Good points, all. I (speaking for myself only) don't reminisce about the 'good ol'days' with anyone. I didn't like a lot of it. I despised the control and the unsolicited advice from my coordinators. Hated it.
I just said I wasn't aware of how horrific things were. I know now. It must seem crazy to some of you that there were some innocent ostriches involved like me. I just didn't see the really bad stuff that I have learned about since. I totally believe the stories and feel terrible I didn't see it.
I am ashamed I wanted to be like some of the worst of them and used to go to bed at night wondering why I didn't have what it took to be a top leader (never was a top leader).
Okay, I will sign off for good. I shared my piece. Wasn't much but it is about all I have to share. Really sorry for some of you that you had such heartwrenching times. I mean that.
God bless and I pray for your healing (even saying that makes me (shudder) pause hoping those particular words aren't considered offensive or salt in the wound these days).
Why leave? It seems to me that you have lots to share. Hang out and talk to us.
Oh, I understand. When I first started posting I felt I had said enough. That was the trickle. Then I signed on again and left a few more posts. That was the full bore leak. Then I started being overwhelmed with information to post. Sort of like peeling an onion, ya know? Then the damn broke. I hope to see you again Waylaid. Peace out!
So, some Way Corps never heard a single thing about this. Those of you who didn't, consider
that the only form of real compliment vpw ever gave-
he thought you were incapable of being corrupted.
I suppose that you have to consider that there were hundreds of Corps in TWI's heyday. A few of the young ladies I sponsored in the Corps were drop-dead gorgeous. When I asked them about this stuff a few years ago, not only had not one of them ever experienced a proposition or coercion from a TWI leader, only one of them had ever heard about it from another Corps woman. I suspect that most of the guys were equally clueless.
dear waylaid, in my humble opinion, people here do not hate the waycorpse as individuals -- they hate what it represented -- as i do -- and i'm a way corps grad (9th)
i know you said some things were not taught to the masses and i don't disagree
but when i was "in" the program -- veepee did have some sicko things to say to us gals in a "night owl" setting -- i guess he drunk as usual
don't go away
oh, they may hate some waycorpse because they were total d.ic.k heads
What a farking waste of life it all was, REALLY...
I was also corps...and I echo what George says...
Here's the thing...when I used to listen to a bible teaching or I was praying or I was at a "fellowship"...I was thinking about God...not about getting laid. What kind of monsters were running this "ministry" that they were setting themselves up to get laid while pretending to be Christian ministers?
At least when a guy is hitting on you at a bar, there's no pretense...these guys were LYING IN GOD"S NAME!!! Their motivation was to get laid...and that's pretty sick in my estimation.
Here's the thing...when I used to listen to a bible teaching or I was praying or I was at a "fellowship"...I was thinking about God...not about getting laid. What kind of monsters were running this "ministry" that they were setting themselves up to get laid while pretending to be Christian ministers?
At least when a guy is hitting on you at a bar, there's no pretense...these guys were LYING IN GOD"S NAME!!! Their motivation was to get laid...and that's pretty sick in my estimation.
You, Sir, have a way with words.........Every place I lived while involved with The Way, there were people who screwed around. I attributed it to people having a weak moment. When I learned that it was endemic to the organization as a whole...all the way to the top.....I ceased my association immediately. ANYONE who would use their position of authority to influence another to sexually service them is a P.O.S., no matter how caring and generous they may seem to the general public.
1Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come!
2It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
Mark 9:41-42 (King James Version)
41For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.
42And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
Matthew 18:5-7 (King James Version)
5And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.
6But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
7Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!
There were a BUNCH of requirements: All PFAL (Foundational,Intermediate, and Advanced, as well as Advanced Studies required for the Advanced Class); personal history, recommendation from your Limb Coordinator, sponsorship (finances) arranged...
Anyone who was actually in the Corps care to fill in anything I missed?
I'd add my two cents but I was blissfully unaware really of the amount of adulterous encounters with leadership...now there was plenty of premarital sex going on... but there was plenty of sex going on everywhere, not just in TWI... it was the height of disco .... and the majority of people in TWI were in the under 30 age group. my time in 1979-spring of 1983.
