It is painfully obvious by the reproducible results that AWARENESS changed the behavior of the wave/particle beam.
A similar phenomenon in the field of psychology is called the Hawthorne Effect (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawthorne_effect). That is, simply knowing that you're being observed can modify your behavior.
As if anyone has been able to adequately define "spirit". We all think we know what it is...but honestly, does anyone really know?
Question: do you think "spirit" is the same as "soul"? (I'm somewhat familiar with TWI's teaching on this but I'm interested in what you think.
What a leap of logic it takes to attempt to equate what happens to sub atomic particles if they are forced through one or two slits with what happens in the spiritual realm.
But that is what everyone has done while in TWI to some degree - taken a leap of logic.
As if there was anything remotely logical about harnessing the spiritual realm, yet over and over someone attempts to explain it in some sort of scientific terms.
Here's some quotes from other innies on Dude's FB page. Scrubbed for privacy but check out how they all act as if this is some amazing new revelation. As if the missing link has been found. Sad really. Most of it reads like content for a thank you card to the board of directors. Note: Dude is Way Corps, perhaps some of this is boot polishing? Without further adieu.
(name removed), thank you for this info! I have always been a logic/fact based thinker, and that can be a handicap when it comes to believing and claiming the promises of God - "Yes, but how??" being the question. It's great to learn more of the truth behind the facts, and I am delighted to see again how our God is not the author of confusion, but ALL his works are done decently and in order.
Quantum is fascinating - something only God truly understands. One of the things that convinced me to stand with TWI is how science and the Bible do make sense together. Your post helps build the reasoning behind not allowing ourselves to doubt, but to decide what we are going to believe, fortify our minds so we don't get swayed, and never give up. The whole universe responds when we are fully persuaded. Thanks (name removed).
coolio nerdiness! mmmmm...I wonder what would happen to the particles if we observed through the eyes of someone who was happy / sad / positive / negative? Do different emotions produce different results? So so much we don't know. Thx 4 sharing!
You have some great intellectuals as friends =)
Elle, I also am continually blessed that true science always fits with God's Word! Of course it does since God is the Author=)
There is so much we have yet to understand. All that dunamis that is stored in us, we just have to search the treasures in the Word to unvail what is available to us and then take action.
Most interesting Dave!!!!!! Genuine science always fits with the Word of God-after all He created it!
It's interesting to see how many think it such new information and it's so wonderful because it backs up what they believe.
I remember a "brainiac" in fellowship explaining to me how a spiritualist could make an ash tray leave one place and show up in another place. He explained that atoms are made up of protons, nutrons, and electrons. There is space in between each of these elements within an atom. The space in the explanation for the suddenly appearing ash tray in another location. However, it didn't explain why you couldn't see it.
Remember when the advanced class talked about psychic surger and how devil spirits influenced it? It was no more than slight of hand. My in-laws traveled to the Phillipines to have it. They are still sick today in their 80s.
Levitation? I dunno how that was aexplained. It's just devil spirits you know.
Why do they have to try and force science into their belief system? Why do they feel like they have to KNOW so darn much? I mean, just let spirit and God and all that stuff be MYSTERIOUS. It's bigger than any human being, and for humanity to claim they can explain God/spirit is just plain arrogant. And not very fun. I really enjoy feeling like I have to have an explanation for EVERY thing out there. It takes the pressure off and allows me to just observe and sit in awe of how incredible our universe and Creator is. (I'm not speaking about science here or subatomic particles, but specifically trying to scientifically explain the unexplainable.)
Because those who lack a relationship with God either seek after signs, or after esoteric knowledge
in an attempt to find what's missing.
(They can feel they're missing SOMETHING, but not WHAT they're missing.)
I Corinthians 1:21-24 (KJV)
21For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
22For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
I Corinthians 1:21-24 (NASB)
21For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.
22For indeed Jews ask for signs and Greeks search for wisdom;
23but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness,
24but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
A similar phenomenon in the field of psychology is called the Hawthorne Effect (see http://en.wikipedia....thorne_effect). That is, simply knowing that you're being observed can modify your behavior.
Which would make one wonder if all life is "aware" in the sense that we are aware.
Question: do you think "spirit" is the same as "soul"? (I'm somewhat familiar with TWI's teaching on this but I'm interested in what you think.
No. But I do think that "spirit" and "soul" are far more intertwined than I once believed.
I believe soul is what gives me life, while spirit is what gives my life meaning.
