"You are vulnerable to spiritual apathy when you love the study of the doctrine more than the Christ of the doctrine."
I thought to myself, isn't that what I ended up. Completely apathetic to any and all things that truly mattered in life. Loving the bible and the ability to "study" (which may be debatable), more than the actual God or Christ I was claiming to have some great spiritual knowledge of.
100% agreed... Only, it took a couple years after leaving to really see how much that apathy had taken over my thoughts.. And I have no doubt, there is still some lingering within.. It wasn't until I read a quote from Jimmy Carter's now old biography concerning his view of Christian Fundamentalism that really got me thinking about how rampant this apathy runs all in the name of "spiritual warfare" and the fight for "spiritual" correctness.
Well, the way has the "study to show thyself approved" doctrine wrong. It places an unnecessary importance on being "book heads." Spodazo means to exert a diligent effort.
One could then say "Do your best to show yourself approved to God." This to me is a much broader scope of living the bible and keeping the weightier matters of grace, mercy, justice, and truth in perspective.
I don't think Wierwille wanted us to have a "a much broader scope of living the bible and keeping the weightier matters of grace, mercy, justice, and truth in perspective" Oldskool!
IMO it turned to more of a mindless retemorie academy so as to not interfere w/ his sport. <_<
Always good to keep enough genuine folks around to keep selling the class though.
Apathetic in everything except bringing in the dosh.
No outreach. No helping others. No development of compassion, kindness.
No looking at the lifestyle of Jesus, or study of the gospels.
Lots of study of the epistles, where many many times Paul exhorts fellowships to "be followers of me" - though TWI was somewhat forgetting the next phrase:
Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
And so we were to follow our leaders at TWI, follow 'em right off the cliff.
But they forgot this, and encouraged us to do likewise:
6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
8 Bewarelest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
That and the "busy work" to no particular purpose distracted followers from what (who) it's all about.
You only have to see the falling numbers at HQ to see how spiritually apathetic they are. Yet for those who genuinely want to reach out, to help others, to be followers of Christ...the harvest is still plenteous.
"You are vulnerable to spiritual apathy when you love the study of the doctrine more than the Christ of the doctrine."
I thought to myself, isn't that what I ended up. Completely apathetic to any and all things that truly mattered in life. Loving the bible and the ability to "study" (which may be debatable), more than the actual God or Christ I was claiming to have some great spiritual knowledge of.
WOW.... reading this one this morning was kinda like a slap upside the head. Hadn't thought about it this way before. The Way completely obliterated any real love (as shown by action) for anything other than the doctrine. "He magnified His Word above His Name" was made into "The Word, the Word, and nothing but the Word." They turned a genuine love of God and his people into a love of constant learning, of putting that learning and knowledge ABOVE any actual love that inspired action to care for others.
100% agreed... Only, it took a couple years after leaving to really see how much that apathy had taken over my thoughts.. And I have no doubt, there is still some lingering within.. It wasn't until I read a quote from Jimmy Carter's now old biography concerning his view of Christian Fundamentalism that really got me thinking about how rampant this apathy runs all in the name of "spiritual warfare" and the fight for "spiritual" correctness.
TnO
I have really grown to hate the quibbling over this and that doctrine and religion since I have left twi. I don't care what religion anyone else is, or whatever religion they aren't. I know agnostics and atheists and Muslims and pagans that live a more "Christian" lifestyle than some people in twi and other fundamentalist Christian groups. They show more love and care for God and humanity than those who are just there to condemn and be superior to others.
Well, the way has the "study to show thyself approved" doctrine wrong. It places an unnecessary importance on being "book heads." Spodazo means to exert a diligent effort.
One could then say "Do your best to show yourself approved to God." This to me is a much broader scope of living the bible and keeping the weightier matters of grace, mercy, justice, and truth in perspective.
Amen and Amen to that!
IMO it turned to more of a mindless retemorie academy so as to not interfere w/ his sport.
Always good to keep enough genuine folks around to keep selling the class though.
Yup, people like us... selling the class for them... all the while VP was boozing and whoring and taking our money, using us and throwing us away. Hungry for power, prestige, and worship.
No outreach. No helping others. No development of compassion, kindness.
No looking at the lifestyle of Jesus, or study of the gospels.
That and the "busy work" to no particular purpose distracted followers from what (who) it's all about.
You only have to see the falling numbers at HQ to see how spiritually apathetic they are. Yet for those who genuinely want to reach out, to help others, to be followers of Christ...the harvest is still plenteous.
They are finally starting to reap what they sow... The money is there, but the people are not.
