They probably pretty much know all the "regulars" I mean, what else do they have to do? It's not like anyon'e trying to infiltrate and heckle them in the auditorium during a SNS anyways - or shoot the ladies of the Way etc.... or swarm the stage to touch their favorite celebrity.
No, everyone was not asked, at least not in my experiences. The Forehead started teaching in the late 90s that we were looking for the devout. This term, taken from Acts, was said to indicate people who mostly had their stuff together. Devout being that they had a heart for God and discipline firmly established in life but were misdirected according to religious doctrines. I have never hear this teaching refuted since. Also, during way disciple, we were basically instructed to avoid people who would waste our time, and out time was oh so precious. We were out there finding those that want to know. Again, in my experiences, those that want to know are the ones who when presented with the way internationals cultish teachings get starry eyed and start chanting (with wallet extended) "take me to your leader." I think in my jest you will get the gist.
I just don't get the feeling that too many people actively sought out TWI as their choice in church, more that TWI targeted people. Is that feeling correct? Were there things people were taught to look for, or was it just a blanket thing where everyone was asked?
Interesting question. I can tell you that circa 1983 at least one young woman who sought God's word joined TWI's ranks. She was recruited by a(nother) (very attractive) co-worker who was already in.
She told me at the time that she was born again. But I don't recall if she was born again before she took the PFAL class or during it.
The overriding theme from one of the other threads is that apparently TWI does not welcome "seekers" to its SNS. You have to be a standing established follower.
I just don't get the feeling that too many people actively sought out TWI as their choice in church, more that TWI targeted people. Is that feeling correct? Were there things people were taught to look for, or was it just a blanket thing where everyone was asked?
In River Road Fellowship things got to the point a long, long time ago that only the top dog (insane as he was in retrospect) could qualify new folks. An overall feeling of paranoia and guilty conscience and who knows how many other problems already had him acting like those of us who thought for ourselves were enemies.
I think the prospect of anybody not completely in their control is frightening to them!
Were there things people were taught to look for, or was it just a blanket thing where everyone was asked?
Trophy mentality
"Wouldn't it be great if (insert name of famous actor/singer/sports star/politician, etc.) took the class? Then people would be clamoring to sign the green card."
It's really no different than an old, tried & true sales technique from the days of door-to-door salesmen. ("You know, Mrs. Jones, your neighbor, Mr. Smith, bought two of these just yesterday.")
It all boils down to "Ask not what twi can do for you (or anyone else) but what you (or the person you are witnessing to) can do for twi"... They didn't want to actually help anybody, and this basically proves it. They wanted people who were working decent jobs so the ABS would be big... People they could browbeat about being in debt... Not people they would have to invest any real time or effort in to actually help.
...They didn't want to actually help anybody, ... They wanted people who were working decent jobs so the ABS would be big... Not people they would have to invest any real time or effort in to actually help.
"Not people they would have to invest any real time or effort in to actually help."
They wanted people that already had an Abundant life. Poor people that need God's Help, are poor, after all and don't either contribute well enough or reflect well enough on the ministry. Poorer people have car payments (Those that can't afford a new one outright)... They're on a tight budget they can't spare 10-25% More for da Way, weekly. Let the other religions reach out to those people. Don't waste your time with them.
Rather, lets help those who don't need help but can be steered into giving to soothe their consciences and make them believe that they themselves are now Godly for having done so, Indulgances anyone?
Rather, lets help those who don't need help but can be steered into giving to soothe their consciences and make them believe that they themselves are now Godly for having done so, Indulgances anyone?
I think that's a good summation.. The more I hear about what they taught concerning the tithe (honestly, it must have gone in one ear and out the other while I was in...), but it sounds more and more like the RC church after all.. Paying so God will spit in your direction. Did I really drink that?!
I remember they always elevated Matthew 26:11a "The poor you will always have with you," as a reason to ignore 'em since they will always be around. They kindly ignored the context and latter part of the verse, "... but you will not always have me[Jesus].!"