How in the heck do they make the leap of saying this substantiates the law of believing? I mean that's what it really comes back to.
Does it show the link between thought patterns and behavior and the results we get in life? We have heard of those who propose the "power of positive thinking." And more recently the proponents of The Secret and the Law of Attraction.
The Bible teaches us that we receive what we believe, that all things are possible to him that believes, that all men reap what they sow (mentally and in life), that as a man thinks, so is he. Is the connection between the physical realm and the realm of thought somewhere at this subatomic level?
Do we really affect and marshall the forces of the universe to bring us favorable results or unfavorable results based on our positive believing or negative fear? Is this why doubt, worry and fear brings us negative results, while trust, confidence and believing brings us positive ones?
Is this part of the design of the universe that makes possible the connection between the spiritual realm and the physical realm?
All this is suggested by these results and the work of Dr. Amit Goswami further confirms it with newer and more expansive experiments.
We truly have a wondrous and bizarre world around us that we can enjoy discovering more and more. I don't think we've even scratched the surface of it yet. It is certainly someting to think about and to ponder.
Leap after leap. So much for inductive reasoning, eh?
This really comes back grabbing straws that haven't the slightest connection to the law of believing error and mashing them together and saying "SEE - it's God's Word!"
But, here's the logic leap.
Does the universe itself have a mechanism built into it where the mere change of variables determines how it behaves, where a deliberate decision affects the outcome? When scientists decide to and actually measure and observe, it acts like a particle, when they decide to let it be and not watch, it acts like a wave. Why?
I believe soul is what gives me life, while spirit is what gives my life meaning.
Maybe it's just semantics, but I think it's the reverse, i.e., all life has a "life-giving spirit" in that it is motivated to reproduce (create more life).
I see "soul" as being more of a "personality" thing that is reflected in the way you live life and the things you create. For example, among musicians, some clearly have more soul than others and it is obvious in their ability to perform a solo. Some are clearly better at it than others. It has nothing to do with their knowledge of music or their proficiency in playing their instrument. It has to do with their ability to use that performance to express themselves.
I think some people lack any soul whatsoever -- most sociopaths, for example.
I thought that Ockham's Razor suggested that- since neither "particle" nor "wave" can fully
explain electrons, that BOTH explanations are WRONG and that the actual answer
has yet to be found.
I had a Chemistry professor in college say that, and it's the best answer I've heard
as to why neither explanation works WELL.
Actually, we're learning quite a bit about this. It turns out that both are right (to some extent), and that more answers simply raise more questions, and that all 'of the answers are yet to be found'. There have actually been a rash of new discoveries in the last year on how they behave. The One hypothesis, that makes the most sense, is one that scientists (including myself) are steering away from. You see,... from what we can tell matter seems to disappear sometimes. Oh gawds the question that one is raising!
The simple answer is that they are not, in fact, disappearing, but they are in three states: Material - in our dimension, energy, and Material - in another dimension. But we don't understand "Other Dimensions" and some simply don't believe in them (realists), even though fractal and string/superstring math supports this. But then again, we used to believe that nothing moves faster than the speed of light (Einstien). Some Bright young (then) Quantum Physicist pointed out that in order to convert matter into energy it has to move at the speed of light squared. Well Einstien was upset at that, using his formula to point out the obvious. He eschewed quantum physics as nonsense.
We are just learning, we'll know more next year. I figured out how to flip a quantum field tis year in a cloud of plasma. that discovery yielded tremendous possibilities in nanotechnology. Naturally, as a research assistant, I won't get credit,... others will. But one day it'll be my turn to publish my findings.
Electrons do a lot of funny things besided the duality they exhibit. It's all fascinating to me. For instance, they travel fast enough to convert into energy.
Actually, we're learning quite a bit about this. It turns out that both are right (to some extent), and that more answers simply raise more questions, and that all 'of the answers are yet to be found'. There have actually been a rash of new discoveries in the last year on how they behave. The One hypothesis, that makes the most sense, is one that scientists (including myself) are steering away from. You see,... from what we can tell matter seems to disappear sometimes. Oh gawds the question that one is raising!
The simple answer is that they are not, in fact, disappearing, but they are in three states: Material - in our dimension, energy, and Material - in another dimension. But we don't understand "Other Dimensions" and some simply don't believe in them (realists), even though fractal and string/superstring math supports this. But then again, we used to believe that nothing moves faster than the speed of light (Einstien). Some Bright young (then) Quantum Physicist pointed out that in order to convert matter into energy it has to move at the speed of light squared. Well Einstien was upset at that, using his formula to point out the obvious. He eschewed quantum physics as nonsense.
