Ummm...define "educated". Years ago, when the MOG lived among mortal man, all these "educated" folk simply regurgitated Wierwillian doctrine. (Like that, "Wierwillian? I thought of that myself!) Some even copped his mannerisms. No, people's tendencies are to look back and remember things as being better than they are today and it's usually not really true. Truth? There are no "Good ol' days in TWI. Things never were right.
See, the scales come off in layers. I have been told by so many older staffers and corps folks about how wonderful it all was. I guess delusional experiences leave delusional memories.
See, the scales come off in layers. I have been told by so many older staffers and corps folks about how wonderful it all was. I guess delusional experiences leave delusional memories.
It's like Dorothy when the curtain gets pulled back. Sure, the voice she heard was real. But, once the source of the voice was revealed-------
Well, you can't make yourself believe in Santa Claus again no matter how hard you try.
I have been told by so many older staffers and corps folks about how wonderful it all was.
Saying they believed it was wonderful suggests to me that they don't think it's wonderful now. Why are they still there?
I was "in" during the supposidely "wonderful" years of the 70's and 80's. You know what people talked about then? How wonderful it was back in the early 70's when The Word "really moved".
People say stuff like that to vaunt themselves up before others. Don't believe them.
I've heard a variety of excuses. Some of them literally have no where else to go and no savings to get there. Others, could make the move but feel there is no place else to go that teaches the truth. Obviously there are other reasons. And of course some of think things are just alright the way they are and love it there, even though yesteryear was the best-er-year.
Actually, from what I heard, at the very beginning of the 1970s, there was a small window of opportunity
where things were really great.
That was AFTER vpw hijacked the hippies, which meant that twi now had
the real deal walking around- St3v3 H33fn3r, J1m D00p, and a few others from the House of Acts,
and the people they interacted directly with.
This was DURING the time when H33fn3r and D00p pretty much
began Way East and Way West out of nothing and grew them by preaching Christ.
Thanks for posting this, I had no idea about this time frame. I wouldn't expect VPW to endure too long of a period of people preaching Christ without getting things in hand. After all, the way international is still framed in his own image. A golden statue of Nebuchadnezzar proportions. At least in their own minds.
If I remember correctly, didn't TWI lawyers bring up the required "thank you I'm so blessed" letters in court to show how happy and grateful some of the prosecuting parties were while in TWI. I would think this positive diary that could be subpoenaed, was another CYA technique TWI was using for the corps peoples.
People hide things that are inappropriate, not things that are appropriate. People hide evil works, not good. Good works aren't any thing you have to hide.
People hide things that are inappropriate, not things that are appropriate. People hide evil works, not good. Good works aren't any thing you have to hide.
I can see why you would say that, but it wasn't consciously deceitful. More like trying to "stay positive". So rather than writing about how discouraged I am after being singled out and humiliated in front of my peers, I write about how I am learning humility and godly obedience. I used to write in code in my journal sometimes so only I would understand it. So I could be honest.
There's an intense loneliness in engaging in such inner conflict. The feeling is that there is no one you can truly be open and honest with. Then you can't even be honest with your own journal. It was so intensely discouraging and depressing at times.
I find that I still censor myself to a great degree, that is, withholding the raw honesty of what I really think for fear of offending others or thinking they wouldn't hear anyways. It has been a couple year since leaving the way. This is something I try to break myself of when I see it. But it's a deeply ingrained behavior.
I can see why you would say that, but it wasn't consciously deceitful. More like trying to "stay positive". So rather than writing about how discouraged I am after being singled out and humiliated in front of my peers, I write about how I am learning humility and godly obedience. I used to write in code in my journal sometimes so only I would understand it. So I could be honest.
There's an intense loneliness in engaging in such inner conflict. The feeling is that there is no one you can truly be open and honest with. Then you can't even be honest with your own journal. It was so intensely discouraging and depressing at times.
I find that I still censor myself to a great degree, that is, withholding the raw honesty of what I really think for fear of offending others or thinking they wouldn't hear anyways. It has been a couple year since leaving the way. This is something I try to break myself of when I see it. But it's a deeply ingrained behavior.
shortfuse, I'm not talking about you or any of us that applied a "Pollyanna" mindset and thought we were doing the will of the Lord. I did that too. I am talking about people who knowingly screw over other people and endeavor to ruin their lives and then walk on like they did nothing wrong. And others who promote that. It's the people who humiliate you in front of your peers, then instruct you to write only positives in your journal.
Yes the dichotomy of behaving in the fashion you describe is discouraging. I've done that too. It is psychologically unhealthy. The Bible calls that hypocrisy when it says let your love be without hypocrisy - the mask of the actors, portraying the "positive" face.
This type of thing does deep-seated psychological damage. Some become so detached from reality that they can no longer distinguish real positives from real negatives. Some extreme examples we can see of this are women in an abusive relationship, who act like everything is OK. You can only repress emotions for so long. They will surface, and they will affect your mental and emotional health.
This is why I continually encourage people to leave that type of an environment. Like they teach you on a plane flight with the oxygen mask, save yourself first, then secure the mask around your loved ones.
There's an intense loneliness in engaging in such inner conflict. The feeling is that there is no one you can truly be open and honest with. Then you can't even be honest with your own journal. It was so intensely discouraging and depressing at times.
I find that I still censor myself to a great degree, that is, withholding the raw honesty of what I really think for fear of offending others or thinking they wouldn't hear anyways. It has been a couple year since leaving the way. This is something I try to break myself of when I see it. But it's a deeply ingrained behavior.