The things that I might speculate about based on my ex's loyalties and Barnard's reported habits in River Road Fellowship I refuse to do for the sake of my son who might read this someday, or be told about because of certain manipulators and the like.
But that does not negate the feelings of betrayal and foolishness on my part, sometimes more than others.
I think that for many people; especially those that just want to love an unseen God perhaps; there can be a tendency of taking people at their word. And in case of The Way International it seems obvious that some people were willing to replace a normal and healthy conscience with the party line, others were surely devoid of a healthy conscience from the beginning.
I ignored signs of trouble in the group and in my marriage only to be sold out by people (of whom I have no doubt anymore) more wicked than anyone else I have actually met.
How the heck is anybody who is prone to be trusting and honest not likely to be fooled by folks like these?
I kind of wonder how those that knew of the wickedness but did nothing will fare someday, y'know!?
How the heck is anybody who is prone to be trusting and honest not likely to be fooled by folks like these?
Be wary as a snake, Jeff (see my tag line).
John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Acts 17:11 These [bereans] were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
1 Thess 5:21 Prove [test, check out] all things; hold fast that which is good.
(Readiness of mind alone is not enough to keep you safe. You risk being blown around with every wind of doctrine - false doctrine - which, as you already know, means trouble ahead.)
John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Acts 17:11 These [bereans] were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
1 Thess 5:21 Prove [test, check out] all things; hold fast that which is good.
(Readiness of mind alone is not enough to keep you safe. You risk being blown around with every wind of doctrine - false doctrine - which, as you already know, means trouble ahead.)
I think for ministers, and everybody else in general it is far easier to examine others rather than themselves.
And it is far easier to wield that sword than to endure it when it is directed at oneself.
I do believe that if folks don't take heed when it is directed at them justly, it will only grow progressively worse for them from that point on unless they turn.
I despise most those manipulators who deliberately use these sentiments just to beat people into some oppressed form of obedience. I believe divine justice turns them into the thing they thought to accuse others of, or worse.
(edited to change "head" to "heed" hehehe Oh, and I added the last sentence)
I think for ministers, and everybody else in general it is far easier to examine others rather than themselves. And it is far easier to wield that sword than to endure it when it is directed at oneself. I do believe that if folks don't take head when it is directed at them justly, it will only grow progressively worse for them from that point on unless they turn.
(edited to change "head" to "heed" hehehe Oh, and I added the last sentence)
Well mister,... I changed it back ^^^^^ just to show you what an amazing comment it might have looked like uncorrected.
Now see how easy it is to look after your own words and thoughts?
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Gen-2
They probably pretty much know all the "regulars" I mean, what else do they have to do? It's not like anyon'e trying to infiltrate and heckle them in the auditorium during a SNS anyways - or shoot the ladies of the Way etc.... or swarm the stage to touch their favorite celebrity.
or fight over the front row seats
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OldSkool
No, everyone was not asked, at least not in my experiences. The Forehead started teaching in the late 90s that we were looking for the devout. This term, taken from Acts, was said to indicate people who mostly had their stuff together. Devout being that they had a heart for God and discipline firmly established in life but were misdirected according to religious doctrines. I have never hear this teaching refuted since. Also, during way disciple, we were basically instructed to avoid people who would waste our time, and out time was oh so precious.
We were out there finding those that want to know. Again, in my experiences, those that want to know are the ones who when presented with the way internationals cultish teachings get starry eyed and start chanting (with wallet extended) "take me to your leader." I think in my jest you will get the gist.
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soul searcher
Interesting question. I can tell you that circa 1983 at least one young woman who sought God's word joined TWI's ranks. She was recruited by a(nother) (very attractive) co-worker who was already in.
She told me at the time that she was born again. But I don't recall if she was born again before she took the PFAL class or during it.
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JeffSjo
In River Road Fellowship things got to the point a long, long time ago that only the top dog (insane as he was in retrospect) could qualify new folks. An overall feeling of paranoia and guilty conscience and who knows how many other problems already had him acting like those of us who thought for ourselves were enemies.
