Thoughts on VPW from an Outsider

[James Trimm]

Now James. You owned the Website for the college, which you once used to convince someone you had a degree (circa 2003). I have the particulars - but my question is WHY? Why did you do that, and you did make an attempt to decieve others into believing it was "outside" confirmation. You realize, of course that that idiotic maneuver forever tarnished you as a liar. The college never owned that site. James Trimm did. And pretending to be a third person wrote to a group, telling them - you or james trimm can go there and look.

Rather silly. Why did you do that?

This seems to have been a drive-by attack, as when I stated it was totally false, rather than give your "particulars" you totally changed the subject.

Pssssst......hey James......when you put something on the interweb it is still there for the search savvy to find. No matter how many years go by there is a better than average chance it can be extrapolated across the wires from some harddrive tucked away somewhere housing archives. Please try to keep that in mind...please?.....ok?....

This was already covered in the PDF file I directed people to at:

http://www.lulu.com/items/volume_68/8857000/8857710/1/print/sl2.pdf

However I will now repost it here:

I am not a proponent of the Book of Mormon. Many years ago (back in the mid 1990’s) I did in fact go onto Mormon discussion groups under pseudonyms and argued against Mormonism by using The Book of Mormon in a “for arguments sake” type approach.

The BoM quotes and paraphrases many phrases, verses, concepts and even whole chapters from the Bible. In fact as much as half or more of the BoM actually closely parallels passages in the Bible. As a result there is much Biblical truth in the BoM. These are Biblical truths that first appeared in the Bible. Therefore regardless of whether or not the BoM is true or not there is none-the-less a great deal of truth in the BoM.

If one takes a Hebraic-Roots approach to these Biblical truths that appear in the BoM one is able teach these truths to Mormons from a "Jewish Perspective" and thus deal with what could be called "Jewishness" in/of the BoM. This "Jewishness" is simply the result of applying a Hebraic-Roots approach and a Jewish perspective to Biblical truths that appear in the BoM. These Biblical truths appear because the BoM quotes and paraphrases many phrases, verses, concepts and even whole chapters from the Bible.

Now because of the fact that the BoM contains Biblical truth, it can be very useful in reaching Mormons with these Biblical truths. And by applying a Jewish/Hebraic-roots perspective on these Biblical truths one can effectively reach Mormons with both Torah and Messiah.

Christian ministries have used this type of approach for years in attempting to reach Mormons with Orthodox Christianity. One tract published by Personal Freedom Outreach says:

Anyone visited by a Mormon Missionary has heard

the Elder's testimony concerning the Book of Mormon:

That he knows this book is the Word of God

and that the founder of the Mormon Church,

Joseph Smith, Jr., translated it by the gift and power of God.

Further, the prospect is encouraged sincerely

to study the Book of Mormon and "The divine truths

it contains."

The Book of Mormon indeed does contain a number of

"divine truths", first set forth in the Bible,...

[the author then lists six of these]

Much of the major theology set forth in the Book of Mormon

is indeed in harmony with orthodox Christianity.

However, many who are visited by the LDS Missionaries

are unaware that the present theology of the Mormon Church

is very different from their own Book of Mormon. ...

Mormon theology is not contained in,

but rather contradicted by the Book of Mormon....

The presence of "Divine Truths" within the Book of Mormon

is merely a result of Joseph Smith, Jr. incorporating

much of the Bible into his work. (see 'The use of the Bible

in the Book of Mormon by H. Michael Marquardt).

- DIVINE TRUTHS IN THE BOOK OF MORMON

http://www.associate.com/ministry_files/The_Reading_Room/False_Teaching_n_Teachers_1/Divine_Truths_In_The_Book_Of_Mo.shtml

There are a number of Christian tracts and ministries that have taken this same approach to disprove Mormon theology and teach Orthodox Christian theology to Mormons using the divine truths in their Book of Mormon.

For example the tract THOSE PLAIN AND PRECIOUS THINGS from Saints Alive:

http://www.saintsalive.com/mormonism/plainandprecious.htm

and an article called:

Joseph Smith vs. the Book of Mormon By Gary F. Zeolla

http://www.dtl.org/cults/article/smith.htm

Some years ago I adapted this same approach to Messianic/Nazarene Judaism. By taking a Hebraic-Roots Jewish approach to these "divine truths" in the Book of Mormon I could actually reach Mormons with real Torah based divine truth USING THEIR OWN BOOK!