But I do know now, after the fact, and long since I left TWI that one of my leaders who was a 6th Corps gal probably was one of VP's conquests... Not from something she told me, but from something my WOW brother told me... that he knew stuff that would Blow my mind and that I was not spiritually mature enought to handle it, that it innvolved threesomes and sex.. when I questioned him about it he said stuff between her(The leadership) and other believers, he intimated sexual stuff but didn't come out and say what it was in so many words. I know she was very close with Weirwille from stuff she had said. And she would go to see him privately when he was in our Region. When I read about it on here I finally put the pieces together and realized what had been going on... and that she had been corupted by VP and was corupting her own TWIG with this stuff. Not us lowleys but who she saw as leadership potential This WOW Brother went on to be in the Corps. As did my WOW family Coordinator who then left Corps after less tahn one year in it.
TO be honest if I had heard what Weirwille actually was doing I would have fled the ministry... I endured sexual abuse through my childhood... so I knew what evil lurks in this kind of sex.
So yeah I obviouslky was not "spiritually mature enough to handle it"(to my mind I was more spiritually mature because i would have seen the evilness of it.)And it saddens me now to think one of my WOW brothers knew of this stuff and thought it was okay.
Most of the Corps people I knew did not have extra marital affairs. and it was not at that time taught to the masses. But it obviously was going on in Weirwilles life for his entire adult years. And in order to make himself feel superior he was teaching it to those surrounding him.
In fact most of what was taught to the "joe believers" was the opposite, it seems to me... when you went WOW you were told to keep your wanger in your pants and girls were not to spread their legs... but to this day I find it interesting that most WOW families were made up of both men and women, two of each.
You can imagine what kind of situations that caused when you have a house full of 20+ year olds together.
I would also like to point out that I was not near head quarters except for Rock of ages.. My time in TWI was spent in Colorado Montana and Idaho.. Far from Head quartes.
I think much of what people knew or didn't know depended on where they lived and who they were around.
In fact most of what was taught to the "joe believers" was the opposite, it seems to me... when you went WOW you were told to keep your wanger in your pants and girls were not to spread their legs...
SNIP
I was thinking the same thing. The irony is part of what makes it so startling.
I was thinking the same thing. The irony is part of what makes it so startling.
Exactly.... I think that is why so many people wanted to deny it... the Irony of it was so stark.
and becasue if Weirwille was doing these evil things what does that mean about their own beliefs and walk.
For me it helped me to recognize some of the niggling questions I had carried around in my head and tried to ignore because obviously I needed to renew my mind...
Now I just think I was a total naive idiot... but hey I was in great company.
So -- let me understand -- you have to be "spiritually mature" to understand a threesome? :biglaugh:
Oh that's a good one!
To paraphrase Willard in the movie "Apocalypse Now": the bull.... was piling up so fast in that place you must have needed wings to stay above it.
Adding a bit of background might help explain this to someone who wasn't exposed to Way doctrine.
In The Way, it was taught that when you achieved a greater level of spiritual maturity, you would understand that, whenever the Bible talks about adultery and whoredom, it's (supposedly) talking about "spiritual" adultery and whoredom. (ie: worshiping false Gods) This is why the trinity was such a big deal. It was considered "spiritual adultery" to believe in the trinity. The idea here is that any given scripture can have multiple layers of meaning. When you are new in The Word, it's taught that you understand a scripture from a carnal point of view. As you mature, it's supposed to take on a deeper, more spiritual meaning. (milk for babes/ meat for the fully grown)
So, to take scripture at face value was something like confessing to being spiritually immature. Not something you would be anxious to do.
edit: this stuff is so twisted and convoluted, it's no wonder it takes so long for some people to flush it down the crapper.
Adding a bit of background might help explain this to someone who wasn't exposed to Way doctrine.
In The Way, it was taught that when you achieved a greater level of spiritual maturity, you would understand that, whenever the Bible talks about adultery and whoredom, it's (supposedly) talking about "spiritual" adultery and whoredom. (ie: worshiping false Gods) This is why the trinity was such a big deal. It was considered "spiritual adultery" to believe in the trinity. The idea here is that any given scripture can have multiple layers of meaning. When you are new in The Word, it's taught that you understand a scripture from a carnal point of view. As you mature, it's supposed to take on a deeper, more spiritual meaning. (milk for babes/ meat for the fully grown)
So, to take scripture at face value was something like confessing to being spiritually immature. Not something you would be anxious to do.
And yet,...
...although there was this deeper spiritual undetone of the Whoredoms (usually of Isreal) the verses were also literally true in the less spiritual sense, and the crass, physical aspect of physical whoredoms was still true and not to be negated by understanding the deeper spiritual wisdom.
