in a corner and you can't get away from.
Or that guy in the pub who just monopolizes conversation, never quite sees you.
Lemme see...bore. Or even, boor.
Sorry, James, if I have misinterpreted your actions.
OldSkool, I think this is very fitting for About The Way. If you take the time to research James you will see his tactics are not so very different from the ones we saw in TWI. The lying, thieving, manipulating, even adultery. Oh and the wordsmithing to make himself sound scholarly - it really is straining at gnats, just like we experienced in TWI.
In some ways, he is even better at it than Martindale was. But, like many who are corrupt, his need for control and his greed eventually get the better of him. Hence, the people he hand picked as leaders in his own religious sect kicked him out.
Check out the links, read the ones Geisha posted in the other thread. What you will begin to see is a pattern. He researches his mark, he did it with the Messianic Jews who eventually kicked him out. He did it with the Mormons. Now he is here researching TWI.
Check out some of the threads in doctrinal if you want to see more. Interestingly, I confronted him on an error wherein he essentially stated that all are required to attend the synogogue weekly for the reading of the Torah. When I pointed out that even the Jewish people are under no such obligation and that synogogues and even the Temple did not exist when the Mosaic Laws were given, he decided he no longer wished to participate in the doctrinal forum.
He is here to peddle his wares. He will research his mark, but when he is proven to be the con man he is, he will leave.
Those are my opinions. Take em or leave em, it is really up to you. But, forewarned is forearmed.
Not going to debate doctrine here. I will say that Rabbinic Judaism teaches that we fulfill the commandments to keep the Shabbat holy, remember the Shabbat and have a holy convocation on the Shabbat though the synagogue service.
I was never kicked out of the Messianic congregation I belonged to in the 1980's, I chose to leave because the leader exercised unbiblical control over the congregation (familiar to some of you I am sure).
I have also not been "kicked out of" any Nazarene Jewish group. A small group of elders who had already be stripped of their positions broke off and created their own "splinter group" which of course they insist is the original. The splinter group has since faded away, it has no member congregations, has held no conferences, published no books or pamphlets etc. over the years since they broke away. Meanwhile the International Nazarene Beit Din and Worldwide Nazarene Assembly of Elohim has canonized scriptures, passed resolutions, passed halachot, planted congregations worldwide, held conferences, published books, produced broadcast radio shows, taught free Bible Correspondence Courses, taught advanced Yeshiva courses and even fought and settled a lawsuit with TWI.
Calling this even a "split" might be an exaggeration. It would be more accurate to say that a group of elders left intending to create a splinter group and failed.
Actually I was quiet here posting only occasionally for months, because I was involved in a lawsuit and wanted to be careful in my words. Now that it is all behind me I have these backed up thjings to talk about.
Strikes me Abigail might be right - research your mark, then make a move.
James Trimm sure is starting a lot of topics here, more than any other new poster. But they are nearly all really long posts, excerpts from his other printed matter. Does not properly address points made; does not dialog with other posters. Others have complained that his posts are so long that interest is lost before the point (if there is one) is reached.
His "why I left the cult" is so very reminiscent of "why I left the church in Van Wert" and like tales. Not really about why he left, but about self-aggrandisement. Self-glorification.
Uh...didn't we all already sit through long and boring chunks of "theology" getting pushed at us with no opportunity to question, or to dialog with the presenter or those in the presenter's stead? Something that looked good until you started to think more about the inconsistencies, the things that weren't explained satisfactorily? Didn't we get beaten into submission once already?
Oh lordy me...I greeted a wannabe MoG, not met him before, who buttonholed me and gobbled on and on at me for 25 or 30 minutes without a single acknowledgment of me, or my greeting, or a very minor point I'd made about an error in grammar that he had repeated from PFAL. I let him go on so long just to see if he would ever pause for breath. After that 25 or 30 minutes it was obvious he was never going to respond to me...so I got up and walked away, probably quite rudely, but how rude is it to gobble on and on like that? He is now "ordained" by CFFM and has his own "ministry." (Twinky runs away holding head in hands.)
And is James doing anything different?
There's a name for someone who just preaches at you and doesn't respond.
Or that new person you just met at a party, who buttonholes you in a corner and you can't get away from.
Or that guy in the pub who just monopolizes conversation, never quite sees you.
Lemme see...bore. Or even, boor.
Sorry, James, if I have misinterpreted your actions.
HERE IS more information on his involvement with the Mormon group:
"I subscribe to several e-mail discussion groups headed by James Trimm, a Messianic Christian who's pseudonym is "Rabbi Yosef ben Yehudah." He *isn't* a Mormon but finds an amazing amount of authentic "Jewishness" in the Book of Mormon text that point to its authenticity."
James, how did you manage to obtain the title Rabbi?