This approach becomes very important because Mormons put more stock in the Book of Mormon than in the Bible. As a Saints Alive tract correctly states:

"I (Joseph Smith) told the Brethren that

the Book of Mormon was the most correct

of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion,

and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts,

than by any other book."

(History of the Church, Volume 4, Page 461)

It is the LDS concept that the Bible is the Word of God

as far as it is translated correctly, that is,

what is left of the Bible after many Plain and Precious

Things were removed by the great and abominable church.

The Mormon also "knows" that the Book of Mormon

is the Word of God. It did not have many

Plain and Precious Things removed. It did not

suffer at the hands of many translations.

(Those Plain and Precious Things tract- Saints Alive)

This tract goes on to show that the many unique Mormon doctrines do NOT appear in the Book of Mormon which actually teaches against them. The tract continues further down:

1 Nephi 13:26-36 says that the "great and abominable church"

(verse 26) took away from the gospel many parts and covenants

which were Plain and Precious, in order to pervert the ways of the Lord

and blind the eyes and harden the hearts of the people.

The Bible was corrupted because of this (verse 28). What were

some of those Plain and Precious Things? Are these those that

separate Mormonism from the Christianity that grew out of the past?

Are these not the law of eternal progression, salvation,

baptism for the dead, the nature of God, temples, and polygamy?

The Lord God (Elohim) promised that a day would come

when these things will be restored (verse 32) after the Gentiles

stumble about because of this act of the "mother of harlots"

taking the most Plain and Precious Things of the Gospel

of the Lamb (verse 34). The Lamb of God (Jesus) says exactly

how this restoration of all the Plain and Precious Things

will come about. In verse 35 He says He will manifest Himself

to the Seed of Nephi and they shall write many things all

the precious things taken away by that church and even

after they (your seed) are all gone. These things shall be

hidden up to come forth unto the Gentiles. Verse 36 says,

"And in them shall be written my gospel., saith the Lamb,

and my rock (word "rock" refers to the gospel' see D&C 11:24)

and my salvation." Therefore, the Plain and Precious Things

taken away by the great and abominable church must be restored

in the Book of Mormon. This is verified by Latter-day

revelations also:

"For in them are all things written concerning

the foundation of my church, my gospel, and my rock." (D&C 18:4)

"And again, I command thee that thou shalt not covet

thine own property, but impart it freely to the printing

of the Book of Mormon, which contains the truth and

the Word of God." (D&C 19:26) "And gave him power from on high,

by the means which were before prepared, to translate

the Book of Mormon; which contains a record of a fallen people,

and the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles

and to the Jews also." (D&C 20:8&9) "And again, the elders,

priests and teachers of this church shall teach the principles

of my gospel, which are in the Bible and the Book of Mormon,

in the which is the fullness of the gospel." (D&C 42:12)

What are the things contained in the fullness of the gospel,

the Book of Mormon, which are lost, hidden and not contained

in the Bible? By the Word of God, they must be in the Book

of Mormon. Where are these teaching of Mormonism?

The critical doctrines that separate Mormonism from

the Christianity that was debased for the loss of "many

Plain and Precious Things" from its scriptures by the

"great and abominable church" are listed here:

[the author then lists several unique Mormon doctrines]

The Book of Mormon is the "Stick of Joseph."

Either these doctrines must be found in the Book of Mormon

or Mormonism is subject to the words of Jesus in

His judgment of 3 Nephi 27:11; Alma 13:20; 2 Nephi 28:15;

2 Nephi 28:16, 21-24, 25.

Not only can these things not be found in the Book of Mormon,

but the doctrine of the Book of Mormon is ABSOLUTELY OPPOSED

TO SOME OF THESE "LDS ONLY" DOCTRINES! ...

The Author goes on to list several examples. Note also that this Christian author [saints Alive founder Ed Decker?] takes a "for arguments sake" type approach. (In fact in this and many similar Christian writings the authors, in taking this approach say many things that could be quoted out of context so as to imply that they believe the BoM is true.)