I think one of my first moments of clarity about twi doctrine was the realization that I hadn't learned all that much about Jesus in twi - but I sure knew a lot about Paul. Not that Paul is bad, but the focus wasn't right. By putting the focus on the epistles and the works of Paul, you put your focus away from Jesus Christ and put it on how ONE MAN (not the Son of God, but a regular man like VP or LCM)... and the one man is much more easily replaced by a MOGFODAT than Jesus Chris would be.
Luke 11:39-46 (The Message)
But the Master said unto him, "I know you Pharisees burnish the surface of your cups and plates so they sparkle in the sun, but I also know your insides are maggoty with greed and secret evil. Stupid Pharisees! Didn't the one who made the outside also make the inside? Turn both your pockets and your hearts inside out and give generously to the poor, then your lives will be clean, not just your dishes and your hands. I've had it with you! You're hopeless, you Pharisees! Frauds! You keep meticulous account books, tithing on every nickel and dime you get, but manage to find loopholes for getting around basic matters of justice and God's love. Careful bookkeeping is commendable, but the basics are required. You're hopeless, you Pharisees! Frauds! You love sitting at the head table at church dinners, love preening yourselves in the radiance of public flattery. Frauds! You're just like unmarked graves: People walk over that nice, grassy surface, never suspecting the rot and corruption that is six feet under."
One of the religious scholars spoke up: "Teacher, do you realize that in saying these things you're insulting us?"
He said, "Yes, and I can be even more explicit. You're hopeless, you religious scholars! You load people down with rules and regulations, nearly breaking their backs, but never lift even a finger to help."
Good point on the "busy work"... we spent so much time washing the outside of the cup we never bothered to look on the inside.
It was all smoke and mirrors, slieght of hand and distraction - then we were too far into the maze to even know we had been trapped.
After leaving TWI for quite a while I wanted to really understand 2 Timothy 2:15. After working it for several weeks along with the all of the words used. I came up with this basic understand. Rightly dividing the word of truth, mean understanding the God's heart.
In other words, it is not important that we know when, and with who Christ died, but why? When we lose the love behind the word of God...we have lost God.
The red thread, first taught by Oral Roberts in a sermon entitled "The 4th Man" about the angel appearing in the fire with Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego.
There used to be a footnote reference to the source in the Adv. Class - at least they used to actually play the tape of that sermon. Then it migrated to the Foundational Class, with all footnotes or the source deleted.
Plagiarize, then assimilate. Then eventually everyone will think they came up with it.
The red thread, first taught by Oral Roberts in a sermon entitled "The 4th Man" about the angel appearing in the fire with Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego.
There used to be a footnote reference to the source in the Adv. Class - at least they used to actually play the tape of that sermon. Then it migrated to the Foundational Class, with all footnotes or the source deleted.
Plagiarize, then assimilate. Then eventually everyone will think they came up with it.
The red thread, first taught by Oral Roberts in a sermon entitled "The 4th Man" about the angel appearing in the fire with Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego.
. . .
hmm, Sounds "trinitarian" . . . the jesus idea makes less and less sense when trying to place him in wayfer "doctrine".
So then, wouldn't it make some sense that Way International obsession with credit and all the glory is a base perversion of a healthy regard for Christ that leads not just to apathy, but also envy?
hmm, Sounds "trinitarian" . . . the jesus idea makes less and less sense when trying to place him in wayfer "doctrine".
Yeah (sarcastically),... let's get rid of that Jesus Guy, he's unecessarrily going to steal our glory and give people "ideas" about loving one another and how he's Lord and stuff,.... yanno?
JavaJane,... meet me at the silkscreen machine at sunset... (lol)
And after all that teaching in PFAL about apeitheia and apisteia, too!
Only that would be the "study of the doctrine," wouldn't it?!
In PFAL: Wierwille writes that apistia is the kind of unbelief held by people who don't know enough to believe, while apeitheia is the kind of unbelief held by people who've heard enough, but don't care.
In truth: the word "apistia" is used of the disciples after the resurrection (Mark 16:14) and of Israel (Romans 3: 1-3). Neither can be said to have not heard enough to believe.
Discussion: It's interesting to note that newer Bible translations render apeitheia as "disobedience," not merely "unbelief."
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Twinky
Who said that?
Was it a Wayfer, on Christian radio, at some church you go to?
If a Wayfer - probably needs to remove the mote from his own eye.
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TrustAndObey
100% agreed... Only, it took a couple years after leaving to really see how much that apathy had taken over my thoughts.. And I have no doubt, there is still some lingering within.. It wasn't until I read a quote from Jimmy Carter's now old biography concerning his view of Christian Fundamentalism that really got me thinking about how rampant this apathy runs all in the name of "spiritual warfare" and the fight for "spiritual" correctness.
