Nice thoughtful writeup, and it's good to hear an outside perspective. His theology certainly was a mishmash of different concepts of his time. I think you also have to include Conspiracy Theorists in the mix there, as many of the more "advanced" teachings he would do during the 70's after the hippie movement influx would usually include some element of a consipiracy theory of one kind or another, whether it be the Illuminati, being in Vietnam to protect Roman Catholic real estate interests, the conspiracy to protect the nation of Israel where a lot of your anti-semitism came from and was involved, and many other similar things.
The more I think about it, I have a good friend who is Jehovah's Witness and from talking to him, I can see a lot of similarities in certain beliefs they hold with TWI. Vast difference too.
Actually I've long thought that there are a great deal of similarities between JW's and TWI - some of my distant relatives are JW's. More of a "feel" type of thing rather than all of the details of the beliefs.
They are very autocratically run - a lot of micromanagement The Watchtower Society rules with a heavy hand. They make ex-communication a real threat, and the fear of this keeps members in line. There is mandated witnessing, all handing out that Awake and Watchtower magazine tract. (TWI will dispute 'mandated' witnessing, there it's both peer pressured and just 'scheduled in' - to me, same thing). If you look at the publications, the Watchtower magazine and artwork all is really dumbed down - like it is an elementary Sunday school publication in the artwork, and 6th grade reading in the articles. They are kind of seperatist, which TWI denies, but really is as well, especially when you get to all of those kooks on the farm in Ohio. JW's do the holistic medicine thing, and holistic medicine nut jobs are spread like wildfire throughout TWI. People in JW don't do 'community involvement', and like that TWI members are always at a meeting or with the 'household' as opposed to community things.
YMMV, but to me there are similar feels, and both are very, very controlling groups.
Actually I've long thought that there are a great deal of similarities between JW's and TWI - some of my distant relatives are JW's. More of a "feel" type of thing rather than all of the details of the beliefs.
They are very autocratically run - a lot of micromanagement The Watchtower Society rules with a heavy hand. They make ex-communication a real threat, and the fear of this keeps members in line. There is mandated witnessing, all handing out that Awake and Watchtower magazine tract. (TWI will dispute 'mandated' witnessing, there it's both peer pressured and just 'scheduled in' - to me, same thing). If you look at the publications, the Watchtower magazine and artwork all is really dumbed down - like it is an elementary Sunday school publication in the artwork, and 6th grade reading in the articles. They are kind of seperatist, which TWI denies, but really is as well, especially when you get to all of those kooks on the farm in Ohio. JW's do the holistic medicine thing, and holistic medicine nut jobs are spread like wildfire throughout TWI. People in JW don't do 'community involvement', and like that TWI members are always at a meeting or with the 'household' as opposed to community things.
YMMV, but to me there are similar feels, and both are very, very controlling groups.
They used to come en masse during Watchtower weekend to a restuarant I served at . . . they all wore blue nametags . . .
James, there are more websites proclaiming you to be a fraud than even TWI has. Go find someone else's playground. I would warn those of you who are kind hearted enough to want to assist in educating this person about TWI. He will take what he learns and use it in his attempts to manipulate you.
A simple GOOGLE SEARCH and you can learn about his false Ph.d and many of his deceptive practices.
For someone to have this many negative websites designed specifically to expose him . . . well, like I said, he has more negative press than even TWI has.
FWIW, one of the websites discusses how he at one time purported to have involvement with the Mormons so he could recruit among them as well. And then there is the allged Jewish upbringing, and . . . . you tell him of TWI, you give him amunition.
James, there are more websites proclaiming you to be a fraud than even TWI has. Go find someone else's playground. I would warn those of you who are kind hearted enough to want to assist in educating this person about TWI. He will take what he learns and use it in his attempts to manipulate you.
A simple GOOGLE SEARCH and you can learn about his false Ph.d and many of his deceptive practices.
For someone to have this many negative websites designed specifically to expose him . . . well, like I said, he has more negative press than even TWI has.
FWIW, one of the websites discusses how he at one time purported to have involvement with the Mormons so he could recruit among them as well. And then there is the allged Jewish upbringing, and . . . . you tell him of TWI, you give him amunition.
Actually I have never claimed to have a Ph.D., my Degree is an S.T.D. from a non-accredited Seminary.
But hey these are just silly facts I wouldn't want anyone to get confused with...
TWI believed the garbage on those web sites as well... but after they filed a real lawsuit with real discovery and depositions and prepared for a real trial where the facts matter, they were quite ready to settle rather than go to court. You can put almost anything on the internet, true or false, there is no great internet editor out there...
"Hopefully adults know that a lot of what they read on the web is just not right, and just not true. But kids don't know that, they read it and think that it says it, it must be true. … There is no editor on the internet so people can put stuff out there that is just absolutely drop dead wrong."