Now many years ago I did in fact go onto Mormon discussion groups under pseudonyms and argued against Mormonism by using their own books in a “for arguments sake” type approach.

[leafytwiglet]

No, we got the authority to establish a Beit Din from the Torah (not me):

Judges and officers shalt thou make thee in all thy gates,

which the LORD thy God giveth thee, throughout thy tribes:

and they shall judge the people with just judgment.

(Deut. 16:18 KJV)

The Beit Din is a voting body.

I find this interesting because tho I am no scholar and no Jew, I believe the intent was for the people of the tribe to select their leaders from among themselves, chosen for the persons mental and moral abilites and understanding of the Torah... not by men appointing themselves as leaders. Lets not forget also the importance of Bloodline within the Jewish faith.

[OldSkool]

Oh no....more long, re-posted gibberish. Defacto defensive answer. Copied from the "defend against people who uncover the real me" file. Move along, nothing more to see here.

[James Trimm]

This seems to have been a drive-by attack, as when I stated it was totally false, rather than give your "particulars" you totally changed the subject.

This was already covered in the PDF file I directed people to at:

http://www.lulu.com/items/volume_68/8857000/8857710/1/print/sl2.pdf

However I will now repost it here:

I am not a proponent of the Book of Mormon. Many years ago (back in the mid 1990’s) I did in fact go onto Mormon discussion groups under pseudonyms and argued against Mormonism by using The Book of Mormon in a “for arguments sake” type approach.

The BoM quotes and paraphrases many phrases, verses, concepts and even whole chapters from the Bible. In fact as much as half or more of the BoM actually closely parallels passages in the Bible. As a result there is much Biblical truth in the BoM. These are Biblical truths that first appeared in the Bible. Therefore regardless of whether or not the BoM is true or not there is none-the-less a great deal of truth in the BoM.

If one takes a Hebraic-Roots approach to these Biblical truths that appear in the BoM one is able teach these truths to Mormons from a "Jewish Perspective" and thus deal with what could be called "Jewishness" in/of the BoM. This "Jewishness" is simply the result of applying a Hebraic-Roots approach and a Jewish perspective to Biblical truths that appear in the BoM. These Biblical truths appear because the BoM quotes and paraphrases many phrases, verses, concepts and even whole chapters from the Bible.

Now because of the fact that the BoM contains Biblical truth, it can be very useful in reaching Mormons with these Biblical truths. And by applying a Jewish/Hebraic-roots perspective on these Biblical truths one can effectively reach Mormons with both Torah and Messiah.

Christian ministries have used this type of approach for years in attempting to reach Mormons with Orthodox Christianity. One tract published by Personal Freedom Outreach says:

Anyone visited by a Mormon Missionary has heard

the Elder's testimony concerning the Book of Mormon:

That he knows this book is the Word of God

and that the founder of the Mormon Church,

Joseph Smith, Jr., translated it by the gift and power of God.

Further, the prospect is encouraged sincerely

to study the Book of Mormon and "The divine truths

it contains."

The Book of Mormon indeed does contain a number of

"divine truths", first set forth in the Bible,...

[the author then lists six of these]

Much of the major theology set forth in the Book of Mormon

is indeed in harmony with orthodox Christianity.

However, many who are visited by the LDS Missionaries

are unaware that the present theology of the Mormon Church

is very different from their own Book of Mormon. ...

Mormon theology is not contained in,

but rather contradicted by the Book of Mormon....

The presence of "Divine Truths" within the Book of Mormon

is merely a result of Joseph Smith, Jr. incorporating

much of the Bible into his work. (see 'The use of the Bible

in the Book of Mormon by H. Michael Marquardt).

- DIVINE TRUTHS IN THE BOOK OF MORMON

http://www.associate.com/ministry_files/The_Reading_Room/False_Teaching_n_Teachers_1/Divine_Truths_In_The_Book_Of_Mo.shtml

There are a number of Christian tracts and ministries that have taken this same approach to disprove Mormon theology and teach Orthodox Christian theology to Mormons using the divine truths in their Book of Mormon.