TnO
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Hairgirl
Just Christian radio. Thought that perhaps this something else the way was missing.
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OldSkool
Well, the way has the "study to show thyself approved" doctrine wrong. It places an unnecessary importance on being "book heads." Spodazo means to exert a diligent effort.
One could then say "Do your best to show yourself approved to God." This to me is a much broader scope of living the bible and keeping the weightier matters of grace, mercy, justice, and truth in perspective.
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JeffSjo
I don't think Wierwille wanted us to have a "a much broader scope of living the bible and keeping the weightier matters of grace, mercy, justice, and truth in perspective" Oldskool!
IMO it turned to more of a mindless retemorie academy so as to not interfere w/ his sport. <_<
Always good to keep enough genuine folks around to keep selling the class though.
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Twinky
Apathetic in everything except bringing in the dosh.
No outreach. No helping others. No development of compassion, kindness.
No looking at the lifestyle of Jesus, or study of the gospels.
Lots of study of the epistles, where many many times Paul exhorts fellowships to "be followers of me" - though TWI was somewhat forgetting the next phrase:
And so we were to follow our leaders at TWI, follow 'em right off the cliff.
But they forgot this, and encouraged us to do likewise:
That and the "busy work" to no particular purpose distracted followers from what (who) it's all about.
You only have to see the falling numbers at HQ to see how spiritually apathetic they are. Yet for those who genuinely want to reach out, to help others, to be followers of Christ...the harvest is still plenteous.
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JavaJane
WOW.... reading this one this morning was kinda like a slap upside the head. Hadn't thought about it this way before. The Way completely obliterated any real love (as shown by action) for anything other than the doctrine. "He magnified His Word above His Name" was made into "The Word, the Word, and nothing but the Word." They turned a genuine love of God and his people into a love of constant learning, of putting that learning and knowledge ABOVE any actual love that inspired action to care for others.
I have really grown to hate the quibbling over this and that doctrine and religion since I have left twi. I don't care what religion anyone else is, or whatever religion they aren't. I know agnostics and atheists and Muslims and pagans that live a more "Christian" lifestyle than some people in twi and other fundamentalist Christian groups. They show more love and care for God and humanity than those who are just there to condemn and be superior to others.
Amen and Amen to that!
Yup, people like us... selling the class for them... all the while VP was boozing and whoring and taking our money, using us and throwing us away. Hungry for power, prestige, and worship.
They are finally starting to reap what they sow... The money is there, but the people are not.
I think one of my first moments of clarity about twi doctrine was the realization that I hadn't learned all that much about Jesus in twi - but I sure knew a lot about Paul. Not that Paul is bad, but the focus wasn't right. By putting the focus on the epistles and the works of Paul, you put your focus away from Jesus Christ and put it on how ONE MAN (not the Son of God, but a regular man like VP or LCM)... and the one man is much more easily replaced by a MOGFODAT than Jesus Chris would be.
Luke 11:39-46 (The Message)
But the Master said unto him, "I know you Pharisees burnish the surface of your cups and plates so they sparkle in the sun, but I also know your insides are maggoty with greed and secret evil. Stupid Pharisees! Didn't the one who made the outside also make the inside? Turn both your pockets and your hearts inside out and give generously to the poor, then your lives will be clean, not just your dishes and your hands. I've had it with you! You're hopeless, you Pharisees! Frauds! You keep meticulous account books, tithing on every nickel and dime you get, but manage to find loopholes for getting around basic matters of justice and God's love. Careful bookkeeping is commendable, but the basics are required. You're hopeless, you Pharisees! Frauds! You love sitting at the head table at church dinners, love preening yourselves in the radiance of public flattery. Frauds! You're just like unmarked graves: People walk over that nice, grassy surface, never suspecting the rot and corruption that is six feet under."
One of the religious scholars spoke up: "Teacher, do you realize that in saying these things you're insulting us?"
He said, "Yes, and I can be even more explicit. You're hopeless, you religious scholars! You load people down with rules and regulations, nearly breaking their backs, but never lift even a finger to help."
Good point on the "busy work"... we spent so much time washing the outside of the cup we never bothered to look on the inside.
It was all smoke and mirrors, slieght of hand and distraction - then we were too far into the maze to even know we had been trapped.
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Keith
After leaving TWI for quite a while I wanted to really understand 2 Timothy 2:15. After working it for several weeks along with the all of the words used. I came up with this basic understand. Rightly dividing the word of truth, mean understanding the God's heart.
In other words, it is not important that we know when, and with who Christ died, but why? When we lose the love behind the word of God...we have lost God.
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Gen-2
In Genesis he is the promised seed of the woman.
In Exodus he is the Passover lamb.