- Dr. Phil McGraw (Wed. 12-16-09)
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the
strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them
better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena,
whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives
valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is
not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually
strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great
devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows
in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he
fails, at least he fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall
never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor
defeat."
- Theodore Roosevelt quotes (American 26th US President (1901-09),
1858-1919)
My response to some of the other Slander that has been posted about me on the internet:
I don't always agree with what Abigail says on here...but i think in this case ( in my mind ) she's 'right on the button. It seems James is happy to side with VPW on the Aramaic side of things coz that helps push his 'barrow of course.Infiltrate & prozelyte is obviously still an avenue of recruitment james enjoys...off to check on the links Abigail suggested.
Information about his false degree can be found HERE There are other websites that deal with this claim as well.
HERE you can find a document from the group he splintered off from, when he left to start his own little cult.
It is interesting to me, that the Messianic Jewish movement is considered to be something of a fringe group anyway, and even they have all disavowed Trimm. His group is considered a fringe group even by the fringe groups!
Information about his false degree can be found HERE There are other websites that deal with this claim as well.
HERE you can find a document from the group he splintered off from, when he left to start his own little cult.
It is interesting to me, that the Messianic Jewish movement is considered to be something of a fringe group anyway, and even they have all disavowed Trimm. His group is considered a fringe group even by the fringe groups!
What I thought was particularly poignant was this group.... Nazarene Fraud Victims http://groups.yahoo...._fraud_victims/ in some ways it reminded me of our little group here at GSC. A collection of individuals speaking out against religious abuse. I was struck by the similarity of tactics used on people, in particular manipulative language. Take for example... the use of Lashon HaRa as a means of censoring. Perusing these pages was reminiscent of TWI, with its negative confession, possession, shunning and using the "word"as a means of control.
If you follow some of the links from that group it brings you to this page http://www.mashiyach...estrimmcrap.htm where you find the term Lashon HaRa suggested...Doesn't it seem to usually start off with a suggestion and subtle persuasion to a mindset...the lure of some kind of brotherhood and exclusivity? However, it can quickly turn to bold face confrontation and some kind of shunning if people do not obey the "Word" the "Torah" or whatever holy writ the leader has decided to interpret for the world.
Notice it is hardly ever "obey God" with these guys...but usually the promotion of an unhealthy allegiance to some book that can be manipulated? Always so far out of the mainstream?
I do understand that I may be somewhat overly sensitive to certain language.....but, I believe being aware of manipulative tactics is a invaluable skill which we all have paid dearly to possess.
... you can find a document from the group he splintered off from, when he left to start his own little cult.
If anyone chooses to read my PDF they will find that I was like a loot of you, I left a group because the leader exercised un-biblical leadership and claimed to be my "covering" (In Hebrew "covering and "atonement" are the same work KIPPUR) and the day after I left I was disfellowshipped publicly for the "crime" of "seeking his own way apart from the congregation"... in short I left a "cult" and was "marked for avoidance" for having done so.
I left that group around 1988 and I did not found the reorganization of "Nazarene Judaism" until 1996 so the claim that I split from one group o create another is false. Is Nazarene Judaism a cult? Well I could count on one hand the number of people who we have disfellowshipped since 1996 (nearly fifteen years). Our statement of faith is intentionally broad and short. We believe in unity on the essentials and against division over non-essentials.
A lot like us, except that we didn't start a splinter group, we don't recruit followers, and we don't ask for tithes and donations. Just a few minor details.
A lot like us, except that we didn't start a splinter group, we don't recruit followers, and we don't ask for tithes and donations. Just a few minor details.
I only recruit people to follow Messiah (i.e. Matthew 28:18-20) and "tithes and donations" are simply part of the Torah like keeping the Sabbath, eating Kosher and keeping Biblical festivals. I don't ask for tithes, YHWH does not "ask" for them either, He already owns the tithe (Lev. 27:30) as he owns everything (Ex. 9:29; 2Kn. 19:15; Is. 66:1-2; Jer. 27:5; Job 12:9-10; Ps. 89:11; 95:3-5; Dan. 4:7; Neh. 9:16; 1Chron. 29:13-14) and in fact no one is ever described in Scripture as "giving" the tithe, they "pay" the tithe and in fact when they do not pay the tithe YHWH refers to this as having been stolen form Him (Mal. 3:8-9).
I do not want to get into a doctrinal debate here, that is not for this sub-board. Abigail seems to be attacking our beliefs. We are Torah observant believers in Messiah, and Torah includes the tithe.