For example the tract THOSE PLAIN AND PRECIOUS THINGS from Saints Alive:

http://www.saintsalive.com/mormonism/plainandprecious.htm

and an article called:

Joseph Smith vs. the Book of Mormon By Gary F. Zeolla

http://www.dtl.org/cults/article/smith.htm

Some years ago I adapted this same approach to Messianic/Nazarene Judaism. By taking a Hebraic-Roots Jewish approach to these "divine truths" in the Book of Mormon I could actually reach Mormons with real Torah based divine truth USING THEIR OWN BOOK!

This approach becomes very important because Mormons put more stock in the Book of Mormon than in the Bible. As a Saints Alive tract correctly states:

"I (Joseph Smith) told the Brethren that

the Book of Mormon was the most correct

of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion,

and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts,

than by any other book."

(History of the Church, Volume 4, Page 461)

It is the LDS concept that the Bible is the Word of God

as far as it is translated correctly, that is,

what is left of the Bible after many Plain and Precious

Things were removed by the great and abominable church.

The Mormon also "knows" that the Book of Mormon

is the Word of God. It did not have many

Plain and Precious Things removed. It did not

suffer at the hands of many translations.

(Those Plain and Precious Things tract- Saints Alive)

This tract goes on to show that the many unique Mormon doctrines do NOT appear in the Book of Mormon which actually teaches against them. The tract continues further down:

1 Nephi 13:26-36 says that the "great and abominable church"

(verse 26) took away from the gospel many parts and covenants

which were Plain and Precious, in order to pervert the ways of the Lord

and blind the eyes and harden the hearts of the people.

The Bible was corrupted because of this (verse 28). What were

some of those Plain and Precious Things? Are these those that

separate Mormonism from the Christianity that grew out of the past?

Are these not the law of eternal progression, salvation,

baptism for the dead, the nature of God, temples, and polygamy?

The Lord God (Elohim) promised that a day would come

when these things will be restored (verse 32) after the Gentiles

stumble about because of this act of the "mother of harlots"

taking the most Plain and Precious Things of the Gospel

of the Lamb (verse 34). The Lamb of God (Jesus) says exactly

how this restoration of all the Plain and Precious Things

will come about. In verse 35 He says He will manifest Himself

to the Seed of Nephi and they shall write many things all

the precious things taken away by that church and even

after they (your seed) are all gone. These things shall be

hidden up to come forth unto the Gentiles. Verse 36 says,

"And in them shall be written my gospel., saith the Lamb,

and my rock (word "rock" refers to the gospel' see D&C 11:24)

and my salvation." Therefore, the Plain and Precious Things

taken away by the great and abominable church must be restored

in the Book of Mormon. This is verified by Latter-day

revelations also:

"For in them are all things written concerning

the foundation of my church, my gospel, and my rock." (D&C 18:4)

"And again, I command thee that thou shalt not covet

thine own property, but impart it freely to the printing

of the Book of Mormon, which contains the truth and

the Word of God." (D&C 19:26) "And gave him power from on high,

by the means which were before prepared, to translate

the Book of Mormon; which contains a record of a fallen people,

and the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles

and to the Jews also." (D&C 20:8&9) "And again, the elders,

priests and teachers of this church shall teach the principles

of my gospel, which are in the Bible and the Book of Mormon,

in the which is the fullness of the gospel." (D&C 42:12)

What are the things contained in the fullness of the gospel,

the Book of Mormon, which are lost, hidden and not contained

in the Bible? By the Word of God, they must be in the Book

of Mormon. Where are these teaching of Mormonism?

The critical doctrines that separate Mormonism from

the Christianity that was debased for the loss of "many

Plain and Precious Things" from its scriptures by the

"great and abominable church" are listed here:

[the author then lists several unique Mormon doctrines]

The Book of Mormon is the "Stick of Joseph."

Either these doctrines must be found in the Book of Mormon

or Mormonism is subject to the words of Jesus in

His judgment of 3 Nephi 27:11; Alma 13:20; 2 Nephi 28:15;

2 Nephi 28:16, 21-24, 25.

Not only can these things not be found in the Book of Mormon,

but the doctrine of the Book of Mormon is ABSOLUTELY OPPOSED

TO SOME OF THESE "LDS ONLY" DOCTRINES! ...