"The web page for Rabbi Yosef reveals that Trimm was promoting himself as having a doctorate in Rabbinical studies, and also embraced the Book of Mormon as an authentic Jewish book, which was based on valid Jewish sources, making it equivalent in truth to the Bible"
Oh and to make sure I keep this in proper perspective with About the Way, here is a statement of beliefs - - see if it sounds familiar:
"We believe that Nazarene Judaism is the only expression of the one true faith. We do not accept any other religion as a non-Jewish cultural expression of the one true faith."
And here you can find an article "Dr." Trimm wrote on Kabbalah. You should know that there is only one Jewish group that makes authentic information on the Kabbalah pubic and that is chabad.org. A group that James denounced yesterday in the doctrinal forum because they do not believe in his Messiah.
Yup, the old hukster, VPW himself, could have taken lessons from this guy in how to cobble together your own religion by stealing information from already established ones.
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Abigail
As I said elsewhere, HERE you can find a document from the group he splintered off from, when he left to start his own little cult. Actually, if one reads this letter in the context of James opening post in this thread it would appear he was difellowshipped from one group, started his own group and was eventually disfellowshipped from that group as well. So, he has moved on to starting yet another group. LCM could learn from this guy!
It is interesting to me, that the Messianic Jewish movement is considered to be something of a fringe group anyway, and even they have disavowed Trimm. His group is considered a fringe group even by the fringe groups!
Here are a few excepts from the link:
"But he is misleading the public because he doesn't want you to realize that the men he hand
picked and chose to be the elders he would be responsible to in ministry removed
him from his position."
In other words, even the people he hand picked could no longer tolerate him. Gee, sounds familiar.
Part of the dispute, if I am understanding the docment correctly, stemmed from the fact that people paid James to send them materials and then he failed to follow through with the delivery. "James not delivering ministry materials to people that had already sent him their money." and " . . . and the Beit Din unanimously asked James Trimm to step down from the Beit Din until he had shipped all materials. Turning down help when so many people where being refused what they requested was notacceptable to us, and we took action. With the threat of removing James from office, James accepted that help and worked out an agreeable approach to do so."
Again, this may sound familiar to some: "In August 2006 three new members were admitted to the INBD from the
UoNYC. One quit shortly thereafter. Another quit in September of 2007 when
James Trimm attempted to wrest control of the UNJS from its rightful council and
admitted to the Beit Din of infidelity towards his wife."
Also interesting: "on Sept 19th, James Trimm files papers
declaring the right to use the name "International Nazarene Beit Din" as a business
name in Tarrant County Texas SEVERAL DAYS AFTER the International Nazarene
Beit Din had removed him from office, a highly dishonest move."
Hmmm is this not similar to the allegations TWI made against him? And keep in mind, TWI settled. Do we know the terms of that settlement? Because a settlment, in and of itself, does not give indication of guilt or innocence. Often, parties settle because it is cheaper than putting on a trial. Remember TWI settled in the Allen case, they would have lost. In this case, Trimm settled with TWI, why? What were the terms?
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OldSkool
I dunno. This is not directed at you in anyway Abigail and I appreciate the link and your posts.
But the content in the link just makes me want to run off and barf. I am so tired of in-fighting from organizations that are in themselves of little value. Men come along and build their towers of babel to impress God with the works of their own hands and then demand allegiance from others. Claiming an overstated importance all the way that WE HAVE THE IMPORTANT TRUTH and OUR WAY IS THE WAY! Then the splinters happen and they throw scriptural references to condemn the other. What a travesty and what a testimony to the futility of man's works versus accepting God's righteousness by faith.
Again, perhaps this content can be moved to another subsection? I would rather stick to About the Way in this section, even though I wander astray from time to time.
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Abigail
OldSkool, I think this is very fitting for About The Way. If you take the time to research James you will see his tactics are not so very different from the ones we saw in TWI. The lying, thieving, manipulating, even adultery. Oh and the wordsmithing to make himself sound scholarly - it really is straining at gnats, just like we experienced in TWI.
In some ways, he is even better at it than Martindale was. But, like many who are corrupt, his need for control and his greed eventually get the better of him. Hence, the people he hand picked as leaders in his own religious sect kicked him out.
Check out the links, read the ones Geisha posted in the other thread. What you will begin to see is a pattern. He researches his mark, he did it with the Messianic Jews who eventually kicked him out. He did it with the Mormons. Now he is here researching TWI.
Check out some of the threads in doctrinal if you want to see more. Interestingly, I confronted him on an error wherein he essentially stated that all are required to attend the synogogue weekly for the reading of the Torah. When I pointed out that even the Jewish people are under no such obligation and that synogogues and even the Temple did not exist when the Mosaic Laws were given, he decided he no longer wished to participate in the doctrinal forum.
He is here to peddle his wares. He will research his mark, but when he is proven to be the con man he is, he will leave.