[words to that effect]
Do a study on the word Groves in the OT the hebrew word id Asherah or somesuch similar English spelling.
My understanding is that these were usually on hilltops. They were poles of wood or perhaps carved ornate stone (like an obelisk),... phallic symbols. God says (in so many words) that he didn't like them.
Physically, they provided places for debauchery of every kind. Orgiastic partying etc. so there was a physical meaning there. But if you were "spiritual" you'd see the deeper meaning involved. How they were "sticking it to God" off-a-whoring after other gods, and such, as it were. During the time of Solomon and the kings that did worse after him, they built more and more of these groves.
One of the kings was "with it" and saw how Israel had waved their penis at God's nose and had the places all torn down,.... well the physical places anyways, the groves.
Later, the Jews went in (scholars and such) and "softened" those offensive sounding verses. They altered a few words here and there, and covered up the nasty sounding verses,.... sort of like the B.C. P.C. movement >snicker< so that people wouldn't be offended by reading that their own people had waved more than just a "branch" under God's nose.
In our day and time, V.P. and L.C.M. and others didn't erect physical poles on hills (well, not that I know of) and it took Lawsuits to tear down their little party.
How's that for spiritual understanding?
You see,.... the love of money - really is the root of all evil, but they understood when their wallet was attacked, that if they didn't do at least SOME spring cleaning, they'd get cleaned out.
Settling out of court was cheaper. My spiritual understanding shows me there, who the Way's God really is,... ...and they don't teach all of this to their followers... YANNO?!!
How bout you? how's your spiritual understanding on this?
Hahahahahahahahaha!
Wait,.... NO,... it really isn't funny, people were hurt.
On the other hand it sort of is funny outside of that frame of reference.
Wait,.... NO,... it really isn't funny, people were hurt.
On the other hand it sort of is funny outside of that frame of reference.
just funny in a sad way.
Interesting...I get the same bad feeling if I criticize or ridicule Way practices. I can joke along with you guys but I didn't go through any of it, so I feel like an idiot joking about it.
Interesting...I get the same bad feeling if I criticize or ridicule Way practices. I can joke along with you guys but I didn't go through any of it, so I feel like an idiot joking about it.
I hope everyone forgives me.
There is nothing to forgive. You haven't done anything wrong. I just go into too much detail sometimes because I know that not everyone reading understands all the little details. I don't mind you joking about it.
...And so it goes...most of us only heard about this stuff after the fact...but there were many who were victims...and yes, I use the word victims. When someone uses their authority to lord over another person and to take advantage of them sexually, it's not only immoral...but it's also a crime.
Wierwille stole the works of other people to run his "ministry" because he was morally bankrupt. He was incapable of being a genuine Christian minister because he chose the path of lying, laziness, drunkeness and adultry...his true disciples did the same.
The rest of us who still had a sense of decency walked away.
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waysider
Not offended here.
I'm enjoying your posts.
Stick around-----or not.
It's your call.
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soul searcher
Why leave? It seems to me that you have lots to share. Hang out and talk to us.
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OldSkool
Oh, I understand. When I first started posting I felt I had said enough. That was the trickle. Then I signed on again and left a few more posts. That was the full bore leak. Then I started being overwhelmed with information to post. Sort of like peeling an onion, ya know? Then the damn broke. I hope to see you again Waylaid. Peace out!
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GeorgeStGeorge
I suppose that you have to consider that there were hundreds of Corps in TWI's heyday. A few of the young ladies I sponsored in the Corps were drop-dead gorgeous. When I asked them about this stuff a few years ago, not only had not one of them ever experienced a proposition or coercion from a TWI leader, only one of them had ever heard about it from another Corps woman. I suspect that most of the guys were equally clueless.
George
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waysider
I don't think sexual predators seek out the "drop dead gorgeous". They hone their sights in on people that they perceive to be vulnerable.
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excathedra
whatever i've said is the way it was
jesus, i have more posts than anyone here
it's embarrassing and tiresome
who is the new gu y or girl ? glad you're here but still tired
p-f'ing-s
i'm drop dead gorgeous ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha hah
love you waysider
--
don't leave dirty dozen waylaid
love,ex
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excathedra
dear waylaid, in my humble opinion, people here do not hate the waycorpse as individuals -- they hate what it represented -- as i do -- and i'm a way corps grad (9th)
i know you said some things were not taught to the masses and i don't disagree
but when i was "in" the program -- veepee did have some sicko things to say to us gals in a "night owl" setting -- i guess he drunk as usual
don't go away
oh, they may hate some waycorpse because they were total d.ic.k heads
but you can't argue with that :)
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OldSkool
I was corpse. I don't hate anyone. Anything I direct at the way corps is for what it represents and how it is used by the directors.