We are just learning, we'll know more next year. I figured out how to flip a quantum field tis year in a cloud of plasma. that discovery yielded tremendous possibilities in nanotechnology. Naturally, as a research assistant, I won't get credit,... others will. But one day it'll be my turn to publish my findings.
Electrons do a lot of funny things besided the duality they exhibit. It's all fascinating to me. For instance, they travel fast enough to convert into energy.
Figuring out "how to flip a quantum field... in a cloud of plasma"!?! I KNOW I'm too old of a dog to do something like THAT! Shoot, I use a can of spray paint to paint my toy soldiers now :-(
I'm glad you're here, Gen-2, and I look forward to reading your findings when they're published. Not that I will particularly understand your formulas... but I have enough math to savor elegance!
Upon reading this thread, I have decided to take the advice of Mark Twain when he said, "Better to keep your mouth shut and let everyone think you're a fool then to open it and remove all doubt."
I just hope you're not the one hurting the cows, Ham......
Heh..
No. Cows are definitely safe from strange scientific experiments here..
I can remember a half a dozen intense impressions (visions?) when I was young.. all but one seem to have meant something.. I toss the last one out every once in a while in hopes somebody else knows what it is..
The graduation ceremony I was in came fairly close. Except for the decor..
there were taller windows.. but not anywhere near ten meters high.
heh.. it could mean simply nothing at all.. maybe an over active imagination or something.. I could live with that..
Law of believing, Tony Robbing, The Secret, The Law of Attraction.....it's the same and it's all good until you actually put it to the test and it's proven false. Then it's your fault and you need to go work on things.
Thanks, I partucularily enjoyed this gem:
The Bank of the Universe
The Bank of the Universe is open and with the universal check, you can visualize the unlimited abundance that is yours for the asking.
Print the check, fill in your name and the amount you wish to receive in your chosen currency, then sign and date it. Place the check in a prominent position where you will see it every day! Every time you look at your check, believe and feel that you have the money now!
It's simple but sad. Go imagine all the things you want and if by chance they happen give us the credit and your money. If they don't happen right away keep up the good work knowing it's coming soon and give us the credit and your money. If it never happens keep on imagining it will and give us the credit and your money. If it doesn't happen and you deny us we will call you the weakest link and paint you as the failure because our principles just work - we will accept your money again once you admit we have been right all along.
I know I'm not the only person who bought one of those
"MOUNTAINTOP CHECKBOOKS" twi printed and sold.
They were effectively the same thing.
I didn't buy one but I sure bought the false concept hook, line, and sinker. Only found it didn't work when I really needed it to come through. Of course I was blamed as the weakest link.
No. Cows are definitely safe from strange scientific experiments here..
I can remember a half a dozen intense impressions (visions?) when I was young.. all but one seem to have meant something.. I toss the last one out every once in a while in hopes somebody else knows what it is..
The graduation ceremony I was in came fairly close. Except for the decor..
there were taller windows.. but not anywhere near ten meters high.
heh.. it could mean simply nothing at all.. maybe an over active imagination or something.. I could live with that..
Well when you get your "New Body", maybe you won't be naked.
"The whole universe responds when we are fully persuaded. Thanks"
Yes, dude, the whole universe responds you YOU!
What EGO this promotes.....oh, wait, we are talking TWI folks, I almost forgot with all the love bombs they throw lately.....
Same error, same atheistic beliefs under the guise of a Godly system, same self-centered, self-indulging attitudes.....just waiting for the next insatiable, lusty, selfish behavior to rear its ugly head....
They even love some of the "preachers'' on TV~ the ones that promote health, wealth and prosperity ONLY!!!
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Gen-2
I just hope you're not the one hurting the cows, Ham......
Gen-2
Actually, we're learning quite a bit about this. It turns out that both are right (to some extent), and that more answers simply raise more questions, and that all 'of the answers are yet to be found'
Broken Arrow
Upon reading this thread, I have decided to take the advice of Mark Twain when he said, "Better to keep your mouth shut and let everyone think you're a fool then to open it and remove all doubt."
soul searcher
A similar phenomenon in the field of psychology is called the Hawthorne Effect (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawthorne_effect). That is, simply knowing that you're being observed can modify your behavior.