The Author goes on to list several examples. Note also that this Christian author [saints Alive founder Ed Decker?] takes a "for arguments sake" type approach. (In fact in this and many similar Christian writings the authors, in taking this approach say many things that could be quoted out of context so as to imply that they believe the BoM is true.)

Now many years ago I did in fact go onto Mormon discussion groups under pseudonyms and argued against Mormonism by using their own books in a “for arguments sake” type approach.

In fact an independent Beit Din heard this matter ten years ago and ruled:

We find James Trimm's use of the pseudonym of Rabbi Yosef

not inappropriate on the Mormon forums within James Trimm's

frame of reference.

[James Trimm]

Oh no....more long, re-posted gibberish. Defacto defensive answer. Copied from the "defend against people who uncover the real me" file. Move along, nothing more to see here.

Heaven forbid the truth might be more than your attention span.

You seem to assume anyone is guilty whose defense outlasts your attention span.

[JavaJane]

I was just going to stay out of this... But I have moved beyond boredom into annoyance.

James, go away. We don't care. Most of us have already spent our time in a cult and can see a charlatan coming a mile away. Been there, done that.

My purpose here is to help those who are still in twi and might want out, to help those who have left, to help myself make sense of that part of my life, and to have a couple of laughs along the way.

You do not add to any of these purposes - in fact, you detract from them.

Go away and find some other group - we don't need your leadership, your doctrine, your long posts, or your rules.

[OldSkool]

Heaven forbid the truth might be more than your attention span.

You seem to assume anyone is guilty whose defense outlasts your attention span.

My attention span is guided by relevancy.

[James Trimm]

I find this interesting because tho I am no scholar and no Jew, I believe the intent was for the people of the tribe to select their leaders from among themselves, chosen for the persons mental and moral abilites and understanding of the Torah... not by men appointing themselves as leaders. Lets not forget also the importance of Bloodline within the Jewish faith.

Again I suggest the added context of the free PDF book The Apostasy and Restoration

http://www.lulu.com/items/volume_68/8676000/8676568/2/print/restore2.pdf

When we reorganized the ancient Sect of the Nazarenes in 1996, in the absence of a Nazarene Beit Din, this passage of Deut. required us to establish one.

I have Jewish blood. Mine is through my father and rabbinic Judaism only respects bloodline through a mother. We argue that the linage was Abraham to Isaac to Jacob...

Also Esther 8:17 refers quite plainly to those who "become Jews" (no bloodline involved).

My attention span is guided by relevancy.

How can you judge the relevancy of that which you dismiss as to long to read....

[Gen-2]

Oh the subject is the tangled web woven by one James Scott Trimm over the years. Varieties of websites, screen names, usernames e-mail addresses, all often used by you to support the great scholarship of james Scott Trimm.

No wonder there's a trail of people that dislike you on the Web. You've deceived them in the past, it's rather a habit of yours. I don't mind that you have different views. I don't agree with your "doctrine" even though you always seem to have the NEED to support it with links, or whatever. A lot of people have different beliefs, no problem, But that need to be seen as right (by you) has driven you to do some really crazy stuff over the years.

And to say some foolish things. You've devoted over a decade to trying to convince the internet that you're right, and it seems that about anything is fair game. My view is that it's silly, and I wish you'd just stop it. Outside of your need to support your views, I think you are just a pretty likable guy. But you have this need to be seen on any forum as having everything researched out perfectly. In EVERY forum you've been involved in, it's always the same thing - arguements with the forum members over you being right.

It's hard to take you seriously when you do that. I'm still learning a lot about your web footprint now, in some rather unexpected places. But it's ALL YOU baby! You've spun a web (with others at first) and it's giving my very active mind something to pursue. I'm not out to hurt you here, I just love things that amuse me! ...and this is becomming quite a story. I wonder if the Rabbi will ride again. I have someone checking him out for me. The easy to find lies have ceased to amuse me, but i just keep finding more.

You're an interesting fellow James.