Really well put... "intense loneliness in engaging in such inner conflict". That's one reason I left twi the way I did, without giving anyone any real clear reasons. The other half of this equation is that any negatives, if you voiced them, would come back to something wrong with you. I still see this as a form of control, whether intended or not, because if you get to a point where you can't be honest with yourself about negatives thoughts, feelings, and situations then you can't really deal with them and you can't get any answers outside of their simplistic answers.
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chockfull
A GED and a clean pair of overalls?
Well, you know how the movie "Dumb and Dumber" came out in 1994? And then the sequel "Dumb and Dumberer: When Harry Met Lloyd" came out in 2003?
Yeah, kind of like that.
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OldSkool
See, the scales come off in layers. I have been told by so many older staffers and corps folks about how wonderful it all was. I guess delusional experiences leave delusional memories.
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waysider
It's like Dorothy when the curtain gets pulled back. Sure, the voice she heard was real. But, once the source of the voice was revealed-------
Well, you can't make yourself believe in Santa Claus again no matter how hard you try.
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Twinky
Uh, Waysider, Santa Claus was behind the curtain?
Makin' out with the Wizard?
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waysider
You'll understand it when you get all "spurchally growed-up".
But for now, speak in tongues like a house afire. It's spurtchal mashed 'taters.
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Broken Arrow
'PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN!!!
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Broken Arrow
Saying they believed it was wonderful suggests to me that they don't think it's wonderful now. Why are they still there?
I was "in" during the supposidely "wonderful" years of the 70's and 80's. You know what people talked about then? How wonderful it was back in the early 70's when The Word "really moved".
People say stuff like that to vaunt themselves up before others. Don't believe them.
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WordWolf
Actually, from what I heard, at the very beginning of the 1970s, there was a small window of opportunity
where things were really great.
That was AFTER vpw hijacked the hippies, which meant that twi now had
the real deal walking around- St3v3 H33fn3r, J1m D00p, and a few others from the House of Acts,
and the people they interacted directly with.
This was DURING the time when H33fn3r and D00p pretty much
began Way East and Way West out of nothing and grew them by preaching Christ.
This was BEFORE vpw decided East and West had grown enough, fired the guys who were responsible from
being in charge of both, and consolidated both of them under his own grip.
It was a very short timeframe in twi, but it was very influential in twi's history, and most of the
membership growth of later years can be traced to it. (You can play "6 degrees of separation" with
a lot of later twi'ers and get back to people who joined back then and learned personally from
H33fn3r and D00p.)
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OldSkool
I've heard a variety of excuses. Some of them literally have no where else to go and no savings to get there. Others, could make the move but feel there is no place else to go that teaches the truth. Obviously there are other reasons. And of course some of think things are just alright the way they are and love it there, even though yesteryear was the best-er-year.
Thanks for posting this, I had no idea about this time frame. I wouldn't expect VPW to endure too long of a period of people preaching Christ without getting things in hand. After all, the way international is still framed in his own image. A golden statue of Nebuchadnezzar proportions. At least in their own minds.
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lindyhopper
Bringing this back up to the original topic....
If I remember correctly, didn't TWI lawyers bring up the required "thank you I'm so blessed" letters in court to show how happy and grateful some of the prosecuting parties were while in TWI. I would think this positive diary that could be subpoenaed, was another CYA technique TWI was using for the corps peoples.
Is my memory correct on that one?
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excathedra
WTF ? censoring ?
how about "from birth to the corps" paper
no censoring there eh?
so the old man could get off
and peruse his next vicstims
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chockfull
Censoring = dishonesty.
People hide things that are inappropriate, not things that are appropriate. People hide evil works, not good. Good works aren't any thing you have to hide.
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shortfuse
I can see why you would say that, but it wasn't consciously deceitful. More like trying to "stay positive". So rather than writing about how discouraged I am after being singled out and humiliated in front of my peers, I write about how I am learning humility and godly obedience. I used to write in code in my journal sometimes so only I would understand it. So I could be honest.
There's an intense loneliness in engaging in such inner conflict. The feeling is that there is no one you can truly be open and honest with. Then you can't even be honest with your own journal. It was so intensely discouraging and depressing at times.
I find that I still censor myself to a great degree, that is, withholding the raw honesty of what I really think for fear of offending others or thinking they wouldn't hear anyways. It has been a couple year since leaving the way. This is something I try to break myself of when I see it. But it's a deeply ingrained behavior.
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waysider
I think I can really identify with everything you said.
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chockfull
shortfuse, I'm not talking about you or any of us that applied a "Pollyanna" mindset and thought we were doing the will of the Lord. I did that too. I am talking about people who knowingly screw over other people and endeavor to ruin their lives and then walk on like they did nothing wrong. And others who promote that. It's the people who humiliate you in front of your peers, then instruct you to write only positives in your journal.
Yes the dichotomy of behaving in the fashion you describe is discouraging. I've done that too. It is psychologically unhealthy. The Bible calls that hypocrisy when it says let your love be without hypocrisy - the mask of the actors, portraying the "positive" face.
This type of thing does deep-seated psychological damage. Some become so detached from reality that they can no longer distinguish real positives from real negatives. Some extreme examples we can see of this are women in an abusive relationship, who act like everything is OK. You can only repress emotions for so long. They will surface, and they will affect your mental and emotional health.
This is why I continually encourage people to leave that type of an environment. Like they teach you on a plane flight with the oxygen mask, save yourself first, then secure the mask around your loved ones.
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lindyhopper
Really well put... "intense loneliness in engaging in such inner conflict". That's one reason I left twi the way I did, without giving anyone any real clear reasons. The other half of this equation is that any negatives, if you voiced them, would come back to something wrong with you. I still see this as a form of control, whether intended or not, because if you get to a point where you can't be honest with yourself about negatives thoughts, feelings, and situations then you can't really deal with them and you can't get any answers outside of their simplistic answers.
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