Question: do you think "spirit" is the same as "soul"? (I'm somewhat familiar with TWI's teaching on this but I'm interested in what you think.
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Tzaia
Continuing on my rant...
What a leap of logic it takes to attempt to equate what happens to sub atomic particles if they are forced through one or two slits with what happens in the spiritual realm.
But that is what everyone has done while in TWI to some degree - taken a leap of logic.
As if there was anything remotely logical about harnessing the spiritual realm, yet over and over someone attempts to explain it in some sort of scientific terms.
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OldSkool
Here's some quotes from other innies on Dude's FB page. Scrubbed for privacy but check out how they all act as if this is some amazing new revelation. As if the missing link has been found. Sad really. Most of it reads like content for a thank you card to the board of directors. Note: Dude is Way Corps, perhaps some of this is boot polishing? Without further adieu.
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Nottawayfer
It's interesting to see how many think it such new information and it's so wonderful because it backs up what they believe.
I remember a "brainiac" in fellowship explaining to me how a spiritualist could make an ash tray leave one place and show up in another place. He explained that atoms are made up of protons, nutrons, and electrons. There is space in between each of these elements within an atom. The space in the explanation for the suddenly appearing ash tray in another location. However, it didn't explain why you couldn't see it.
Remember when the advanced class talked about psychic surger and how devil spirits influenced it? It was no more than slight of hand. My in-laws traveled to the Phillipines to have it. They are still sick today in their 80s.
Levitation? I dunno how that was aexplained. It's just devil spirits you know.
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JavaJane
All the catchphrases hurt my ears.
Why do they have to try and force science into their belief system? Why do they feel like they have to KNOW so darn much? I mean, just let spirit and God and all that stuff be MYSTERIOUS. It's bigger than any human being, and for humanity to claim they can explain God/spirit is just plain arrogant. And not very fun. I really enjoy feeling like I have to have an explanation for EVERY thing out there. It takes the pressure off and allows me to just observe and sit in awe of how incredible our universe and Creator is. (I'm not speaking about science here or subatomic particles, but specifically trying to scientifically explain the unexplainable.)
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WordWolf
Why?
Because those who lack a relationship with God either seek after signs, or after esoteric knowledge
in an attempt to find what's missing.
(They can feel they're missing SOMETHING, but not WHAT they're missing.)
I Corinthians 1:21-24 (KJV)
21For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
22For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
I Corinthians 1:21-24 (NASB)
21For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.
22For indeed Jews ask for signs and Greeks search for wisdom;
23but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness,
24but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
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JavaJane
WordWolf, that is the best explaination I have heard. Thank you!
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Tzaia
Which would make one wonder if all life is "aware" in the sense that we are aware.
No. But I do think that "spirit" and "soul" are far more intertwined than I once believed.
I believe soul is what gives me life, while spirit is what gives my life meaning.
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WordWolf
Your welcome.
Of course, it's not really MY explanation. ;)
It's been in I Corinthians 1 a long time,
and I heard an excellent teaching the inimitable Ralph D did on it once.
This now was my own phrasing, spin and application,
but the originality is really a matter of STYLE. I didn't originate the SUBSTANCE.
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OldSkool
Ya, same here.
How in the heck do they make the leap of saying this substantiates the law of believing? I mean that's what it really comes back to.
Leap after leap. So much for inductive reasoning, eh?
This really comes back grabbing straws that haven't the slightest connection to the law of believing error and mashing them together and saying "SEE - it's God's Word!"
But, here's the logic leap.
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soul searcher
Maybe it's just semantics, but I think it's the reverse, i.e., all life has a "life-giving spirit" in that it is motivated to reproduce (create more life).
I see "soul" as being more of a "personality" thing that is reflected in the way you live life and the things you create. For example, among musicians, some clearly have more soul than others and it is obvious in their ability to perform a solo. Some are clearly better at it than others. It has nothing to do with their knowledge of music or their proficiency in playing their instrument. It has to do with their ability to use that performance to express themselves.
I think some people lack any soul whatsoever -- most sociopaths, for example.
Of course this is all just my stupid opinion.
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Gen-2
Actually, we're learning quite a bit about this. It turns out that both are right (to some extent), and that more answers simply raise more questions, and that all 'of the answers are yet to be found'. There have actually been a rash of new discoveries in the last year on how they behave. The One hypothesis, that makes the most sense, is one that scientists (including myself) are steering away from. You see,... from what we can tell matter seems to disappear sometimes. Oh gawds the question that one is raising!