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Gen-2
Now James. You owned the Website for the college, which you once used to convince someone you had a degree (circa 2003). I have the particulars - but my question is WHY? Why did you do that, and you d
Gen-2
James, You are also a Rabbi? "Rabbi Yosef - Based largely on research by other authors." (No Doubt) Also in one article (as The Rabbi), you quote James Scott Trimm (amusing) ..........(Article co
Gen-2
He's been at this for a long time Abigail. In fact the Book of Mormons is one of his favorite Jewish subjects Back in 1997 he wrote this gem,... oh, and as a Rabbi, quoting himself - touching! ====
OldSkool
Good stuff.
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chockfull
James,
Nice thoughtful writeup, and it's good to hear an outside perspective. His theology certainly was a mishmash of different concepts of his time. I think you also have to include Conspiracy Theorists in the mix there, as many of the more "advanced" teachings he would do during the 70's after the hippie movement influx would usually include some element of a consipiracy theory of one kind or another, whether it be the Illuminati, being in Vietnam to protect Roman Catholic real estate interests, the conspiracy to protect the nation of Israel where a lot of your anti-semitism came from and was involved, and many other similar things.
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OldSkool
The more I think about it, I have a good friend who is Jehovah's Witness and from talking to him, I can see a lot of similarities in certain beliefs they hold with TWI. Vast difference too.
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chockfull
Actually I've long thought that there are a great deal of similarities between JW's and TWI - some of my distant relatives are JW's. More of a "feel" type of thing rather than all of the details of the beliefs.
They are very autocratically run - a lot of micromanagement The Watchtower Society rules with a heavy hand. They make ex-communication a real threat, and the fear of this keeps members in line. There is mandated witnessing, all handing out that Awake and Watchtower magazine tract. (TWI will dispute 'mandated' witnessing, there it's both peer pressured and just 'scheduled in' - to me, same thing). If you look at the publications, the Watchtower magazine and artwork all is really dumbed down - like it is an elementary Sunday school publication in the artwork, and 6th grade reading in the articles. They are kind of seperatist, which TWI denies, but really is as well, especially when you get to all of those kooks on the farm in Ohio. JW's do the holistic medicine thing, and holistic medicine nut jobs are spread like wildfire throughout TWI. People in JW don't do 'community involvement', and like that TWI members are always at a meeting or with the 'household' as opposed to community things.
YMMV, but to me there are similar feels, and both are very, very controlling groups.
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WordWolf
I'm not going to respond to most of this now. However, the more I learn about victor paul wierwille,
the more I see that he took ideas from everyone else with no original ideas of his own.
(With the possible exception of saying that God thought orgies were acceptable but not "best".)
This one here on Holy Spirit almost certainly came from Bullinger's
"Word Studies on the Holy Spirit"
(formerly known as "Gifts of the Holy Spirit" or something like that.)
That's the book that goes through all the usages of the term in the New Testament
and attempted to document exactly what it referred to in each case.
(Presuming they meant different things.)
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James Trimm
Thanks for the clarification.
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GeorgeStGeorge
Yes. Although Bullinger was trinitarian, he differentiated between the Giver and the gift.
George
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Bolshevik
They used to come en masse during Watchtower weekend to a restuarant I served at . . . they all wore blue nametags . . .
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OldSkool
nametags in public = cult freakshow!
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waysider
It has occurred to me that we may have actually needed the name tags because, after a while, you start to forget who you really are.
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Bolshevik
It's like "The Mask" . . .only different . . .
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waysider
I dunno. I'm thinking it was more like Kabuki.
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Bolshevik
You may be right . . . is pale ale a beer with an identity crisis?
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Abigail
James, there are more websites proclaiming you to be a fraud than even TWI has. Go find someone else's playground. I would warn those of you who are kind hearted enough to want to assist in educating this person about TWI. He will take what he learns and use it in his attempts to manipulate you.
A simple GOOGLE SEARCH and you can learn about his false Ph.d and many of his deceptive practices.
For someone to have this many negative websites designed specifically to expose him . . . well, like I said, he has more negative press than even TWI has.
FWIW, one of the websites discusses how he at one time purported to have involvement with the Mormons so he could recruit among them as well. And then there is the allged Jewish upbringing, and . . . . you tell him of TWI, you give him amunition.
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James Trimm
Actually I have never claimed to have a Ph.D., my Degree is an S.T.D. from a non-accredited Seminary.
But hey these are just silly facts I wouldn't want anyone to get confused with...
TWI believed the garbage on those web sites as well... but after they filed a real lawsuit with real discovery and depositions and prepared for a real trial where the facts matter, they were quite ready to settle rather than go to court. You can put almost anything on the internet, true or false, there is no great internet editor out there...
"Hopefully adults know that a lot of what they read on the web is just not right, and just not true. But kids don't know that, they read it and think that it says it, it must be true. … There is no editor on the internet so people can put stuff out there that is just absolutely drop dead wrong."