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GrouchoMarxJr
I was also corps...and I echo what George says...
Here's the thing...when I used to listen to a bible teaching or I was praying or I was at a "fellowship"...I was thinking about God...not about getting laid. What kind of monsters were running this "ministry" that they were setting themselves up to get laid while pretending to be Christian ministers?
At least when a guy is hitting on you at a bar, there's no pretense...these guys were LYING IN GOD"S NAME!!! Their motivation was to get laid...and that's pretty sick in my estimation.
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smarter
You, Sir, have a way with words.........Every place I lived while involved with The Way, there were people who screwed around. I attributed it to people having a weak moment. When I learned that it was endemic to the organization as a whole...all the way to the top.....I ceased my association immediately. ANYONE who would use their position of authority to influence another to sexually service them is a P.O.S., no matter how caring and generous they may seem to the general public.
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WordWolf
Luke 17
1Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come!
2It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
Mark 9:41-42 (King James Version)
41For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.
42And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
Matthew 18:5-7 (King James Version)
5And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.
6But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
7Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!
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Bolshevik
They all took PFAL prior to going Corps? Or did they kinda just brush through it on the path to going Corps back then?
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GeorgeStGeorge
There were a BUNCH of requirements: All PFAL (Foundational,Intermediate, and Advanced, as well as Advanced Studies required for the Advanced Class); personal history, recommendation from your Limb Coordinator, sponsorship (finances) arranged...
Anyone who was actually in the Corps care to fill in anything I missed?
George
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Bolshevik
PFAL was about learning to control the world around you . . . eventually people too . . . the sex stuff is only a natural result.
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leafytwiglet
I'd add my two cents but I was blissfully unaware really of the amount of adulterous encounters with leadership...now there was plenty of premarital sex going on... but there was plenty of sex going on everywhere, not just in TWI... it was the height of disco .... and the majority of people in TWI were in the under 30 age group. my time in 1979-spring of 1983.
But I do know now, after the fact, and long since I left TWI that one of my leaders who was a 6th Corps gal probably was one of VP's conquests... Not from something she told me, but from something my WOW brother told me... that he knew stuff that would Blow my mind and that I was not spiritually mature enought to handle it, that it innvolved threesomes and sex.. when I questioned him about it he said stuff between her(The leadership) and other believers, he intimated sexual stuff but didn't come out and say what it was in so many words. I know she was very close with Weirwille from stuff she had said. And she would go to see him privately when he was in our Region. When I read about it on here I finally put the pieces together and realized what had been going on... and that she had been corupted by VP and was corupting her own TWIG with this stuff. Not us lowleys but who she saw as leadership potential This WOW Brother went on to be in the Corps. As did my WOW family Coordinator who then left Corps after less tahn one year in it.
TO be honest if I had heard what Weirwille actually was doing I would have fled the ministry... I endured sexual abuse through my childhood... so I knew what evil lurks in this kind of sex.
So yeah I obviouslky was not "spiritually mature enough to handle it"(to my mind I was more spiritually mature because i would have seen the evilness of it.)And it saddens me now to think one of my WOW brothers knew of this stuff and thought it was okay.
Most of the Corps people I knew did not have extra marital affairs. and it was not at that time taught to the masses. But it obviously was going on in Weirwilles life for his entire adult years. And in order to make himself feel superior he was teaching it to those surrounding him.
In fact most of what was taught to the "joe believers" was the opposite, it seems to me... when you went WOW you were told to keep your wanger in your pants and girls were not to spread their legs... but to this day I find it interesting that most WOW families were made up of both men and women, two of each.
You can imagine what kind of situations that caused when you have a house full of 20+ year olds together.
I would also like to point out that I was not near head quarters except for Rock of ages.. My time in TWI was spent in Colorado Montana and Idaho.. Far from Head quartes.
I think much of what people knew or didn't know depended on where they lived and who they were around.
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waysider
I was thinking the same thing. The irony is part of what makes it so startling.
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Gen-2
startling -l
starting -t
staring -a
string -r
sting -t
sing -g
sin -s
in -n
I
Okay sorry, I'll go sit in the corner...