[OldSkool]

How can you judge the relevancy of that which you dismiss as to long to read....

Nice try. I never said I had not read it. James, I find it interesting you decided to zero in on me in an attempt to get a flame war going to distract from folks like Gen-2 who are pulling up your dirty little secrets. Again, nice try.

[James Trimm]

Nice try. I never said I had not read it. James, I find it interesting you decided to zero in on me in an attempt to get a flame war going to distract from folks like Gen-2 who are pulling up your dirty little secrets. Again, nice try.

Sorry if I misinterpreted, but it seems like a reasonable interpretation of your phrase:

"Oh no....more long, re-posted gibberish. Defacto defensive answer. Copied from the "defend against people who uncover the real me" file. Move along, nothing more to see here."

The implication of "long... answer... move along, nothing more to see here."

Seems to imply that if the answer is long it is not worth looking at and must therefore be wrong.

[OldSkool]

.....I know how to end this.....YOUR"E RIGHT!

James, you miss the point entirely. I am not here to discuss you and your posts have been spamming up The About the Way section for weeks. I would wade into any discussion that is About the Way. But I have no concern for your doctrines or positions. I do not believe them. We are different and I will not be converted. Otherwise, you wanna join in on discussing About the Way then I have no problems with you.

[James Trimm]

.....I know how to end this.....YOUR"E RIGHT!

Well I knew THAT :) :) :)

[OldSkool]

Seems to imply that if the answer is long it is not worth looking at and must therefore be wrong.

And, again no. I think long answers confuse the issue. Your brilliance would be better expressed in succinct answers that summarize all the details in short pithy statements.

[Gen-2]

This seems to have been a drive-by attack, as when I stated it was totally false, rather than give your "particulars" you totally changed the subject.

Well He11, you never answered MOST OF my questions, when I asked them before (repeatedly). Can you see a reason I should "JUMP" when you are the one asking? I find it amusing,.... I do.

But what's more amusing is the lengths you've gone to to erase what people have discovered. And if anyone gets the truth out about you,... you get all upset till you make yourself look lika a fool and then you leave.

I'll tell you what,... you answer all my questions and I'll explain the little Web-Trail I found. I won't do it here though,... I'll build a Website and publish all the dirty little interconnected links of the chain I'm rattling> answering your question more than fully!

Fair?

[Abigail]

.....I know how to end this.....YOUR"E RIGHT!

James, you miss the point entirely. I am not here to discuss you and your posts have been spamming up The About the Way section for weeks. I would wade into any discussion that is About the Way. But I have no concern for your doctrines or positions. I do not believe them. We are different and I will not be converted. Otherwise, you wanna join in on discussing About the Way then I have no problems with you.

Personally, I would LOVE to see him come back to the doctrinal forum. I think there could be some very interesting discussions there! But, that is only IF IF IF he can actually participate in a discussion, as opposed to simply posting lectures.

For instance, I would LOVE to know what he bases his law regarding weekly synagogue attendence on. I would also LVOE to know how the Book of Mormon somehow fulfilled the commandments regarding the most holy of holy days!!

and Gen, I hope you will continue to share. From a study of human behavior perspective, this is quite fascinating.

[Gen-2]

Personally, I would LOVE to see him come back to the doctrinal forum. I think there could be some very interesting discussions there! But, that is only IF IF IF he can actually participate in a discussion, as opposed to simply posting lectures.

For instance, I would LOVE to know what he bases his law regarding weekly synagogue attendence on. I would also LVOE to know how the Book of Mormon somehow fulfilled the commandments regarding the most holy of holy days!!

and Gen, I hope you will continue to share. From a study of human behavior perspective, this is quite fascinating.

There's such a massive volume of stuff to share. My current favorite is about James' admitted adultery. I'm also looking into his pleas for "donations" His various yahoo groups, where as the owner, he deleted the posts of others so they could not publically confront him on issues he didn't want to have discussed. I'm having those posts sent to me soon. esp the ones from Yahoo Groups he owned and killed (and I mean he killed the entire group once too many people were onto him).

A lot of people ordered his HRV and never got it. He asked them for a donation in advance. They gave and no HRV was delivered. It was a donation.