In Leviticus he is the High Priest.
In Numbers he is the star to rise out of Jacob.
In Deuteronomy he is the two laws: Love God and love your neighbor.
In Joshua he is the captain of the Lord of Hosts.
In Judges he is the covenant angel named Wonderful.
In Ruth he is the kinsman redeemer. Ruth
In Samuel he is the root and offspring of David.
In Kings he is the greater than the Temple.
In Chronicles he is the King's son.
In Ezra-Nehemiah he is the rebuilder.
In Esther he is the savior of God's people.
In Job he is the daysman.
In Psalms he is the song.
In Proverbs he is the wisdom of God.
In Ecclesiastes he is the one among a thousand.
In The Song of Solomon he is the bridegroom of the bride.
In Isaiah he is Jacob's branch.
In Jeremiah he is our righteousness.
In Lamentations he is the unbelievers' judgement.
In Ezekiel he is the true shepherd.
In Daniel he is the stone that became the head of the corner.
In Hosea he is the latter rain.
In Joel he is God's dwelling in Zion.
In Amos he is the raiser of David's tabernacle.
In Obadiah he is the deliverer on Mount Zion.
In Jonah he is our salvation.
In Micah he is the Lord of kings.
In Nahum he is the stronghold in the time of trouble.
In Habakkuk he is our joy and confidence.
In Zephaniah he is our mighty Lord.
In Haggai he is the desire of the nations.
In Zechariah he is our servant The Branch.
In Malachi he is the son of Righteousness.
This is the go-thrum, the red thread. You find him everywhere throughout the Word.
In Matthew he is Jehovah's Messiah.
In Mark he is Jehovah's servant.
In Luke he is Jehovah's man.
And in John he is Jehovah's Son.
In Acts he is the gift of holy spirit.
In Romans he is the believers' justification.
In Corinthians he is the believers' sanctification.
In Galatians he is the believers' righteousness.
In Ephesians he is the believers' heavenly standing.
In Philippians he is the believers' self-adequacy.
And in Colossians he is the believers' completeness.
And in Thessalonians he is the believers' soon-glorification.
In Timothy he is the faithful men.
In Titus he is the fellowlaborer.
In Philemon he is the love of a believer.
In Hebrews he is the High Priest for sin.
In James he is the royal law.
In Peter he is the pastor.
In John he is as we are.
In Jude he is the beloved.
And in Revelation he is the King of kings and the Lord of lords.
And in the Way Ministry, he was the delivery Boy of all things From God to you and Vice Versa. But not much more.
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chockfull
The red thread, first taught by Oral Roberts in a sermon entitled "The 4th Man" about the angel appearing in the fire with Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego.
There used to be a footnote reference to the source in the Adv. Class - at least they used to actually play the tape of that sermon. Then it migrated to the Foundational Class, with all footnotes or the source deleted.
Plagiarize, then assimilate. Then eventually everyone will think they came up with it.
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JavaJane
and then sell it on t-shirts... Remember the red-thread t-shirts? Supposed to be a great witnessing tool!
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OldSkool
Here ya go.
http://www.earstohear.net/Kingdom/fourthman.html
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Bolshevik
hmm, Sounds "trinitarian" . . . the jesus idea makes less and less sense when trying to place him in wayfer "doctrine".
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JeffSjo
So then, wouldn't it make some sense that Way International obsession with credit and all the glory is a base perversion of a healthy regard for Christ that leads not just to apathy, but also envy?
Edited by JeffSjoLink to comment
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Gen-2
Yeah (sarcastically),... let's get rid of that Jesus Guy, he's unecessarrily going to steal our glory and give people "ideas" about loving one another and how he's Lord and stuff,.... yanno?
JavaJane,... meet me at the silkscreen machine at sunset... (lol)
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JavaJane
HAHA! Oh, the tshirt slogans we could come up with!! BWAHAHAHA!
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Broken Arrow
I'd say something about apathy, but I could care a less really.
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Twinky
And after all that teaching in PFAL about apeitheia and apisteia, too!
Only that would be the "study of the doctrine," wouldn't it?!
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waysider
In PFAL: Wierwille writes that apistia is the kind of unbelief held by people who don't know enough to believe, while apeitheia is the kind of unbelief held by people who've heard enough, but don't care.
In truth: the word "apistia" is used of the disciples after the resurrection (Mark 16:14) and of Israel (Romans 3: 1-3). Neither can be said to have not heard enough to believe.
Discussion: It's interesting to note that newer Bible translations render apeitheia as "disobedience," not merely "unbelief."
Source: http://www.greasespotcafe.com/main2/editorial/editorial-items/actual-errors-in-power-for-abundant-living.html
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