The simple answer is that they are not, in fact, disappearing, but they are in three states: Material - in our dimension, energy, and Material - in another dimension. But we don't understand "Other Dimensions" and some simply don't believe in them (realists), even though fractal and string/superstring math supports this. But then again, we used to believe that nothing moves faster than the speed of light (Einstien). Some Bright young (then) Quantum Physicist pointed out that in order to convert matter into energy it has to move at the speed of light squared. Well Einstien was upset at that, using his formula to point out the obvious. He eschewed quantum physics as nonsense.
We are just learning, we'll know more next year. I figured out how to flip a quantum field tis year in a cloud of plasma. that discovery yielded tremendous possibilities in nanotechnology. Naturally, as a research assistant, I won't get credit,... others will. But one day it'll be my turn to publish my findings.
Electrons do a lot of funny things besided the duality they exhibit. It's all fascinating to me. For instance, they travel fast enough to convert into energy.
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OldSkool
And you can't see the law of believing in all of this?????.......j/k......
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JavaJane
Gen, just don't blow up our dimension in the process, ok?
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Steve Lortz
Figuring out "how to flip a quantum field... in a cloud of plasma"!?! I KNOW I'm too old of a dog to do something like THAT! Shoot, I use a can of spray paint to paint my toy soldiers now :-(
I'm glad you're here, Gen-2, and I look forward to reading your findings when they're published. Not that I will particularly understand your formulas... but I have enough math to savor elegance!
Love,
Steve
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Broken Arrow
Upon reading this thread, I have decided to take the advice of Mark Twain when he said, "Better to keep your mouth shut and let everyone think you're a fool then to open it and remove all doubt."
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Ham
Heh..
No. Cows are definitely safe from strange scientific experiments here..
I can remember a half a dozen intense impressions (visions?) when I was young.. all but one seem to have meant something.. I toss the last one out every once in a while in hopes somebody else knows what it is..
The graduation ceremony I was in came fairly close. Except for the decor..
there were taller windows.. but not anywhere near ten meters high.
heh.. it could mean simply nothing at all.. maybe an over active imagination or something.. I could live with that..
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Gen-2
Thanks, I partucularily enjoyed this gem:
The Bank of the Universe
The Bank of the Universe is open and with the universal check, you can visualize the unlimited abundance that is yours for the asking.
Print the check, fill in your name and the amount you wish to receive in your chosen currency, then sign and date it. Place the check in a prominent position where you will see it every day! Every time you look at your check, believe and feel that you have the money now!
http://thesecret.tv/the-secret-check.html
I can "visuaize" a lot of things Buster, and U don't wanna go dere!
"So if you want to have a powerful life, that's more than abundant too, then the movie called The Secret - is the movie for you!"
I must own the Movie, the hat, the T-Shirt and ALL that cool-stuff!!!
No, wait,... maybe that was Spaceballs...
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OldSkool
You're welcome!
It's simple but sad. Go imagine all the things you want and if by chance they happen give us the credit and your money. If they don't happen right away keep up the good work knowing it's coming soon and give us the credit and your money. If it never happens keep on imagining it will and give us the credit and your money. If it doesn't happen and you deny us we will call you the weakest link and paint you as the failure because our principles just work - we will accept your money again once you admit we have been right all along.
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WordWolf
Oh, this is hardly original.
I know I'm not the only person who bought one of those
"MOUNTAINTOP CHECKBOOKS" twi printed and sold.
They were effectively the same thing.
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OldSkool
I didn't buy one but I sure bought the false concept hook, line, and sinker. Only found it didn't work when I really needed it to come through. Of course I was blamed as the weakest link.
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Gen-2
Well when you get your "New Body", maybe you won't be naked.
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waysider
Holy crappoly!
I was thinking the same thing.
The phrasing is so similar it's creepy!
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bliss
"The whole universe responds when we are fully persuaded. Thanks"
Yes, dude, the whole universe responds you YOU!
What EGO this promotes.....oh, wait, we are talking TWI folks, I almost forgot with all the love bombs they throw lately.....
Same error, same atheistic beliefs under the guise of a Godly system, same self-centered, self-indulging attitudes.....just waiting for the next insatiable, lusty, selfish behavior to rear its ugly head....
They even love some of the "preachers'' on TV~ the ones that promote health, wealth and prosperity ONLY!!!
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