Of course now, that the TWI suit is cleared, you think he'd rush those copies right out to them all. I aim to get in contact with many who "Gave".

I'm curious, but I'd rather see him get honest, and talk to us, rather than at us more. That, you're not worth the time it takes to write is a helluva attitude, of course if it's something Doctor/Rabbi James Scott Trimm wants, he doesn't cut and paste his questions - he actually asks them himself. No doubt , if he owned GSC, my post here would be deleted. Instead, he just largely ignores what I write,... but I'll bet he'd take my money!

LOL !!!

[James Trimm]

A lot of people ordered his HRV and never got it. He asked them for a donation in advance. They gave and no HRV was delivered. It was a donation.

Of course now, that the TWI suit is cleared, you think he'd rush those copies right out to them all. I aim to get in contact with many who "Gave".

Did James Trimm Defraud People and Steal Thousands of Dollars? - Another internet rumor is that James Trimm stole thousands of dollars and never delivered Hebraic Roots Version Bibles to people that bought them. This is false. When we first published the HRV “New Testament” in 2001 it was a successful effort, but when we printed the whole Bible in 2004 the effort was plagued with problems. The printer used a subcontracter in India who delivered fewer copies than promised, six months late and with a thirty to fifty percent defective rate. We simply did not have enough copies to meet all of our obligations. We had promised copies to everyone who had donated a minimum suggested donation amount. These were not sales, these were to be appreciation gifts to our supporters who had donated to support the printing. Sadly we were unable to meet this obligation. We apologized to the community and asked for their forgiveness. In 2005 I.S.R. took over publication of the HRV. At that time we made an arrangement to offer free copies of the ISR edition to those who had not gotten their appreciation gift HRV, this program was paid for out of my royalties on the first printing. Some few have since complained that they still never got a copy, the vast majority of these people are persons who refused the ISR edition when it was offered. We did everything in our power to resolve this situation, but could only do so much.

Edited June 8, 2010 by James Trimm

[Gen-2]

Interesting that the money part is the part you chose to reply to. Oddly enough, even after you were aware of the problems, you were still soliciting donations for Books (which you now claim) were becomming undeliverable, of course... you still took the money. Anyways,... I'm not all that interested in the book. It was more of how the failure to deliver damaged your credibility, but you still kept the money.

The Way had a Lawsuit like that. The Peeler Suit. There are links to the Evidentiary hearing for that here on GSC. In it a man asked for his donation to be refunded

"Did James Trimm Defraud People and Steal Thousands of Dollars?" I had been running into individual complaints, so far but Googling that phrase does provide more stuff. I don't care if you ripped off your followers. That's entirely UP TO YOU.

When a person claiming to speak for God defrauds another, it doesn't matter why. The trick is to not promise something before you are sure you can deliver it. Once you have the books - then you can sell them... Something about not counting your chickens before they hatch comes to mind. But the people you pi$$ed off are your problem, and as you say you dealt with it,... them.

Still,... there's that money! gotta have it !!!

Poor ungrateful slobs that didn't want another product years later,.... serves'em right! CHA- CHING!!!!!!!!! Oh yeah Baby!!!!!

[Gen-2]

Back in 1998 I was sent to live with my dad.... lol !!!

Being a real curious teen I went through his attic and found all his Way stuff. I watched the PFAL Class on Beta tape. I also got into all his way junk - books tapes, read everything, listened to some 2,000 SNS cassettes, music tapes.

Unfortunately, while I was in the Marines in 2004, a lot of this stuff was damaged by Hurricanes Charlie and Fran. Dad wasn't at home, my closest sib was in Orlando dealing with the storms himself and couldn't get out to dad's house to stop the damage to the roof - he had his own hands full.

But one of the things I remember readinf was "Love Letters" a wonderful book of Doctor Victor Paul Weirwille, in which he spent an entire book quoting himself. Apparently the book sold pretty good to the Wayfers, there was even a sort of related tape I listened to with the same title.

This would be right up James' alley, something like this. James on James. Just like a Book of Vic on Vic. Really there could be money in this! You get to control the content. Maybe an E-Book?

The parallel is --- well, funny.