I think the prospect of anybody not completely in their control is frightening to them!
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waysider
Trophy mentality
"Wouldn't it be great if (insert name of famous actor/singer/sports star/politician, etc.) took the class? Then people would be clamoring to sign the green card."
It's really no different than an old, tried & true sales technique from the days of door-to-door salesmen. ("You know, Mrs. Jones, your neighbor, Mr. Smith, bought two of these just yesterday.")
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JavaJane
It all boils down to "Ask not what twi can do for you (or anyone else) but what you (or the person you are witnessing to) can do for twi"... They didn't want to actually help anybody, and this basically proves it. They wanted people who were working decent jobs so the ABS would be big... People they could browbeat about being in debt... Not people they would have to invest any real time or effort in to actually help.
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Gen-2
"Not people they would have to invest any real time or effort in to actually help."
They wanted people that already had an Abundant life. Poor people that need God's Help, are poor, after all and don't either contribute well enough or reflect well enough on the ministry. Poorer people have car payments (Those that can't afford a new one outright)... They're on a tight budget they can't spare 10-25% More for da Way, weekly. Let the other religions reach out to those people. Don't waste your time with them.
Rather, lets help those who don't need help but can be steered into giving to soothe their consciences and make them believe that they themselves are now Godly for having done so, Indulgances anyone?
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TrustAndObey
I think that's a good summation.. The more I hear about what they taught concerning the tithe (honestly, it must have gone in one ear and out the other while I was in...), but it sounds more and more like the RC church after all.. Paying so God will spit in your direction. Did I really drink that?!
I remember they always elevated Matthew 26:11a "The poor you will always have with you," as a reason to ignore 'em since they will always be around. They kindly ignored the context and latter part of the verse, "... but you will not always have me[Jesus].!"
Yeah, I admit, I was quite the idiot!
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OldSkool
Yep. Same here. That startling realization that I had believed the lies was very humbling.
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JeffSjo
For me it seems somewhat humbling too.
The things that I might speculate about based on my ex's loyalties and Barnard's reported habits in River Road Fellowship I refuse to do for the sake of my son who might read this someday, or be told about because of certain manipulators and the like.
But that does not negate the feelings of betrayal and foolishness on my part, sometimes more than others.
I think that for many people; especially those that just want to love an unseen God perhaps; there can be a tendency of taking people at their word. And in case of The Way International it seems obvious that some people were willing to replace a normal and healthy conscience with the party line, others were surely devoid of a healthy conscience from the beginning.
I ignored signs of trouble in the group and in my marriage only to be sold out by people (of whom I have no doubt anymore) more wicked than anyone else I have actually met.
How the heck is anybody who is prone to be trusting and honest not likely to be fooled by folks like these?
I kind of wonder how those that knew of the wickedness but did nothing will fare someday, y'know!?
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Twinky
Be wary as a snake, Jeff (see my tag line).
John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Acts 17:11 These [bereans] were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
1 Thess 5:21 Prove [test, check out] all things; hold fast that which is good.
(Readiness of mind alone is not enough to keep you safe. You risk being blown around with every wind of doctrine - false doctrine - which, as you already know, means trouble ahead.)
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Gen-2
Indeed...!
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JeffSjo
I think for ministers, and everybody else in general it is far easier to examine others rather than themselves.
And it is far easier to wield that sword than to endure it when it is directed at oneself.
I do believe that if folks don't take heed when it is directed at them justly, it will only grow progressively worse for them from that point on unless they turn.
I despise most those manipulators who deliberately use these sentiments just to beat people into some oppressed form of obedience. I believe divine justice turns them into the thing they thought to accuse others of, or worse.
(edited to change "head" to "heed" hehehe Oh, and I added the last sentence)
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Gen-2
Well mister,... I changed it back ^^^^^ just to show you what an amazing comment it might have looked like uncorrected.
Now see how easy it is to look after your own words and thoughts?
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JeffSjo
It IS easy! Until you get your mitts on them.
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