- Dr. Phil McGraw (Wed. 12-16-09)
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the
strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them
better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena,
whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives
valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is
not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually
strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great
devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows
in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he
fails, at least he fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall
never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor
defeat."
- Theodore Roosevelt quotes (American 26th US President (1901-09),
1858-1919)
My response to some of the other Slander that has been posted about me on the internet:
http://www.lulu.com/items/volume_68/8857000/8857710/1/print/sl2.pdf
My response to accusations of plagiarism and copyright infringement:
http://www.lulu.com/items/volume_68/8850000/8850159/1/print/jstrimm3.pdf
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waysider
You might consider not abbreviating it.
I'm just sayin'
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polynesian
I don't always agree with what Abigail says on here...but i think in this case ( in my mind ) she's 'right on the button. It seems James is happy to side with VPW on the Aramaic side of things coz that helps push his 'barrow of course.Infiltrate & prozelyte is obviously still an avenue of recruitment james enjoys...off to check on the links Abigail suggested.
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Abigail
Information about his false degree can be found HERE There are other websites that deal with this claim as well.
HERE you can find a document from the group he splintered off from, when he left to start his own little cult.
It is interesting to me, that the Messianic Jewish movement is considered to be something of a fringe group anyway, and even they have all disavowed Trimm. His group is considered a fringe group even by the fringe groups!
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geisha779
What I thought was particularly poignant was this group.... Nazarene Fraud Victims http://groups.yahoo...._fraud_victims/ in some ways it reminded me of our little group here at GSC. A collection of individuals speaking out against religious abuse. I was struck by the similarity of tactics used on people, in particular manipulative language. Take for example... the use of Lashon HaRa as a means of censoring. Perusing these pages was reminiscent of TWI, with its negative confession, possession, shunning and using the "word"as a means of control.
If you follow some of the links from that group it brings you to this page http://www.mashiyach...estrimmcrap.htm where you find the term Lashon HaRa suggested...Doesn't it seem to usually start off with a suggestion and subtle persuasion to a mindset...the lure of some kind of brotherhood and exclusivity? However, it can quickly turn to bold face confrontation and some kind of shunning if people do not obey the "Word" the "Torah" or whatever holy writ the leader has decided to interpret for the world.
Notice it is hardly ever "obey God" with these guys...but usually the promotion of an unhealthy allegiance to some book that can be manipulated? Always so far out of the mainstream?
I do understand that I may be somewhat overly sensitive to certain language.....but, I believe being aware of manipulative tactics is a invaluable skill which we all have paid dearly to possess.
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James Trimm
If anyone chooses to read my PDF they will find that I was like a loot of you, I left a group because the leader exercised un-biblical leadership and claimed to be my "covering" (In Hebrew "covering and "atonement" are the same work KIPPUR) and the day after I left I was disfellowshipped publicly for the "crime" of "seeking his own way apart from the congregation"... in short I left a "cult" and was "marked for avoidance" for having done so.
I left that group around 1988 and I did not found the reorganization of "Nazarene Judaism" until 1996 so the claim that I split from one group o create another is false. Is Nazarene Judaism a cult? Well I could count on one hand the number of people who we have disfellowshipped since 1996 (nearly fifteen years). Our statement of faith is intentionally broad and short. We believe in unity on the essentials and against division over non-essentials.
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Abigail
A lot like us, except that we didn't start a splinter group, we don't recruit followers, and we don't ask for tithes and donations. Just a few minor details.
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James Trimm
I only recruit people to follow Messiah (i.e. Matthew 28:18-20) and "tithes and donations" are simply part of the Torah like keeping the Sabbath, eating Kosher and keeping Biblical festivals. I don't ask for tithes, YHWH does not "ask" for them either, He already owns the tithe (Lev. 27:30) as he owns everything (Ex. 9:29; 2Kn. 19:15; Is. 66:1-2; Jer. 27:5; Job 12:9-10; Ps. 89:11; 95:3-5; Dan. 4:7; Neh. 9:16; 1Chron. 29:13-14) and in fact no one is ever described in Scripture as "giving" the tithe, they "pay" the tithe and in fact when they do not pay the tithe YHWH refers to this as having been stolen form Him (Mal. 3:8-9).
I do not want to get into a doctrinal debate here, that is not for this sub-board. Abigail seems to be attacking our beliefs. We are Torah observant believers in Messiah, and Torah includes the tithe.
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cman
Abigail disagrees with you and pointing out some of what you are missing and just plain wrong tactics.
I don't know who 'we' is, unless you think it's you.
Your beliefs are the way you want to see them,
and the tithe has always been voluntary,
as well as no set percent anywhere forever.
Nor do you see that any tithe is to help those who can't.
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WordWolf
For the curious, James crossposted the same response to 2 threads.
My response to this was already posted, so I'll just link to the
page.
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