Those are my opinions. Take em or leave em, it is really up to you. But, forewarned is forearmed.
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Twinky
Strikes me Abigail might be right - research your mark, then make a move.
James Trimm sure is starting a lot of topics here, more than any other new poster. But they are nearly all really long posts, excerpts from his other printed matter. Does not properly address points made; does not dialog with other posters. Others have complained that his posts are so long that interest is lost before the point (if there is one) is reached.
His "why I left the cult" is so very reminiscent of "why I left the church in Van Wert" and like tales. Not really about why he left, but about self-aggrandisement. Self-glorification.
Uh...didn't we all already sit through long and boring chunks of "theology" getting pushed at us with no opportunity to question, or to dialog with the presenter or those in the presenter's stead? Something that looked good until you started to think more about the inconsistencies, the things that weren't explained satisfactorily? Didn't we get beaten into submission once already?
Oh lordy me...I greeted a wannabe MoG, not met him before, who buttonholed me and gobbled on and on at me for 25 or 30 minutes without a single acknowledgment of me, or my greeting, or a very minor point I'd made about an error in grammar that he had repeated from PFAL. I let him go on so long just to see if he would ever pause for breath. After that 25 or 30 minutes it was obvious he was never going to respond to me...so I got up and walked away, probably quite rudely, but how rude is it to gobble on and on like that? He is now "ordained" by CFFM and has his own "ministry." (Twinky runs away holding head in hands.)
And is James doing anything different?
There's a name for someone who just preaches at you and doesn't respond.
Or that new person you just met at a party, who buttonholes you in a corner and you can't get away from.
Or that guy in the pub who just monopolizes conversation, never quite sees you.
Lemme see...bore. Or even, boor.
Sorry, James, if I have misinterpreted your actions.
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James Trimm
Not going to debate doctrine here. I will say that Rabbinic Judaism teaches that we fulfill the commandments to keep the Shabbat holy, remember the Shabbat and have a holy convocation on the Shabbat though the synagogue service.
I was never kicked out of the Messianic congregation I belonged to in the 1980's, I chose to leave because the leader exercised unbiblical control over the congregation (familiar to some of you I am sure).
I have also not been "kicked out of" any Nazarene Jewish group. A small group of elders who had already be stripped of their positions broke off and created their own "splinter group" which of course they insist is the original. The splinter group has since faded away, it has no member congregations, has held no conferences, published no books or pamphlets etc. over the years since they broke away. Meanwhile the International Nazarene Beit Din and Worldwide Nazarene Assembly of Elohim has canonized scriptures, passed resolutions, passed halachot, planted congregations worldwide, held conferences, published books, produced broadcast radio shows, taught free Bible Correspondence Courses, taught advanced Yeshiva courses and even fought and settled a lawsuit with TWI.
Calling this even a "split" might be an exaggeration. It would be more accurate to say that a group of elders left intending to create a splinter group and failed.
Actually I was quiet here posting only occasionally for months, because I was involved in a lawsuit and wanted to be careful in my words. Now that it is all behind me I have these backed up thjings to talk about.
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Abigail
HERE IS more information on his involvement with the Mormon group:
"I subscribe to several e-mail discussion groups headed by James Trimm, a Messianic Christian who's pseudonym is "Rabbi Yosef ben Yehudah." He *isn't* a Mormon but finds an amazing amount of authentic "Jewishness" in the Book of Mormon text that point to its authenticity."
James, how did you manage to obtain the title Rabbi?
Oh yes, that information is FOUND HERE
"The web page for Rabbi Yosef reveals that Trimm was promoting himself as having a doctorate in Rabbinical studies, and also embraced the Book of Mormon as an authentic Jewish book, which was based on valid Jewish sources, making it equivalent in truth to the Bible"
Oh and to make sure I keep this in proper perspective with About the Way, here is a statement of beliefs - - see if it sounds familiar:
"We believe that Nazarene Judaism is the only expression of the one true faith. We do not accept any other religion as a non-Jewish cultural expression of the one true faith."
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Abigail
And here you can find an article "Dr." Trimm wrote on Kabbalah. You should know that there is only one Jewish group that makes authentic information on the Kabbalah pubic and that is chabad.org. A group that James denounced yesterday in the doctrinal forum because they do not believe in his Messiah.
Yup, the old hukster, VPW himself, could have taken lessons from this guy in how to cobble together your own religion by stealing information from already established ones.
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Tzaia
Nucking futs?
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bliss
Like my signature states from Jeremiah.....get busy DOING, then, you'll be KNOWING the LORD, Yushua, Jesus, etc....
This bibliotry wordsmithing is getting to me.
Too many needs in the world to be sittin here debating, posting, defending your positions on excommunication and possible recruitment.
"IF" you really are who you say you are, then you wouldn't be doing what you're doing here.
just imo.
peace.
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