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leafytwiglet
Exactly.... I think that is why so many people wanted to deny it... the Irony of it was so stark.
and becasue if Weirwille was doing these evil things what does that mean about their own beliefs and walk.
For me it helped me to recognize some of the niggling questions I had carried around in my head and tried to ignore because obviously I needed to renew my mind...
Now I just think I was a total naive idiot... but hey I was in great company.
at GEN2 Snerk!
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soul searcher
So -- let me understand -- you have to be "spiritually mature" to understand a threesome?
:biglaugh: 
Oh that's a good one!
To paraphrase Willard in the movie "Apocalypse Now": the bull.... was piling up so fast in that place you must have needed wings to stay above it.
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waysider
Adding a bit of background might help explain this to someone who wasn't exposed to Way doctrine.
In The Way, it was taught that when you achieved a greater level of spiritual maturity, you would understand that, whenever the Bible talks about adultery and whoredom, it's (supposedly) talking about "spiritual" adultery and whoredom. (ie: worshiping false Gods) This is why the trinity was such a big deal. It was considered "spiritual adultery" to believe in the trinity. The idea here is that any given scripture can have multiple layers of meaning. When you are new in The Word, it's taught that you understand a scripture from a carnal point of view. As you mature, it's supposed to take on a deeper, more spiritual meaning. (milk for babes/ meat for the fully grown)
So, to take scripture at face value was something like confessing to being spiritually immature. Not something you would be anxious to do.
edit: this stuff is so twisted and convoluted, it's no wonder it takes so long for some people to flush it down the crapper.
Edited by waysiderLink to comment
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Gen-2
And yet,...
...although there was this deeper spiritual undetone of the Whoredoms (usually of Isreal) the verses were also literally true in the less spiritual sense, and the crass, physical aspect of physical whoredoms was still true and not to be negated by understanding the deeper spiritual wisdom.
[words to that effect]
Do a study on the word Groves in the OT the hebrew word id Asherah or somesuch similar English spelling.
My understanding is that these were usually on hilltops. They were poles of wood or perhaps carved ornate stone (like an obelisk),... phallic symbols. God says (in so many words) that he didn't like them.
Physically, they provided places for debauchery of every kind. Orgiastic partying etc. so there was a physical meaning there. But if you were "spiritual" you'd see the deeper meaning involved. How they were "sticking it to God" off-a-whoring after other gods, and such, as it were. During the time of Solomon and the kings that did worse after him, they built more and more of these groves.
One of the kings was "with it" and saw how Israel had waved their penis at God's nose and had the places all torn down,.... well the physical places anyways, the groves.
Later, the Jews went in (scholars and such) and "softened" those offensive sounding verses. They altered a few words here and there, and covered up the nasty sounding verses,.... sort of like the B.C. P.C. movement >snicker< so that people wouldn't be offended by reading that their own people had waved more than just a "branch" under God's nose.
In our day and time, V.P. and L.C.M. and others didn't erect physical poles on hills (well, not that I know of) and it took Lawsuits to tear down their little party.
How's that for spiritual understanding?
You see,.... the love of money - really is the root of all evil, but they understood when their wallet was attacked, that if they didn't do at least SOME spring cleaning, they'd get cleaned out.
Settling out of court was cheaper. My spiritual understanding shows me there, who the Way's God really is,... ...and they don't teach all of this to their followers... YANNO?!!
How bout you? how's your spiritual understanding on this?
Hahahahahahahahaha!
Wait,.... NO,... it really isn't funny, people were hurt.
On the other hand it sort of is funny outside of that frame of reference.
just funny in a sad way.
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soul searcher
Interesting...I get the same bad feeling if I criticize or ridicule Way practices. I can joke along with you guys but I didn't go through any of it, so I feel like an idiot joking about it.
I hope everyone forgives me.
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waysider
There is nothing to forgive. You haven't done anything wrong. I just go into too much detail sometimes because I know that not everyone reading understands all the little details. I don't mind you joking about it.
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GrouchoMarxJr
...And so it goes...most of us only heard about this stuff after the fact...but there were many who were victims...and yes, I use the word victims. When someone uses their authority to lord over another person and to take advantage of them sexually, it's not only immoral...but it's also a crime.
Wierwille stole the works of other people to run his "ministry" because he was morally bankrupt. He was incapable of being a genuine Christian minister because he chose the path of lying, laziness, drunkeness and adultry...his true disciples did the same.
The rest of us who still had a sense of decency walked away.
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